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Thread: Changing The Militant Image Of Animal Rights Activists

  1. #81
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    Not to mention Inuit selling fur is not commercial....

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  2. #82
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    I've never trusted Greenpeace, but Patrick Moore (one of Greenpeace's founders) does a better job of explaining why it is no longer a good organization. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpBnJq19R60

  3. #83
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    Just seems like extremists vs rationalists to me TBH.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by AniaR View Post
    Just seems like extremists vs rationalists to me TBH.
    Yep, yep.
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  5. #85
    A thought that just occurred to me: why isn't the Religious Right in favor of the environment and animal welfare? I mean if someone truly believes that God created the earth and its creatures, then wouldn't taking good care of the planet and animals be honoring God? I mean sure you can perhaps make a case that you don't have to be a vegetarian to be a Christian, since even Jesus probably ate meat, but they should at least be against inhumane factory farms, trophy hunting, and stuff like dog fighting and cock fighting, since they talk so much about being "pro-life" and as well as be for reducing pollution and climate change. Wouldn't making the planet as healthy and beautiful as possible be showing upmost respect to God's creation, in their view?
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  6. #86
    I'm a member of a Facebook group for Sea Shepherd supporters and while I generally enjoy the group and agree with at least 90%+ of what's posted, I did spot some racist comments recently about the Japanese: "the whole country is lowlife scum...". That's a bit upsetting to me because as much as I obviously hate hate hate whaling and dolphin slaughter, I otherwise love the Japanese language and culture. Studying the Japanese language is a passion of mine, I have Japanese friends, and I love love love manga and anime.
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Kae-Leah View Post
    A thought that just occurred to me: why isn't the Religious Right in favor of the environment and animal welfare? I mean if someone truly believes that God created the earth and its creatures, then wouldn't taking good care of the planet and animals be honoring God?

    I have mormon friends who do believe what you said :0
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  8. #88
    This is my response to some racist comments in the SSCS group saying all Japanese are bad/support whaling, send me good vibes that it goes over well:
    "I'm a Sea Shepherd supporter, vegetarian, and of course strongly opposed to Japan's whaling, dolphin slaughter, and unsustainable fishing practices and am all for stopping the cruelty, but I don't think it's fair to say *all* individual Japanese support whaling. In a survey of the Japanese public carried out in April of 2014, 24% of the public indicated that they are against the continuation of so-called "scientific" whaling. 37% of respondents "do not eat whale". We have every right to be angry with the Japanese government and the whalers and dolphin murderers themselves and if someone wishes to boycott everything Japanese, they're well within their rights, but let's just not say that the *entire country* is behind it. Even Captain Paul Watson himself has said that they have Japanese crew members." I linked to this study: http://mansfieldfdn.org/.../M.-Strausz-AOPD-Commentary...
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  9. #89
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    Princess Kae-leah Although I can't speak for all Christians nor everyone on the right, I can give you some reasons that they have.

    Firstly, why do we seem to not care about the environment? We do. We just don't put our faith label on it. We don't say "I'm a Christian, and I am for stopping animal cruelty." We don't because we shouldn't have to. Why should we have to? Many of us on the right like to do things to help the environment within our own lives or the lives of those around us. We believe change is best if it happens locally and gradually, and that revolution of the masses can cause major harm. Some of the things we do are: not littering, trying not to waste, set quotas for animals we hunt, using the meat we hunt, and giving people a reason to protect the environment besides because it could do harm to us in the future. In short, our thought on the environment is be careful, considerate, and rational. We also try to persuade rather then force of law. Many of these methods I just listed are either too soft or against the thoughts of many environmentalists on the left. We also see humans as higher then animals. Thus helping people is a higher priority. Animal farming feeds a lot of people, so it is a better option. Most of us believe that meat is a natural part of our diet, and is essential to our health (of course we know that it can be detrimental if not in the right moderation). We are against animal fighting competitions. I don't know anyone on the right that is for them. If an animal fight ring was busted, many of us would be fine with them being put in jail for a long time. It is not a big problem right now, so we see it as low on the list of things needing to be done. Most importantly of all, nature is God's gift to us but we must always remember that is only just that. To care too much for the creation and too little for the creator is to make nature an idol. Keeping God's gift of nature is pleasing to him, but bringing another person to him is far greater.


    When it comes to whales and dolphins, I would have to research it before I could make a reasonable opinion. To me, if you hunt something, you should follow three rules. The first is never hunt it to the point that you are hurting the species. Make sure that what you are doing is sustainable. Secondly, Kill the animal as quickly as possible. Thirdly, use as much of the animal as you can. If they are following all three, chances are that things will be just fine, but ignoring any of them, there is a great chance they are doing harm. From what I saw, I am not sure if they were violating the first rule, but the second and third I am pretty certain they are. So I would say on that alone it is not something I would support at all.
    Last edited by TritonsGuard; 03-11-2016 at 01:43 AM.

  10. #90
    Ugh, I posted an article about how in Japan 200 pregnant whales were killed, and someone responded with "the US should bomb Japan". While it should go pretty much without saying that I strongly believe what happened is very wrong and should be stopped, I just can't get on board with wishing violence on an entire country for the actions of a relative few. It's completely unnecessary and actually pretty freaking racist. I actually banned this person from my mer-page, something I don't do very often because I'm about love, love for animals, love for the planet, love for other people, not hate and negativity.
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  11. #91
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    I applaud you for doing what you did, and not at all is it because I believe it puts you on my side of this subject. I would have done the same thing if one advocated violence of the opposition in furtherance of a cause I stood for. By not tolerating that kind of behavior, you have shown yourself to be civil. That is something I greatly respect, even from someone I don't always agree with.

  12. #92
    Here are some topics where I think my personal views don't completely fall in line with the militant vegan/ARA party line:
    *Some vegans/ARAs think horsebackriding is always inherently cruel and abusive. I've never been into horse-riding myself, so I'm far from an expert on that particular issue, but I dunno, it just seems very extreme to assume horses never enjoy it or that all riders are abusive, as some people into horsebackriding seem to really love their horses. I think it certainly CAN be abusive though, and am open to hearing all sides on that issue, as I feel on the fence, so to speak.
    *I personally avoid real fur and real leather like the plague, but I'm more on the fence about wool and silk. I've heard a lot on both sides about wool, and there was some controversy a while back about a PETA campaign that exaggerated the cruelty in the wool industry, and I appreciate that sheep don't directly have to die to give wool, but I'm still not entirely 100% comfortable with wearing an animal's hair as clothing.
    *Honey and bee products such as beeswax are avoided by ethical vegans, but I personally would rather use skin care products and lip balm made from beeswax than a bunch of weird synthetic chemicals(big fan of Burt's Bee products here!), although I do prefer synthetics no matter what where some other stuff is concerned that aforementioned fur/leather, especially since while I respect insects as very vital creatures to the ecosystem, they're the animals I have the least sentimental attachment to. I can understand the ethical consistency argument of avoiding all animal-derived products like honey/beeswax and silk, but I guess I'm a little bit speciesist as it doesn't bother me quite as much as products derived from mammals, fish, birds, etc. Some say beekeeping is actually beneficial to the environment, while some say that it's really not, so I guess again I'm kind of on the fence about that issue.
    *I find it kind of ableist to be against well-treated service animals, as I know what an important role service animals can play in disabled people's lives.
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  13. #93
    A book I think EVERYONE should read is "The Reducetarian Solution", a collection of many really interesting essays by a wide variety of people that instead of a militant, all-or-nothing approach pragmatically advocates for eating at least *less* meat and animal products for many reasons included environmental, animal welfare, and health. There's a lot of interesting info in it, and the tone in most of the essays is engaging.
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  14. #94
    This has been an interesting read, but I feel like some of you guys need an Adam Ruins Everything about trophy hunting. Enjoy!

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  15. #95
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    Excellent video

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  16. #96
    I'm really glad this thread was revived.

    I'm definitely a "militant" animal rights activist.... kinda, maybe not as extreme as some of my peers. But I do believe at this stage in the Anthropocene extinctions, That we must fight for our environment. The US government has already announced that it believes the greatest threat to it's nation in the near future will be wars over natural resources. in 300 years less than 75% of our worlds biomass will be extinct. By 2050 we are predicted to have a complete collapse of our oceans fish stock. Seeing how the ocean gives us 70% of the o2 we breath, what happens when the oceans ecosystems fail? (hint: humans can only sustain life within a 3% loss of o2) .

    Humans have been impacting the earths ecosystem pretty much since day 1. Even before the industrial age we have destroyed habitats. Nearly all of Australia was burned to the ground by the natives upon its discovery. The Sea Cow was hunted to extinction in 20 years of it being discovered. Our Idealogy of Dominance over the world and of nature goes, far back and its a belief that we are wrongly taught as young children.

    Do you know why our current religions are? Christianity was spread mostly by luck. Constantine had 4 options of religions to make the "official" religion of the Byzantine empire. He chose Christianity for reasons we don't know. Islam too, was a small religion that could very well have stayed isolated.

    Now these religions through a lot of chance and constant warfare have stayed prominent. Humans fight for our beliefs and for wealth. The winners beliefs, traditions, and customs are the ones that spread. So why don't we fight for the environment? Is there really any thing more important than the air we breath, than the water we drink? I can't think of anything.


    I do think that militant environmental and animal rights could save the planet. Lets look at the Somali Pirates. While they are not environmentalist, they have helped the ocean and turned to piracy because of environmental reasons. After the collapse of the Somali government nations from around the world decided to use their coastal waters as a free haven for unlimited fishing. Fast boats, unparalleled technology in fishing gear, the Somali fisherman just couldn't keep up. It wasn't long until the waters reachable by the locals was overfished. They then turned to piracy. The pirates attacked a couple tuna boats and soon there was a travel warning into those waters. Fishing vessels decided to avoid the area...and then fish stocks rebounded by 800%.

    I use the pirates as an example for a few reasons.
    1. In the near future we will be forced war over natural resources.
    2. That when given, conflict to protect the environment.. does have results.
    3. In a small scale the ocean rebounded very quickly ( another example would be the Baja peninsula) . How much could the ocean improve if we all fought for the planet.

    I truly believe that in order to save the planet we will have to fight for it. The time to "live and let live" has passed. In 20 or 30 years we will see a rise in Eco-warriors. Who knows, maybe we will even see eco-nations.

  17. #97
    The cause of extinction is loss of habitat and poaching. Trophy hunting isn't even a problem so why mention it. Does it really help protect the animals that much... no not really. Eco tourism has had a huge amount of success turning hunters, fishers, and poachers into environmentalist. Again, Baja as the example. Trophy hunting doesn't have to be in the mix. Just because it can have a positive side doesn't mean that it is the best, or most moral option.

    Loss of habitat is mainly cause by animal agriculture. It takes millions of acres to feed our livestocks. Especially in countries where they still let "the cows roam free". Stopping the industry is what is good for the animals. Not promoting a fringe lifestyle that doesn't put nearly as much money to ecotourism as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCorvidae View Post
    This has been an interesting read, but I feel like some of you guys need an Adam Ruins Everything about trophy hunting. Enjoy!


  18. #98
    I like this forum and all, but a lot of times it seems like people reply to me without watching what I linked or reading what I posted. 😓

  19. #99
    yes, I've watched it. Once when the video came out, and then again when you posted it. Infact my first sentence is a direct quote from the video. as far as reading what you posted...not much to respond to. So I responded with my own debate.

  20. #100
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    I think in any scenario, there are always going to be that outliers. For me, sustenance hunting is always going to be needed until we as a nation address food insecurity. And that is so much MORE than just how much does food cost.

    As Derek knows I have been working to phase meat out but it has been a challenge with my metabolic disorder and health issues. I've ended up malnourished and on IVs. Even after hiring both a nutritionist and a dietitian both struggled to meal plan for me/grocery plan. (and that's WITH meat) I tend to eat the same thing over and over at this point.

    But I do agree with Derek in that at this point, we are well beyond live and let live.We are in sinking ship mode.

    As far as the trophy hunting video, I actually agree with it but that's not to say I am OK with it. Again, we need to address the issues that are causing this to begin with. An extended family member of mine is a conservation scientist. He is either up North with polar bears, or in various parts of Africa with big cats. The conservation science community is actually pretty split on trophy hunting- you'd be surprised how many agree with the video.

    For me it's mainly about the environment. But the older I get the more I am becoming attached to animals and really can't bare the thought of hurting them. I'm hopeful in the years to come to at LEAST go vegetarian and eventually full vegan. I wish I could just be rich and hire a personal chef and give them my food lists hahahaha if I eat something my body cant metabolize, it corrupts my soft tissue and turns it into scar tissue. I am full of scar tissue on my organs which causes inflammation and autoimmune issue and in some cases a great deal of pain. It also impeded the functionality of some of the organs.

    For now though I keep doing meatless days and trying to buy sustainably. I'm also really concerned about plastic pollution too

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