Nah, you didn't take my update hahaha you just conveniently did it for me! XDQuote:
Originally Posted by AniaR
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Nah, you didn't take my update hahaha you just conveniently did it for me! XDQuote:
Originally Posted by AniaR
Because of the reaction they're being met with right here. Mernetwork has become a place that, instead of helping people feel comfortable enough to make a review or video, cows them into submission and hiding for fear of being flamed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaidmechanic
Okay. I understand the frustration. I'm sure Raven's probably a really great person, and I know she puts a lot of work into those tails. They're all absolutely breathtaking.
I definitely agree that blatant lying is frustrating and wrong. Think of it this way, though: Raven's got hundreds (if not thousands) of people that have, love, and support her work, and I'm sure they all see that the review is a lie after they got the tail of their dreams through her business. She's become such a big tailmaker that this one review really isn't going to make or break her business, you know? I personally love all the tails she puts out and I hope she keeps making them for a long time.
Lorelei I apologise if you took my comment seriously :( it was just a joke like Raina said about past drama I didn't mean anything serious by it.
On that note I did ask for a link to the review to see but none has been supplied and at this point I don't really care anymore. All I have to go on is Raven being very upset because someone gave her an awful review and Raina whom I know to always be an exceptionally honest person saying it's full of lies. I like to think of Raven as my friend and I don't like it when people lie about and upset my friends.
I apologize if my comment was upsetting in anyway too- I think because we've got Raven on facebook we've seen how devastated she's been about this and I'm reacting to that more than anything.
which is why the actual review section doesnt allow comments. So people can post truthful reviews. But also why it requires proof of said reviews too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Lorelei
And I think an angry reaction is appropriate when people are lying. Honestly. It's no different than when tail makers would lie all over the place
I know this has to do with raven, but it seems less about merbella and merbella products and a bit more like drama? Maybe this belongs in the drama thread instead?
The video review in question has 1.1K views so far, so I have a feeling many of you have seen it.
Myself and other mods have gotten screen shots, provided by Raven, and can support the claims that are being made about this customer being untruthful about the details of her product and ordering process. Raven herself may chose to release these screen shots, but if not, at least for now I can say that there is actual proof to back this up.
Thank you, Iona! I wasn't sure about the whole thing.
Even so, it's just one person, and not even a famous one at that, I imagine. Raven has beautiful work, and those who continue to support her despite this review are the only ones she really needs.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It makes me sad that with Raven's stellar reputation so much effort has to go into clearing her name, and that so many would choose to believe the worst of her on FB. I appreciate when people don't like it when I stand up for her here, but I have watched my friend get trampled on time and time again, and I see that behaviour extending to other tail makers too. (lots of hateful comments toward finfolk in that video comments section too)
Raven's wait times are long. That's about it. Most people who have any complaint about her will tell you she offered to fix it, but they didn't want to ship their tails back. Raven was one of the first tail makers to stand up in the face of everything mertailor was doing and say no, that isn't how things can be done, I can do better, and our whole community changed for it. I know it's harder for newbies to see it but for those of us who have been around so long.
Raven sent this person a tail, to the measurements they were given, from a design they approved, with 3 extra gifts (bracer, scale heart, and hair clip). The person complained about the GIFTS while also claiming no gifts were sent. Critiquing the scale hearts (which are all just made from recycles pieces that she paints to match your tail as a way to give people a nice favour and cut down on waste). Claims she photo shopped the tail pictures (what would be the point of that, knowing the client would just freak out about "flaws") The tail was sent a little over a year, for far less money than she claims. (even less than what she adjusted her claim to).
I guess I just don't get why people would believe that to begin with. Why seeing a "review" like that wouldn't instantly raise flags. If Raven wanted to rip people off with cheap tails she'd be making factory ones with no customization or crazy designs or paint schemes. What does she gave to gain by making a tail for someone that beautiful, throwing in all these extra gifts, and then apparently intentionally sabotaging the tail???
I hope Raven does post her whole side with all her proof, but I also hope she tells everyone a good long list of the horrible things she's endured from people in the community, in order to make tails for them. I am not even talking about the multiple hospital visits for wearing herself out or toxicity from the materials curing. I mean all the straight up abuse that I always have to fight so hard to hold my tongue on. I hope it all just finally comes out and people start seeing tail makers as human beings.
/rant
On an unrelated note, I am loving the look f the double pectoral fins and I am glad Raven included those in my design. I am having a mixed emotional cocktail right now of joy, excitement, attempts at patience, patience, and fear.
I just want to recommend to anyone who's only seen one side of this review scandal to go look at the video as it's apparently been downloaded and plastered all over the internet.
You should be ashamed of yourselves, those who have spread this around and thrown your accusations over ONE negative Merbella review. Raven has taken her personal emails and receipts and shared them with those unrelated to the purchase or even legal case. It was never meant to be public and now, it is. The mer said several times in her video that she has nothing but respect for Raven and that this is just her OWN experience. She felt jilted, and after dreaming and waiting for so long, and spending $3,000 on a tail, anyone would. She has a right as a customer to post her review of the item she purchased. Everything negative she stated about her tail, she immediately backed up by pointing it out on the actual tail. I've lost all respect for Merbella and even her personal assistant whom I really had high hopes for, but who encouraged legal action because Merbella is the only reason she's famous. Anything negative reflecting on Raven she immediately feels reflects on her. I'm posting this here instead of the Drama thread, because apparently even Iona doesn't care anymore as long as certain mers post. This website is a joke. Any of you can say whatever you want of me. I can't have a lower opinion of those who would try to tarnish my reputation as you have attempted to do to this sweet mer. If I'm blocked or this is deleted because I'm not Raina and don't have the same privileges, so be it. I couldn't have a lower opinion of this site either. Good luck with your careers, as you obviously need more to do.
Sincerely,
Lotus
Christ on a bike, I can't keep up with all of this :|
I normally keep my opinions to myself when it comes to drama as I don't enjoy being involved, but I also believe in standing up for what's right and calling out injustice where I see it, and I have to say that I am completely and utterly appalled at the abusive behavior I have seen on display here.
First of all, I HAVE watched the review video and I have seen the tail's flaws for myself. It is very clear that none of the people on here jumping on the "omg poor innocent Raven, what a horrible thing to lie about!!" bandwagon have NOT actually watched the video or you wouldn't be singing this tune. Do any of you people actually even think for yourselves anymore? Or are you just so blind in your idolatry of Raven that you automatically assume, along with Raven's personal attack dog Raina, that anyone who posts a less than stellar review of a Merbellas tail MUST be a liar? Really, that's a legitimate question, because I'm dumbfounded by the thought processes (or lack thereof) going on here. Did any of you actually stop and THINK about the lack of actual evidence and that you're simply taking the accusations that Raina is tossing around on blind faith? Raina, who is known to be not only Raven's bff but her most ardent supporter who has repeatedly gone out of her way to make personal attacks on anyone who even suggests that Raven is anything less than a perfect miraculous amazing magical wonderful goddess? In fact, she's not even the only one who acts that way on here; I've seen more people than I can even shake a stick at describe Raven unironically as a goddess. Do any of you even realize how that makes you sound just like bleating sheep? Is it REALLY so difficult for people to accept that no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes, or are we really living in THAT much of a fantasy land?
Before you get all huffy at me, check yourselves, and (since Raina has already spread it all around the internet without permission) WATCH THE REVIEW VIDEO. Then try forming your own goddamn opinions for once. Because let me tell you, that tail is unbelievably horrible. It's not just about the paint scraping off after the first swim or all four ankle fins tearing even though the tail's owner is extremely careful with it. Every single one of the seams on that tail is hideous beyond belief. It doesn't take a genius to see how gloppy and sloppy the seams are, and how the paint job COVERS the sloppy silicone that's globbed between the scales, which should make it obvious to anyone who's not a complete idiot that the tail was constructed poorly. You don't get seams like that from "not knowing how to use a silicone tail properly". That is some hilarious bullshit and I hope anyone who actually believed that nonsense is really ashamed of themselves right now. ALL of the tail's flaws were specifically pointed out in the video so that anyone who watches it can see them. And even though the tail's owner was incredibly disappointed and heartbroken over the state of her dream tail, she made sure to point out SEVERAL times that she was not attacking Raven and that she thought Raven herself was a sweet person. She was simply pointing out the FACTS of her tail being extremely badly constructed.
And while we're on the subject of reviews, IT IS NOT A CRIME TO POST A NEGATIVE REVIEW OF A PRODUCT YOU HAVE PURCHASED. A person with a negative experience has just as much right to post a review as anyone else so that other people can be fully informed and make their own decisions. That. Is. The. Point. Of. Reviews. You don't go around doxxing and harassing people for posting negative reviews on Amazon. Or Yelp. Or Google. Or anywhere else. That is extremely petty, and really just suggests that you feel so threatened by people exposing your flaws that you're desperate to hide them rather than actually address them and try to fix them. You know who THAT reminds me of? Mertailor. You know, the guy who's notorious for covering up his shitty products and shitty customer service by deleting negative comments, bullying reviewers, and hurling accusations at customers rather than take one iota of responsibility for his mistakes. Congratulations everyone, you are enabling this exact same type of behavior and becoming the exact same type of fanclub that you all love to hate on so much.
And while we're on the subject of terrible behavior, did you guys even catch the part where Raina SENT CONFIDENTIAL CUSTOMER FINANCIAL INFORMATION SUCH AS INVOICES AND SENT THEM TO THE MERNETWORK MODERATORS?! Do ANY of you even have the slightest concept of what an enormous breach of privacy that is?? That's not only unethical, it's fucking ILLEGAL. Posting a negative review is never going to be grounds for legal action, but leaking confidential information sure as hell is. It also displays ZERO integrity on the part of either Raina, or Raven (who obviously felt it was appropriate to share that information with Raina in the first place). I personally have lost literally all respect I have ever had for either of them. I sure as hell would never EVER feel comfortable ordering a single thing from Raven, knowing that she is so cavalier about customer confidentiality. If I'm going to send thousands of dollars to someone I would want to feel COMPLETELY confident in the fact that they'd keep my private financial information PRIVATE. Jesus fucking christ, what a concept. Seriously. And if that wasn't enough, this is not even the first time that Raina and Raven have leaked a customer's private information for their own personal agendas. Do any of you remember the thread in which Mermaid Alexis was trying to sell her old partial Merbellas tail? Raina pulled the exact same thing on her, which she has as little right to do then as now. Most people in that thread even called her out on it, but she persisted and persisted and refused to see that she was being unethical and just plain mean. Many people in this thread just within the past day or two have commented that they've never seen any other negative Merbella reviews. Well, WHY do you think that is? Because not only do they get questioned, they get full-on attacked. I have multiple personal friends who have had very disappointing experiences dealing with Raven and getting poor quality products, and none of them feel comfortable even speaking up about it. People are literally afraid to speak up about their own experiences because they know they will get attacked. I predicted this would happen with this new review video, and lo and behold, it did. But you guys seriously think that just because you haven't SEEN any other negative reviews here before, that they're actually impossible? Well done, guys, you've advanced to Mertailor-level logic skills. *slow clap*
And while we're on the subject of terrible people, Raina clearly thinks it's acceptable to abuse people and misuse confidential information for her own personal vendettas, yet she is VERY outspoken when she perceives anyone else possibly doing the same. She is, in fact, one of the most hypocritical people I have ever encountered in my entire life and that's saying a lot. I have seen her bully people over and over and over again. She refuses to ever admit to any wrongdoing (though she pretends she does), she acts extremely superior towards almost everyone else (including anyone who has been registered on the forum for less time than she has). She is snarky and passive-aggressive and manipulative and she misrepresents facts and twist people's words to suit her own agenda. I've sat back and watched this go on for long enough, biting my tongue because I didn't want to stir things up, but I am completely fed up at this point. I am sick and tired of having to watch her abuse people and yet still have this huge army of people who eat up her every word without even bothering to take a step back and consider what she's actually saying. If you actually sit down and parse most of Raina's rants and bitches, none of her statements even make any sense. For example, she stampedes in here trumpeting that the video review in question was LIES, ALL LIES, yet she presents no actual evidence to support her claims. But everyone still automatically believes her, WHY? You didn't think that maybe it's actually Raven or Raina who are lying? That just because Raina is way more well-known around here than the other mermaid, she HAS to be the one telling the truth? News flash, it doesn't work that way. Also, the mermaid in question doesn't come on this forum not only because of the negative attitudes, SHE HAS A BUSINESS TO RUN. I always see Raina bleating about what a successful, famous, busy mermaid she is, yet she has always been one of the most active posters on this forum. I guess she just has nothing better to do than pick fights with other people. I really think that's a sign of extreme insecurity, honestly. It's sad. I'd continue to keep my opinions of her to myself if it weren't for the fact that her attitudes have been getting more and more toxic, and her behavior has gotten more and more destructive. She has alienated and driven away many of the best people and cowed the rest into submission and I just can't take it any longer. She has driven away some of her most supportive and understanding friends. I'm still astounded that so many people continue to be taken in by her, honestly. You have to be seriously obtuse not to notice just how destructive Raina is. She seems to just have this pathological need to tear other people down and I can't stand by and watch it happen. And Iona, I love you, but you have a serious blind spot where Raina is concerned. It's one thing to stand up for your friends, it's another thing to enable their terrible behavior. I would rather call people out on their shit rather than condone actions that hurt other people and weaken my community.
This community is no longer the positive, fun, supportive place I knew it to be. This forum has devolved into a mire of negativity, misinformation, and vitriol. It's fucking depressing and it makes me miserable. I've tried to stick around as long as I could stand to, but I'm completely drained from even trying to think about how to approach the shit that goes on here. Stubbornness and ignorance seem to be everyone's preferred methods of interaction, and I'm just completely disgusted by all of it. I think all of you who actually know me know that I do not hurl accusations around lightly, and that I DO sit back and observe and analyze all of the information before I make any rash decisions or statements. Well, this bullshit has pushed me to the brink. And not just me. Mermaid Lorelei, the most active and conscientious mod we've had in ages, literally just quit the forum over this. Congratulations everyone, you just drove away one of the most level-headed, intelligent, balanced, caring people I know. I hope you're all super proud of yourselves.
On that note, after seeing all this bullshit I had also decided to quit the forum. It was a hard decision at first but after spending the entire day agonizing about the state of things here, I realized I would be far happier leaving this place behind. I just wanted to make my last stand, for something I believe in: integrity. Anyway, if I have pissed anyone (or everyone) off, please feel free to ban/block/delete/whine about me because I literally give zero fucks anymore.
Bye!
The mermaid in question's friends have now started attacking my business as retribution, leaving fake reviews. Since they threatened me in the comments, I shouldn't be surprised.
Attachment 38148
Let see I stick to discreet facts, but sure, fight dirty, why not?
To those saying the sharing of information is wrong:
It is not illegal for a company to share any of their information at their discretion for the purpose of consulting, contracting, risk management, mentoring, or legal reasons. Dealing with a slanderous video is considered rick management,and only two admins were shown anything (not even the entirety either- only what Merbella's deemed necessary). While it’s not common knowledge I still help Merbellas out from time to time with their communication including drafting emails and information updates and as a contractor I have legal access to information and with written permission yes, I can legally share it. It’s literally in standard non-compete and standard business NDAs. I know this not just from working with them, but because I pay a lawyer a lot of money to manage what I share with my contractors as well and where that information goes. This isn’t a doctor’s office, there is no presumed client, tail maker confidentiality beyond the usual don’t give up someone’s credit card number. Most tail makers choose to keep information to themselves but when the client decides to slander them/libel them, it is fairly standard in most industries to provide evidence to counter it. No one seemed to have any issue with this when people were posting communications and information with mertailor. But again, nothing was posted. Merely provided to two mods for Mernetwork’s liability, and Merbellas risk management.
Mernetwork has always operated under the policy that when drama hits, you give your evidence with the understanding it will not be posted and only used under discretion to the mods/admin. That is standard and also gives mernetwork a safety net whenever anyone tries to come after the forum for slander/libel and also allows mernetwork to decide what risks to take in terms of what statements they allow to remain on the forum, if they should lock something, or if they should flat out remove it. Raven rarely is proactive when people slander her, she usually lets it go. But the claims in this video were so outrageous they felt it damaging to their company. Raven plans on making her own statement with her evidence on mernetwork, but originally due to her anxiety was not prepared to do that, hence why she delegated it to me to send to the mods
I'd be getting told of if I claimed these things and didn't give a mod proof.
I think it's really telling that the diversion tactic here is let's change the discussion to how we shouldn't be talking about this, instead of the fact someone is lying to extort someone else. Let's change this to pick apart someone else but totally ignore the actual law breaking going on (defamation).
If this was a mertailor situation, if he was lying about a client and the client was posting everything they had to argue him, you'd all be cheering.
I have abused no one, I have no personal vendetta against this person.Quote:
Raina clearly thinks it's acceptable to abuse people and misuse confidential information for her own personal vendettas,
LOL really? Gee I guess it wouldnt have anything to do with all the stuff I've done.Quote:
even her personal assistant whom I really had high hopes for, but who encouraged legal action because Merbella is the only reason she's famous
This is just sad you all have taken the bait. This is what happens, someone speaks out about lies, and instead of addressing said lies, you just try to discredit the one posting the truth. So maybe people will ignore the truth right? If you sling enough mud they wont be able to see it?
It all comes out in the end folks. Save face when it does.
I've pointed out the parts of the review that are lies. If that bothers you, you should look at the person making the lies.
PS it's not a crime to post a bad review, it's a crime to post one where you lie. Famously, people sue yelp reviewers all the time.
I also see the mermaid in question retracted a bunch of her statements after the fact (beig held accountable) and that someone else is pretending Im texting them from Canada to harass- a person known for making fake text screen shots. It costs so much money to text from Canada (though it's a cali area code) lol why would I bother with that? Why would I need to go to such lengths when the truth is already known?
It's kinda hilarious at this point TBH. I stick to facts- verified to be true, I didn't bring it to the forum. No name calling. I didn't link the video here, or post screen caps or anything. Just posted that it's untrue. But that justifies harassing my business page, name calling against me here, attacks against Iona too...
do you guys not see how F upped that is? I hope it's all worth it when you see the truth in the end. When you realize the people you aligned yourself with are only keeping you around for stuff like this, and then you get thrown under the bus. When the truth all comes out because it always does and I'm always still swimming, and I never regret standing up for what's right. No matter how many insults you throw at me, childish as they are.
Okay, so I commented from my phone and I guess the comment got deleted somehow, so let's try this again from my laptop and see if that'll work.
I was withholding judgement on the whole situation until I saw the evidence for myself, but seriously-- letting her friends threaten Raina with physical violence before Raina had even done anything? Letting them post fake reviews and attack her business when she didn't keep quiet?
I don't care who you are, that's bullshit whether you're "innocent" or not.
People are trying to tear Raina apart for "bullying" this mystery reviewer... But these same people have nothing to say about the reviewer siccing her friends on her to attack and THREATEN Raina and her business? Who's the "bully" here, really?
I trust Raina. She doesn't come out at people like this unless she has solid evidence-- that's always been the case since I've known her, so although I haven't seen the evidence from this particular incident myself, I'm willing to believe her and back her up. Raina has done nothing wrong here-- Handing screencaps of receipts and correspondences and whatever else to a small handful of people, privately, to back up claims or defend someone is neither "doxxing" nor illegal. It's also interesting that people are bitching about it being handled this way, whereas if Raven and Raina didn't share any of it for fear of being accused of this, they'd then be accused of lying because "they can't provide proof."
It's a bloody double-standard, and everyone with an ounce of sense knows it. Like Raina said-- nobody would be losing their minds over this if it involved outing someone they didn't like, like Mertailor or anybody else. But for some reason, people are freaking out because she's ~*slandering*~ this whoever-the-hell.
Certain people need to sit themselves down, Jesus. This crap is why a lot of the older crowd don't bother with the forums anymore.
^ I share the same sentiment that Tieri does.
I had a whole post, but deleted it, buecause Tieri said it best. LOL. I will say that leaving negative reviews on someones page to be hateful is an asshole move! I had some woman, whom I don't know and lives in a different country review my photography page as a 1. They were in a relationship with a photographer in this community so I think she had an ulterior motive by doing this.
I just wanna say to everyone who keeps saying 'watch the video' maybe post a link so I can maybe? I still can't find this thing haha. Then again I'm not really all that involved in mermaid stuff outside of the forum so I usually miss the drama there haha.
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Exactly! Someone needs to post the video or a link so others can watch it and have a fair opinion. I for the life of me cannot find it anywhere.
I would like to say, addressing the bad review stifling thing: that hasn't been my experience. When I first had some issues with my Merbells tail I was perfectly comfortable showing the community and asking Raina for advice. Same with my second tail. These were all issues that are unavoidable with silicone tails, but that I'd never experienced. I was expecting a silicone tail to be a magic perfect cure-all (it's not). And instead of attacking me (as some have insinuated would happen), everyone supported me and offered advice. In addition to which, Raven went above and beyond to fix any issues. And I MEAN above and beyond.
So I have a hard time believing that this reviewer is being attacked solely on the basis of a negative review and tailmaker loyalty. That has simply not been my experience.
I haven't seen the video nor the proof otherwise, nor do I really want to. Either way, it doesn't really matter to me what this person does. I'd rather let Raven fight her own battles, she's perfectly capable, but it's sad that people have let themselves get so worked up about this that they're leaving. It seems silly to me, more like they're leaving just to make a point than any real reason.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You hit the nail on the head.
Also in regards to posting the video I appreciate it's frustrating to people, but the person making it chose not to make it public and only to a mermaid audience on their FB. While raven has a copy, I leave it up to her decision if she wants to post it here or not. The person has since retracted many of their statements as a "mistake" sort of. I think that only happened because Merbella's suggested getting their legal team involved.
I did not bring this issue to the forum, I replied only when it was brought up by others with the context I know to be true- that i have provided discreet proof for, that has been VERIFIED true- not a matter of opinion over 'sloppy work' that is subjected, but hard core facts. When has anyone ever known Raven to speak up about a review publicly? In her entire history?
I think in general too people need to realize/remember that just because you pay a lot of money for a silicone tail doesn't mean they are impervious to beuing ruined if you aren't careful with it. Scraping your paint off, tearing a fin off- these are not reflections on a tail maker. Everyone gets sent a multitude of photos, if someone had concerns over flaws or seams or anything, pointing it out when it's reviewed, or unboxed, would get the issue fixed (if there is one). How does it take you a month to decide your seams are bad or you don't like spots, you know?
If people have a personal issue with ME they should take me out of the equation then and start asking questions like this. i see that some had already on the video, but weremet with telling off. Even the reviewers own friends.
As someone who hasn't seen the review (because I don't know the mermaid in question, and for heaven's sake I can't just go "friend" her on facebook because I'm curious about a video!) and as someone who wants to someday become a tailmaker, what concerned me was the possibility that this person was posting a fake bad review for the purpose of pressuring the tailmaker for a new tail. From all accounts she was initially very happy with the purchase. There also appear to be some inaccuracies in this person's account when it comes to expenses and wait time and design, which look like they can be documented and verified, but from Theo's post there appears to be serious problems with the quality of the tail, too. I'm perfectly willing to believe even a really good maker can put out a clunker with a pretty paint job now and then. It's the nature of art. (And silicone.)
It's clear to me Raina believes this person is trying to hurt Raven's business with a deliberately inaccurate review, so she can get a new tail out of Raven, or just hurt her business if Raven refuses. I can respect her standing up for Raven, if that's an accurate interpretation of this mermaid's intentions. From those who've seen the video, is that what happened? Did this mermaid post this review to pressure Raven to fix the tail after Raven refused to do so privately, or is she simply expressing disappointment with her tail but ready to let it go?
It may be that the mermaid in question never intended Raina or Raven to see the review, just wanted to vent in her safe space to her friends about not getting her dream tail. Which is understandable. Then mutual friends of each passed along the information and ignited this into a flame war. Which is not cool, really.
And now Raina's business is getting fake negative reviews from this mermaid's friends. Which is very definitely not cool.
And now mers I really respect are leaving Mernetwork over drama dragged over here from Facebook, which means less cool stuff happens here, which is really shitty for everyone. :( So sorry to everyone who is leaving, it will be less fun here without you. You'll be missed!
(And wow, these last few pages need to be packed onto the Drama Llama over to the Drama thread, eh?)
To put it simply: i can't judge until I've seen the video and even though people in this thread keep saying it's easibly accessible and found I have yet to even see a link of this video and i am friends with 30+ mers on facebook.
But my thoughts are if it is a truthful review why do select people only get to see it? Why was it posted privately only for this person's friends to see? If i had a bad experience i would make the review public.
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to clarify
Quote:
Did this mermaid post this review to pressure Raven to fix the tail after Raven refused to do so privately, or is she simply expressing disappointment with her tail but ready to let it go?
Raven was never contacted about any of that before the review, her only communication was that the tail was perfect. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Quote:
But my thoughts are if it is a truthful review why do select people only get to see it? Why was it posted privately only for this person's friends to see? If i had a bad experience i would make the review public.
Valid questions. Questions I wish more people would ask. If it's an honest true review, why would she care if people saw it? We can say the reaction, but the only reaosn there is a negative reaction at all on mernetwork, is because very key points can be proven a lie.
You've got people in here complaining about wait times and lack of communication and no one gives them crap, just says sorry, if there's context shares it, and wishes them luck. Venessa posted about her issues with her tail, and no one said anything to argue with her (she also posted her proof) just "that sucks". So being afraid of the community response to me, is BS. They knew there would be a negative one to begin with, based on all the initial comments on the video.
Normally I stay away from the drama, in fact usually I am usually just a lurker to these boards. I like to read some of the posts, but I try not to respond because I have noticed if you do say "anything" that may be perceived as controversial people have a tendency to rip you to a million pieces, which was shown in the MerNation thread when one of their tails came into question. Just like them, this story has one side, the other side, and the truth. I will start by saying that, one thing that really bothers me about tail making in general is the fact that so many people do not see it as a business. Its more like, "I shall give you the honor, of having me make you a tail!" instead of.."You are giving me the honor of making you a tail by paying me $3,000+ because you trust that I will make you the very best, and most beautiful tail out there". That in itself leads to an unhealthy amount of hero worship. OMG she picked me to make a tail for! I have to wait a year+ to get it but it will be so worth it! I don't mind waiting months for a single email because she choose me! I am worried it is taking so long for her to email me, but I can't say anything because I don't want to make her unhappy! I MUST BE PATIENT! As far as I know this is the ONLY business that works that way and it's asinine. A customer, or potential customer should NEVER feel scared about contacting the person who is working for them. Thats like hiring a contractor to build your house and being to scared to say "but, the toilet goes in the bathroom right? not in the living room?" Because your scared of upsetting them and having them walk away from the house. This is both detrimental to the customers as well as the tail makers. The customers now have an extremely high expectation of what they should be getting. If I had to wait years, and pay thousands, I would have a pretty darn high expectation as well and you can bet your bottom dollar that if I found even a single flaw on that tail once I got it I would be royally pissed, yet, people don't get pissed. They cry in silence because God Forbid they upset the tail maker and the tail maker gets her friends to come on here to rant about the mermaid in question and ruin her reputation with the community. So no, we probably don't hear a lot of bad reviews because we all want to still be a part of the community without being ostracized.
Which leads me to the review in question, and the irony of it all. I HAVE seen the review, having been FB friends with said mermaid since way before she even got the tail. The fact that she is being torn apart on here for a review that was not even POSTED here, that was not even posted Publicly for the world to see just goes to show how twisted the Mer community is. The amount of people that are so eager to jump up and scream ITS LIES! is appalling. Especially when these people have no clue who the mer is, or have even seen the video in question. To blindly follow someones opinion without even really and truly investigating the situation on your own, then to slam a mermaid who you don't even know, over a video you have never seen!??? Like seriously people??? I don't care if King Triton comes on here and proclaims that the review was lies, until I see it for myself I am Not going to judge.
As for the review, what saddens me the most is how honest and genuine the mer in question was. She counted down for the tail for months. She was so blissfully excited, so unbelievably happy when it finally came. I actually teared up a bit. To listen to the review of the tail only a month later, was absolutely heartbreaking. She was honestly, a heck of a lot nicer about the whole thing then I would have EVER been. She expressed disappointment, upset, sadness, and Facts. The seams were a mess, the little heel fins were falling off, the scales are peeling away, the monofin inside was old, used cracked and a mess, the drainage was put in above the fluke instead of in the fluke so it bubbles the fluke instead of drains through it. The paint job is messed up, (and she never said the pokadots were not there she stated they looked like its basically an afterthought) which they do. Some of the pieces are not even painted on the ends, as in finished! This isn't stuff she is lying about, its all RIGHT THERE. She literally goes over the tail inch by inch to show the issues. My tail from MerNation is almost a year old and I beat the living shit out of it (unlike her) and its in better shape, and we are talking the fact I dragged it over rocks, grass, didn't let it dry,barely rinse it out, etc and it still looks like new! Did she have some of the facts wrong, yes, the price was $3,000 and not $4,000. She ordered and paid a long time ago and got it wrong BUT the second it's proven that she was wrong she immediately admits she made a mistake and only paid $3,000, but fuck people, it's still $3,000 dollars! It should NOT be falling apart! She said she waited 3 years, but stated in the video that the wait time was "getting money, designing, then waiting for it to come in". She ALSO says that she thinks Raven is a really sweet person, that another Mermaid got her tail around the same time she did and it was flawless and beautiful, she stated that she hopes no one else has experienced anything like this with MerBella, in other words she was far more complimentary and kind then I would have been in the same situation. In fact, she was an absolute doll, which makes THESE posts ripping her apart even more criminal.
I don't know what happened in the making of this tail, only 2 people know that, Raven and Sean. Even if They tell someone what actually happened, They are still the ONLY one there making it. Maybe she was rushed, maybe she was fed up, maybe the tail simply was not holding together the right way, maybe she was trying to use up spare parts, maybe she was having a bad day, who the heck knows, what I do know is she is a BUSINESS OWNER first. An artist, ANY artist who is commissioned to paint, draw, make anything still has to be held accountable for their work no matter how beautiful it seems in pictures, or even when it is first received. She accepted a lot of money for this tail and the client deserves what is advertised, which (according to the Merbella's facebook page) is an ultra realistic costume out of high quality performance silicon products.
When I came into this community I was really excited to find a whole bunch of people who shared similar interests, and struggles, and passions as I have. I quickly learned that this community has a very bad side as well, and it saddens me to see that the bad side seems to far overpower the good. Cyberbullying is never right. Making snap judgements about others is never cool. This hero worshiping of people you really don't know just so you can be in with the "popular kids" is so obvious and juvenile. I have watched it happen from the second I stepped onto these boards, and I was even to a degree, guilty of it myself. I have gotten all up in a huff along with others over something someone said just so I could be in with the majority and have a chance at getting the tail I want from the tailmaker I love. Then I woke up and realized, this is not me...bullying ANYONE over a situation online that I will never know the full story of is NOT ME. I am not going to lower my personal morals just to make sure I keep some people happy.
Also, why would the owners, and mods of this board need the invoices from someone who is not even a member of this board, for a review that was never even posted ON this board, and was never even public? To prove what? To what end is that? To make sure people know the price she stated was wrong, yes it was, she admitted that the second she realized it. To make sure the time line she put was correct, yes it was, she stated the time line as one of the first things she said in the video. So why do it? For some sort of professional "backup" wave the contract around and proclaim SHE IS A LYER! to discredit her? Yet she can't the invoice is just that, an invoice. Details of what she wanted and how much it would cost. It has nothing to do with the quality she received which is clearly shown on the video.
Also, all of this "She just wants Raven to make her another tail" BS. She never asked for that in the video. NOT ONCE. NOT ONE SINGLE TIME! Which AGAIN goes to show how people twist words, and make shit up, and jump on the fucking bandwagon not knowing anything about the situation.
I respect Raven as an artist. She was very sweet when I met her, and she is very talented, as a person I think she is lovely. As a business owner, I think she needs help. As the mermaid in question said in her video, " It has nothing to do with Raven and her Artistry, she is obviously an amazing artist to come up with these designs, I just feel like this tail, was put on the back burner for other more popular mers".
Raina, I know you want to defend your friend, thats commendable but there are times when your temper, and blatant accusations are detrimental to the business. In other words, if you are going to present yourself as part of Merbella's company then you need to approach these situations with a little less bullying and a little more fact finding and tact. If Raven wants you to act as the face of Merbellas because her social anxiety keeps her from doing so herself, then anything YOU say reflects directly on the company. As an outsider looking in, if I wanted to buy a tail and was researching all of the tail makers (which btw I did, throughly), and I saw the video then read these posts, it would be pretty obvious that the tail was a mess, and due to your posts, Raven could never be in the wrong and it MUST be the customers fault, therefore if I had a problem myself, I could never go to Raven because I would have you ripping me apart here. You can come here with talk of lawyers, lawsuits, rules and regs all you want, and in some situations you can be absolutely in the right, but if you do so in a way that comes off as condescending and bullying, your words won't mean a darn thing. Remember that post on the MerNation thread about Edens tail, how quick you were to rip MerNation a new one when you thought they did work like MerBella just did without knowing any of the "actual" facts behind the entire situation. Remember how MerNation came back and stated the facts of the situation personally and revealed it all and made everything you said pretty much mote. Its very easy to throw people under the bus when you "think" you know everything, and a lot harder to drag them back out when you learn the real truth. It's also a lot harder to regain your own position of authority if people see you constantly slaughtering people. Take a step back and think about how YOU want to be perceived, what You want to be known for, because it is certainly not for being humble or fair in your assessments.
My suggestion to everyone. Research shit for yourselves, and if the video some how did get posted out there by a third party, then go watch the damn video, but for fucks sake use your own brain. Stop relying on the grapevine of gossip" in a situation that could hurt the livelihood of other people you don't even know.
A single negative review video isn't going to make or break a company, especially in the face of the past work that Merbella has turned out. Someone should be able to have the opinion "I paid a lot for this product and am not satisfied with what I received. I feel it is not on par with the other work this company makes. For me, this purchase was not worth it." Without being attacked for it. Mertailor is infamous for attacking people who negatively review his products, I am sad to see this becoming true of other tailmakers as well.
If I ordered a product from Merbella and wasn't satisfied with what I received, would I have my personal information shared with others? That's kind of scary to think about. Doxxing is illegal, no matter how much you dislike a person.
Raven just posted she is taking a break from tail making. I think we need to drop this subject and it should only be discussed between the client and Raven. I know I'm not on here often but I'm happy Raven is taking a break from everything she needs it. We all need a break from time to time. I can't wait to get my tail from her!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have read everything, seen everything, etc. etc. etc.
#1.) Just because a bunch of people express their sympathy for how Raven feels awful over this situation is not automatically stating "WE ARE ANTI-THAT-MER-IN-QUESTION." The whole Merbella forum is about all things Merbella, and you know... Raven is kind of the core of that. It hurts me to see my friend hurt. What I did was say some words to Raven about how she is validated to feel how she does, that it won't last forever, and to keep creating. I seen several people do that too.
#2.) Some actions of the mer-in-question, did make me mad, personally. I can admit that. I was emotionally charged, and when the going gets rough I am usually a fiery tornado of flaming sharks as it is my instinct to protect. So I take responsibility. I say brash, silly things to cheer people up. I always have.
#3.) I would like to see where this mer is being 'ripped apart' on the forum. People are just discussing it. Then immediately went into how Raven is taking it.
#4.) You are entitled to your opinion, but as trying my absolutely hardest to be an outside perspective, I see Raina was ripped harder than anyone. I am not a sheep, this is fact. People called her toxic, manipulative, etc etc. When she was like "Yo dog, a lot of the stuff in this review is wack." That wasn't her being a Raven attack dog, that is because she was actively in discussion with the creation of the product.
#5.) You are entitled to your opinions and feelings, but don't shame other people for their own. This is kind of how this all started.
#6.) I am not going to rage quit over the feelings of other people expressed in a place that is supposed to make them feel safe. I have hope that this is going to boil out and HOPEFULLY we go back to our mermaidy selves. The rage is unnecessary and unhealthy for any of us.
#7) If I was the mer-in-question, I would be hurt too. Honestly. No one asks for this. But you cannot control the opinions and feelings of others, and she did what she had to do what she felt she had to do. This is not meant to say "Keep your mouth shut" It isnt. I encourage people to speak their minds. You really shouldn't give a fuck what people think. She had the right to make a review. (She was just checked on the parts that didn't add up.)
#8.) Raven is human. Mer-In-Question is human. We all make mistakes. We all get caught up in shit. Rav's taking a break for awhile. So let's all respect that.
#8.) That all being said, can we get back to what this forum is about? We are all exhausted over this.
Yikes guys: ok. I've seen the tail in person, I've seen the video, and I feel like people are definitely overreacting. Was the tail perfect? No of course not. Is it beautiful? I think so. Her best work? No. Rushed? Maybe. The point is, there will always be negative reviews.
Raina, I know you're very protective of your friend and that you can't stand to see anything happen that you don't think is fair. However we should all try to remember that there are so many sides to every story, and that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It's unfortunate for Raven, it's unfortunate for the mermaid too. Nobody should be harassing anyone about this.
And the video is not posted to the forum and an official review has not been submitted here so I do not think that Raina should have sent in information to the mods. It is kinda a violation of privacy especially since this was a private video and this is not someone who is on mernetwork.
As a member I'm disappointed in everyone's conflict resolution skills. As a mod I'm letting you know that this needs to stop. You guys already know that.
Lastly, I can honestly understand where everyone is coming from with their posts. We all want the same thing here. We all want honest reviews and we all want various tailmakers to do well. We all get upset when it's hard to place the blame and when we can't tell who's right. Let's try to find common ground here.
Thanks guys.
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Also, why would the owners, and mods of this board need the invoices from someone who is not even a member of this board
She is a member.
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I don't know what happened in the making of this tail, only 2 people know that, Raven and Sean
...Sean is my partner. Not Ravens...
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Raina, I know you're very protective of your friend and that you can't stand to see anything happen that you don't think is fair. However we should all try to remember that there are so many sides to every story, and that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
In my cases I only pointed out things that can be proven lies. Most things which the person decided to retract (in a wishy washy way) and I think that should raise some eyebrows honestly over their credibility, but that's my opinion.
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Also, all of this "She just wants Raven to make her another tail" BS. She never asked for that in the video. NOT ONCE. NOT ONE SINGLE TIME!
I actually never said that, no one else here said that, someone simply *asked* if that was the case.
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Remember that post on the MerNation thread about Edens tail, how quick you were to rip MerNation a new one when you thought they did work like MerBella just did without knowing any of the "actual" facts behind the entire situation. Remember how MerNation came back and stated the facts of the situation personally and revealed it all and made everything you said pretty much mote.
Actually I remember that incident quite differently, I remember Eden posting all her proof of the issue. My points (that the tail fell apart and they should repaint it) weren't moot. And in THIS incidence, the reviewer never contacted Raven prior to their review about their issues (unlike Eden who did).
I think exagerating your payment from 3k to 4k is a big deal, not a mistake. I think exagertating your wait time to 2 years, adnd then to 3 in comments when the whole community gets in an uproar over wait times is also a big deal.
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Stop relying on the grapevine of gossip
Gossip entails hearsay that people can't prove.
I have a whole list of things I can counter about this, and Raven has all the proof she needs to document it, and the photos of the tail in question and what it looked like when it was sent out. I'm not arguing that her tail fell apart on her somehow at all, tails are fragile they scrape paint and fins come off I already said that. I am focusing specifically on all the statements she's now back peddling that were lies. I think it's shitty anyone would assume the tail is having issues because of ravens tail making, but I know better than to argue with people when they get that kinda shit in their head honestly. People commited to believing the worst about others, are always going to. Nothing will change their mind.
I'm talking facts. Actual facts. About actual lies. Not subjective "I think the tail looks like ____" which i've already said multiple times.
And really, it doens't matter what I say. You can all see the proof for yourself when Raven posts it.
Nobody was doxxed. I feel like everyone needs a lesson on what that actually entails.
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Someone should be able to have the opinion "I paid a lot for this product and am not satisfied with what I received. I feel it is not on par with the other work this company makes
The issue really isnt about what she thinks of her tail, no one, not even raven is defending her right to be unhappy with the tail It's all the other big lies in the review.
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#1.) Just because a bunch of people express their sympathy for how Raven feels awful over this situation is not automatically stating "WE ARE ANTI-THAT-MER-IN-QUESTION." The whole Merbella forum is about all things Merbella, and you know... Raven is kind of the core of that. It hurts me to see my friend hurt. What I did was say some words to Raven about how she is validated to feel how she does, that it won't last forever, and to keep creating. I seen several people do that too.
Exactly. That's literally what all the posts were. People expressing sympathy and empathy, and frustration about the situation. That's a far cry from what some people are trying to exagerate it into being.
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#3.) I would like to see where this mer is being 'ripped apart' on the forum. People are just discussing it. Then immediately went into how Raven is taking it.
Again spot on. No name calling, no linking to her stuff so people can harass her. Nothing. Just discussing what many of us saw, and Raven's reaction to it. Which is what people do all over the forum.
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Lastly, I can honestly understand where everyone is coming from with their posts. We all want the same thing here. We all want honest reviews and we all want various tailmakers to do well. We all get upset when it's hard to place the blame and when we can't tell who's right. Let's try to find common ground here.
Well said
For clarification
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And the video is not posted to the forum and an official review has not been submitted here so I do not think that Raina should have sent in information to the mods. It is kinda a violation of privacy especially since this was a private video and this is not someone who is on mernetwork.
The Iona saw the video herself, as she was on the mer's friendlist until they realized it. I didn't need to send it to her. Previous policy has required proof if you say anything on the forum that could be percieved as slander/libel. Since I said the mer in question was lying, I provided the proof. If that's something the mods want to change how it's handled, that's fine. But this is how it has always been handled in the past, and I would have been reprimanded had I not given anything and said "that review has lies in it"
At the end of the day the mer in question more or less retracted some of the bigger lies. But it's unfourtunate because the video is out there, and people will not take the time to find out the truth of the matter if they see it down the road, so the damage is done. There were lots of other issues with false statements, and I think that should raise red flags. If I made a statement and there was even 1 thing in it found to be a mistake, people would be coming at me with the pitchforks. But this mer admits to being pretty largely wrong about some pretty big things, and it's excused away as a mistake instead of being malicious.
It's really up to Raven if she decides to show it all. but I think people will be singing a different tune once she does. People standing up for her and talking about what was done to her, is not the reason she's taking a break from custom orders by a long shot.
Throwing in my two cents to say that no one is being doxxed. That's a pretty serious accusation right there. Getting talked about on a forum or facebook page is not doxxing. I haven't seen anyones on either side of the issue's SSNs or addresses being released onto 4chan for this. The worst that's happened is someone left fake reviews on Raina's business page.
The mer could have posted a review in the review section. Merbellas reviews are not 100% 5 star, and no one gave any of those people shit about anything. No one is saying that she shouldn't point out problems with the tail; they're saying that they should let the problems speak for themselves, without adding exaggerations. That's all anyone ever wants from a review. When you exaggerate, you get people calling you on your shit, and it gets everyone worked up.
Also, just a friendly reminder, Raina does not speak for the mods or influence the tone of this forum any more than anyone else does. We all think for ourselves and like to see evidence of things, just like anyone would. Just because some of us have views that tend to fall in line with hers doesn't mean that we're all sheeple, thanks. She's been around and knows the rules re: evidence for tail claims, good and bad, and like anyone else, when she breaks the rules, she gets banned.
I haven't seen the video, and would like to so I can get a better view...but now that marble has just posted on Fb that she isn't taking any custom orders fro the public does make it seem like she is a little guilty.
I get that drama sucks but pulling your business from the public really does make you look a little suspicious IMO.
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Originally Posted by TheAutisticMermaid
But she's not pulling her business. She is going to continue to make tails and accessories (at least that's how it seems) but they will be of her own creation and not the clients. It appears (and I don't know Raven personally so someone who does, feel free to confirm or correct me) that she wants to take a break from working so one-on-one with customers as designers which I can't blame her for. It sounds exhausting trying to find a creative compromise. She's not stopping all production because she is afraid of anything merely working with her own designs rather than someone elses.
That's how I understand it at least.
Lynsea, your answer is accurate.
It is just odd timing is all I am saying, i know she is still going to sell remade things andantes to focus on other things, but it comes right after this review...so like I said it seems a little suspicious.. But again, a lot of us still wanna see that video.
You have to remember as well that it comes in the midst of good reviews for her tails. Also she's had bad reviews before- you can see some of them in the review section.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAutisticMermaid
She's a very sensitive person by nature and really bends over backwards and kills herself so that she turns out a good product and makes everyone happy. This has led, for various reasons (this review, I think, being the straw that broke the camel's back rather than a random flounce) to burnout. She's taking a break from new clients, essentially. She will still be making tails for professional productions, clients, and herself. She may take on new clients in the future. Also, she's taken breaks from orders before over the years, when the stress of it all becomes too much.
the timing is because she was just crapped on, lied about, had her (and mine) name drug through the mud... and it's made her realize it's not worth it anymore because people will always lie, always try to find a way to cheat the system, always believe the worst despite proof if that's what they're committed to. Raven has been dealing with clients behaving badly for years and been wanting to stop customs for a long time. The timing is because this pushed her over the edge. if anything, it should reflect badly on the people doing the pushing. This is why we can't have nice things. She's not perfect but she made it her job to help people get their dream and been treated like absolute crap over the years for it.
As someone who's made many custom costumes for various clients over the years I can back up the descent into burnout being hastened by an unhappy client no matter if they are justified or not. Very few people get into custom work to make people unhappy and artists feel especially attached to their work and knowing something you put out there isn't being loved is painful. One of the many reasons my books have been closed since last September to new clients.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theta
Yes, I've seen the video and while I don't believe all of the information stated on there I know what it is like to not have a stellar opinion of a tail maker's work and suffer for any bad reviews given. I also know what it's like to be on the other side of the coin and have unfair reviews and flat out lies told about me and my work and how rampant the condemnation was until I posted photographic proof and more.
Anyways. All I'm trying to say is I feel for both sides and I hope people will in the future really start trying to work stuff out OFFLINE before 'calling out' anything online and having it explode with people who don't have all of the information explode trying to claim justice for their friends.