Selkish's Ratchet Workshop

I'd like to start by saying this is all Wesley's fault. Followed by PearlieMae's. Yes. I'm calling you out. I want a hand-written apology, deposited in my locker, before 3 o'clock today along with $25 in Hot Topic bucks. Additionally, I want control over ALL of the girl's bathrooms from the east-bank locker to the second floor. And two trees in the quad.

Sorry, that kinda got away from me, there. What were we doing? Oh yeah, tailmaking.

So *ahem* inspired by Wesley and PearlieMae and other mers on their lovely tailmaking escapades, I suddenly woke up from a fever dream of sugarplums and seaweed to find my amazon account had somehow ordered Monster Clay ALL ON IT'S OWN! Whaaaaat? Nooo, whaaaa?

Anyway. I just got out of college like, a couple months ago. I don't do the whole fully independent human adult thing so I don't have the space to hold an entire leg mold and scale sheets and whatnot. So I've opted to do an individual scale method because I can put that s#!t in baggies and stuff when I need it out of the way (until the leg mold... we'll uhm... burn that bridge when we get to it.)

Frankly I'm hoping making this thread will keep me accountable rather than do the thing that New Years Resolutions do where you tell people you're going to stop small woodland elves because they're just way too high in calorie but then the act of telling people and them congratulating you was just so rewarding you feel like you already stopped eating small woodland elves and you never get around to doing it because TINY WOODLAND ELVES ARE SO TASTY.

http://mernetwork.com/index/attachme...id=35051&stc=1

Oh you thought I was talking about like... people.

Lol you're welcome. It's gonna be RAD


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"I'd like to start by saying this is all Wesley's fault. Followed by PearlieMae's. Yes. I'm calling you out. I want a hand-written apology, deposited in my locker, before 3 o'clock today along with $25 in Hot Topic bucks. Additionally, I want control over ALL of the girl's bathrooms from the east-bank locker to the second floor. And two trees in the quad"

Rub a lamp!

You are making me unpack brain cells I haven't used in decades. Locker? Quad? HOT FREAKIN' TOPIC? Come on, you can dream bigger than that!

And if you take two jackets and those acidwashed jeans that are never coming back in style out of your closet, you can hang your tape dummy in there.

Fluke mold can go under your bed, but you're gonna have to clean there first, like your mom's been nagging you to do.

:rollover:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PearlieMae

And if you take two jackets and those acidwashed jeans that are never coming back in style out of your closet, you can hang your tape dummy in there.

Fluke mold can go under your bed, but you're gonna have to clean there first, like your mom's been nagging you to do.

:rollover:

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(also hi Pearlie, it occurs to me I've never actually talked to you and now I'm demanding retribution... :$ ) Anyway, I'll find space, though dust is an issue. It's good to know I'll probably be able to keep the legs in the closet.

Wow... that's a sentence I didn't think I'd ever write.

Hahahaha! That whole exchange gave me an excellent laugh. :)

Good luck with the tail, I'll be keeping tabs!

(And I wonder if fevered somnambulism has anything to do with ordered monster clay.)

;)

So an ongoing issue I've been having with color schemes. As a historical costumer, I get REALLY nitpicky about accuracy. The problem here is... well, mermaids aren't real... Or at least, not to the point where I can be accurate to something for it. So I'm getting fussy about coloring on a different level. I want it to look "natural" with my skin tone (tannish with yellow undertones) but also stand out and look striking. I made a kind of template in Adobe Illustrator in the hopes of helping visualize. You can see a lot of my fickleness with fluke design too.

I'm going through a lot of color scheme ideas:

Attachment 35072

like... a lot
Attachment 35073

Liiiike... a lot

Attachment 35074

(the reference pic was the inspiration to the first color scheme, I decided I probably didn't need so many colors)

Then I read Rescue Sirens: Search for the Atavist and thought Nim's tail would be awesome.
Attachment 35075

Now I'm kinda liking a precious metals inspired tail. I don't wanna go full orange really so this would be gold based.
Attachment 35076

Buuuut then I started loving that teal patina and playing with the idea of a metallic tail with a teal patina on the sides so I added rose gold. I'm hoping to make the patina glow in the dark too.

Attachment 35070

Attachment 35069

Attachment 35071

I am having a little trouble visualizing the palette but I think this helps a bit. I want to do a darker bronze along the back and then to a brighter rose gold along the hips into a yellow/white gold on the tummy. This. Will. Change. What I do know is that I want to kind of avoid a very orange tail, they seem kinda common, and I'm trying to avoid a lot of blue as it tends to disappear in the ocean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sabrina the Selkie

Hahahaha! That whole exchange gave me an excellent laugh. :)

Good luck with the tail, I'll be keeping tabs!

(And I wonder if fevered somnambulism has anything to do with ordered monster clay.)

;)

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actually though, it might have more to do with the fierce determination that comes from a couple of glasses of wine...

OOhhhh. That teal/copper dress was my inspiration too. I already love your take on it. :) Welcome to the Individual Scale Tail Dark Side. I see you brought cookies!

Wow so much progress in one day! What are you thinking Selk? Oh yeah, I totally cheated, I've been working on this for like, a while as far as the planning stages. I didn't pull down the clay until yesterday though... so there's that.

I've been thinking about scale patterns as well, while I settle on a color scheme. I know I wanted to do something that was somewhere between "ooh fancy fantasy creature" and "yeah, that thing belongs in the water." So I turned to my good ol' buddy research. I'm not a fan of the super uniform, rounded edges that some other brands do. I've also found I wanted something a bit thicker and less detailed than FinFolk's scales or even Pearlie Mae's shell-scales (nothing against either of those it's just personal preference.) I was worried about my scales being a bit visually busy. In fact, I was noticing that I was thinking of scales as being very vertical but most fish have very horizontal scales:

http://mernetwork.com/index/attachme...id=35084&stc=1

that definitely modified my idea of how I was going to make my scales. I went to hang out with Mermaid Wesley a couple days ago as I kicked this idea around in my head. Using her rejects, I started fiddling with more ideas.

Attachment 35085

Hrm... too pointy...

Eventually I actually took Wesley's advice and made a model out of paper. I think I like this scale shape though people keep saying it looks like a pinecone, which I'm not sure I'm happy about.

Attachment 35086

Buuut I liked how it looked and I'm impatient HERE ARE SOME PICTURES NOW.

Attachment 35087
first scale!


Attachment 35088

Attachment 35089

Attachment 35090

I decided the scales were too pointy once I layered them over each other. I calmed down the ridge to make 'em less stripey.
Attachment 35091Attachment 35092

Oh wait look! I added a thingie for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3ZqH2YzaM0

Also my cat just decided to walk all over everything so no I get to modify the scales to have less... kitten paws on them.

Yay! The more dull ridges do help de-stripe-ify it.


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I'm a little confused about what you mean by most fishes having horizontal vs. vertical scales...

She means that scales tend to look wide instead of long.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theobromine

I'm a little confused about what you mean by most fishes having horizontal vs. vertical scales...

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When you look along a fish's body, the way you'd attach a human torso to the fish tail, their scales look more wide than long. most of the scales I was doodling and working with looked long rather than wide making the design look somewhat reptilian. Idk, it's just a preference for me.

Moving onto smaller scales because I couldn't sleep. Of course, that's not the case for some.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...d3a44ef411.jpg

Anyway, how the smaller scales might fit with the larger ones.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...09b9147ecb.jpg


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Your scales kinda remind me of Placoid scales ^_^

Exciting progress! I love the fluke design of your first two templates!

Ok, I guess I was just confused by your wording, then.

Attachment 35097

Maybe you were thinking of ganoid scales? They're not the most common scale type though (restricted to primitive fishes such as sturgeon, gar, paddlefish, bichirs, etc.) Cycloid and ctenoid scales are found on teleosts (higher-order bony fish) so they're the ones that I thiiink most people are familiar with. They overlap like shingles (see the pictures you posted above); pretty much all tailmakers who are going for a fishy look as opposed to some other type of animal are approximating these scales, but you're right, many people make them look far too rounded. Following that line of thought, something else to keep in mind is that the part of the scale that we actually see isn't the majority of the thing. Take a look at how the whole structure looks, including where it grows out from the skin. Should give you a better idea of why scales look the way they do (and why foam circles don't look convincing, imho).

Attachment 35098

Ilyena's totally right btw, your clay scales do look like placoid scales (like dermal denticles on a shark).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theobromine

Ok, I guess I was just confused by your wording, then.

Attachment 35097

Maybe you were thinking of ganoid scales? They're not the most common scale type though (restricted to primitive fishes such as sturgeon, gar, paddlefish, bichirs, etc.) Cycloid and ctenoid scales are found on teleosts (higher-order bony fish) so they're the ones that I thiiink most people are familiar with. They overlap like shingles (see the pictures you posted above); pretty much all tailmakers who are going for a fishy look as opposed to some other type of animal are approximating these scales, but you're right, many people make them look far too rounded. Following that line of thought, something else to keep in mind is that the part of the scale that we actually see isn't the majority of the thing. Take a look at how the whole structure looks, including where it grows out from the skin. Should give you a better idea of why scales look the way they do (and why foam circles don't look convincing, imho).

Attachment 35098

Ilyena's totally right btw, your clay scales do look like placoid scales (like dermal denticles on a shark).

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Theobromine, thank you for putting all that out for me. <--- actually not sarcasm you put into words and pictures the issue I was having.

I may have been thinking of Placoid scales when I started designing mine too. My friend said they reminded her of Pike, so that makes some sense. I think the ridge was also an attempt to make that vague shield shape and give the scale some of the subtle texture we see as well (possible to be achieved through color but labor intensive.)

You're welcome! I was hoping that would be helpful. I'm a zoologist and an aquarist and I always think of fish biology in very technical terms and sometimes I forget that not everyone does :p so I thought I'd try to articulate it a little better. (I'm the kind of nerd who uses terms like teleost and caudal peduncle on a daily basis but has no idea why the Kardashians are famous. I had soooo many friends in high school...)

(Edit: also, when I first started hearing about Kardashians I though everyone was talking about Cardassians)

http://mernetwork.com/index/attachme...id=35099&stc=1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theobromine

You're welcome! I was hoping that would be helpful. I'm a zoologist and an aquarist and I always think of fish biology in very technical terms and sometimes I forget that not everyone does :p so I thought I'd try to articulate it a little better. (I'm the kind of nerd who uses terms like teleost and caudal peduncle on a daily basis but has no idea why the Kardashians are famous. I had soooo many friends in high school...)

(Edit: also, when I first started hearing about Kardashians I though everyone was talking about Cardassians)

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#lifegoals right there. I considered going into marine science but then someone pulled me aside and was like "there are no jobs, go do something else." So I switched to graphic design. I *would* love to be as technical as possible when building this tail, except for the fact that my art-eye was like "That looks weird" when I did the original shield scales. This is possibly because the thickness of the scale made it look fakey and round. It's nice to know at least I kinda followed one real kind of scale... even if it's shark.


And no one knows why the Kardashians are famous, it's why they're famous.

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Originally Posted by Selkish

#lifegoals right there. I considered going into marine science but then someone pulled me aside and was like "there are no jobs, go do something else."

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Speaking as someone with a master's degree and no job....can confirm. :anger explode:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Selkish

#lifegoals right there. I considered going into marine science but then someone pulled me aside and was like "there are no jobs, go do something else." So I switched to graphic design.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theobromine

Speaking as someone with a master's degree and no job....can confirm. :anger explode:

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Yes to both. I started off as a marine biologist. Then ended up with an MA in Irish mythology with every intention of being a professor, and then realized I hated teaching. Now I'm a video editor and day trader.

Those scales are looking really cool. Can't wait to see how this turns out!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vrindavana Starfish

Yes to both. I started off as a marine biologist. Then ended up with an MA in Irish mythology with every intention of being a professor, and then realized I hated teaching. Now I'm a video editor and day trader.

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The struggle is real. I loved both my degrees, but I still haven't found a single job that I've actually needed my master's degree for :P I spent a few years doing zookeeping/aquarist work, which is great, but in my case I also had bad luck with a string of sh!tty bosses and/or jobs in areas where I just wasn't happy living, then had some health issues blah blah after leaving those ended up just applying for an animal manager position at a local Petco just for the paycheck, had to leave my master's degree off my bloody resume even to get that. -_- But retail is not my bag so I ended up ragequitting and now I'm an artist :P The ironyyyyyy

Sorry to hijack your thread Selkish....um....if you need any advice on fish biology/anatomy/scientific accuracy and/or sculpting techniques feel free to ask.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vrindavana Starfish

Yes to both. I started off as a marine biologist. Then ended up with an MA in Irish mythology with every intention of being a professor, and then realized I hated teaching. Now I'm a video editor and day trader.

Those scales are looking really cool. Can't wait to see how this turns out!

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Thanks <3 I feel like I'm wandering around kinda blindly but I'm obviously not because I have everyone here to help point me in the right direction.

And not hijacking. I feel like a lot of Mers wanted to do the marine science thing and were turned off in the end. It's just sort of nice to hear that I made a good choice by not going 100% into that particular profession... Not too sure about the choice to move into art from there (for me.)

So back to tail sculpting, here's a comparison of the two scale sizes and thicknesses. The smaller ones are significantly thicker.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...87d4b8b1fb.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...b54bf5f534.jpg

Also because I keep posting pics of her, here's my kitty again

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...f204f762e4.jpg


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Kitty!

Well, personally, I'd recommend not making your scales very thick. I'd try to thin them out a little and also keep all the sizes at an even thickness. If you make them too thick you run the risk of having your tail end up way too heavy and cumbersome. You can always add more silicone on the back of the sheet/inside of the tail, but if you cast them too thick to begin with you can't really slice them in half with a cheese knife if you know what I mean. Also, thinner scales are more realistic.

Welp, I've done 20 small scales and 20 big ones..... Now I'm not too sure what to do next.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...684cae1de2.jpg

I don't know if I have the balls to try casting a mold next.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theobromine

Kitty!

Well, personally, I'd recommend not making your scales very thick. I'd try to thin them out a little and also keep all the sizes at an even thickness. If you make them too thick you run the risk of having your tail end up way too heavy and cumbersome. You can always add more silicone on the back of the sheet/inside of the tail, but if you cast them too thick to begin with you can't really slice them in half with a cheese knife if you know what I mean. Also, thinner scales are more realistic.

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I thinned down the small scales. You were right, I can always paint more silicone on.


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http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...c6aeb66ce9.jpg

Confronting the smooth-on. Halp


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Ahahaha that was probably the same expression I had when I was first about to experiment with this stuff.

The absolute best advice I can give you is start small, test, PRACTICE before starting your main project. It definitely feels intimidating but if you make just a few small molds and do some little test castings first. It will give you a lot more confidence and you'll be able to figure out what works and what doesn't, which will ultimately make your tail project better. Plus if you mess up at first you won't have to worry about wasting a lot of material. Make a small mold with just a couple scales in it, cast a handful of them, and try fitting them together to see how they look and feel. I mean, if you've looked at my thread, you can see the improvement from where *I* started :P We all improve with practice, just don't be afraid to get started.

Doing a test mold. It's cold and late so I'm not sure if it'll cure well at all...

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...64456c87c9.jpg

But holy shit! I'm doing science.


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Is that a clear resin you're using? Apologies if you said it before and I missed it, I'm kinda sleep deprived. Anyhoo, it looks good!

Attachment 35118

You guys. Science is kinda boring. Stupid 30 minute cure time

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...ff798e45ca.jpg


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I'm using smooth on 305 with a can of ease release 200


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Dangit, Matt Damon, you're so right. And hot. So right and hot.

As for waiting to cure...

http://mernetwork.com/index/attachme...id=35119&stc=1

Ooooooooooookay. So the mold seemed to work out without a hitch except:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...ccdfe48172.jpg

The EFFFFFF IS THIS TEXTURE? WILL LIBERAL APPLICATIONS OF SILICONE GET RID OF THIS? IT'S FROM THE DAMN BUBBLES I SAW AS THE MOLD WAS CURING GRRRRRRRRRRRR


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Actually, to me it looks like you may have just used too much mold release. How much did you spray on? Did you smooth it with a brush? The pattern of the indentations doesn't look like bubbles to me, but too much mold release (aka many tiny globs of grease) can definitely do that.

I haven't used that particular resin but if you look up the technical specs, it might give you some better ideas as well (i.e. moisture can cause bubbles in some resins). Anyway, at least you learned something! Aren't you glad you didn't come across that problem while molding a whole fluke?! SCIENCE IS AWESOME!!!

Lol, you're probably super right. I went a little heavy on the release. I popped some silicone into the molds to find out if it makes much of a difference in the end.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...fcc8f82947.jpg

I had some copper pigment and some pearly white I got while getting the mold materials. I figured it was a safe pigment to get considering all the colors I've been drawn to.