For example her attempt at yellow face. ��☕️
For example her attempt at yellow face. ��☕️
I was actually referring to a few of the comments from earlier in THIS thread about the use of cultural hair styles and costumes in relation to appropriation. That is called stereotyping and it is what people use to poorly portray another culture. Just like Japanese kimono are used to portray Japanese people. And the box braids are used to portray black people. The fact is, stereotypes were used to portray Hannah as a black goddess. That is what cultural appropriation is based around. It is entirely relevant. But thank you for your comment.
Did you actually watch the 3 videos?? That is what these discussions are about. Mers of colour aren't running around stereotyping people in the community, this is pretty much the first time they've ever spoken up. That's why your comment is undermining.
Those comments you're referencing are specifically another thread. The posts can be found here: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthre...%29%29/page112
You can also find more in several other threads including one I started. Plenty of examples of how the mers here know not to stereotype.
Momo you're such a beauty. As a Colored Mer (I'm native american) this was a very much needed video and thank you for putting yourself forward. Like the LARP community, the Mer community is alot of fun and amazing, but its multicultural person of color representation can be lacking. It's something to be worked on and speaking up is a great way to kickstart it. I'm proud to be a mer with you.
PS
Thank you for making my amazing top it looks FABULOUS in the video <3
For the particular example that I was talking about, it just would have felt more respectful and aware, and acknowledging her realization of what was going on, from my perspective, if she had said "they wanted to use me, and I didn't even realize..." and then she stopped to listen, instead of that she "more embodied the qualities of the role" and DIDN"T stop to listen to why anyone was making a big deal about it.
(edited to take out the million words to say- I deeply understand the many aspects of, for example, locks. Taken out, 'cause- why mention it? BUT)
I don't know her story, and the locks didn't necessarily seem as offensive to me until I read her perspective, because I felt that it really was taking pretty pieces of whatever cultures, separate from their meaning.
exactly.Quote:
it just would have felt more respectful and aware, and acknowledging her realization of what was going on, from my perspective, if she had said "they wanted to use me, and I didn't even realize..." and then she stopped to listen, instead of that she "more embodied the qualities of the role" and DIDN"T stop to listen to why anyone was making a big deal about it.
At no point have I ever said a mer on here has been steroetyping? That isn't the point I am making at all. I am in full support of the fact that they are speaking up for themselves. I encourage all people to speak up when something isn't right. And I wasn't undermining anything Raina. I am stating that steroetyping and appropriating any culture is a bad thing. That shouldn't just apply to the situation of someome portraying a black character. The title of the thread even says colour AND culture. I would assume that the points Momo made stand true for any culture and the use of their items, costumes, rituals, and beliefs. My point was directed at the people who call out cultural appropriation where they actually don't know the person.
I will say it again, this situation with Hannah portraying a character who should never be anything but black, is wrong. I am not disputing that.
Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
The last point you made about people calling out cultural appropriation when you don't know the person was discussed in a other thread. Most of us know not to judge (we're a bunch of adults in tails who are we to judge lol)
Assuming by now everyone knows Hannah. She also attempted to portray an Asian person by asking if anyone knew how to do yellow face. She is not even remotely Asian �� for some reason I feel that everyone is forgetting that point? She isn't just trying to be black here. She's appropriating natives and Asians.
LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaGlass Siren
I think you're being overly defensive of my comments honestly. My replies are to your comment in which you saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Sapphire Mermaid
I reminded you that it didn't apply in this specific situation, and didnt warrant the warning since we've already discussed it an length and could be undermining to the current discussion.Quote:
All I want anyone who has read this to take from what I have written is that not everyone you think is culturally appropriating, actually is. You don't know their family history, you don't know their identity. Please just be kind and ask nicely before you scream appropriation at them.
^ which isn't, this discussion. And has been discussed elsewhere. It's like coming into a thread about violence against women and reminding people that not all men do that. Sure. but right now we're talking about those who do. Like how in this conversation, we're not talking about people wrongfully stereotyping out of ignorance and assuming someone is appropriating. We are talking about someone who did and the community's response to that.Quote:
My point was directed at the people who call out cultural appropriation where they actually don't know the person.
If you don't understand my point by now, I dont think I can make it any clearer. So I guess I'm done.
lol I suck at technology and quoted the wrong postQuote:
Originally Posted by merwandering
But is there ever a time that yellowface WOULDN'T be appropriation? Do you really have to know anything more about the situation to call that one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphire Mermaid
^ that!
No, there is never a time when yellow face is acceptable. If you read my earlier comment, that was a reference to my personal experiences within my cultures growing up.
This is exactly my point. It doesn't just apply to the black mer community, and these points should be applied everywhere. No culture should be appropriated.
Raina, in every single thing I have posted I have agreed that this situation is blatant appropriation and I don't agree with any of the decisions that allowed this to happen. I am also allowed to add to that by saying that we, as humans, have to be careful about when and where we point the finger, though. I am not undermining anything in this thread by saying that. I am allowed to have a conversation by saying that it happens in all cultures, but don't assume when you see it. That is the entire point of having open and honest discussions about issues like this. In this case, Yes, it is most definitely out of line and is definitely appropriation, but that won't always be the case, even if it is seen as that way. If I want to remind people to not take everything on face value for every case of appropriation we see, I am allowed to do that, even if you think it isn't relevant or necessary. It is part of the conversation about appropriation and everything that goes with it. If you have talked about it on another thread as well, that's great. It is important to discuss every aspect of these issues when you can because everyone needs constant reminders that this happens. Just because it happens in one case, doesn't mean you stop talking about the ones where it doesn't happen. Just like with police. Yes, not all of them are good. But if we only talk about how bad they are when bad things happen, it creates negativity for all of them. Again, YES. THIS IS A BAD SITUATION AND I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY OF THE ACTIONS TAKEN BY THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE DECISION MAKING FOR THIS. In saying that, I am also allowed to point out that it doesn't always happen that way. Open discussions always lead to better resolutions that closed ones.
It is also great that you have had a conversation with Hannah about this. Hopefully she starts to understand that this is a huge issue and people are upset about it.
Editing bc OMG not thinking about the can of worms I DONT want to open.
But I think that was kind of her point, as far as the context, sometimes interjecting with a qualifying statement can do so much to damage focus on the magnitude of the issue at hand. It takes away from the salience of the specific conversation, to point out exceptions not relevant to the situation.
Merwandering, I'm simply amazed by all of your posts. While you're fairly new to MerNetwork, you've been doing nothing but giving us all your incredible insight and knowledge, whether it's in tailmaking or purchasing, or other matters, like this topic of cultural appropriation. Thank you for all that you do here on MN. :)
I follow Hannah on Instagram, and she does have a lot of posts using bits and pieces from other cultures, whether it's in what she's wearing or the way she has her makeup. As a makeup artist, I look at anyone like a canvas to be decorated, no matter their skin color. As a side note, I have always had a ton of admiration for Indian outfits and makeup, and even studied Hinduism in ninth grade. My project got a seal of approval from an Indian student :)
I just don't see how someone could, in a figurative sense, take a cultural piece out of context; just pluck a pretty piece from somewhere in the world without knowing anything about where it came from. I'm a big history nerd, so if I want to wear something from a different culture, I make dang sure I know all about it! It's really hard to watch people be so blind when it comes to something that is sacred to someone else. To me, it feels like when my sister, who always talks about Satan, demons, etc., wears a necklace with pentacles all over it, and then tells me to stop looking at religious symbols (from my religion) in a religious sense :headdesk:
I am not trying to take anything away from the conversation. Momo literally says in her video she wants to hear ALL of the comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by merwandering
I know it happens, I know it is shit, and I know it needs to stop. I was raised with the spiritual belief that if you continue to look at only negative, then you become the negative. That is how racism, discrimination, and ignorance are bred on all levels. When you are dealing with a situation like this, you need to be aware of every aspect of the whole conversation. You don't get anywhere by just seeing only the negative and refusing to think of the positive. When you look at any turning point in history, the whole story is balanced. There are negatives, but for every one of those, there is a positive. Germans helping allied soldiers in WW2. White people helping black people in the 60's. Christians and Catholics speaking out against homophobia. It is f*****g horrible that Hannah has chosen to portray a black goddess and made a very uninformed decision (not the first from what I gather) about another culture. It would be devastating to so many if this issue were to become completely negative as it is such a positive movement. Yes, we have to take the bad shit that goes with it, but take the good as well. Don't say it isn't relevant, because every aspect of this movement is relevant.
I do think you are coming from a place of love, which is why I just want to point out this aspect, using Raina's example
if I said "A man attacked me and now I hate men!" it would be relevant to say- "you know, I hate that you had a bad experience with men, but men in general are not bad"
If I said "A man attacked me and I am angry at *him*", I honestly think it would be very hurtful for you to say "men, in general, are not bad", because you are kind of glazing over what I'm saying. And what I'm saying is that I am hurt. And it is important. And that's what I'm trying to talk about for a minute.
She's saying, this specific thread was created because people were hurt.
edit: I guess more accurate to say, in this instance, "a man attacked me, and I am angry about this specific act"
Mermaid Whisper thank you so much! It sounds like you care a lot<3Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Whisper
I probably need to talk less, lol, because I get a little all over the place when I'm multitasking
which is always:(
but I do care:)