Any Atheist mers out there?

[-Annwyn-]

"Are there any ------ mers out there?" has been asked for lots of topics so I thought I'd ask.

Any mers out there who are godless and proud, like me? :D

[Lucinda]

I'm an atheist. I stopped believing in God when I was 17.

[SummerRogue]

I'm definitely atheist :)

[Talia]

I am not sure how closed or open is your definition of atheist. I can only say "I don't know if there is a god (or many) and I will not be sure until I have had irrefutable scientific proof one way or another. However, I am of the opinion that it is implausible that a creature as it is described by many major religions (Christianism, Islamism...) exists."

I would define myself as "godless".

[Mermaid Galene]

I consider my self an agnostic pantheist. Agnosticism's philosophy is that, if there is an all powerful deity who oversees all life on this planet, his/her/its presence is unverifiable by any rational measure. Therefore, the presence or absence of such a diety is irrelevant to human action, and we should proceed as if what happens in our lives is up to us rather than to an external force. Pantheism recognizes that everything in nature is connected and interdependent, and this whole is a greater power than each of its parts. So to a pantheist, nature and all of its components are themselves God. The pantheist deity is a non-sentient, yet coherent, force without the imposed structure of a separate, intelligent, controlling entity.

[-Annwyn-]

I am apostate from the Roman Catholic Church since about 2011 when I formally defected. I define Atheism as literally "lack of belief in any gods". Unless there is undeniable, scientifically, peer-reviewed evidence that there is a deity, I live my life as if there isn't one. Magic water, magic words or a book of fairy tales just don't cut it for me when people threaten that I have to live my life by them,and that if I don't believe, I get sent to some horrible place (especially with no proof).

At least with Mermaiding, I know it's pretend.

[Mermaid Kelda]

I tend to refer to myself as an agnostic atheist. Dawkins did an "atheism scale", from 1 to 7; I've found that if you just call yourself an Atheist, people think you're a 7, which is absolutely positive there is no god, and really we can never be sure of anything. We could all be brains in vats. Unlikely, but you can never be sure ;) you just have to work to your best assumptions.

I myself am a 6; almost certain there is no god, and live my life under that assumption, but if irrefutable proof came out that there were, I would not reject it.

[-Annwyn-]

I tend to refer to myself as an agnostic atheist. Dawkins did an "atheism scale", from 1 to 7; I've found that if you just call yourself an Atheist, people think you're a 7, which is absolutely positive there is no god, and really we can never be sure of anything. We could all be brains in vats. Unlikely, but you can never be sure ;) you just have to work to your best assumptions.

I myself am a 6; almost certain there is no god, and live my life under that assumption, but if irrefutable proof came out that there were, I would not reject it.

The idea that the only reality we have is that we are just brains in vats is called 'solipsism'. I really like Dawkins scale (I actually sat in on an official discussion between himself and Leslie Cannold the other night- it was awesome!)

I also refer to myself as an agnostic atheist, as I'm always willing to hear someone's attempt at proving god exists. Some days though, I find myself leaning over to the anti-theist side. :)

[Mermaid Kelda]

Well, it's not necessarily brains in vats. It's that the only thing you can be sure exists is your own mind.

I did first year philosophy so obviously I know everything ;D

Yes, it gets easier each day to be anti-theist. Although, it's mostly institutionalised theism that I'm opposed to; I don't mind people having their own spirituality and ideas about the world. I do mind when they don't decide on that by themselves and from their own experiences, and instead are told so by parents or the media etc.

[SeaGlass Siren]

To be honest I'm not entirely sure that I am :|
I believe in angels. I believe that there might be something (be it him, her or it). I believe in science. And I also believe that something's can't be explained with science.
But I don't believe in any form of religion that makes people blindly follow them.

[Sherielle]

I usually just say I'm between religions right now. lol

[Talia]

I also believe that something's can't be explained with science.

I know there are many things that can't be explained with science JUST YET. Electromagnetism could not be explained a couple of centuries ago, but know it does. Many medical findings are just begining to be explained now.

The fact that there are things for which we have no explanation is not enough to suggest that some supernatural being made them.

[SeaGlass Siren]

^ that's also something i believe.

it's a super murky area i'm stuck in :|

[Talia]

Yes, it gets easier each day to be anti-theist. Although, it's mostly institutionalised theism that I'm opposed to; I don't mind people having their own spirituality and ideas about the world. I do mind when they don't decide on that by themselves and from their own experiences, and instead are told so by parents or the media etc.

I do not mind at all that people believe in gods, fairies, pink unicorns or whatever they chose to believe because it makes them happy.

I am very much against governments and people quoting holy books when talking about legislations or laws to be ennacted.

[-Annwyn-]

I do not mind at all that people believe in gods, fairies, pink unicorns or whatever they chose to believe because it makes them happy.

I am very much against governments and people quoting holy books when talking about legislations or laws to be ennacted.

Exactly. I'm all for the separation of church and state.

[Lucinda]

Dawkins did an "atheism scale", from 1 to 7;







Personally, I don't care much for that scale. I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy either, but nobody has ever asked me to rate my disbelief for those characters. So why should I rate my lack of belief in God? As far as I'm concerned, all three are figments of the imagination \ social constructs. I could just as well say that I have an invisible friend that only I can see, say that this friend can't be detected using any scientific methods and then make up a scale for how much belief or disbelief people have for my invisible friend.



If Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy don't need a scale then neither does God IMHO.

[Jadestone]

yep! very much so. stopped believing in gods around the same time I stopped believing in santa and fairies, for much the same reasons.

I think the world is wonderful and amazing enough just as it is. I've never needed religion or mysticism in order to find 'magic' in real things and science and nature. I can appreciate that it adds value to some people's lives, and I think that's great for them, but doesn't really apply to me--and I have a buncha issues with religion as an institution (versus people's individual spirituality).

[Mermaid Melanie]

I would say I don't believe in any gods. I can see how religion can be a comfort or a guide for people throughout their lives, my mother is a catholic and my father is protestant but they decided to let me make up my own mind when I was old enough to understand what it all meant. Im glad I chose no religion, because from my point of view, it is the worst thing to happen to the planet. I wish we could erase it from all memory. I actually checked this evening to see if there were any countries where religion was banned and apparently not but Czech Republic are the least religious country with around 61% of the people being, irreligious. I just think it causes more bad than good, I understand the principals of religion but sadly some people twist and warp religion to suit their own agenda. I think if everyone removed religion from their life and tried to be decent human beings then the world would be a better place. I don't know of a single religion that has not been the root of violence. There are even violent Buddists in Mynamar persecuting Muslims , in my home town I saw religious wars being fought by school kids that didnt even fully understand what they were fighting for and even worse sport and religion are neck in neck in my home, rangers fans are "proddys" or "huns" and celtic fans would be called "tims" or "Fenian" all bigotry! In Dubai I was threatened with having the police called on me for eating a cracker in reception ... it was Ramadan and apparently not allowed... Im sorry but religious rules should apply to those that follow said religion. Ugh rant over ! hope I didnt upset anyone, I just feel really strongly about how religion effects the world :(

[SeaGlass Siren]

^ no this. I AGREE WITH THIS SO MUCH.

[Talia]

In Dubai I was threatened with having the police called on me for eating a cracker in reception ... it was Ramadan and apparently not allowed... Im sorry but religious rules should apply to those that follow said religion.

I hate this. I hope nothing bad happened to you.

That's what happens when you let religion rule everyday life in a country by government interference. Other places people can look down on you if you don't go to church or eat meat on Friday but at least you are not going to prison for it.

[Lucinda]

In Dubai I was threatened with having the police called on me for eating a cracker in reception ... it was Ramadan and apparently not allowed...



Dubai seems like a highly contradictory place: On one hand, they keep marketing it to westerners as some beach paradise. On the other hand, they appear to have no tolerance what-so-ever for any western quirks. Western tourists, bring your wallets but leave you're culture at home! That seems to be the underlying attitude.



Here's a good overview of things you'd have to take into if you travelled there: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Dubai

BTW, didn't Hannah Mermaid actually perform as a mermaid in Dubai?

[Echidna]

Here's a good overview of things you'd have to take into if you travelled there: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Dubai



wow.

"Crimes" punishable by death are: homosexuality, and apostasy.
I had to look that one up. It's basically; not being religious.

This is why I think it's stupid and dangerous to cater so much to muslim people in western countries.
Many of them want these things to happen everywhere.
They're basically in their timeline where christianity was in the darkest Middle Ages :/

On topic; I'm a spiritual person.
I believe only what I can see or verify, and I've seen quite a few "strange" things ;)

This doesn't include gods of any kind, though.
Institutionalized religion is about the worst thing that ever happened.
People are bashing their skulls in debating about whose invisible friend is the best, when all entities which have been responsible for spawning these beliefs in the first place have been gone for millenia.

Hopefully people will finally grow up mentally, but if you're looking around the globe, it doesn't bode too well in that regard.
I can only hope I've found some deserted island in the middle of the sea by the time the biggest religious factions decide to wage another all-out war- the last ones were fought with swords and sticks, the next one will be with nuclear bombs.

[Talia]

BTW, didn't Hannah Mermaid actually perform as a mermaid in Dubai?

I don't know about Hannah, but Melissa has posted videos of her saying they are taken in Dubai's Aquariums.

[Merman Chatfish]

I am agnostic, there could be a god there could not be. But then to a bacteria we could be considered their god. We give them life or kill them with antibiotics, our lives are eternal compared to theirs.

[Fifi Tigg]

I have no religious beliefs and my husbands family is Jehovah's Witness.
we have had our ups and downs with his family over the years but are now on a happy medium with them. They say a prayer at the dinner table in their own home, we will just be quiet and let them do their prayer. When they come to stay they respect our non religious beliefs and just go with the flow :)
Because my hubby grew up with no Easter bunny, tooth fairy, birthdays or Christmas, he goes super over the top with everything! It's very cute and I feel sorry for him that he missed out on all the magic as a kid.
In my own personal experience and view religion equals arguments, tears, family's being torn apart and worst case war! Not my cup of tea that's for sure.

[Merman Chatfish]

Because my hubby grew up with no Easter bunny, tooth fairy, birthdays or Christmas, he goes super over the top with everything! It's very cute and I feel sorry for him that he missed out on all the magic as a kid.

Is he one of those who makes the house visible from space with christmas lights?

[Fifi Tigg]

Is he one of those who makes the house visible from space with christmas lights?
Yes you got that right �� lol

[Merman Chatfish]

Yes you got that right �� lol

I know its way too much energy but at the same time I want to do it because we never put lights on our house.

[telzey.amberdon]

Any world that has mermaids in it has to be on purpose. That implies divine design.

[Merman Chatfish]

So we are gods since we are the ones who came up with mermaids?

[Lucinda]

I don't know about Hannah, but Melissa has posted videos of her saying they are taken in Dubai's Aquariums.



You're probably right. It's easy to get them mixed up at first. I know that Hannah has worked at an Atlantis resort, but it seems like the resort in question was the sister resort in the Bahamas, not the Dubai one. But I know that at least one professional mermaid has worked as such in Dubai, which seems bizarre considering that at least the top half of most mermaid costumes would not be considered modest according to the law in Dubai. So it seems like many hotels and resorts are like some kind of ghettos where the normal (Islamic) rules don't apply, where it's ok to drink, wear a bikini etc. But clearly that's not the case in all these places considering the cracker in the reception example mentioned earlier in this thread. My conclusion: There are better, and safer sunny beach places for mermaids elsewhere on this planet.

[Meronica]

I was raised to believe in whatever I want. I was Christian during most of my teen years; youth group camp-outs, Sunday school, the whole deal. I think that now I am somewhere between agnostic and atheist. There may be some form of a god or divine pattern in the universe, and when times are rough I may even pray, but I don't think that the existence of a god would mean very much to humans. I make an effort to be kind to all humans and animals, and I think that being a generally "good" person is really all one can do.

I also have very religious (yet also extremely hypocritical) cousins. One of them was just recently the victim of a murder-suicide resulting from a custody dispute and I feel that the rest of her family's extreme faith in Christianity is preventing them from fully grasping the situation. I don't think religion was ever meant to shield us from reality, but unfortunately it does, all too often. :/

[Merman Chatfish]

That is how I want to raise my kids, so they can find whatever holds true for them.

[Theta]

I would say I don't believe in any gods. I can see how religion can be a comfort or a guide for people throughout their lives, my mother is a catholic and my father is protestant but they decided to let me make up my own mind when I was old enough to understand what it all meant. Im glad I chose no religion, because from my point of view, it is the worst thing to happen to the planet. I wish we could erase it from all memory. I actually checked this evening to see if there were any countries where religion was banned and apparently not but Czech Republic are the least religious country with around 61% of the people being, irreligious. I just think it causes more bad than good, I understand the principals of religion but sadly some people twist and warp religion to suit their own agenda. I think if everyone removed religion from their life and tried to be decent human beings then the world would be a better place. I don't know of a single religion that has not been the root of violence. There are even violent Buddists in Mynamar persecuting Muslims , in my home town I saw religious wars being fought by school kids that didnt even fully understand what they were fighting for and even worse sport and religion are neck in neck in my home, rangers fans are "proddys" or "huns" and celtic fans would be called "tims" or "Fenian" all bigotry! In Dubai I was threatened with having the police called on me for eating a cracker in reception ... it was Ramadan and apparently not allowed... Im sorry but religious rules should apply to those that follow said religion. Ugh rant over ! hope I didnt upset anyone, I just feel really strongly about how religion effects the world :(

Brief PSA (I know that Dubai and Saudi Arabia are not the same thing): If you ever find yourself in SA, you will be expected to follow Muslim religious law whether you follow that religion or not (one of my good friends is living there now, and they had to smuggle in a Christmas tree, because they're banned.) Just be careful :/

Also, if you're menstruating, pregnant, or severely ill you are allowed to not follow the fast during Ramadan. So you can always tell them you're having your period if anyone gives you shit.

[Echidna]

Also, if you're menstruating, pregnant, or severely ill you are allowed to not follow the fast during Ramadan. So you can always tell them you're having your period if anyone gives you shit.

I wouldn't recommend saying that unless it's true, because you can be sure they'll check.
It's a law case over there.
If you're caught pretending, you'll be in serious trouble.

[Lucinda]

I wouldn't recommend saying that unless it's true, because you can be sure they'll check.
It's a law case over there.
If you're caught pretending, you'll be in serious trouble.


So much for personal integrity, I guess! I'm so glad I live in a society where being a non-conformist (such as an atheist, for instance) doesn't leave you without human rights.

[Theta]

I wouldn't recommend saying that unless it's true, because you can be sure they'll check.
It's a law case over there.
If you're caught pretending, you'll be in serious trouble.

Fair point.

[Mermaid Kelda]

Personally, I don't care much for that scale. I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy either, but nobody has ever asked me to rate my disbelief for those characters. So why should I rate my lack of belief in God? As far as I'm concerned, all three are figments of the imagination \ social constructs. I could just as well say that I have an invisible friend that only I can see, say that this friend can't be detected using any scientific methods and then make up a scale for how much belief or disbelief people have for my invisible friend.

If Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy don't need a scale then neither does God IMHO.
I agree with you in a sense - I very much enjoyed Neil deGrasse Tyson's "Atheism" video - but I think Dawkins' scale speaks more from the point of view that you can't KNOW anything for sure. The whole idea behind religion is faith. Faith is belief without evidence. If we're working on the assumption that God doesn't exist, then those Christians who say they "know" God exists are clearly wrong and shouldn't be touting their "knowledge" without some clear evidence.

The reverse is also true. I believe that I "know" God doesn't exist, but who knows, in the future evidence might come out that proves God's existence. Then where will I be? I can't have "known" that God didn't exist and then "known" that he does. I must have been wrong one of those times, and yet I thought I was sure both times. Dawkins' point was that you can never "know" anything - you just have to give it your best assumption and live according to that. To be 100% sure of God's non-existence is as bad as being 100% sure of his existence. Seeing as none of us can even prove the world exists at all and that we aren't just brains floating in alien liquid ;)

[Lucinda]

To be 100% sure of God's non-existence is as bad as being 100% sure of his existence.

Actually, I don't think it matters how strongly someone believes or doesn't believe. What matters is how people react to things that challenge their beliefs. For instance, a person can be quite devout for years but then later on change their minds. Other people can be just as devout but become hostile toward anyone or anything that challenges their beliefs. And some can be just as devout but at the same time tolerant of differing beliefs and those who hold these differing beliefs..

Right now, I have no reason whatsoever to believe that there is a god or any other form of deity. These past ten years, I've read, heard or experienced nothing that would change my views. Nature seems to be working just fine without a god. The entire universe seems to be working just fine without a god. Maybe some day in the future someone will develop a "god detector", but I haven't got the faintest idea what principle such a doohickey would be based on... hence I have no reason to believe that anyone would be able to build such a thing. I can't think of anything that a god could do that could make me believe. Thunderbolts and a voice booming from the heavens? Nope, I'd be more inclined to believe that some ETs are pulling off a practical joke than assume that there's a god behind that. Also, if God is supposed to be all-powerful and good, why do so so many bad things have to happen. I prefer to think that bad things happen cause people (or other organisms) make them happen or because natural disasters tend to occur. But if there is an all-powerful god, then he either wants these things to happen or he's doesn't give a toss. Either way, why would I want such a god to exist?

I'm quite sure that there is no god, but if something were to happen that would be convincing enough... then why wouldn't I start believing again? But at the end of the day, I can't think of anything that could possibly happen to convince me. Does this make me a strong, or a weak atheist? Does it matter? Today, I lived my day assuming that God does not exist, just as I've lived every day these past twelve years. And most likely, I won't be believing in God tomorrow either and I doubt anything will happen tomorrow to change my mind. But that doesn't make me as dangerous as the 100% devout who attack anyone who doesn't believe the same as they do.

[Mermaid Kelda]

I think we may be making the same points in different ways :P I totally agree with you. One should live one's life under the best assumptions they have. At the moment, for you and I, that's that there is no God. There has been no convincing evidence to the contrary.

The fact that you admit that, given irrefutable evidence, you may change your beliefs - that means you are not 100%. That's the point I'm trying to make. Someone who was 100% sure in their belief would not accept evidence to the contrary, no matter how convincing. And believe me, I've met devout atheists. They're just as dangerous as devout Christians, and will attack you if you make a point against them, even if you agree with them.

As you say, you live your life assuming what you believe to make the most sense. That's all anyone can do.

[Lucinda]

In a nutshell, what I don't like about that scale is that it equates keeping an open mind with "weaker" atheism, which as something that annoys me as a scientist. From my point of view, that degree of certainty is something I associate with religion, not with atheism or with science.

I'm open to the idea that a god could exist, because I understand the concept but also because I'm not all-knowing myself (and therefor not an authority on Life, the Universe and Everything). But based upon what I do know, I think it's highly unlikely that there is a god. And the irrefutable proof that would be required to make me believe again... let's just say that my expectations are so high that I doubt anything would be irrefutable enough for me. This in my opinion makes me a "strong" atheist no matter what Dawkins might think.

(Keeping an open mind is part of my nature, my personality. The choice not to believe, is a strong decision that I've made based on facts.)

[-Annwyn-]

Does anyone here have issues around the Mythmas table?

I have many Atheist friends who celebrate Xmas for the simple reason of sparkly lights, presents, happy kids, decadent food and good times. For me, it's more of a 'force-a-grin-while-you-fundy-sister-denies-her-kids-a-piece-of-bread-whilst-claiming-the-moral-highground" spectacular. Last year my sister's husband (and fundy Xtian) blew up in my face over - get this - a simple music video - and snarled "Stop trying to control my children!!" before dragging my 6-year old neice into one of the bedrooms, cornered her and began to verbally assault her(Fortunately, my dad was in the room to witness it, otherwise I would have been to blame even though it wasn't my fault). I ran out of the house and couldn't be found for a good half hour as I had literally run across the neighbourhood to get away from him. My partner and my brother has to drive around to try and find me and convince me to come back. My dad then forced me to sit at the table with him and eat, all the while he and my sister were denying their kids any treats and the kids were screaming and it was all horrible. My parents are well aware that I will not tolerate anything like that ever again or I will instantly leave. I hate my BIL and I'm pretty estranged from my sister (I've tried too many times to invite her to do sisterly-bonding stuff with me but she always refuses, so I stopped trying).

It's a really unpleasant situation to be in. Thing is I was happy to celebrate the day but my BIL already had it in his plans to strike out.

[Echidna]

I have many Atheist friends who celebrate Xmas for the simple reason of sparkly lights, presents, happy kids, decadent food and good times.

It's just like Halloween in that regard.
It's a religious holiday, but all of the US and half of the rest of the world use it to wear costumes and have fun, even though they do not have any roots to its celtic origins.

My family is part atheist, part cursory christian.
By "cursory", I mean that they will call themselves such, but practice none of its rules or values, apart from admonishing others, of course.

The funny part is that there is no such thing as "christmas".
It's the winter solstice, end of.
If you want to celebrate the winter solstice, be my guest.
But at least do it without adding x-tian symbolism to it which has zero to do with the original festival lol.

In European countries, the word for X-mas is still the old word with a twist.

Germany, for example, knows the time as the "twelve nights" which were dangerous because the veil to the otherworld grew thin, with the most dangerous day/night the twelfth night, or "smoky night".
The church just changed Smoky Night to Holy Night and called it a deal.

If I can't spend the solstice with people who know what it means, I'd rather be alone.
As a veggie and nondrinker/nonsmoker, I'm considered a buzzkill in about 99,9% of holiday congregations anyway. :p

[Lucinda]

The funny part is that there is no such thing as "christmas".
It's the winter solstice, end of.
If you want to celebrate the winter solstice, be my guest.
But at least do it without adding x-tian symbolism to it which has zero to do with the original festival lol.


I remember that my religions teacher at school used to argue that Jesus couldn't have been born in December, cause no shepherd would be out with his flock of sheep at that time of year (too cold). Hence the shepherds who visited the newborn Jesus, couldn't have been outside when they heard news about his birth. (So if they were there, then it couldn't have been December.)
I've also heard it argued that December was chosen to celebrate his birth so that the holiday would coincide with the Roman holiday of Saturnalia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia
Interestingly enough, gift-giving was a part of the Saturnalian festivities.
A lot of other Christmas traditions are also considered to have pagan origin: Such as the Christmas tree and eating ham (in Nordic countries). Both seem to have originated from Germanic midwinter traditions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_ham

All in all, it wouldn't surprise me if the origin of most Christmas traditions can be traced to one pagan religion or the other.

[Trident True]

I need to point out that Atheists if you want to call it that. its impossible for most people to be atheists as an atheist is a person that has studied all religions on the planet and has come to the conclusion that not one of them is a belief system nor is there a god. most people i think would fall under Agnostic. which means that you don't believe in something strong enough in order to peruse it/study it. I'm a Practicing Witch so I personally believe in a goddess which is GIA the mother of all things. im not doing to ramble on about my belief system but others that share the same spirit and belief will know what I mean.

[Mermaid Kelda]

an atheist is a person that has studied all religions on the planet and has come to the conclusion that not one of them is a belief system nor is there a god
Not sure I agree with you there. Atheism is a thought process and a state of being. Simply, to believe that there is no god is to be atheist. It doesn't matter if you think that they should read up on every god that humans have ever thought up before they make up their mind - that doesn't change the fact that they have already made up their mind that they don't believe a god exists, and that's what makes them atheist.

The dictionary/wiki definition of atheist is just one who believes there are no deities. Usually that's because it's illogical to them, so reading up on Zeus and Gaia and the FSM and every other huge or tiny religion won't change their mind.


which means that you don't believe in something strong enough in order to peruse it/study it.
If I say I like cheese, would you tell me I was wrong because I haven't tasted every cheese there is? Am I a cheese agnostic? Can I not say with any certainty that cheese is a thing I enjoy? Not the greatest example because I can't think of anything better, but I hope my meaning still came across haha.

I guess I'm saying, how can you call yourself a believer in the goddess when you haven't read every book out there that talks about Christianity or Buddhism or Shinto-ism or whatever else? I mean, you should really call yourself an agnostic witch, shouldn't you? How can anyone believe anything if they don't know everything there is to know about everything? It's impossible. We can't ever know everything. So we go by what seems to make the most sense to us. For me, that's that there are no gods. Therefore, I am an atheist. (Technically I do call myself an agnostic atheist, for those reasons I just stated, but others are still allowed to call themselves atheists if they believe they can be sure.)

[Trident True]

I guess I'm saying, how can you call yourself a believer in the goddess when you haven't read every book out there that talks about Christianity or Buddhism or Shinto-ism or whatever else? I mean, you should really call yourself an agnostic witch, shouldn't you? How can anyone believe anything if they don't know everything there is to know about everything? It's impossible. We can't ever know everything. So we go by what seems to make the most sense to us. For me, that's that there are no gods. Therefore, I am an atheist. (Technically I do call myself an agnostic atheist, for those reasons I just stated, but others are still allowed to call themselves atheists if they believe they can be sure.)[/QUOTE]

I don't have to read every book on the subject to believe in the goddess that's something that comes from spirituality, now by me not reading all books there are known on the subject does't make me agnostic. As a practicing Witch of a solitary system you only study what you believe in and the paths that are of interest to you. This doesn't mean that I don't believe in all aspects of witchcraft. I do not call myself an Agnostic witch as if i did i would be stating to others that I don't believe in anything that pertains to the practice of my path of witchcraft. I call Myself a Witch as A Witch is someone that practices that art of magick you do make an excellent point that we can't know everything but we don't have to in order to believe or practice something.

but others are still allowed to call themselves atheists if they believe they can be sure.

MO is if someone wants to call themselves an atheist then they need to know everything and studied everything in order to come up with the fact the deities don't exist, but because us humans can't know everything on everything and all religions than atheist's do not exist. most people will be know as a Agnostic. the cheese Quote was used as a general Term, if you use it as a spiritual term, there is a big difference between the two.

[-Annwyn-]

You can debate the point till the cows come home. Atheism truly is simply a lack in a belief of any god/s.

Also, there is no such thing as witchcraft. If there is, feel free to prove it.

[Mermaid Kelda]

I don't have to read every book on the subject to believe in the goddess that's something that comes from spirituality [...] you do make an excellent point that we can't know everything but we don't have to in order to believe or practice something.
Then why do I have to have read every book to call myself atheist? Your belief system is no different from mine. We just believe two different things.

You can't say you're allowed to "only study what you believe in and the paths that are of interest to you" and then tell someone that they can't call themselves atheist because they haven't studied every religion. It works both ways; if you haven't studied everything and yet have chosen a religion, others can do the same.


MO is if someone wants to call themselves an atheist then they need to know everything and studied everything in order to come up with the fact the deities don't exist, but because us humans can't know everything on everything and all religions than atheist's do not exist. most people will be know as a Agnostic. the cheese Quote was used as a general Term, if you use it as a spiritual term, there is a big difference between the two.
It all depends on the evidence you personally need to believe in something. Studying a religion isn't going to make me decide to follow that religion. That's not how it works, for me at least. I might say, gee, that's a nice philosophy, I like their idea of not harming others. Or, I like that religion's thoughts about the treatment of women. Or, I like this other religion's thoughts on education and learning. There are a lot of nice philosophies in religions. And I apply a lot of them to my daily life. Little things like do unto others etc. But I believe that it was just people who thought these things up. I'm a secular humanist - I believe humans have the capacity for moral thought and kindness without a god to force it into them.

But the whole thing centres around the fact that I need hard evidence to change my beliefs. That doesn't mean books and records. Those are written by humans and thus could very easily be made up. Do you see what I mean? I need physical, first-person evidence that a god exists. I haven't found that yet, so as such I am currently an atheist. Atheism isn't a religion. I'm not saying "MY religion is better than YOURS and I know that JUST BECAUSE". Lack of belief in a deity is a separate thing from belief in a different type of deity. I don't believe, not because I don't know enough about each religion, but because religion itself is illogical to me. It's not a case of "I don't like this religion for these reasons, or this religion for those reasons, or this religion because this god is spiteful and I don't like spiteful gods". It's I don't like religion full stop.

Another example - vegans don't eat meat or animal products. They don't eat it because of their belief that it is wrong, or whatever, but let's use that for this example. Now, I could say to a vegan, "but have you tried goat's cheese? Have you tried duck eggs? Have you tried pork and ham and steak and bacon and llama and platypus and ostrich and shark? No? You haven't tried all of those? Then how can you call yourself a true vegan?"

Vegans aren't vegan because they've researched each type of meat and decided they don't want to eat it or use it. They refuse meat and animal products because ALL of them oppose their personal belief system. ALL meat and ALL animal products are non-vegan simply for existing. Similarly, I am atheist because the idea of a god at all is illogical in my opinion. Whether or not I know the ins and outs of religions makes no difference. One religion could say, "there is a god who is always invisible, has never spoken to humans, will never speak to them, and there is no way of knowing he exists. But he does exist!". But that's ridiculous. You could say anything exists, and sure, anything might exist, but until I see proof, I won't believe in it. That's my philosophy. That's why I'm an atheist. That's what being an atheist means.

[Echidna]

^^ all of that.
I would have said something similar, but I was too tired and lazy :p

As to witchcraft; it means merely someone is practicing the rituals of the old pagan cults (there are many, all a bit different), so yea, it certainly does exist lol.

Maybe you rather meant magick and spells.
Those exist too, some of them are even used by scientists and doctors, they just call them by different names-
for example hypnosis, auto-hypnosis, autogenic training, and biofeedback.
Despite the fancy labels, wise men and women have used these techniques for thousands of years already.

Add in that they knew about the healing properties of herbs and plants, and you begin to understand why the medieval medici, who studied stuff that we by now would call total bogus, which more often than not harmed their patients more than they ever helped (drinking liquid metals does that to you), felt such an overwhelming need to get rid of the wise women, luckily the inquisition was there to help them out with that.

[Mermaid Kelda]

I would have said something similar, but I was too tired and lazy :p
I get random bursts of energy for these things, then I go back to "ahhh... fuck it" mode and no one hears from me on the topic again. Laziness is powerful :P

[Talia]

I was wondering, just like in the vegan thread, how long would it take for a believer to come here and explain to us how wrong we are, not only for defining ourselves as atheists, but also because we are do not have a "spiritual path".

[Mermaid Kelda]

Yeah, I'm all for intelligent discussion, but if you say I'm flat out wrong in my beliefs... Yes, I might be wrong! But so might you! I'm just doing the best I can with the information given to me. I mean, there's a lot to be said for spirituality; it can help with personal growth, anger management, inner peace, outlook on life, self confidence, etc etc. And a lot of what comes with it, like meditation and daily ritual, can be very calming and helpful. But it doesn't have to be joined with religion - my spirituality is being connected with the earth and other people through caring and good deeds, seeing beauty in things, and knowing that I have a limited amount of time to exist and should spend it in ways that make me (and others) happy. I see my own spirituality as more of an awareness of myself, my surroundings, and the way I think everything deserves to be treated. It's all down to the individual, and spirituality is such a personal thing. No one ever has the right to say someone is too spiritual, or not spiritual enough, or not in the right way. As long as what you believe isn't harmful to other people, I say believe in anything you want ;)

[Mermaid Momo]

As to witchcraft; it means merely someone is practicing the rituals of the old pagan cults (there are many, all a bit different), so yea, it certainly does exist lol.


IMO that is not what witchcraft is. Witchcraft is using magic, spells, etc. and isn't specific to just old pagan cults. Witchcraft can be whatever the practitioner wants to call witch craft. and isn't necessarily a ritual.

[Echidna]

Call it whatever you like, I was just replying to the statement that it "doesn't exist".
Which was probably said under the assumption it means having supernatural powers and flying around on a broom.

[PearlieMae]

Paganism, simplistically, is the worship of deity through nature. Nothing more.

Witchcraft is the manipulation of energy towards a goal. Prayer, knocking wood, wishing, shouting at the sky, can all be considered witchcraft. "Witch" and "Wicca" comes from the ancient Celtic word we 'wicce' that means 'wise one'.

[-Annwyn-]

Then why do I have to have read every book to call myself atheist?


You don't.

[PearlieMae]

Yeah, I'm all for intelligent discussion, but if you say I'm flat out wrong in my beliefs... Yes, I might be wrong! But so might you! I'm just doing the best I can with the information given to me. I mean, there's a lot to be said for spirituality; it can help with personal growth, anger management, inner peace, outlook on life, self confidence, etc etc. And a lot of what comes with it, like meditation and daily ritual, can be very calming and helpful. But it doesn't have to be joined with religion - my spirituality is being connected with the earth and other people through caring and good deeds, seeing beauty in things, and knowing that I have a limited amount of time to exist and should spend it in ways that make me (and others) happy. I see my own spirituality as more of an awareness of myself, my surroundings, and the way I think everything deserves to be treated. It's all down to the individual, and spirituality is such a personal thing. No one ever has the right to say someone is too spiritual, or not spiritual enough, or not in the right way. As long as what you believe isn't harmful to other people, I say believe in anything you want ;)

:clap: :mermaid kiss:

[AniaR]

This is a super interesting thread! I am really enjoying all the thought-out replies.

I have zero idea what I believe in or don't at this point in my life. I was raised without religion until the age of 12. Then when I moved with my dad they all became born again Christians in Catholicism and it was very much forced upon me. THAT BEING SAID I actually gave it a real sincere go to see if it was the right thing for me. I tried to open my mind to it, I volunteered a lot, went on trips, even met one of the popes. (I have a funny semi unrelated story about that I'm going to share at the bottom of this post**) But I frequently got panic attacks at church, I didn't like how my family was so committed to being a nuclear family (meaning dad could override anything- just cuz), I often found I got little help from my dad and step mom for SERIOUS issues. I'd get the reply "if you only had more faith" or "just pray about it" and it would make me so mad. After all these years I still have a lot of resentment over that. I will be honest 99% of the priests I knew and attended church with were kick ass forward thinking priests. I met some amazing nuns too.

But... at the end of the day the more educated I got, the more the church continued digging it's heels in, and even now so many in the church calling out the pope who is being forward thinking after years of saying the pope's word is God word (gimme a break) I def don't believe in the church anymore. I separated myself and I think I even have PTSD over it in some ways. The church experience gave me a lot of good experiences. I didn't have that many bad experiences from THE ACTUAL church. It was more how my family decided to use religion. How I saw others using it. And how I saw it on the whole that made me leave. Also I could NOT walk into a church without being harassed to volunteer and I do mean harassed. Guilt tripped. Big time. It got really bad and I ended up telling someone off for judging me for not volunteering for something when I was seriously ill. Speaking of ill, when I got really ill out of all the "friends" I made through church no one came to see me or wished me better or tried to help.

Right now I am not sure if I believe in a God or not. I guess I would fall in the agnostic category. I will admit though, I think the reason I am open to spirituality of some sort is that I have a mega bad death phobia. Annwyn and I talked about it in another thread. I hate when people go on and on online about phobias like they're clothing and how they have them I try not to talk about mine so much because it's really out there, hard for people to understand, and we all have that someone who acts like they have everything wrong with them you know? but yeah I did a 3 year therapy stint and a big chunk of it was trying to get over this fear. There are certain risk factors that can predispose a person to have it, and I have all of them. I have had several serious near death experiences, I experienced traumatic events, I experienced near-fatal illness as a child, many people with religious upbringings develop it (because of the unending fear of hell being thrown in your face) and I believe some family members have it (though they don't say it) and new studies say there may be some genetic portion to it. What it all boils down to is I would *like* there to be a heaven or some sort of afterlife because I am freaking terrified of there being NOTHING. And you can tell me, I wont care cuz I wont know. but that's like telling me "you're choking? but look at all this air around you! Just breathe!" lol. I don't care that when I die I wont be aware and wont know. I am aware now. It causes never ending night terrors, panic attacks, and some weird decision making on my end. People see that I am a very busy mermaid, that I do a lot of "stuff" and always ask me where I find the time and energy. It's honestly allllll driven by my fear of death. I'm afraid my life will mean nothing and that I might die tomorrow so I have to cram in as much as possible because if this is it, this is it. It's like a very messed up version of YOLO. I'm afraid of no afterlife, I'm afraid of pain, the unknown, lack of control. It's a messed up disorder because we're all afraid of death it's how we keep ourselves safe. But I obsess at times. (though I have really come a long way!)

Recently I have really gotten into the spiritual aspects of yoga. I'm not saying I believe it all. But it sure seems to fit me a hell of a lot more than christianity ever did. I feel very at peace when I do it. Very calm. Very aware.

I don't know if I could ever just agree that there's nothing out there. But again, it doesn't come from lack of critical thought or anything. it's honestly fear driven. I don't want to accept that reality because it scares me so much :( and I know, that's messed up. I think that's the bases of why so many people ignore scientific findings- they are scared of what it implies you know?

Funny Pope Story- when I met him I was wearing a silly nametag that said Alaska. So he said "God Bless you Alaska" and blessed me. so Alaska is apparently really holy now... ;)

[-Annwyn-]

Funny Pope Story- when I met him I was wearing a silly nametag that said Alaska. So he said "God Bless you Alaska" and blessed me. so Alaska is apparently really holy now... ;)

LOL!! Thats funny.

before I defected the RCC, I separated myself and tried other things, one of which was Wicca. Same shilling of 'you can have great things if you just have faith*......and give us your cash!'

* Faith- believing in something based on no evidence whatsoever.

Once I realised it was all Bullshit, no matter the flavour, I sent a 'Actus Formalis Defectionis Ab Ecclesia Catholica' to the Archbisop of Melbourne, and have been free as a bird since then! :)

I was so lucky though that I was a part of a religion that (up until 2010 at least) allowed me to leave the church completely, without fear of being socially ostracised or executed, unlike other religions . Now the sneaky pricks have changed canon law so they only mark your name against the baptismal registry.

[AniaR]

'Actus Formalis Defectionis Ab Ecclesia Catholica'

i didnt even know that was a thing! learn something new everyday!

[-Annwyn-]

i didnt even know that was a thing! learn something new everyday!

nor did I for that matter (not exactly something they teach in class!) but once it was advised to me that it existed, there was no going back. My (atheist) friends kept insisting that it wasn't necessary, that it was perhaps more effort then it was worth and by just leaving I was virtually giving the RCC the finger anyway. But, I'm not the kind of person to do things by halves. It was more of a 'finalising, wrapping things up' kind of thing. Tidying loose strings, so to speak.

[AniaR]

Yeah I see it as being a great way to end a chapter or get closure too. I know the church can excommunicate people I had it happen to friends I knew. They had an affair so the church excommunicated them!

[MarkF]

Religion having faith there is a God and creator of all things or Atheism the religion of the assumption the universe is a randomly assembled sequence of events without the real explanation of the origin of matter or life. I follow both and given to believe in a God as an origin. Science has been manipulated for profit (outcome based grants) and so much not provable but assumed with other building on the earlier assumption isn’t inspiring when using it while working in the fringes.
I’d ask why believe in nothing with death stacking you or the realization you have little control or the world that threatens your family.
I like to hear beliefs from friends in a sincere exchange than some stranger randomly knocking at my door.
Either way you have to believe in the unexplainable and un-provable. Either way it's easier to prove the existence of Mermaids. :cool:

[Lucinda]

I’d ask why believe in nothing with death stacking you or the realization you have little control or the world that threatens your family.


I might be misunderstanding what your trying to say, but either way I would like to point out that there's a difference between wanting things to be a certain way and the way you think they are. So if someone doesn't believe in God, heaven etc. that doesn't mean that that person wouldn't want all that to exist. It's a bit like dealing with scams: Someone promises to send you a lot of cash if you help them out first by sending them some. You chose not to do that, but not because you don't want to help others (or because you don't want more money) but because you think it's a lie. It's the same for me with religion, I would really like it if a lot of that were true... I would really want it. But ultimately, what I want doesn't matter: either God and life after death exist or they don't. Either way, I can't will them into existence or non-existence.

[MarkF]

Who knows why most people choose one way or another perhaps for some it like insurance.

[Merman Chatfish]

I like the Unitarian way of handling religion: "whatevs...lets go play laser tag".

[Mermaid Kelda]

Who knows why most people choose one way or another perhaps for some it like insurance.
TBH I've never understood this. I hear people all the time say "if there's a hell & you believe in God, you'll be fine. If there's a hell and you don't believe in God, you're screwed. If there's no hell and you believe in God, it doesn't make a difference anyway, so why not believe in God? It's the safest option!"

But that seems, idk, sort of false. I can't make myself believe in God. Whether or not the idea of hell scares me enough to want to believe makes no difference - if I said I was a Christian "just in case" because I didn't want to go to hell, surely an omniscient God would know the difference and be like "lol no, not good enough buddy"

[Echidna]

You can't "choose" to believe in something, "just in case it's true".
That's called pretending.

Of course, people get by splendidly with pretending, especially as all the things they pretend to believe in don't exist in the first place :p

[Talia]

Atheism the religion of the assumption the universe is a randomly assembled sequence of events without the real explanation of the origin of matter or life.
Science has been manipulated for profit (outcome based grants) and so much not provable but assumed with other building on the earlier assumption isn’t inspiring when using it while working in the fringes.
I’d ask why believe in nothing with death stacking you or the realization you have little control or the world that threatens your family.
Either way you have to believe in the unexplainable and un-provable. Either way it's easier to prove the existence of Mermaids. :cool:

Your first statement is incorrect. Atheism is not a religion. Also, I do not believe "universe is a randomly assembled sequence of events without the real explanation of the origin of matter or life". I think there is an explanation about how the universe began. It's called Big Bang. And even though my mind does not comprehend all the details of it, or even if there are aspects we still do not know about, I believe we will have an explanation with time, and it will be more rational and quite more complicated than "God did it".

Sorry, but I have an issue with your second statement. The majority of scientists that work with grants do not get paid when they publish something that the grant provider wants to think is true. I know because this is how my husband works. He writes proposals both for public (government) and private funding. He proposes a line of investigation, and a question, and a path to follow to try to answer it. If the grant is awarded the work begins. If and when they have a finding, the paper to be published is peer reviewed, which excludes the problem of conflict of interests. Other times the grant is over and they still have no answer to the question proposed. It happens, and it has happened to him.

Why believe in nothing? I believe in plenty of things: the good that man can do; honesty, hard work, compassion, love for your fellow man... I believe in plenty of things. I don't believe they all come from "God" or that if you don't worship one you simply cannot have them.

You have to believe in the unexplainable and un-provable? No, I don't believe in the unexplainable and un-provable. Just as I don't believe in mermaids - even though is fun to pretend they exist, if someone came to me and told me they were real "because we only have explored 5% of the ocean and they could exist" I would not be able to take this person seriosly. Pseudo-cience is not the answer. We have biology, genetics, and evolution to think that although mermaids may exist, because we cannot prove a negative, they are highly implausible as a species. To me, the question about proving God is the same. Could it exist? Yeah, sure, why not? Do I believe it exist? No. I think God, as an entity as religions describe it (all-knowing, all-powerful, and omniscient), is is highly implausible.

[Echidna]

I think God, as an entity as religions describe it (all-knowing, all-powerful, and omniscient), is is highly implausible.

Not all religions describe their god(s) in this way.
As far as I know, only the 3 most recent do (and they basically all talk about the same god, while at the same time battling each other whose version is the best).

Older religions (from which the 3 recent ones were copied anyway) describe their gods basically as dudes from the sky.
They're taller than humans and have amazing technology, but they're dudes who don't know all, can't do everything, squabble, fight, and blow up parts of the planet they're on while waging their wars.

Doesn't sound like the god people usually talk about?
Nonetheless, all "holy scriptures" were translated from the same old sumerian legends.

Some words were changed or mistranslated, some chapters were left out to hide the fact that in the original, it is always several gods and not one (which leads to some funny pieces in the bible, where god talks to himself for a lengthy time with differing opinions), but it's not that big a difference between the bible/thorah/black sea scrolls, and the oldest cuneiform tablets written in Sumer around 6000 years ago.

Once you know that, and read up on some of the unabridged original stories, you no longer wonder why the recent religions are full of holes and contradictions.
It's because they were purposefully changed to say what manipulative people wanted them to be.

Many books have written about the subject, but it hasn't necessarily to do with atheism, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Talia]

Not all religions describe their god(s) in this way.

I did not want to imply all religions describe gods like that. I meant mainly the three major religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islamism). I should have been more precise.

It's funny that you mention "dudes who don't know all, can't do everything, squabble, fight, and blow up parts of the planet they're on while waging their wars". In the HBO Rome series, there is a conversation between Antonia and her brother Octavian, in which he says to her "there are no gods, sister"; she says something like "don't be ghastly", and he replies "surely there is a higher force, but a bunch of people that look like us, watch what we do and meddle in our affairs? Highly improbable". I have always loved that conversation.

[-Annwyn-]

Who knows why most people choose one way or another perhaps for some it like insurance.


That's called "Pascal's Wager".

[Lucinda]

Atheism saved me from a lifetime of self-loathing... of never being good enough for my parents, for other people, for society and for God (an all-seing entity that was clearly watching my every move, judging everything I did and clearly hating me cause he must have seen how dire things were in my life yet did nothing to help me). If I still believed in God today, I'd be in a mental institution.

But fortunately I stopped believing, and I did a wager of my own:
Should I waste my entire life trying to live up to other people's idea of perfection and then die only to discover that there is no afterlife and no God and that I've wasted the only life I've had...
Or, do I live a fulfilling life assuming that this is the only one I get?

[MarkF]

Lucinda what are you doing or not doing that is different?

[Elle]

My grandmother was the crazy kind of Irish Roman Catholic, so my mum had my siblings and I baptised as infants. We went to Catholic schools and did the church thing on Sunday - even kneeling on those horrible wooden things and you couldn't rest your butt on the seat to take your pressure off your knees. My siblings and I also became alter servers, which was ridiculously boring, but we got to kneel on cushioned carpet instead of wooden planks, so kind of a plus.

Then when I finished school (maybe a year after) it all stopped. She basically said stuff it and we never did anything religious again. Unless you want to include the whole Easter and Christmas thing, but we're only into the commercial side of it.

I've got nothing against religious people as long as they don't expect me to live by their rules or try and force it on me. Religion can either be a very beautiful thing or a very ugly thing. It all depends on the people.

I now identify as Pastafarian, cos any religion where you get to dress as a pirate is good by me

Though I did try out Jemima's Witnesses; you get to knock on people's doors ans see if they want to talk about Cheeses. My favourite was triple cream brie.

[Lucinda]

Lucinda what are you doing or not doing that is different?

How do you mean? In terms of lifesyle? Or attitude?

The biggest change was that I stopped feeling guilty about being human, that is, about making mistakes. Nobody is perfect, nobody has to succeed straight away at every new task they are confronted with.
Instead of feeling that I had failed other people, society and God, I began to feel that it was the other way around. They had failed me. So I turned to mother nature instead which had always been a comfort to me. I turned to science for objectivity and freedom from other people's irrational ideals and beliefs. And so I decided to study biology after school, a subject I had always loved.

[SeaGlass Siren]

(snip)

I've got nothing against religious people as long as they don't expect me to live by their rules or try and force it on me. Religion can either be a very beautiful thing or a very ugly thing. It all depends on the people.

I now identify as Pastafarian, cos any religion where you get to dress as a pirate is good by me

Though I did try out Jemima's Witnesses; you get to knock on people's doors ans see if they want to talk about Cheeses. My favourite was triple cream brie.

I agree. i've seen it help, but i've also seen it do horrible things to people.

also, can i become Jemima's witness? *dat pancake mix tho*

[-Annwyn-]

My favourite deity would have to be the Polynesian mud god, PikkiWoki. If you give him your soul, he will give you a pig and all the coconuts you can carry.

Pretty good old trade off if you ask me.

[Elle]

I agree. i've seen it help, but i've also seen it do horrible things to people.

also, can i become Jemima's witness? *dat pancake mix tho*

The wonderful thing about Jemima's witnesses is anyone can join! We don't require you to go to a church, preach, or anything (you don't actually have to door knock either). All you need to a love of cheeses.

[SeaGlass Siren]

sounds pretty awesome. are vegan cheese allowed?

[Elle]

sounds pretty awesome. are vegan cheese allowed?

We don't decriminate against cheeses. :)

[Merperson Danny]

I'm an atheist. I never really believed in too much of the bible, and from a young age, I questioned a lot. A lot of the time, I actually silenced teachers and parent because they didn't see why I was questioning these little things. But, it's those little things that made me believe less and less.
I have been an atheist for a few months, but one thing that came to mind and I keep in my mind all the time; our galaxy contains millions of solar systems. Each dollars system has it's own star(s) and planets. And there are billions of galaxies all over just the observable universe, let alone the parts we can't see. There almost definitely is other intelligent life in the universe, and this makes me think, 'why would we be special? why would we be created in God's image?'.
Another, I just think that with the amount of gods from all the religions over the world, I probably won't get my point across, there are so many that 'spoke' to people and called them. It's like, we obviously can't pinpoint which, if any, of these gods are real.
But I do respect religion. I attend a catholic school, and respect all the beliefs and all the masses we go to. Religion is actually one of my favourite topics. In the last bit, sorry if I sounded offensive in any way, I didn't mean to.

[AnnaAbyss]

I am an atheist. I think people invented the concepts of gods to comfort them because they were afraid of dying, taking responsibility for their own actions and other savoury/unsavoury things life has to offer. Religions contradict themselves unbelievably well. If there is no concrete evidence supporting said god/s, then I am not believing any of it. And like the brilliant Karl Marx said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses".
~Waits for the inevitable shitstorm~

[Mermaid Mystery]

I'm an atheistic satanist, completely different from a theistic satanist. I don't even believe in satan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[-Annwyn-]

Just found this on Bananaman's FB page.

31477

I mean really. How can someone who 'claims' to hold life sacred have such a flagrant disregard for sharks? Urgh, this just really rustled my jimmies.

[Merperson Danny]

Just found this on Bananaman's FB page.

31477

I mean really. How can someone who 'claims' to hold life sacred have such a flagrant disregard for sharks? Urgh, this just really rustled my jimmies.
Oh, that's just pissed me off for the day, now.

[MermaidBrandie]

Mostly atheist, mildly traditional Nordic beliefs here. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hydra1337]

I definitely know how it feels to be looked down on for being an atheist. I stopped believing when I was 12 but kept going to church just to please my mother. When I was around 15 I said I wasn't going anymore and no amount of grounding/punishment would make me.

In my opinion anyone that chooses to be religious can do whatever they want. I have no problems with them. I have problems with the people that try to force their religion on others. My mother is so religious she FLIPPED SH*T because I wasnt baptizing my daughter. She actually said something bad was going to happen to her because of it and it would be my own fault.

[MerMadison]

I am an atheist and have been all my life, even though I've pretended to be christian a lot.



In my opinion anyone that chooses to be religious can do whatever they want. I have no problems with them. I have problems with the people that try to force their religion on others. My mother is so religious she FLIPPED SH*T because I wasnt baptizing my daughter. She actually said something bad was going to happen to her because of it and it would be my own fault.

Hydra, I totally feel for family freaking out. My parents were actually pretty good about it, but my grandma (who we call Nana) freaked out. I still can't say hi without getting a speech on the rapture, and how I will be left behind with the rest of the heathens. I don't mind people who are religious at all, in fact I'm always interested in hearing about new religions. But sometimes people take it too far.

[-Annwyn-]

At the risk of de-railing the Mermaid Blankets thread, I thought I'd drag the topic over here.

Mermaid spirituality is bullshit. It's made up, like aura readings, chakras and crystal healings. And to hear someone drone out "Please don't offend me because of my beliefs", just NO. They're stupid beliefs worthy of ridicule, especially when there is absolutely no evidence to back up any of it, and there are people out there making money by using it to fool other people.


To quote Tim Minchin's 'Storm':
"Science adjusts it's beliefs based on what's observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.
If you show me
That, say, homeopathy works,
Then I will change my mind
I'll spin on a fucking dime
I'll be embarrassed as hell,
But I will run through the streets yelling
It's a miracle! Take physics and bin it!
Water has memory!
And while it's memory of a long lost drop of onion juice is Infinite
It somehow forgets all the poo it's had in it!"

<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px;">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

[PearlieMae]

All religion is made up. It's a panacea for the confusing curiosity of the human mind, and religious "leaders" use that confusion to enslave people to further their own purposes.

It's easy to lead your life based on a list of rules. It's much harder to have to think for yourself and ponder the results of your own actions and reactions.

[Adalira]

All religion is made up. It's a panacea for the confusing curiosity of the human mind, and religious "leaders" use that confusion to enslave people to further their own purposes.

It's easy to lead your life based on a list of rules. It's much harder to have to think for yourself and ponder the results of your own actions and reactions.

I am not religious myself but i do want to say AMEN ;) to everything Pearliemae just said.

Edit: That being said i do not agree with Annwyn, i will not get into detail or a discussion, i just don't feel people who have certain beliefs deserve to be ridiculed. If people have certain beliefs i always respect those even if i don't believe them or even agree with them. They are their beliefs and if they feel happy with those beliefs and lead a happy life for it and don't hurt anyone with their beliefs, then i say, let them be and live their lifes the way they choose.

[Hydra1337]

I am not religious myself but i do want to say AMEN ;) to everything Pearliemae just said.

Ditto.

[-Annwyn-]

Doreen Virtue is a scam artist.

[Hydra1337]

I'll just leave this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Virqo-pI5c) here.

[-Annwyn-]

I'll just leave this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Virqo-pI5c) here.

*wipes tears of laughter* I loved George Carlin!

You want funny? I got your funny (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk7MXWQOAM)!

[PearlieMae]

I am not religious myself but i do want to say AMEN ;) to everything Pearliemae just said.

Edit: That being said i do not agree with Annwyn, i will not get into detail or a discussion, i just don't feel people who have certain beliefs deserve to be ridiculed. If people have certain beliefs i always respect those even if i don't believe them or even agree with them. They are their beliefs and if they feel happy with those beliefs and lead a happy life for it and don't hurt anyone with their beliefs, then i say, let them be and live their lifes the way they choose.

The problem is that people feel the need to impose their religious beliefs on others, and they DO harm others!

It's my feeling that one's religious beliefs should be like how one wears their pubic hair...absolutely no one else's business, except maybe to those they choose to be naked with.


I'll just leave this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Virqo-pI5c) here.

Oh George, we got the zombies now, dude! You were always ahead of your time!

[Adalira]

I am not religous but i am a very spiritual being, not sure if that qualifies as being religious.
I find it relaxing and comforting to meditate, work with essentail oils, work with energy healing, listen to new age music and so forth.
Some people find comfort in going to church and praying, some people find comfort in leading a very strict religious life style.
We are all different and every person has different needs and beliefs.
The world would be a pretty boring place if we were all the same in every single way.
For me it's live and let live, as long as they don't hurt anyone or take it too far with their beliefs.

[Adalira]

[QUOTE=PearlieMae;229397]The problem is that people feel the need to impose their religious beliefs on others, and they DO harm others!

It's my feeling that one's religious beliefs should be like how one wears their pubic hair...absolutely no one else's business, except maybe to those they choose to be naked with.


I agree with you on this.
If someone asks about someone's beliefs or religion, i think it is fine to talk about it.
If not asked, it seems weird to just start talking about it out of the blue to try and "turn" others towards you religion or beliefs, that would be wtf moment for me if someone would do that to me.
Like i wrote before, i am not religious but i am spiritual but i never out of the blue talk about it with anyone.
My dad has a habbit of telling others who seem into energy healing, that i can do that and i always feel so exposed...almost naked like...when he does that. I prefer keeping it to myself and only talk to like minded people or if someone asks me about it.
Even when asked, i talk about it with caution.

[PearlieMae]

*wipes tears of laughter* I loved George Carlin!

You want funny? I got your funny (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk7MXWQOAM)!

Oh shit, that's good!

You guys are making me run through my data plan with all these funny videos!

[-Annwyn-]

The problem is that people feel the need to impose their religious beliefs on others, and they DO harm others!




Did I ever tell you about the time when I was at my infant neices christening and her father (my BIL unfortunately) decided it was a great idea to reenact the Genesis 22 (the sacrifice of Isaac), complete with a live blade held to my infant neices' throat?


And people wonder why I think religious people are fucking nuts.

[-Annwyn-]

Oh shit, that's good!

You guys are making me run through my data plan with all these funny videos!


Maybe you could pray for more bandwidth. Maybe pray to the Babby Jeebus to do a 'loaves and fishes' on your phone.

[MermaidDalni]

This thread is great with all of the discussions. My parents are different religions and when I asked them why we didn't go to church like a lot of the other kids they said "if there is a god, he'll know you believe in him without having to pay someone in a church to show it" I've been pretty cynical of religion since. I'd say I'm leaning towards Buddhism but I'm not a buddhist, so I don't know if that puts me towards atheism

[-Annwyn-]

This thread is great with all of the discussions. My parents are different religions and when I asked them why we didn't go to church like a lot of the other kids they said "if there is a god, he'll know you believe in him without having to pay someone in a church to show it" I've been pretty cynical of religion since. I'd say I'm leaning towards Buddhism but I'm not a buddhist, so I don't know if that puts me towards atheism

Bhuddism isnt a religion though. Yeah it's a wonder why God needs all that cash When he made Luke 18:22 pretty fucking clear.

[Echidna]

The problem is that people feel the need to impose their religious beliefs on others, and they DO harm others!

It's my feeling that one's religious beliefs should be like how one wears their pubic hair...absolutely no one else's business, except maybe to those they choose to be naked with.


this, so much!
And not to forget-
Institutionalized religion, especially in cahoots with politics and state, needs to be abolished.
All those dudes hoarding money stolen from taxpayers sitting in their ivory towers-
strip them of their medieval privileges, let them learn something real and earn a living for a change.

What people do in their own homes is no one's business, but openly lived, practiced and enforced religion has no place in the world.
If this were to go, about 90% of all conflicts and wars would probably lose their purpose as well.

[Echidna]

Bhuddism isnt a religion though. Yeah it's a wonder why God needs all that cash When he made Luke 18:22 pretty fucking clear.

Buddhism is a religion, it's just less "in your face" intolerant and about a special snowflake deity than the stuff from the Middle East.

That said, there is much humbug, missionary effort and misogyny in Buddhism too, but in comparison to the aforementioned "big 3", everything else looks almost good haha.

[MermaidDalni]

this, so much!
And not to forget-
Institutionalized religion, especially in cahoots with politics and state, needs to be abolished.
All those dudes hoarding money stolen from taxpayers sitting in their ivory towers-
strip them of their medieval privileges, let them learn something real and earn a living for a change.

What people do in their own homes is no one's business, but openly lived, practiced and enforced religion has no place in the world.
If this were to go, about 90% of all conflicts and wars would probably lose their purpose as well.

Tax exempt churches cost tax payers billions in the USA and they're still able to collect additional money from their patrons. I know this would cause a huge political upset but I think churches should be made tax accountable, or at least not be allowed to collect additional revenue.

[Mermaid Mystery]

Did I ever tell you about the time when I was at my infant neices christening and her father (my BIL unfortunately) decided it was a great idea to reenact the Genesis 22 (the sacrifice of Isaac), complete with a live blade held to my infant neices' throat?


And people wonder why I think religious people are fucking nuts.

ew that's disgusting. who in their right mind would even consider doing that?

[MermaidDalni]

Buddhism is a religion, it's just less "in your face" intolerant and about a special snowflake deity than the stuff from the Middle East.

That said, there is much humbug, missionary effort and misogyny in Buddhism too, but in comparison to the aforementioned "big 3", everything else looks almost good haha.

From what I've understood -and my understanding is minimal so I may be wrong- but Buddhism doesn't believe in deities but in the power of good men. The buddhas are all just exemplary men and worshipping the person rather than the teachings is actually pretty frowned upon

[Echidna]

There are plenty of deities in Buddhism. Some are revered, others are not.
Devas, Asuras, etc.
Some branches of buddhism include the whole hinduistic pantheon.

Just because people are not required to pray to particular deities in a particular fashion, doesn't mean it's suddenly not a religion anymore.
The old Norse, Greek, Roman or Egyptian pantheons worked in a similar way.

No one was required to worship a particular god if they didn't like it.
Many people openly stated even back then they didn't believe in them.

I think people are so used by now to equate religion with "inexorable intolerance and ubiquitous worship of a single supreme deity" that they don't even recognize a religion anymore if it doesn't have that feature.

[PearlieMae]

Before, religion was THE ruling political power. And I beg to differ, Echidna, you WERE expected to worship, and in very specific ways. History is full of people being killed for their beliefs/lack of beliefs.

Kings used to have to answer to the church. Nowadays, politicians are the ruling class. While in America, they are supposed to separate religion from politics, that's only in theory, unfortunately.

[Echidna]

History is full of people being killed for their beliefs/lack of beliefs.

I was talking about the specific cultures I mentioned.

Maybe shouldn't have put Romans up there, as those were ruthless exterminators of whole tribes, but that was almost always politically motivated, not because of religious beliefs.

[Mermaid Lilium]

I'm an atheist and an anti-theist. But to the point that people have their rights and freedoms to believe in whatever imaginary being they want as long as it doesn't encroach on the freedoms of others.

Also yes as a scientific mind I would alter my opinions in the face of irrefutable proof. However, if some God or gods did exist this video sums up my opinion perfectly:

https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[PetLoverSpy]

Also yes as a scientific mind I would alter my opinions in the face of irrefutable proof. However, if some God or gods did exist this video sums up my opinion perfectly:

https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo

That video is perfection.

I've always been an atheist, but I'm okay with religion so long as it's harmless. I wasn't really raised in a religious place so the closest thing I have to it in my life is agnostic friends and my parents believing in karma as a higher power. Sometimes, though, religion just scares me because of what it can make people do ... as has been described in this topic.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I'm pretty sure practicing Buddhists nowadays don't worship any specific deity with the exeption of Quan Yin and the three Chinese New Year gods (from what I've seen in the last 24 years of my existence in specific social circles anyway). And also, the Buddhists monks I know of at the moment have been female so far so I think it's safe to say there's not much misogyny that exists anymore.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I'd also like to add there are extremist Buddhists that would kill (just like all the other extremist Muslim and Christian just to name a familiar few) though I think it's safe to say they are merely just that. Terrorists. Extremists. Not true practicing Buddhists/Christians/Muslims/etc. every religion wants their people to practice peace but then some idiot has to go and do a shoot up.

i personally don't practice anything at the moment. Out of respect for my parents though I light up incense for my deceased grandfathers. Just a habit I never grew out of.

[-Annwyn-]

Out of respect for my parents though I light up incense for my deceased grandfathers.

When people die, they're dead. They cease to exist. Lighting incense is silly. In reality it does nothing. You know it. Your parents know it. The cognitive dissonance abounds.

Kind of like prayer; trying to bend the will of an omnipotent deity who has already predetermined the outcome (ergo; prayer is redundant). Its a way to do nothing and still think you're helping. It's a futile act.

[-Annwyn-]

I'm an atheist and an anti-theist. But to the point that people have their rights and freedoms to believe in whatever imaginary being they want as long as it doesn't encroach on the freedoms of others.

Also yes as a scientific mind I would alter my opinions in the face of irrefutable proof. However, if some God or gods did exist this video sums up my opinion perfectly:

https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


*Fist-bumps*

[-Annwyn-]

Buddhism is a religion, it's just less "in your face" intolerant and about a special snowflake deity than the stuff from the Middle East.

That said, there is much humbug, missionary effort and misogyny in Buddhism too, but in comparison to the aforementioned "big 3", everything else looks almost good haha.

Don't try and roll shit into another colour of glitter! ;P


There is no god in Bhuddism. Siddhartha Gautama was a mortal who simply found a way to feel good about his self righteousness. Not a god.

You might be confusing it with Taoism.

[Echidna]

When people die, they're dead. They cease to exist. Lighting incense is silly. In reality it does nothing. You know it. Your parents know it. The cognitive dissonance abounds.

Kind of like prayer; trying to bend the will of an omnipotent deity who has already predetermined the outcome (ergo; prayer is redundant). Its a way to do nothing and still think you're helping. It's a futile act.

It's not a futile act if you do it for remembrance and respect.
Just like one reminisces deceased relatives around Samhain in the western hemisphere, and offers them food and drink.
They might not see it or know of it, but it is a consolation for the living.

[Echidna]

Don't try and roll shit into another colour of glitter! ;P


There is no god in Bhuddism. Siddhartha Gautama was a mortal who simply found a way to feel good about his self righteousness. Not a god.

You might be confusing it with Taoism.

lolwat.

I know Siddartha was a dude.
It's also irrelevant.
Buddhism is classified as a religion regardless of whether there are gods in it or not.

Look it up on wikipedia or wherever , idc.

[-Annwyn-]

It's not a futile act if you do it for remembrance and respect.
Just like one reminisces deceased relatives around Samhain in the western hemisphere, and offers them food and drink.
They might not see it or know of it, but it is a consolation for the living.

If you do it for remembrance or respect then performing the act is truly useless. You can just remember a dead person in your brain. No about of arm waving, bowing, smelly-stick-lighting or mumbling certain words can influence something that no longer exists.

I'm not stopping anyone from doing it, its just a pointless act that make you feel like you're doing something when actually you're not.

[Mermaid Wesley]

Mod Wesley:
This was addressed already in the drama bubble but it needs to be restated (on this thread) that religious intolerance is not permitted here. There is a line between discussing your own beliefs and ridiculing others. Posts in this and the other thread very clearly cross this line.
From the Mernetwork rules:
Be respectful, even if you disagree with other members. Blatant disrespect, including personal attacks, will not be tolerated.

[Mermaid Wesley]

Member Wesley:
I am personally offended and upset by this discussion. Here are a few things:
Tons of mermaids are religious. This is plain rude.
My religion and science are interconnected. Don't forget how many civilizations have been convinced that an advanced technology was magic when confronted with it. I am a die hard science fan but if there is one thing I know about science, most of the time people DO NOT KNOW why things happen. That's why science exists. Science doesn't invalidate religion just like religion doesn't invalidate science.
Militant atheism is the reason I refused to call myself an atheist back when I didn't have a religion.
Why do you give half a shit what other people believe? Get on your high horse and ride away.

Ok. I'm done.

[Adalira]

To both member Wesley and mod Wesley :clap: Thank you for that, i was feeling the exact same way. Thank you for your words.

[Mermaid Mystery]

yeah, this has gone past banter and went straight into bashing.

[Mermaid Lilium]

I'm not trying to bash anyone's religion, at least that's not my intention. My thing is kinda 'each to their own', and, when explaining why I'm anti-theist the Stephen fry clip explains where I stand with it.

To me, in my own personal opinion religion alongside money, is one of the worst things ever invented by man, responsible for more genocide (physical murder or cultural), misogyny and hateful intolerance than anything else in human history. But to state my opinion means I'm apparently bashing others or attacking them.

I can't give someone else the freedom to have and express their opinions and their faith without me simultaneously having the right to my own, and the right to say their opinion is wrong or stupid, just like they can about mine.

Everyone fights for the rights and protection of religion, but always seems to forget about the rights of atheists.

Yes, I am an angry atheist and I have my reasons. I was a Christian, dad was a vicar when I was growing up and nowadays mum is training as a preacher in the Methodist Church. Even having been involved in 'normal' Christianity, I personally felt the moment that the brainwashing/conditioning broke.

That moment made me angry even at those normal low level religious institutions. I've learned to keep that to myself for the most part but hey if being pissed about it, and in particular if being pissed at even the concept of a God who can let people die of things like throat cancer, like I watched happen to one of the nicest men on the planet, well if that makes me a bad person, or bashing others beliefs so be it.

They have their rights and I have my right to be angry and explain why, just like people who tell others about their faith (often in the hope of converting them).

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[Echidna]

While I agree totally with the "magic and science are intertwined and sometimes just different words for the same thing"-sentiment (as I've already lined out in a different thread for spiritual mers), and I see how this discussion might appear rude to religious people, I'm not sure that must result in a gag for atheists here.

If you're religious, why come to this thread and be offended by what is (unsurprisingly) said?
Isn't that like a meat eater going into a veggie thread and stating they're offended because their lifestyle choices aren't accepted, or vice versa?

I haven't seen an atheist coming into one of the dedicated christian threads either.
(This is generally speaking, I know the mods read the thread for moderating purposes.)

[SeaGlass Siren]

When people die, they're dead. They cease to exist. Lighting incense is silly. In reality it does nothing. You know it. Your parents know it. The cognitive dissonance abounds.

Kind of like prayer; trying to bend the will of an omnipotent deity who has already predetermined the outcome (ergo; prayer is redundant). Its a way to do nothing and still think you're helping. It's a futile act.

Yes I know that :P my parents do it to please their parents. But if it doesn't do any harm there's nothing wrong in it. We only do it every once a year for memorial almost like when people gather around for a memorial for a friend or family member. It's something they would've wanted. (We are actually allergic so we try to find ways to avoid it)

theres literally no difference between lighting incense annually and lighting up a candle to remember loved ones

[SeaGlass Siren]

Aaaand I've only read the rest now :P thanks for that echidna and Wes.


annwyn..... I think you need to bibbityboppity back the eff up. You've been extremely rude and I literally do not deserve this.

bowing out.

[malinghi]

If you do it for remembrance or respect then performing the act is truly useless. You can just remember a dead person in your brain.

Whether you're religious or not, it's untrue that an act that provides comfort to someone in grief is useless.

And while you are welcome to express your opinion, telling people how they should and should not cope with loss is the sort of thing people are talking about when they say that you should express yourself in a way that does not come across as insulting.

[AniaR]

Yeah it is getting a bit hateful with the religion/spiritual bashing lately. This is a mermaid forum. Mermaids should be able to come here and not feel like some members think they're idiots, feel hated, or alienated. There's expressing an opinion and having a chat but I think it has escalated. Perhaps start a group chat in FB or something with like minded people.

All I know is the pro religious threads on here ( I think there's really just the one) don't bash anyone else , make judgemental posts of other members, or do anything that could be seen as hostile.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Bonnie]

I am an atheist as well. I know this is a super old thread but I found it using the search tool. Whenever I join a hobby group be it steampunk, potters, etc; I always like to seek out a few atheists. In my area it is such a rare thing that it's like I already have quite a bit in common with a new person if we have that one thing in common. This is my first forum rather than a facebook group so forgive me if I'm clumsy about it.

[Mermaid Kelda]

Hi Bonnie, don't worry about being clumsy! You'll get used to using forums sooner than you think :)
It's okay to post in old threads if you're adding something new or important. Since this thread is for atheists to introduce themselves and chat, you're welcome to post.

Welcome to MN! Be sure to introduce yourself here so we can all meet you properly!
http://mernetwork.com/index/forumdisplay.php?7-Introduce-Yourself

[Merman Storm]

Now that I see this thread, I too will report in as an atheist Mer.

[Finnley]

This is a pretty old thread, But why not :P

I'm currently Agnostic. I've tried converting to Paganism but it didn't quite work out, But i still love the religion.
I used to be an Atheist, so i still have the mindset of one, But i can't 100% say that there's no god(s) out there.

I was raised Christian, But never fully called myself one.