Longer Tail A'la Hook, H2O, Fishtails...

[mermaidondine]

I have to wait until I start my new job to save up and start the actual construction, but I'm designing my very first tail and I'm so excited!

I've been going over various designs, but my favorites for inspiration have always been the tails from Hook (if you couldn't tell by my signature haha) and I've been obsessing over the idea of a longer look for my tail. Like many others I've tried doing research on the ones made for Hook though and I've been pretty unsuccessful on finding any info. Then there's the H2O and Fishtails tails by JMBFX that have longer tails as well, but the problem I'm running into is that those tails have rod extensions in them, rather than the "traditional" swim tail, in which you can usually see the ankles/where the monofin connects.

My first thought to creating this look without the rod extension was using a monofin in the actual tail casing and then a fuller fin at the very end fluke. I came across these behind the scenes videos for The Legend of Atlantis and The Pearl Trident that had the same sort of design idea going on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZRhjYdt0RM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICXiijPt7nw

BUT they're a little too long for my taste and I didn't like the somewhat bulky (and obvious) look of the large Rapid fin breaking up the tail. So then I had the idea of using one of the more narrow finis monofins like the Shooter or the Trainer 1 for actual propelling in the tail, instead of a Rapid/Wave or Competitor, so that it's more narrow all the way down; and then having a fuller fin at the end. However, I don't want the end fin to be really floppy and lifeless if its just out of material (whether its lycra or latex), but I'm also afraid that a second monofin in the end might make the tail way too heavy to swim in?

Is there any way to possibly make a longer, more narrow tail that would be swimmable? Like, cutting down a Rapid fin? (Or would that ruin the fluidity/make it not work the way that its supposed to?) Any other thoughts/ideas as to how I might achieve this look?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[taom]

I like the idea of using a smaller monofin/cutting a monofin to size. You should have enough propulsion for normal use (no ocean swimming or anything like that) and it would slim the tail shape. However, I think that putting an actual monofin in the end of the tail would be way too bulky, weigh you down, and, frankly, look a little odd with the shape of the foot pockets showing through. You could instead use a different material such as a thin polycarbonate sheet (lexan is the best because it is super flexible but acrylic would work, too, as its placement wouldn't put too much tension on it), or you could use this stuff called foam neoprene, which is just like really thick craft foam but water/mildew resistant and slightly stiffer. Really, any waterproof material would work to fill out the form of your fluke, I would just be careful because you don't want to drag yourself down.

[mermaidondine]

Exactly. Weight is definitely a huge factor in this one. I don't want to be weighed down, and I agree that that foot pockets showing through would be rather odd-looking. I do like your idea of using lexan or foam instead though! I think for now (budget-wise), cutting down a fin may be the best route, although I'm still afraid I won't get the length that I really want... I wish there was some way to extend the tail that didn't include advanced mechanics, y'know? Haha I was also thinking of somehow incorporating Kanti's tutorial on creating monofins out of swim fins? Perhaps by constructing something that's longer and more narrow in the actual foot pocket area and then having the larger form fluke develop at the bottom. Like, a Shooter or Trainer 1 finis for the narrow look, and then adding to the bottom of it kind of like how Kanti did with the cut-off/excess of the fins - but with my own take of course :-) Then I was thinking I could decorate the narrow part with a sort of pectoral/small side fin to sort of hide/decorate it, kind of like the ones done for the tails in Hook...

[MermanJesse]

Those tails have kick plates attached to a rod attached to a sheet of plastic.

I made an H2O style tail, while it worked, I only recommend a tail like that to a strong swimmer.

[merboy78xy]

what I love is the way the fluke on the Hook tails moves SO fluidly... it's so organic! I wonder why it's so hard to find out who made them!?

[mermaidondine]

@MermanJesse: Yeah, I had already read/researched the construction of those tails, which led me to where I'm at now: frustrated. Haha I did swim in high school, so I consider myself a fairly strong swimmer. Still, I would never push forward with the kick plate/rod/plastic design for the simple fact alone that I couldn't fasten such advanced mechanics myself! Lol! At this point, I'm thinking the best route will be to modify a fin and use Lexan/foam, like Taom suggested. I'm thinking I may buy and modify an Oceanika fin to hopefully achieve the look that I want (without losing the ability to swim), but I'm still weighing my options and drawing up a fin concept/design as we speak :-)

@Merboy: I know! That's why I love the Hook tails so much! They move with such fluidity and grace and they're so well made that there's virtually no hint of ankles or foot pockets. I love that! I wish it was easier to find out who made them, but I've exhausted most outlets for information...

And whoever it was...if you're reading this...you are an absolute genius! Hehe!

[Odette]

the rigdes in the mave are for better flow. best fin for swimming so far is the competitor. the stifness and wide sides makes a more fluid streamline in the water.
i dont know the effects of cutting a monofin but i know that most propulsion comes from the ankles with your dolphin kick so make sure they can bend well.

[Odette]

Those tails have kick plates attached to a rod attached to a sheet of plastic.

I made an H2O style tail, while it worked, I only recommend a tail like that to a strong swimmer.

sweet! never knew you did that.

[mermaidondine]

@Odette: Well the problem with fins like the Wave/Rapid or Competitor is that they're too wide for the look that I'm wanting to go for. They're too bulky and would stick out far too much from tube part of the tail - like how they looked in the tails in the breathing exercise videos for "The Legend of Atlantis" that I linked to. I want to achieve a longer-looking tube/tail, but that doesn't have such visible ankles or an obvious monofin like in H2O/Fishtails and Hook, but that's really hard to do without some extension like the rod/kick plate combo, y'know?

Rather than cutting a fin, at this point I'm thinking combining/making fins by using Kanti's monofin tutorial might be the best way to achieve the fin look that I want? Perhaps with a Shooter/Trainer to create a narrow, elongated appearance in the actual tube part of the tail, fastened with a pair of re-constructed old fins or another mono with a more mermaid-ish or dolphin-esque fluke at the end.

[Alveric]

In the Hook tails, I wonder if they used something more flexible than a rigid rod. Something more spring-like.

Alveric

[mermaidondine]

That's what I've been wondering... But I'm not very knowledgeable in what goes into those sorts of mechanics, so I don't even know where to begin to figure out what it could possibly be! Lol!

[Alveric]

I'm sure someone on this forum could figure this out.

Alveric

[OrcaMatt]

I have an idea...was going to build this into my Dream Tail(tm) Orca Tail*


*The kind of insane, likely impractical version, so your typical Dream Tail(tm) :P

[SweeteSiren]

I always figured it was something hinged that could move in segments.

[Mermaid Jewel]

Maybe it had a flexible sheet in it? I'm looking at your sig and it doesn't look like there's a rod or really any support but wouldn't that be a bit too floppy?

[Azurin Luna]

http://dsc.discovery.com/adventure/d...-her-swim.html
Watch the video on the site, it gives you an inside look of her tail, maybe you can use some of it for your tail.

Good luck!

[merboy78xy]

frankly, I wonder if the hook tails are all latex or silicone inside.
I look at the smoothness of the movement, and I feel like they just made the pocket for the actor's legs and feet to fit into, but from there down it could all be one thick piece of latex. that would allow for the smoothness of movement-- and the thickness of the "tail" (coming all the way to a point between the thinner fluke "fins" might be what provide the stability that we might assume was a rod or spring, etc. and the fluke fins just move according to hydrodynamics. Kind of how stiff and sturdy rubber swimfins are at their thickest point, vs. the thinnest point-- but both have give and grace to them in the water. I am only suggesting tho. No idea here.
Ondine... what are you going to make your tail out of? Neoprene? Fabric? Silicone?

[OrcaMatt]

My current tail is like that: the fin is silicone with no monofin.

[merboy78xy]

OrcaMatt... how does it swim? Is it vastly different without the monofin?

[mermaidondine]

@Mermaid Jewel: That had crossed my mind as well. Like, something along the lines of Lexan or a polyurethane/foam... Or maybe it was just latex or silicone and no monofin at all, but then I wondered if it would be too floppy without any sort of frame or support? I wish I knew! It would make this design process so much easier! LOL!

@OrcaMatt: I'm curious as well... How does your current tail swim? Is it difficult to swim in having no monofin?

@Merboy: Well, I was planning on doing a spandex/latex tail by painting liquid latex onto the spandex and then working in some sort of netting for the scales. I've worked with latex before - I did a bunch of prosthetics for a friend's film and I've made pieces for myself and my friends for Halloween before - but I don't have any experience at all with neoprene or silicone, as much as I'd LOVE a silicone tail... However, I'm also going to get just a fabric tail for practice/plan b :-)

@Azurin: I totally forgot about that article! Thank you so much for linking it... I will definitely be watching it again to hopefully get some more ideas for this :-)