These guys just started making tails! Anyone know anything bout them? 😊
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These guys just started making tails! Anyone know anything bout them? 😊
Is there a fb page or a website?
What I know: Alicia and Jim Ward are professional underwater photographers in Hawaii. As a joined company they are "See Through the Sea" and Alicia alone is known as "Alicia Underwater". (Note that Allica Ward and Allie Causin aka Lyrique the Mermaid are two different people- I know that confused me once so I thought I'd clarify!) They've done a lot of well known photos for Kariel and Hannah Fraser, as well as the Hawaii mermaid workshop, and quite a few collaborated shoots with Finfolk Productions.
Alicia was an assistant, with helping make the tails working in the studio, to Finfolk Productions for a while- I believe for about a year. Now Alicia (and I guess her husband?) are making their own silicone tails with their own company, while still offering underwater photography as well. On a FB page comment, it says they also plan to make fabric and neoprene tails available for purchase as well, later down the line.
I was going to withhold this (idk why, I guess I'm just shy). But I placed an order with them for my first tail two days ago. They've been really great with answering my questions and not minding my terrible jokes. From what they've told me and from what they've posted on Instagram they've made tails before, back in 2012, but took a break from that. Also, their past mermaid experience shoot, they debuted two tails they've made and they look beautiful.
I'm really excited to work with them
Also a portion of proceeds goes towards conservation! They day after I put my order in they went out to sea to do some ocean cleanup. It makes me happy because that's why I got into mermaiding, to raise funds for conservation projects.
I'm really liking that fluke design and the tail itself too.
Saren, congrats for your tail order :) Did you take that basic combo with those ankle fins or did you take any additional things in your tail? Did they say how long it will take for you to receive your tail?
Thank you! I did take just the basic combo, it's all I could afford atm but I'm thinking of asking for a matching top. Pay at my job has been good as of late and I think I can afford to add that on.
After the second email Jim said if we could agree on a design quickly enough, hey could have my tail to me by the end of the month.
But I said that they can take their time. I wasn't even planning on a tail until December from Mernation, but the Jim and Alicia made he announcement and I just felt like I HAD to jump on this. I'm very excited!
I can confirm this as they reached out to me ( they thought I owned mernetwork) and personally told me this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winged Mermaid
Anyone working with finfolk for a year would have a good idea of how to make silicone tails well ahead of the curb most new tail makers face....
Personally, I am always happy for people when they get a tail. Regardless of the tail maker. (So Saren, this isn't intended to make you feel bad, but because See Through Sea did decide to message me about all this I feel it's important I say a few things)
But I imagine Finfolk are likely feeling pretty betrayed right now, as any tail maker would if their friend and assistant decided to venture into this without warning. I think the constant insistence of " we did this before!" ( see: one, possibly a few other neoprene tails) along with see through seas own message they sent me ( which was clearly an attempt to manipulate how mernetwork sees things) just sorta confirms all of this to me.
There message to me was before publicly announcing making tails. They didn't say it in their message to me and it seemed like they were fishing for a reason to end their relationship with finfolk. I suspected they wanted to make tails and within a few hours they proved me right with their fb post. Now it is all about public perception and justifying how it came about.
(I also feel a lot of Alicia's recent online postings are to deflect away from this, by timely bringing up health battles etc. This is a tactic I've seen too many times to count when people make controversial decisions. They follow it up with some sort of action which makes you look really bad if you question them. Also the public posting about their mutual friends with finfolk (Allie) comes off a bit manipulative to me as well.)
I have seen this far too many times in the Mer world. Everyone thinks they'll get rich making tails. Everyone thinks they'll be amazing at communication and times.
Well
.. Good luck to em I hope it's all worth it in the end.
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This really bums me out. I just assumed that since they worked together, that finfolk kind of gave their blessing to see through sea. Just like if you taught someone the ins and out of mermaiding and they decided to go off on their own and do their own business and you were like, "fly from the nest my baby bird".
-sigh- I was a fool to think this would be easy and nothing bad could come from it
I know your not trying to make me feel bad for buying a tail through them. And I appreciate all the info you give (now and the many tutorials in the past). I respect your expertise.
I just can't help but feel bad. Looking back maybe this is why I didn't want to say anything about buying a tail. I'm just gonna cuddle my dog now.
Don't feel bad. You couldn't know beforehand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saren
Hugs :hug:
I honestly messaged finfolk straight up and said, Saren is a great person, she didn't know.- and they totally understand that- And I don't want you to feel bad because you're just a mer who wants their dream tail and these people come along. I mean they will deny it all and spin it (I can post screenshots if it comes down to it but I DONT want a war with these people. I just wanted people to know the context) but honestly, how could you know? It all just kinda came about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saren
It seems like they've got a handle on silicone so I am sure they will make you a great tail, and they are really gonna wanna prove to the community they can do this so you know they'll work extra hard on it. No one blames you, and you deserve a great tail so please don't feel bad.
I always find it hard to speak out about these things, because I don't want clients to feel guilty by association or ashamed of their tails. You can't be responsible for other people's actions and made the best decision you could based on the info you had available at the time.
I have to say your reply to me demonstrates how professional and mature you are. Other people would probably fly off the handle.
I don't think anything I've said will change a darn thing. And like I said, I don't want a war. It's just honestly, I have nothing to lose or gain by speaking the truth that I know. And it is one of those things, maybe had they not involved me directly by messaging me I wouldn't have said anything. but because they pulled me in as a clear attempt to curb the "story"... I just felt I really had to say these things so people have all the info.
Of course, this kinda behaviour happens all over the world in all industries. I guess having been a mermaid for so long and seeing our grasss roots start (or sea weed roots?) it just makes me sad that it's become all too common place.
edit: I observe that see through sea were doing photos with finfolk as early ago as January. I would feel really bad for the twins if they were working on these tails right under their nose. I can't prove that but I mean, that's an observation. I did ask Finfolk if they approved of this or sanctioned it or gave them permission (because some people do) but they were unaware of the plan to make tails either and found out when we all did.
That " fly from the nest baby bird" was actually my exact thoughts, I was also thinking that this has been somehow discussed before hands between FF and Seetroughsea, this info now makes it all look quite a bit different... :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Saren
Hey I was just looking at Sea through Seas instagram account and I noticed almost all of the finfolk production credits on the photos are gone. I would really hate to think that Alicia and Jim have done that on purpose but it definitely makes the whole situation look shady :/
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Yeah I am completely shocked and confused too. I saw the blue tail on Instagram first and just now on the facebook page and I instantly mistook it for a Finfolk Tail. I just assumed because their collaboration photos (Sea through and finfolk) are such a well known thing and I have seen so many beautiful examples of their work hand in hand, so my mind just blended it all together as being a Calypso fluke with Dragon scales. Another one of those photos I look forward to and love. Their collaborations are sort of iconic in the Mer world. I have posters and a pencil case with them on! Haha. Then I realised it wasn't. It was a new tail. I felt very conflicted. I barely ever step in on potentially drama-rific things but I just instantly felt weird about it.
I flushed right down in the toilets my dream to make the merman Hawaii experience with them. It's where it should be. With poop and all the shitty lies they have been saying.
I actually commented on instagram about that tail. I asked if it was a modified Loreena/Calypso fluke. They deleted my comment and private messaged me saying that that wasn't the proper place to discuss such a thing. Apparently they didn't like my thinking their tail was a variant of Finfolk's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Jessica Pearl
Oh shit because I just did that on Facebook! When it isn't zoomed in it was hard to tell. And you can't zoom on instagram.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Lorelei
Maybe they thought you were saying it with malice when you were just genuinely mistaken too? How strange.
Raina I honestly don't know what to say other than thank you. I usually feel very small in this community and try my best to get along with everyone. I do respect FF and I really appreciate you emailing them. It's make this little fish feel very happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by AniaR
As for now, I always like to treat others how they've treated me. While I'm really upset about this turnabout, See Through Sea has been nothing but respectful and kindly to me. So I will continue to be just as respectful and kindly to them. I respect their conservation efforts and their photographic talents even if I don't condone how things have played out.
I'm still looking forward to my tail, and I will be happy because I will use it for more conservation efforts.
Thank you Arion. :hug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Merman Arion
I looked through some of the Instagram photos, especially the newer ones. I can still see credits, in the comments and photos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Amelia
Yeah the defensiveness speaks volumesQuote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Lorelei
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Yes it puts people who support them in a bad position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Jessica Pearl
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What's their instagram? I'd like to take a cruise through, as well.
Seethroughsea
I think Amelia was actually talking about the @aliciaunderwater one to be more clear.
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We love their work and their collabs so we follow everything they have! So that's why we are confused and sad :(
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Quote:
http://mernetwork.com/index/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Mermaid Ameliahttp://mernetwork.com/index/images/b...post-right.pngHey I was just looking at Sea through Seas instagram account and I noticed almost all of the finfolk production credits on the photos are gone. I would really hate to think that Alicia and Jim have done that on purpose but it definitely makes the whole situation look shady :/
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I looked through some of the Instagram photos, especially the newer ones. I can still see credits, in the comments and photos.
The credits seemed to have been removed from her Alicia Underwater instagram, which is often confused for the see through sea one.
yes it upset me too. I have been following them LONG BEFORE they even did mermaid stuff. independently. before they got together! lol. I used to follow any underwater photographers or videographers I could find.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Jessica Pearl
Me too, makes me really sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merman Arion
I'm really nervous. I sent in my measurements and I followed all the advice on the how to measure for a tail thread. I'm just afraid it won't fit. How stretchy is silicone? I reckon it's like a pencil skirt, but obviously thicker and more rubbery.
It depends on the shore hardness and the thickness of the pour. I've gotten to play with FinFolk, Mertailor, Merbella, and Kariel tails and of all of them I'd say that FinFolk is the thickest pour but Mertailor's have the least stretch. Merbella's tend to be thin but go on a bit easier and Kariel tails are medium thick but feel the stretchiest. If they make their's like FinFolk it's a lot more about how you put it on. Fold it inside out to the knees, put one foot in the pocket then slide the second one in then unfold it over your legs working from the bottom up. Putting a tail on in the water for me is the easiest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saren
Did you do your measurements from at least two or three different people? If you get similar numbers, you should be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saren
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saren
Don't feel bad. Jim and Alicia are really well known here on the islands. They do good work, show the islands in a beautiful light and have worked on a ton of marine conservation projects here. Also make sure you get FACTS not impressions/feelings from people before passing judgments.
Some people on this site like to stir up trouble and assume they know more than they really do and at some points they are blatantly lying/wrong. Like when someone told ME that the Aquarium I worked at (Waikiki Aquarium) reached out to them about mermaid info for their dive tank. When the aquarium I work at has never had that communication with this individual nor have they ever considered putting mermaids in the only tank large enough for one, the shark tank. I confirmed this individual had their "facts" wrong by checking with the heads of staff and Director of the Waikiki Aquarium who is a personal friend.
From what I have heard on the forum FinFolk productions has had some issues with communicating and the time to get a tail is really long. If Alicia worked for FinFolk and did not sign a DNC with them or the time period has elapsed and she is now free of a DNC there is nothing wrong with her making tails. On top of that she may have seen how their business was run and she may have her own ideas about how to make it smoother and more streamlined. Tail maker communication has been a big issue on the site, that they are responding quickly and professionally is awesome to hear. I am all for more tail makers it adds more variety and options. On top of that Alicia and Jim are both free divers. Not hobbyists who swim to 20 feet and say they free dive, they are pro deep water divers that understand hydrodynamics and what you need to be safe in the water. If I were to buy a tail and I saw that free diving, professional underwater photographers who have already assisted in making silicone tails were making it I would jump on the chance. Congratulations on your tail, I think that Jim and Alicia's bodies of work prove that they have long term financial and business foresight. Don't be sad, those two have done more for marine conservation and the environment than most of the professional mermaids on here but together. Your tail is contributing to a better respected ocean, be proud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coradion
I have talked to multiple people who talked to Finfolk about this situation, and Finfolk is very upset and feeling betrayed by Alicia. No, they didn't have her sign a DNC- they trusted her. They lived together for the year that Alicia worked for them and were close friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coradion
I saw the message from Alicia Raina was talking about (she forwarded it on to me, since it was meant to go to the owners of MerNetwork, Alicia just made a mistake in believing it was Raina and Christomer) and the content was very manipulative. They totally blindsided Finfolk by breaking their friendship off in an email (an email which was enclosed in the same message as well), then in the same day, hours later, they announced they would be making silicone mermaid tails commercially.
I guess Finfolk had to learn the lesson the hard way to not even trust friends, to have people they think they can trust sign contracts- that's a pretty friggin crappy way to learn that lesson. Alicia lived with them and learned their trade; then broke off the friendship, and then (using those same techniques they learned from Finfolk via their friendship- a trade that took years of experimentation and refinement by Finfolk to get right) started their own competing tail making company. Anyone would be upset over that. Just becuase it's legal, doesn't make it right.
Are you seriously hanging on to that YEARS later when Raina has gone over and over and OVER with you time and time again that you misunderstood that WHOLE ordeal? Please re-read becuase you keep bring this up over and over again:Quote:
Originally Posted by Coradion
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Originally Posted by Coradion
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Originally Posted by AniaR
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Originally Posted by Coradion
Talk about beating a dead horse. Please just let it go already.Quote:
Originally Posted by AniaR
What's sad is that I was standing up for Jim and Alicia who have not yet posted themselves and the attempt is immediately to discredit me.
Thanks for making me feel like this site gives people fair chances. I really appreciate being lied about and then getting chewed out for trying to prevent the same from happening to others.
Quote:
Some people on this site like to stir up trouble and assume they know more than they really do and at some points they are blatantly lying/wrong. Like when someone told ME that the Aquarium I worked at (Waikiki Aquarium) reached out to them about mermaid info for their dive tank. When the aquarium I work at has never had that communication with this individual nor have they ever considered putting mermaids in the only tank large enough for one, the shark tank. I confirmed this individual had their "facts" wrong by checking with the heads of staff and Director of the Waikiki Aquarium who is a personal friend.
Dude I STILL have the email. Give me your email and I'll forward it to you. If you go back and look at my post from what was it now, 2012? Back when I said I wanted to write a book you said I wasn't professional enough. I said the aquarium in your area thought I was, because they contacted me. I didn't say the one you worked at. And I didn't know you consider there to be a difference between "aquarium" and "oceanarium". Also dude you can't cherry pick and ignore some of my posts and read others ;) Anyway if you'd like to PM me your email I am HAPPY to forward you this email I still have. It was from Bob at the pacific beach hotel, HE referred to it as an aquarium (which is why *I* did) sent on 10/9/12.
STILL HAPPY TO FORWARD IT TO YOU. More than happy to screencap it and put it here.
The problem is, you are COMMITTED to making me look bad, so you twist things around about me as often as you can in an effort to discredit me so people don't believe me. Despite facts. And you can say what you want about THIS situation, I have the proof of this too. :) The rule of thumb seems to be with you, if Raina is for it, you are against it. I have so much power over what you think apparently.
So keep on keeping on with the hating dude. I recall your long long posts about how my books would never work. Well they have worked out fine? Haven't they :)
edit: dear members this is what I have been talking about. I have proof of all this stuff. I haven't said *anything* that proof hasnt been provided to the mods for. If I have made an observation or posted an opinion, I have specifically said that. People can make their own observations and opinions. With Cordion's dead horse story about me being contacted by an aquarium in hawaii, I still have the proof of that and offer it to him. he can't argue with proof, so the only thing he can do is attack my character which he has done many times out of the blue on mernetwork. He whispers around to people to be careful in believing me because I have "lied" but when about 2 minutes of investigation, it's easy to see who the liar is in the situation.
No, I was not attempting to discredit you. Only to ask you to please let it go already, because you keep bringing it up time and time again, years later, when Raina has made every effort to resolve that whole thing with you. I'm not trying to discredit you- I'm trying to, once again, set that whole disagreement straight so you'll stop bringing it up.
I feel your whole paragraph about the aquarium was an attempt to discredit Raina. Every single time you bring up that argument it's an attempt to discredit her (you call her a liar), when she told you numerous times it was a simple misunderstanding from using one word (aquarium) instead of another (oceanarium)- when she didn't have the understanding that the aquarium and oceanarium were two different things.
I feel like that last paragraph is you just trying to push my buttons. And when were you lied about? I'm sorry as you took it as chewing you out, I am simply tired of you bringing up the same argument over and over and over when it was resolved long ago- if you had only bothered to read what happened with the whole misunderstanding. (And if you disbelieved that, to receive and read the proof that Raina has offered you several times.)
I do not deny that Alicia and Jim have done amazing work in photography, videography, and have done a lot for ocean conservation - and I never did. That does not mean that betraying friends that trusted you in that way is okay. But that is my opinion, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I am just very empathetic, especially in situations like this.
Im sure they've done amazing work, but it's never ok to enable shitty behaviour.
Art is one thing. Backstabbing/ sneaking around is another.
as for the rest of... Whatever that ^ is ... I'm pretty sure it was a misunderstanding (but this happened before I was ever a part of the community so I can't offer much of a say anyway). I'm not trying to sing kumbaya about this, but ya'll need to make like an Elsa and let it go if this was literally over a few years old.
See Through sea havent produced any actual proof that Finfolk claimed they were interfering with wait times, as Cordion suggests. However, even if they did tell clients they were busy with see through sea, that doesn't excuse the behaviour at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaGlass Siren
As for the "misunderstanding" that he's been bringing up 4 years now, I've been offering him the proof to clear it up for 4 years. it's getting old.
Okay, seriously, 4 years? Let. It. Go! Sheesh! Especially when Raina has clearly proven that it was a misunderstanding on both parts (and even apologized, which is awesome of her considering you havent and you are clearly in the wrong too, if not more than she is). Seriously, Coradion, lock this one in a treasure chest and throw it in the Maraiana Trench. This issue should be long dead and forgotten about.
Has see through sea been added as a tail maker yet? :)