The First Ever (soon to be) Published Study on Mermaid Tail Swimming and Tails

I'll be using this thread to dump updates, photos, and videos, on our study which is lined up to be the first ever done on mermaid tails and mermaid tail swimming.

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Today was a mermazing day and we just need to thank so many people. Our team is participating in the FIRST EVER published study that looks at mermaid tails! We are working with a group of engineers, staff, and students, from Dalhousie University in the Aquatron based at the Steele Ocean Science Building. Thank you to the Aquatron team, to the engineers, to students, to faculty, and tothe Mermaids too for making this possible. We gathered some amazing data today and combining science with mermaid tails is one of the coolest things ever. Thank you to Merbellas Studios Inc who gave permission to have their tails be the center of this first study... soon to be published. The data we're getting is going to change the tail making, tail swimming, and monofin world. So amazing to be part of something like this, and to have access to such an awesome facility. (Image posted with permission of all involved, and the University.)

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I'll post more specific info once I get my photos ready to post up!

That's so exciting. Sounds super interesting....

Grats Raina! Hopefully something like this is more solid information for tail bans. And people to do actual research of it, rather relying on that one video on youtube, and media scares. Cos that's what got Australian pools in a tizzy over it. Fear, ignorance, the media being misinformed and scaring everyone causing tail bans. Everyone insisting they'll drown in one.
*sigh*
I do hope too, that the Australian Lifeguards read your study and make a proper decision over it, instead of being scared to make a point.

You can see all our photos in total here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2223161&type=3

Here's a few highlights, video coming once the aquatron's PR people approve it

Doing a wet study in the winter sure is fun...
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I get measured to help calculate speed
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Mimi provides a baseline testing for only a finis rapid
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Mimi gets machine hooked up to her leg to measure speed and distance
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Mimi just had a baby and had to retire her old tail. While we save up to buy her a new one she used my old one which is too short on her, but she made it work.

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Ama is ready to go

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Measuring Mimi (spoiler alert, she's long)

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She's ready to go ;)

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Mimi does a swim test

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Ama does a front flip test

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Mimi does a speed test, swam so fast she swam out of the tail

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Ama is happy even in freezing water

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Mimi hits bottom

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Nessie suits up

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Victoria gets suited up with the machine

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Victoria is happy to be in a tail

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Nessie does her speed test

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Victoria speed test

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Nessie roll test

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Victoria Roll test

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Nessie front flip test

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Victoria front flip test

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I get suited up with a machine

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being measured

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Mimi and I get ready to compare tail with monofins

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Behind the scenes

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My roll test

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Mimi

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My front flip test

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fast turn testing

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behind the scenes

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Mimi does a free form dolphin kick test

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the group

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Very cool! Wouldn't the extra drag from Mimi's tail not fitting properly be an issue for the data?

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It didnt really create any drag honestly when it was measured. Youd be surprised what did and what didnt this first time around! Mine has far more drag than I realized!!!

What an awesome study! I am super excited to see your results! I love your new logo by the way. ;)

thank you, daphne made it :)

THIS IS SO COOL! I can't wait to read the findings! You are a pioneer, Raina! Way to go, Team Halifax! :mermaid kiss:

to be clear : we're only working with merbellas studios, and with finis at this time. not all details of our study can be public at this time. I am a participant, not organizing it. And this is just one session so far of a year long study. :)

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Originally Posted by AniaR

It didnt really create any drag honestly when it was measured. Youd be surprised what did and what didnt this first time around! Mine has far more drag than I realized!!!

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Interesting! Can't wait to find out more~

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This is pretty interesting. I can't wait to see what results come in.

This is sososososo cool.

Like. I'm not even articulate, I'm so excited about what this study could bring about!

This is really cool! I can't wait to see what comes out of it!

The scientist in me is so excited! I imagine extra fins create extra drag. They look so pretty but I'm considering sacrificing fancy fin add ons for free diving performance. Would be great to know how fluke shape affects performance! Too bad they can't test different monofins, that probably has the biggest effect.

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Originally Posted by HamptonsMermaid

The scientist in me is so excited! I imagine extra fins create extra drag. They look so pretty but I'm considering sacrificing fancy fin add ons for free diving performance. Would be great to know how fluke shape affects performance! Too bad they can't test different monofins, that probably has the biggest effect.

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Our extra fins we do have are super tiny, I dont find they make a difference personally (not sure what the data will say) I mean, fish have extra little fins too haha. But when I see other tails (not ours) with giant fins on the side etc I know they create drag for sure.

just from what I experienced doing the study (again, not official data) the monofin and fluke type seemed to really be the things creating drag. Mimi was even able to go faster in bare feet no monofin than one of the tails lol.

The aeronautical engineer in me is really interested in this. (Don't let the "aero" fool you. I work with water too, for example, I designed the propeller, shroud, and body shape of this: http://www.rasmuscatalog.com/cgi-bin...asmus764/11232).
Are you doing anything to separate the effects of drag from the effects of propulsion efficiency? For example, do you get up to speed, the put yourself into your best glide position, and see how quickly you slow down?
Looking forward to results!

keep in mind, I am not a scientist or engineer running the study, I am a participant in the study, and not all details can be discussed until the study is published bahah. so there's me side stepping your question.

Understood. Is it OK if you, as a participant, tell us if you did a coast-down test?

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Originally Posted by Merman Storm

Understood. Is it OK if you, as a participant, tell us if you did a coast-down test?

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Yes coast down would be great! This is what I want to know more about for freediving, where your goal is to use the least amount of energy/oxygen. I might be able to find some research specific to monofins, but would like to know more about how it translates to tails.

For example, I've already found some good information from triathlon wetsuits. I did the swim leg of a triathlon once and the wetsuits are usually designed to be super smooth and floaty like a seal. But a new study tested over 100 prototypes and found that certain embossed patterns of neoprene are actually better than flat.

As you can see, some of these are almost scale like, and they probably are inspired a lot by nature who always figures out the most efficient way! But maybe one could design a mermaid scale pattern that also decreases water resistance (though the design might have to be really tiny to work, which wouldn't be as aesthetically pleasing as big scales, and I don't know about the friction difference between neoprene and silicone...but food for thought!)

Attachment 35609

"Battle plane wing pattern distributes water via up to 60 degrees (angle).
Honeycomb geometry pattern distributes water in equal 60 degree directions.
Inverted wing pattern can partly heighten water resistance through movement of inner arms."

Well, there have actually been swimsuits with a shark-skin-like pattern embossed. They apparently worked so well that they were banned in competitive swimming some years ago :P .
EDIT: Found the swimsuit. The one getting the most media attention was, as I recall, the LZR from Speedo, which led to some FINA rule changes in 2010.
Even if Wikipedia is no prime source, here is the article to that suit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer
Started quite a hype in bionics/biomimikry back then :P

Sent from my phonebrick using Tapatalk.

Good thing Mermaids aren't competitive then! Or are they? Who's down for the Mermaid Olympics?!

One small question: Why did they measure your overall length? Are they correlating the length to the fluke parameters?
Sent from my phonebrick using Tapatalk.

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Originally Posted by Merman Storm

Understood. Is it OK if you, as a participant, tell us if you did a coast-down test?

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everything for coast down test I can find online says it's a test for cars. Haha so I am going to say no? I even googled it with key phrases like swimming, and nope. Still cars.

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Originally Posted by MermanOliver

One small question: Why did they measure your overall length? Are they correlating the length to the fluke parameters?
Sent from my phonebrick using Tapatalk.

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it is part of a formula :) I think the video will answer some more questions when you see things being done in context (still working on it)

but I really can't answer too many specifics at this point. This was only 1 day of gathering data. We have a lot more ahead of us.

You're right that it is a test developed for cars, as it is an easy way to get the drag of a car. It also lets you distinguish between rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag. Rolling resistance dominates at low speeds, and aerodynamic drag at high speeds. Measuring the deceleration rate at all speeds lets you find each term.
There are very few vehicles for which a coast down test would work. You cannot use it for aircraft, as it would be very difficult to keep the altitude constant. It could be used with blimps and submarines, but I've never heard anyone doing so.
A swimming person may actually be one of the few other "vehicles" that a coast down test would would work for. It would let you tell the difference between a tail that is poor at delivering thrust, but has low drag vs one that makes good thrust, but has high drag. It would help answer the question "why am I going slow, and what should I do to go faster?"

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Originally Posted by Merman Storm

You're right that it is a test developed for cars, as it is an easy way to get the drag of a car. It also lets you distinguish between rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag. Rolling resistance dominates at low speeds, and aerodynamic drag at high speeds. Measuring the deceleration rate at all speeds lets you find each term.
There are very few vehicles for which a coast down test would work. You cannot use it for aircraft, as it would be very difficult to keep the altitude constant. It could be used with blimps and submarines, but I've never heard anyone doing so.
A swimming person may actually be one of the few other "vehicles" that a coast down test would would work for. It would let you tell the difference between a tail that is poor at delivering thrust, but has low drag vs one that makes good thrust, but has high drag. It would help answer the question "why am I going slow, and what should I do to go faster?"

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from all my googling it doesnt seem that this is in any way a standard for how they test drag underwater. So I will say no, we did not do testing in that manner, however we are testing drag with people who specialize in hydrodynamics. Again, only 1 day of testing. So we have not even come close to covering it all.

It's not a standard way of testing drag. But as long as there were swimmers with speed sensors, it would be a way to try it. You could learn something.
My guess is you will be doing tow testing, which is the standard for hydrodynamics, and can get good results.

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But as long as there were swimmers with speed sensors, it would be a way to try it. You could learn something.

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Testing a new test that's not used that way, is a study all it's own. As I said, we're participants not the ones deciding the parameters of the study. I'll leave all that to the experts. I trust their methods and expertise.

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Originally Posted by HamptonsMermaid

wetsuits are usually designed to be super smooth and floaty like a seal. But a new study tested over 100 prototypes and found that certain embossed patterns of neoprene are actually better than flat.

As you can see, some of these are almost scale like, and they probably are inspired a lot by nature who always figures out the most efficient way! But maybe one could design a mermaid scale pattern that also decreases water resistance (though the design might have to be really tiny to work, which wouldn't be as aesthetically pleasing as big scales, and I don't know about the friction difference between neoprene and silicone...but food for thought!)

Attachment 35609

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Yes, it's true that bumpiness can actually enable things to move faster through a fluid (water or air) than a smooth surface.

Science geekiness follows here:

Dimples or raised textures can improve hydrodaynamics, or aerodynamics, by breaking up the boundary layer (the thin layer of fluid against the solid surface of the object) so that instead of flow being laminar (smooth) it becomes turbulent. A turbulent boundary layer allows water displaced by movement through the fluid to travel further around the object before it breaks away from the surface and forms a wake. This means that less energy is used in total moving through the fluid.

Perhaps the best known example of this phenomenon is golf balls. The little dimples on golf balls are there for exactly the purpose described above, and smooth golf balls travel nowhere near as far when hit with the same force. This video compares dimpled and smooth golf balls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZsvpw-JOO0

If you watched the last winter Olympics, you might have noticed that many of the speed skating suits had either raised lines called riblets, or patterns of raised dots printed onto various areas, especially the hoods. This is for the same reasons of aerodynamics. Here's an article on that

http://fuckyeahfluiddynamics.tumblr....ce-against-the

and for the people who really want to go full geek into the topic, this article has an extensive analysis of the concepts

http://www.biketechreview.com/aerody...yers?showall=1

So yes, dimples or bumps can actually make a suit flow much better through the water or the air, and I find the results you quoted, Hamptons Mermaid, are entirely believable. I and companions have tried the textured neoprenes, but the issue was that they weren't very good neoprene compared to some of the top end brands like Yamamoto, and I found that comfort and fit still count for a lot, especially warmth. Now if only we could talk Yamamoto or Heiwa into making a really good freediving neoprene with texture on the outer surface http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yk-OCBhm6V...th_zwemmen.gif

I was trying to find a "dimpled" wetsuit for some time (yaaaay speed) but could not find one.
Apparently, due to the ban by FINA or whatever, they are no longer produced, only the swim shorties.

Reading reviews of said shorties, it seemed like the speed increase was negligible for normal use, it would only be useful for competitions where milliseconds determine the outcome.

Regarding the study, this will be super interesting to read I'm sure.
I've been collecting data myself for swimming in different monofins, tails, and without for some time now to determine speed differences.
It will no doubt be enlightening to compare my findings with your data.

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Originally Posted by AptaMer

Now if only we could talk Yamamoto or Heiwa into making a really good freediving neoprene with texture on the outer surface http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yk-OCBhm6V...th_zwemmen.gif

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Well it just so turns out the article I quoted was straight from Yamamoto's website! My bad for not sourcing (bad scientist! bad!:doh:) And it's from back in 2014 so hopefully they have something on the market by now!

Thanks for the heads-up on Yamamoto, HamptonsMermaid!

Definitely going to find out if someone will source this to make a freediving wetsuit.

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Originally Posted by MermanOliver

Well, there have actually been swimsuits with a shark-skin-like pattern embossed. They apparently worked so well that they were banned in competitive swimming some years ago

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Originally Posted by Echidna

I was trying to find a "dimpled" wetsuit for some time (yaaaay speed) but could not find one.
Apparently, due to the ban by FINA or whatever, they are no longer produced, only the swim shorties.

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FINA has shut down every innovation in the world of swimming:

• full-body suits designed to reduce muscle ripple,
• low-permeability suits,
• suits with patterned surfaces, and
• they even banned those integrated swim cap/goggles combinations that gave swimmers as high as a 2% drag reduction.

In their fetish for trying to keep the sport "pure" based only on athlete training, they've retarded technological progress that could have been amazing.

I know why I don't give money to people associated with them in order to obtain a "certificate" (paying for a course beforehand for something I can already do).
Can only hope that they or someone like-minded won't get their paws on mermaiding, then starting to come up with ridiculous regulations as well.

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Originally Posted by Echidna

I know why I don't give money to people associated with them in order to obtain a "certificate" (paying for a course beforehand for something I can already do).
Can only hope that they or someone like-minded won't get their paws on mermaiding, then starting to come up with ridiculous regulations as well.

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did you mean for this to be posted in the swim school thread? :p

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Originally Posted by AptaMer

FINA has shut down every innovation in the world of swimming:

• full-body suits designed to reduce muscle ripple,
• low-permeability suits,
• suits with patterned surfaces, and
• they even banned those integrated swim cap/goggles combinations that gave swimmers as high as a 2% drag reduction.

In their fetish for trying to keep the sport "pure" based only on athlete training, they've retarded technological progress that could have been amazing.

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Its not just swimming, its virtually every racing sport; Cars, aircraft, racing shells, bicycles, sailing, and so on. Having worked with several racing groups, I can understand their reasoning.

First, they they want to get rid of "I win" buttons. That is, someone who shows up with something new that is so good, they are virtually guaranteed a win, thus rendering all the years of effort by every other team irrelevant. If you are on the team with the "I win" button, its great. But most participants are on some other team, and majority rules.
One way around the "I win" button is to only allow innovations that are known and available to everyone. But then to be competitive, everyone must use the innovation. Result: everyone is on equal footing, just like they were before the innovation was incorporated. But, everyone spent more money. So why allow it at all? Save everyone some money by disallowing it. That's the second main reason: cost savings. Racing is expensive, and teams are always scrounging for money. Anything that can reduce costs is desirable.

The result is just as you said, loss of technological progress. In many ways, a car you buy in a showroom is more advanced than a formula one car. But that is only because there is a big market for cars outside of racing. Swimming is a little different. The average recreational swimmer does not care if they go 2% faster. However, many divers, both recreational and professional, do care for either speed , or distance. That is where technological innovations should be aimed, at the consumer market, not the typical racing market.

There are a few exceptions, such as races sponsored by the human powered vehicle association.
http://www.whpva.org/hpv.html

very curious of what temp the water is kept at- and was it previously used for sea lions? why is it empty? they should so keep mermaids in there ..

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Originally Posted by Mer Maid Lexi

very curious of what temp the water is kept at- and was it previously used for sea lions? why is it empty? they should so keep mermaids in there ..

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this is the largest research aquarium in Canada but it is rented, meaning studies can come use it like a research hotel. Nothing is kept there 24/7, it depends on the study. The water is kept at a temp depending on the study. usually about 4 degrees c. they heat it up for mermaids, but in winter it's hard to get it past 18 degrees c as the water comes right from the ocean and is then treated.

They did have a research study in there for seals (behavioural based, nothing that would harm them) and they've had injured animals stay in there for a while too. They had a greenland shark for a while, cuttle fish, lobsters... just depends on the study.

This is fascinating! I'm just curious would the drag you are experiencing from your tail be caused mostly by water getting inside your tail and not draining out quickly enough? Will they be testing that aspect of drag (how quickly water can pass through the tail) as I imagine any insights into improvement in that area could be quite valuable in terms of improving drag performance and thus mer swimming speed.

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