The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies

[MermaidMichelle]

Despite it being disturbingly lacking in mermaids, I just saw the finale of The Hobbit trilogy. Has anyone else seen it yet?

As the answer is quite possibly "no" still, I shan't offer any spoilers save to mention that one scene of Thorin's stubbornness evoked the image of a certain empowering sequence from Disney's Frozen, and that inspired me to write this:

Let It Go (The Battle of Five Armies)


Thorin: “The snow blows white o'er the mountain tonight,
A king's under it again.
It was guarded by a dragon,
But it looks like he's been slain.
Laketown is burning like this blazing fire inside;
Couldn't keep him in, Heaven knows we tried.


Don't let them in, don't let them see;
'Cause this treasure is all just for me!
I feel they'll steal
The Arkenstone
From my new home!”


Thorin's Conscience: “Let it go...let it go....
This is the fabled Dragon's Curse....
Let it go...let it go....”
Thorin: “Well, I'm rich now; it could be worse!
And I don't care what the dwarves will say;
I've got new friends now....
The gold never bothered me, anyway!


It's funny how some riches make everything else pale,
And I really don't give a darn 'bout the stupid men of Dale!


It's time to see just what we've got;
We must strike the iron while it's hot!
No right, no wrong
No rules I'll need...
But greed!”


Thorin's Conscience: “Let it go...Let it go....”
Thorin: “We must build the barricade high!”
Thorin's Conscience: “Let it go...Let it go....”
Thorin: “We'll never flee or fly!
Here we'll stand, and here we'll stay.
Let the armies come....

< Bridge (through the Fourth Wall) >
Enemies burst now from the air and through the ground.
CGI monsters made from tiny fractals now abound!
And all I can think of amidst this glory past:
I'll never give it up! The treasure's mine at last!”


Thorin's Conscience: “Let it go...Let it go....”
Thorin: “I'll not part with a single coin!”
Thorin's Conscience: “Let it go...Let it go....”
Thorin: “But I'll rally Kili and Gloin!
For I still am of the line of Thrain!
Let the war rage oooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnn!
The gold never bothered me anyway!”

[Toxotes]

I have seen it, too.
Peter Jackson did a great job again.

[Aziara]

Very clever! I saw it too, and darn my pregnancy hormones, the death scenes had me sobbing:cry:

[Echidna]

I'm boycotting it.
What Jackson did in the first two parts (which I watched for the dragon's sake, of course) was already hard enough to bear.
With all that stuff he made up just to make the movie more "hollywood-esque" and cram in unneeded non-stop action, goofy silly idiocy (Bombur killing dozens of orcs while jumping around in a barrel anyone?), and eye-jarring CGI, he could just as well have made a completely independent movie, call it "The jingbamadings of Dumbo Dabbins" and mention it was loosely inspired by the Hobbit.

So, I'm definitely not watching this trainwreck further.

I also regret watching the first two, because Smaug does not only look clumsy and stupid, but suffers from the ignominious fate almost all Hollywood dragons suffer from:
a cartoonish, silly face with ape-like grimaces.

They seem to be incapable of making an intelligent, non-mammalian being that does not look like a monkey parading as a reptile.

[Merman Chatfish]

If you read the book it takes less time than the 3 movies combined.

[Vrindavana Starfish]

I'm going tomorrow!

As a filmmaker and writer and lover of the books, I have no problems with the alterations in the movies. I know lots of people will boo hiss me for this, but I don't care. I think the things that have been added are in alignment with the world of Middle Earth, which does not and has never existed in a vacuum. People speak Elvish. They do this because they built off of what Tolkien started, and he built off of other languages. Middle Earth is a living, breathing world and I love PJ's contributions to it.

As for the bit of romance between the elf and dwarf "not being realistic," what about human-elf romances (Aragorn and Arwynn), or the dwarf-elf bromances (Legolas and Gimli) that have already been established in the books? I think it's legit.

I like Smaug a lot and thought he was well done. I am not a fan of the high-frame-rate though. I'd prefer 24 fps. It's a fantasy, it should feel different, and the realism of the HFR makes it harder for me to suspend my disbelief.

But, I'm psyched to see it!

[Echidna]

I think the things that have been added are in alignment with the world of Middle Earth

including an Istari, who was changed from Gandalf's equal to a "funny" person covered in bird poo in a chariot drawn by rabbits?

You must have a "special" definition of the world of Middle Earth, then.

Have fun watching it, though.
It's definitely easier to get by if you happen to be the target audience.

[Vrindavana Starfish]

I thought this would be good to leave here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxgsxaFWWHQ

My definition of Middle Earth is "is a living, breathing world" that "does not and has never existed in a vacuum." If that's "special," then I guess, yeah. I have a special definition. And as someone who has a master's degree in mythology and it's permutations throughout cultures and times, I'm totally cool with stories not remaining static.

Also, having worked on several films, and written a screenplay adaptation of another well-loved epic story, I know just how maddeningly difficult it is to translate ideas to screen, and how miraculous it is to get any movie made because it's a nightmare of logistics, even with 24 Epic Red cameras and the budget for all of that. The Hobbit movies are not on par with LOTR, but in my opinion, neither was The Hobbit book as interesting and thrilling as the trilogy, but I don't love it any less.

Having a powerful wizard so in love with his role protecting the forest animals that he doesn't even notice that he's covered in birdshit and has a badass sleigh drawn by bunnies (killer bunnies, with sharp, pointy teeth!) was one of my favorite parts. This guy is serious about his creatures, and even in the book he was a bit loopy from the time he spent away from any kind of civilization. It worked for me. I did miss Tom Bombadil in LOTR, but again, having written a screenplay, some things don't carry over. Also, Sauron was an Istari too, who just turned into a shit, and wasn't just covered in it. Being Istari doesn't guarantee that you don't become a goof or an ass, apparently.

So, basically, I'm a movie lover and a fan of all things Middle Earth. I guess that does make me the target audience. That means I will have SO MUCH FREAKING FUN tomorrow night. :)

[MermaidMichelle]

I hope you'll enjoy it, Vrindana, and thank you for the video! :mermaid kiss:

Echidna, I do feel that Smaug is lacking in a few areas (such as limbs!) too, and know how difficult/impossible it is to effectively translate human spoken language into reptilian/saurian/avian forms. I actually wrote a novel-length story accompanied by a language of dragonkind I created when I was 16. It was a bit like (and unintentionally a bit composed of) Ancient Hebrew yet couldn't have consonants such as m or v and had f and pr sounds quite different from that to which humans are accustomed due to the dragons' lack of lips. The key, I found, was to ensure that all of that deep-throating grumbling, purring, and squawking meant something; thus the dragons were shown to be intelligent creatures without having to sound like famous British actors and look like they're speaking with only the tips of their mouths.

Aziara, thank you very much! :mermaid kiss:

[Echidna]

I actually wrote a novel-length story accompanied by a language of dragonkind I created when I was 16. It was a bit like (and unintentionally a bit composed of) Ancient Hebrew yet couldn't have consonants such as m or v and had f and pr sounds quite different from that to which humans are accustomed due to the dragons' lack of lips. The key, I found, was to ensure that all of that deep-throating grumbling, purring, and squawking meant something; thus the dragons were shown to be intelligent creatures without having to sound like famous British actors and look like they're speaking with only the tips of their mouths.

awesome concept!

I always imagined dragons (among other non-humanoids) to use telepathy when talking to other species.
There are some ancient chinese myths which strongly indicate that (for example, when the dragons speak with a "resonant voice which seems to come from everywhere", and underwater at that).

As to the Hobbit movie, the voice of Smaug didn't bother me, actually I liked it.
The animated "face" of a non-mammalian, however...
Once you notice it, you can never unsee it :(

If you know Dinotopia (the 2 full length movies), it's awesome, but that one garrulous nerd dinosaur with rolling bulging eyes and stupid grins almost killed the entire thing for me lol.

I realize this is done to get the point across to humans that "hey, that may be a reptile but he's nice and friendly, see, he even has the facial expressions of a human!!", but to me it just looks silly.

[MermaidMichelle]

One of the spells in the Dragon Tongue is oft-used as one of telepathy, which is how the dragons in my book communicate with humans who are not fluent in their language. I didn't want the dragons to use telepathy exclusively, however, to give the impression that dragons had invented such things as language long before humans.

I have seen the first Dinotopia film and the series and entirely get what you are saying.... :mermaid kiss:

[Vrindavana Starfish]

awesome concept!

I always imagined dragons (among other non-humanoids) to use telepathy when talking to other species.
There are some ancient chinese myths which strongly indicate that (for example, when the dragons speak with a "resonant voice which seems to come from everywhere", and underwater at that).

As to the Hobbit movie, the voice of Smaug didn't bother me, actually I liked it.
The animated "face" of a non-mammalian, however...
Once you notice it, you can never unsee it :(

If you know Dinotopia (the 2 full length movies), it's awesome, but that one garrulous nerd dinosaur with rolling bulging eyes and stupid grins almost killed the entire thing for me lol.

I realize this is done to get the point across to humans that "hey, that may be a reptile but he's nice and friendly, see, he even has the facial expressions of a human!!", but to me it just looks silly.

Like Jar-Jar Binks? Otherwise known as the most annoying character ever? I agree that dragons would probably be telepathic.

And Michelle, your novel sounds awesome! And I loved your song re-write :)

[Miyu]

Off-topic a bit, but: YAY! DINOTOPIA! Still one of my favorite book series of all time, I just adore the entire thing.

I, too, am often disappointed by the CG dragons... I really don't understand why filmmakers don't use the whole "telepathy" thing much, especially since the vast majority of people accept that it's likely dragons would be telepathic, or have the ability to be? On that note, I'd really like to see something decent done with the whole Dragonriders of Pern series, as they feature dragons that communicate mostly through telepathy.

I'll watch all these Hobbit movies someday, but I do feel a bit upset that it got drawn out into another trilogy... I could understand two movies, but this seems likes it's stretching it a bit. I could the The Silmarillion taking up another trilogy someday, which I would like to see personally... Though of course there are always things I'm going to disagree with how Peter Jackson decided to interpret them, I have ever since the first LotR film.

[Satine Mermaid]

I work at a theater! I should sing it haha

[Echidna]

I'll watch all these Hobbit movies someday, but I do feel a bit upset that it got drawn out into another trilogy... I could understand two movies, but this seems likes it's stretching it a bit.

It wouldn't have been a trilogy (maybe not even 2 movies) if Jackson hadn't put in loads and loads of stuff he made up completely.
I didn't mind the scenes where he put in things that are mentioned in other books (like the Council ones), but those Jackson made up from thin air because he thought it'd make the movie more palatable for the...er...average audience.
Apart from the names of the characters, there is not much left that is reminiscent of the book.

Even if I weren't a fan of Tolkien, I'd find that highly disrespectful.
It's as if Jackson says "Nevermind what that dude wrote, I'm a better storyteller than him".
It's the equivalent of taking a beautiful classical painting, doodling all over it with finger paint, and going "now it'll appeal more to the viewers of today!".

And please don't bring the "adaptability on screen"-argument.
This doesn't apply here, like, at all.
The things Jackson added to bloat the movie were to me actually boring.
He left out passages I was looking forward to, just to put in the hundredth lame mega orc army CGI battle.
I know there's people who love CGI and armies and explosions, but I have a hard time to stay awake if that is stretched out over 3 hours.


As to Zippo; he's not quite the JarJar Binks of Dinotopia, but the way he was animated is one of the worst cases of humanocentrism I've ever seen (was also quite bad in Dragonheart)

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[Vrindavana Starfish]

Ok I freaking loved Dragonheart.

[Echidna]

I liked it too, but it would have been even better if the dragon had looked like a dragon, and not a mutated ape :p

26041

I rest my case.

[Vrindavana Starfish]

Hahaha!

I have excellent taste and bad taste. I make apologies for neither. :)

I watched Dragonheart on VHS so many times the tape broke. So I bought another copy, and my sister was so sick of it that she went Office Space on it and crushed it to pieces.

[AniaR]

Ermagerd I loved dragonheart

[Vrindavana Starfish]

For those of us who can't get enough of smarmy dragon faces:

http://laughingsquid.com/stephen-colbert-interviews-the-fearsome-fictional-dragon-smaug-from-the-hobbit-films-on-the-colbert-report/

[Echidna]

Ye know, it's totally possible to make a reptile appear sophisticated and intelligent (in human eyes) without making it look like a muggle.

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[MermaidMichelle]

OK, that actually dovetails surprisingly well into what I was about to mention, at least when one considers that my red dragon Dreafar has been described as "a cross between Smaug and President Coin from The Hunger Games: Mockingjay" (very fitting for this season's box office...lol)

Back in 2007 I started (yet never entirely finished) a "How to Draw a Dragon" series on YouTube, and the subject was the leader of the most prominent organization of dragons in my fantasy world: those of the Wyrmroost Mountains (which, needless to say, has been compared to both the Lonely Mountain and District 13). Her name is Dreafar, which I coined back when I was 17 (around when I first saw Dragonheart, which I also quite like) and which means "Dream/vision of Fire" in the Dragon Tongue of which I previously wrote.

Here is one of the parts of the video. If you click on "show more" you can read an excerpt from the novel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XePAG-PoWo

Oh, and the name of the fantasy world is Kazdrea ("Greater Vision"). In Kazdrea, dragon trains you!:jawdrop::hail::surrender:

Oh, and thank you so much, Satine Mermaid! :mermaid kiss: Do let us know/film a video if you do sing it....The web could always use more versions of "Let It Go"...lol

[Vrindavana Starfish]

I just came back from The Hobbit and it was the best of the 3. It was amazing.

[Echidna]

Oh, and the name of the fantasy world is Kazdrea ("Greater Vision"). In Kazdrea, dragon trains you!

:lol: I like that!

Like with mermaids (or other "fantasy" creatures), their real appearance is obviously down to imagination and preference.
People have always embellished and added to their folklore tales, so the image of dragons (and other things) has changed over time, with the biggest alterations happening during the Middle Ages (when the former strictly serpentine dragons suddenly were shown with legs and sometimes wings).

This is if you view the whole thing as fantastic and imaginary.

I take a different approach; I try to get to the earliest and most original descriptions, because I'm interested in the reality behind the myth, and not the fantasy that was developed out of it in later times.
(That goes for all mythologic things, but dragons have a special place in my heart.)

The word from which dragon derives meant "giant serpent, watersnake".
Up to the Middle Ages, the words "dragon" and "serpent" (aka, large snake) were interchangeable.

Add to that one of the oldest known images of a dragon (the draco constellation itself), and you can see what ancient peoples originally envisioned dragons to look like:
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This coincides with images of Asian dragons, seaserpents, lindworms, and other creatures that apparently were once real but have since disappeared, probably due to pollution, destruction of habitat, and human cull.

(Note that the dragon is a sign of the Chinese Zodiac, which features 12 animals, 11 of them real.
It's clear that in ancient times, the dragon was a real creature too.)

[MermaidMichelle]

Thank you very much, Echidna! :mermaid kiss: My first name is Tiamat (people often call me Tia or Tia Michelle), so you may safely assume that I am interested in the origins of dragons, too; mythologically, my namesake was responsible for the earliest dragons and the earliest mermaids!

As for confirmable real-world dragons of legend, I am especially intrigued by the Seraphim ("fiery serpents"). Lamentably the Red Dragon of Revelation and other such infernals are real, but as Seraphim are servants of God then it is quite possible that the Devil and his minions have taken dragon form (and thus given dragons a bad name) because it literally comes naturally to them....

[Mermaid Sirenia]

I agree with disliking the additional characters put into the movies. However, I still loved all the movies. I cried MG eyes out during the entire BOTFA as my dad sat and laughed at me. And then I forced him to stay at the end so I could sob to myself while listening to Billy Boyds "The Last Goodbye" Tolkien and his stories are forever in my heart. I have grown up with these movies and books and will love them all til the day I die :) I think what I liked least about the film was the orcs. In the LOTR films the orcs were created with makeup and looked amazing, and even years later they're still seen as well done and will continue to look that way due to it being just incredible makeup art. Whereas the orcs in The Hobbit were simply special effects and years in the future will be seen as bad effects, I just preferred the original orcs!

[MermaidMichelle]

I agree with you regarding the orcs (one reviewer stated that it felt too much like an animated film at times), and also :mermaid kiss: you being so wonderfully sensitive; it seems to be something of a dying trait! I remember hearing Billy Boyd sing "The World Ahead" in Return of the King​ and thinking to myself, "I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a recording contract!"

[Mermaid Kelda]

The Hobbit was the book I learned to read on, and it holds a special place in my heart. I don't think I want to dislike the films, so I view them as two stories loosely based on the same idea :P

In any case, I agree about the special effects. I don't know if it's just my TV, but I walked into the living room a while back and saw what I thought was a children's animated cartoon. I asked what it was and was dismayed to learn it was the second Hobbit (which I had yet to see at the time). Honestly, it was awful :\ the shots of real footage were fantastic, what with all their fancy schmancy cameras, but couldn't they have tried to match the calibre of the CGI in LotR? Its effects are still fantastic today.

[Echidna]

The Hobbit was the book I learned to read on, and it holds a special place in my heart.

same.
I read it til it fell apart, and then I bought a new one.
I can still cite whole passages and pages by heart.

As to effects, you don't need CGI for many things.
In fact, much will look better without.

Just think of original Star Wars (before Lucas put all that CGI in 30 years later), to me, all of that looked tons better than most modern stuff.
Same goes for other classic movies from the 60s and 70s.

[Mermaid Kelda]

Oh, absolutely. Like Sirenia mentioned, the make-up was so much better than the CGI in the LotR films. Even so, I don't get how they could have done so much worse with the CGI on the Hobbit :\

I do wish people would stop relying so much on CGI in every film though, when it can be done with make-up and costuming. Things feel so much more real when they're shot on the same film as the actor. People somehow tend to be more creative when they have physical limits, too!

[Vrindavana Starfish]

Meliana, you weren't the only one inspired to write a Middle Earth/Frozen song :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wNnbMCrtZg#t=114

[MermaidMichelle]

Wow! That was a quality production, though I'm not surprised as I quite enjoyed their Hunger Games one a year or so ago!

The multiple appearances of the phrase "let it go" in the Lord of the Rings trilogy do beg for this sort of thing. What inspired me to write one for The Battle of Five Armies was the scene with...


SPOILER:


Thorin throwing away his golden crown in the heart of his new palace. However, I haven't the means to make of it a video like that!

[Mermaid Kelda]

Meliana
That is neither mine nor Michelle's name, but it was​ Michelle who wrote the parody ;)

[Vrindavana Starfish]

Wow! That was a quality production, though I'm not surprised as I quite enjoyed their Hunger Games one a year or so ago!


Didn't really know about them before, but I caught a glimpse of the behind the scenes, and saw that they had the budget for a Red camera and studio set. Totally jealous over here. It was very well done.

[Floppus]

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