What makes you Pro ? ? (not what you think)

See, this is why I need to stop writing wall o texts but I have no idea how else to write. LOL because you all end up making such great comments.

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I would say that people like Hannah Frasier are VERY FAMOUS professional mermaids (a level Raina is approaching, obviously, but has not quite achieved as broadly as Hannah has yet), while some of the other mers are simply pro mers who don't get a lot of media coverage.

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Agreed and that's how I interpreted it too from his examples. Pro=famous. But even famous is subjective. I'm famous in Canada! lol (but p.s. thanks for the vote of confidence) and I think your actor comparison is right on.

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Despite what you do, whether that be parties, modeling, free diving, or lectures, if you're getting paid to do it in some form, you're professional in my mind. Even if it all goes to a charity that's pro. Saying something like, "You have to be a free diver to be a professional mermaid" is kinda like saying "You can only be a heart surgeon to be considered a surgeon." There's different breeds of professional.

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That's a great example. It made me think too that even people who don't go all the way still end up being called "a medical professional" or a "legal professional" too.

Also if I haven't said it yet, your sig is great

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Originally Posted by AniaR

If the comparison was people starting out in a tail compared to people who do a bunch of different things in a tail, I would have agreed. But the comparison was people doing kids parties in a tail. I couldn't DO a kid's party without all the skills I use for all my other mer-gigs and event. (Kids parties make up about 1/2 of my income and time, the other things are filled with either adult or all ages/commercial work)

Also, I certainly wont argue that Melissa is a much better swimmer than I am, but if you're going to measure success what *is* the success? I travel for mermaid stuff, I've done more music videos/tv appearances (I just filmed several in the past few months that I can't post until they are released) they just happen to all be Canadian. I can support myself full time with my mermaid work, along with 2 other mermaids and an assistant (plus 1 other sub mermaid and 1 sub assistant). Actually wrote and published a book (Melissa was a character in one written and illustrated by someone else), and melissa has used the very tips in my book in the order they were written in to help her expand her media reach and social networking and kids parties. Thing is, I *don't* think I'm a better mermaid than her, or really anyone one else, but I make the comparison to show that it's seriously SUBJECTIVE. It's also important to look at context. Canada has a smaller population base. We have the same amount of people in our WHOLE COUNTRY than in California. We also have no aquariums on the East Coast willing to take mermaids and only a few on the west who are even considering. (and that's including the Ripley's Franchices). For what I am doing in Canada, I am every bit as well known as Melissa- in Canada. Few people know who she or any other big name mers are here. Just like how the Mermaids who are overseas and have several in the top of their field who also don't seem to be in the list of top pro mers- but probably should. Mermaids in their own respective countries will all have different opportunities. But I walk into other business establishments and people know who I am. The costume designer from Splash who has nothing to do with the mercommunity, but designed the tail for Shouse to make even personally contacted me when I released my book. For someone like him to find me, I have to believe I have reached a level of professionalism whether people want to agree with that or not.

Some mermaids have reached their high level by running swim schools. Others (Like Sheroes) by their amazing photoshoots. It's just so. incredibly. subjective. You can't just (as the two mermaids in the original post suggested) look at the couple of mermaids who free dive on a regular basis and consider them the only professionals. Have you tried free diving in Canadian waters? lol it's pretty green and cold on the East Coast, and I can't be dropping mad coin to fly around the world just for the illusion of looking more professional because I do some things in deeper water :p


And just in regards to,


We did stop. Mal directed his post at me and Cor. We're still engaging in conversation/debate and so is everyone else and that's what the forum is for. We just stopped the name calling as per requested. Nobody else is doing that or being dramatic. Just engaging with each other.

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Last part: it was directed at Melaina when she was pointing out coradions posts. More of the misinterpreting of the information. The stahhhhaaaping was at that :p

But back on topic. No free diving freaks me out LOL.

Like I said I have a lot of "leveling up "to do

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Originally Posted by SeaGlass Siren

Last part: it was directed at Melaina when she was pointing out coradions posts. More of the misinterpreting of the information. The stahhhhaaaping was at that :p

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I don't know how I've misinterpreted him - it seemed to me like he was contradicting his own points - but if that's the case then I'll concede :P

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Originally Posted by Mermaid Melaina

I don't know how I've misinterpreted him - it seemed to me like he was contradicting his own points - but if that's the case then I'll concede :P

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I wasn't very clear in trying to make my distinctions. It's my failure, not your misinterpretation. I view the terms "professional mermaid" and "professional" differently.

I'm just trying to say I think of pro mermaids as people who are paid because they can not only look good as mermaids but have trained themselves and their bodies to be able to push past what most people can do. I guess I see it with more exclusivity. Not everyone who owns a tail can physically do what people like Hannah and Melissa can do. I think of a pro mer as someone who has essentially leveled up their swimming and diving abilities as its been put and been able to combine it with the grace that's associated with a mermaid.

I think you could be a "professional" of sorts in an area of entertaining you choose and be able to call it whatever you like and justify it to a degree by saying you get paid. If this is the only criteria though then anyone who owns a tail could get paid to show up at a party and put it on and call themselves a professional. Do I think people like Mermaid Harmony are professionals? Yes, I do.

Do I think I am a pro model though because I'm signed with an agency and have been paid to model or because my regular job title with Abercrombie and Fitch is Model? No, I personally don't.

I feel pro is too vague a term, with the model example it's like a supermodel vs. someone whose been paid for to do a few local campaigns. From now on I'll just call people like Hannah and Melissa "Super Mers" or "Mer Goddesses" to avoid confusion because they are what I think of when I think pro mermaid.


Also on a side note unless my post has a quoted comment it's not in response to anything Raina said. She's on my ignore list.

Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. And by that interpretation I guess I can agree. But I do think that, like you said, "pro" really is too vague a term, and because of that subjectivity I don't think it's right call someone out for using their own interpretation of the word.

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Originally Posted by AniaR

That's a great example. It made me think too that even people who don't go all the way still end up being called "a medical professional" or a "legal professional" too.

Also if I haven't said it yet, your sig is great

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:cthulhu: Awww shucks thanks!

The only beef I have with the pro debate is when people buy a tail and swim around in their tail, learn some tricks, and then declare themselves as a professional mermaid. That's just recreational. Which there's nothing wrong with that! That's what I do xD You don't have to make money off of mermaiding to enjoy it. I also think that doing just one party or photoshoot (regardless of pay) does not make you a professional either. Once you have a few under your belt and you're doing this almost regularly, then you can change your title to professional. Just because you go ice skating once doesn't make you a figure skater :P But after a few classes and lessons then you can consider yourself a figure skater.

Wow, this has definitely stirred an interesting discussion ! I just wanted to make a note that I edited my original post for a few reasons. I changed it to 1 mermaid who said this (not 2) I had to go back and re-read something and also she did not use the word professional, she just said others aren't mermaids if they can't free dive like her....so actually this wasn't really a thing about using the word pro or not (thought I tend to also agree with many posters on here that pro is a very ambiguous term when it comes to being a mermaid performer ! since there is not certification, etc.) but anyway, she bluntly said not a 'mermaid' so that's what I thought was mean and un-called for.

my post was to hopefully point out that each of us have unique abilities and talents and the cool thing is that you can use those in your own way and don't need to compare yourself to others unless a client is looking for something in particular that you cannot do (as in my personal example of not diving past 10 ft) so then you can refer them to others who can or if they are looking for someone for a kids' party and you don't do those, you can refer, or someone who sells tails and you don't, etc, etc, etc.

peace, love and hugs :)

And also...... ;) Isn't it so exciting that we can all be mermaids and mermen ?? !! The possibilities are endless for your own look, what type of tail you wear, what you do in the tail, etc, etc. Everyone can use their creativity and make the mermaid thing work for them. And who cares if you do it for fun/hobby, for charity, get paid some time, get paid big bucks all the time, can afford a ferrari and a mansion from your mermaiding or just enough rent for a room and a bicycle ;) Everyone can do it in their own way. For example, around the time I started mermaiding a few years back I also started hoop dancing, acro yoga, and learning to spin poi and I love all these things so I made a little video of me hula hooping and poi spinning in my tail (and I'm going to make an updated version of it soon because my hooping and poi is much better now) but anyway, its totally random right ? I had never seen a mermaid hooping or spinning poi so I thought, why the hell not ? Of course, its not the usual thing so I will admit I have not gotten paid to do this particular act yet but I don't care, its fun and I know one of these days someone will go for a hula hooping, poi-spinning, mermaid go-go dancer at their event ;) and my boyfriend and I are working on acro yoga with the tail on...its def. a bit of a challenge ! Also I recently started this photo-shoot business with my boyfriend to offer something different and to help transform everyone into mers ! One of the things I would hear all the time when I was out in my tail is "I wanna do that ! " but a lot of people couldn't afford their own tails or really didn't want to actually swim in a tail, just wanted cool pictures so I decided we had an opportunity we could fulfill in that and so far its been going great. It super fun for me because I get to share the mermaid love with more people by transforming them and seeing them so happy to wear the tail and show off their own unique beauty. Anyway, if you are passionate about mermaids (like all of us are) you can make it into anything you want and you don't need anyone to validate what you are doing, just go for it and have fun.

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The only beef I have with the pro debate is when people buy a tail and swim around in their tail, learn some tricks, and then declare themselves as a professional mermaid. That's just recreational. Which there's nothing wrong with that! That's what I do xD You don't have to make money off of mermaiding to enjoy it. I also think that doing just one party or photoshoot (regardless of pay) does not make you a professional either. Once you have a few under your belt and you're doing this almost regularly, then you can change your title to professional. Just because you go ice skating once doesn't make you a figure skater :P But after a few classes and lessons then you can consider yourself a figure skater.

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Totally. One of the big things I tried to get across in my book is that there is a huge amount of work involved. It's not just about slapping on a tail. But honestly, I don't see TOO many mermaids who have barely started calling themselves Pro. I think the problem is more with tail makers (as I've mentioned before) who either haven't made a tail, or have made only 1, calling themselves professional tail makers and trying to sell a bunch of spots, personally. I do remember reading from 1 mermaid that she owned a tail but didn't know how to swim at all. So yeah that one... pretty pushing it for me. But then again KL can't swim and really loves being in her tail. So again, so freaking subjective.

I think maybe there could be specifications, "Professional Mermaid Athlete" fits to me, a bit better, for the mers whose main focus is diving- though many mers dabble in many areas too. I still agree with Melania's points.

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my post was to hopefully point out that each of us have unique abilities and talents and the cool thing is that you can use those in your own way and don't need to compare yourself to others unless a client is looking for something in particular that you cannot do

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Agree!

1. Coradion I think mer goddesses is perfect
2. Someone said something about a mermaid council. Yes. Let's do it, that sounds amazing.
I want to put on my resume that I am on a mermaid council.
So cool

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Originally Posted by Mermaid Harmony

Someone said something about a mermaid council. Yes. Let's do it, that sounds amazing.
I want to put on my resume that I am on a mermaid council.
So cool

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I'll bring my trident! ;P

well I sit on advisory boards for other mermaid companies, so why not a counsel? lol The counsel of high fin is called to order. lol

Wasn't going to weigh in, but I noticed something interesting today. When I'm talking to non-mers, I use the term "professional mermaid" to distinguish my "I'm doing this as a business venture, as a job" attitude from the "WHEE! I'm a mermaid!" attitude people think I have.

However, when I'm talking to other mers I don't call myself a professional. I don't feel like I'm a professional because although I perform regularly and get paid for my gigs, I have a long way to go before I feel I am up to the "standard" of professional. I feel like I need to have some "wow" factor first. And if someone were to tell me I'm not professional, I'd be a bit hurt because that, to me, tells me they think I'm not professional in attitude or manner, but I wouldn't contest it because I know I'm not that great a mermaid.

But then, that's me. And I wouldn't presume to tell any mermaid they're not a professional or not a mermaid. I just feel that's...just sort of rude.

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Originally Posted by Mermaid Harmony

mer goddesses

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waaaay overboard.

To be honest, for the longest time I didn't even know of Melissa, I went just "who?" when people kept mentioning her.
And I never was impressed with her swimming videos either, because in my eyes, she lacks the magical, true mermaid feel that Hannah possesses.
For me, Hannah = real mermaid, Melissa = human girl swimmer wearing a tail costume.

I don't want to spark a "who is better"-debate here, because I know this is totally subjective, I just wanted to mention not everyone is equally impressed by the gals just because they have media coverage.

(I bet I'm not alone with my opinion though, because on Hannah's greatest videos, there are always the same people commenting stuff like "can you even swim without moving your knees?? because Melissa can!!", and that speaks volumes really.
You can virtually see the venom of envy drip of those lines. :p)

There is success, and then there is the illusion of success. Some people are really good at landing big things, and others are really good at suggesting they're landing big things. ;) Remember when mertailor used to claim to be a pearl diver at sea world, and Melissa enlightened us that he was in fact employed for all of half a day? There's a lot of that sort of exaggerating and glossing over going on in the mer-world. Melissa did a lot of ground work to promote herself before she even owned a tail, and much of her self-made documentary about her life was done when she was just starting out, and then added to for different versions later.

I mean, lots of people do lots of things but it seems if it's not documented on the internet, does anyone know it happened? If a tree falls in the forest sort of deal. ;)

There's also loads of other pro mermaids no one is mentioning here that out-do both Hannah and Melissa in different areas. Mermaid Dana free dives in the ocean with wild animals on a DAILY basis.

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Originally Posted by AniaR

There's also loads of other pro mermaids no one is mentioning here that out-do both Hannah and Melissa in different areas. Mermaid Dana free dives in the ocean with wild animals on a DAILY basis.

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Yes, that's why it rubs me the wrong way if people always keep mentioning only Hannah and Melissa.
They get the most media attention, but that doesn't mean they are "the best" (however you define that).

And applying the "if you have to say you're this and that, then you truly aren't, because if you really were you wouldn't have to say it"-logic here:
there's only one mer who proclaims herself to be the "world's leading mermaid". :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Thalassa

Wasn't going to weigh in, but I noticed something interesting today. When I'm talking to non-mers, I use the term "professional mermaid" to distinguish my "I'm doing this as a business venture, as a job" attitude from the "WHEE! I'm a mermaid!" attitude people think I have.

However, when I'm talking to other mers I don't call myself a professional. I don't feel like I'm a professional because although I perform regularly and get paid for my gigs, I have a long way to go before I feel I am up to the "standard" of professional. I feel like I need to have some "wow" factor first. And if someone were to tell me I'm not professional, I'd be a bit hurt because that, to me, tells me they think I'm not professional in attitude or manner, but I wouldn't contest it because I know I'm not that great a mermaid.

But then, that's me. And I wouldn't presume to tell any mermaid they're not a professional or not a mermaid. I just feel that's...just sort of rude.

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Thalassa, I think you're an incredible professional mermaid, and I want you to know that your skills with the kids inspire me so. You're beautiful, have a finominal voice, and can convince pretty much anyone with a wink or a fluke twitch that you are the real deal. <3

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Originally Posted by AniaR

I mean, lots of people do lots of things but it seems if it's not documented on the internet, does anyone know it happened? If a tree falls in the forest sort of deal. ;)

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I'll take this moment to input that one very famous Internet saying :"pics or it didn't happen." Lol

After all we are in a picture dominated society where we need pictures of EVERYTHING to believe them. That's probably a big reason why other pro mermaids are glossed over because they don't have all those pictures floating all over the Internet (like Dana for example. For every one picture of see of her I see about 15 of Melissa )


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Well take Raven for example. Everyone only thinks of her as a tail maker but she sustains her life and business on work she does in her tank. She works more than Melissa does in a tank, and gets booked for things just as high profile. But Raven is QUIET. She's not the kind to post "hey I did this music video" and then repost it ten times. She rarely even shares her media coverage when she gets it, and is quite selective of what they share on the page. But because I know her well, I know all the inside stuff she gets to do and how insanely successful their company is.

Dana posts daily, but she doesn't flood Facebook with the same images over and over, or spam with images that arent hers. She's been published in books too.

Linden has done just as many TV appearances as Hannah.


Raven got Melissa her first gig before she even owned a tail...put her in one of her own. There's a photo out there of the two of them in Raven's tails that seems to have dissapeared from Melissa's page.

I guess my point is- yet again- that it's all relative. Just because someone is loud, does not mean they are the best. And don't get me started on giving self titles like the World's Best etc.

Okay... It's 4 AM and I really don't feel like reading the last... ten posts or so. I think I get the gist of it. @.@

So, I was once told by my flute teacher: If you're paid to do something, you're professional. Doesn't mean you're good, but you're a "professional."

THERE I SAID IT.

Also, I'm technically a professional crocheter... I get paid to crochet. Not on a daily, feed myself basis, but I do sell things.

AND (Then I'm done for the night and can come back and realise how sleepy I was)... I've recently started calling myself a professional mermaid. While I haven't started doing any gigs yet, I plan on doing them. If I just go around telling people that I'm a mermaid and I can do parties around here, they get weird. If I tell them that I am a professional mermaid and am available as entertainment for parties and events, they take me a lot more seriously about it. I've had some people MAJORLY pick apart what I can do. Just how things are around here. :-/

So, like it has been said: Majorly subjective and I think we all get the point.

NIGHT ALL. Sleepy mermaid is OUT <3

XD