I'm like that four year old..

[Mermaasai]

Harness scale http://www.smooth-on.com/index.php?cPath=1370
Silicone to Silicone epoxy http://www.smooth-on.com/Epoxy,-Sili...189/index.html

ohhh NOICE ^.^

So lets say 20 is a good hardness... somewhere between a gummie bear and a gel insole.

Is the epoxy what you would use to attach the silicone sheets to each other or just to fix small tears etc?

[lasserine]

I have no idea. Send them in a ticket asking. They are really helpful.

[Mermaid Lorelei]

Personally, I'd look into the Dragonskin FX Pro side of it. It's more specific towards making prosthetic makeup pieces rather than for making molds.

http://www.smooth-on.com/Silicone-Ru...339/index.html

[MermanJesse]

I suggest working with Dragon Skin 10 Medium, first. It has a longer pot life than Platinum, but has a cure time of about 5 hours.

RUBBER AND LATEX WILL CAUSE THE SILICONE TO NOT CURE CORRECTLY.

Use vinyl gloves.

[lasserine]

Don't you want 20 or 30 for the fluke? Can't decide yet for the tail part, 10 seems too flimsy.

[MermanJesse]

I am assuming you are going to put a mono fin in the bottom of the fluke. Does not matter how flimsy the silicone is. Plus you want it soft. It will be going right on your skin. It will also protect your mono fin.

[Mermaasai]

New question!

Has any one tried completely recoating a latex tail in clear alex (thick-ish solid coat) after painting to seal the tail and paint in so it wont chip?
Do you think the ALEX will peel up as well or do you think it will be a good insulator for the delicate paintjob beneath it?

[laamberry]

New question!

Has any one tried completely recoating a latex tail in clear alex (thick-ish solid coat) after painting to seal the tail and paint in so it wont chip?
Do you think the ALEX will peel up as well or do you think it will be a good insulator for the delicate paintjob beneath it?

I've had good luck with this method! I mix ALEX and water together then airbrush it on. Not only does the tail end up way more protected, it's also a little more shiny. It's important to let it cure for a few WEEKS though because if you go in the water before that, the water somehow gets under that top layer and makes it look foggy.

[Kanti]

Thanks for making this thread. It seems a lot of questions are being answered!
I still have a few questions remaining as well but I think I always will have questions until I've
actually bought the stuff myself.

You're seriously awesome Lorelei.. You haven't even made a tail yet and you're helping everyone
out with all this stuff x_x Seriously thank you!

And thanks Jesse for helping out too~ You don't know how much it means to us when someone who
has HANDS ON experience with making tails takes the time to explain things.
I don't think we get enough people like that in these sort of threads.

[Kanti]

Alright, I also suppose I could help you out with the ALEX tail since I'm making one.
My methods haven't been tested since the tail isn't ready, but so far everything I've been doing
has survived through everything I've put it through so here goes haha

3. When making an ALEX tail with neoprene what is the best way to make sure the fit at the top of the tail is nice and snug. I cock a brow at the loose material at waist section of tails. Is a zipper the best bet? or elastic? or just making the neoprene cut and stitch nice and snug at the waist to ensure the fit? Will the ALEX stretch a little with the neoprene to ensure snugness?

I think the neoprene allows enough of a stretch that you can simply make the tail as tight as possible and then slip past the top. When getting into my tail, I find the most annoying part to get past is my ankles. It's SO tight (by my own fault) around that area that no matter how much I pull and tug, it just won't slide past that area. The hip area fits great, (my butt isn't THAT big, but it's significantly bigger than my waist) but since I can't get that extra material that slides under my ankles I can't pull it up as high as it's meant to be. I TRIED installing a zipper, but the nature of my tail allows every seam to show, especially since I don't have a bit flashy fish dorsal to hide it.
I think Mermaid Shelly puts zippers inbetween her tails' dorsal fins so it can help you slip in and out. Besides that, just make it tight? ALEX doesn't restrict stretch at all.

4. When making an ALEX tail with neoprene is it best to do the entire tail at once, fluke and all? And then to sew the monofin into the fluke after thoroughly ?gluing? the fluke section onto the monofin? Or to leave the monofin free moving inside the fluke and instead stealthily allow for water holes to minimize ballooning in the fluke section...? OR some hybrid of both?

I didn't want to do the fluke in my pattern when it came to the whole issue. I REALLY wanted as thin as possible fluke so I decided to cut the fabric off early and secure it to the monofin using ALEX. I was told that Raven had tried this and it didn't work, but if you do it correctly it will. You still need to leave holes at the bottom of the fluke to let the water cycle through, though.
I basically ended the fabric to the tail off very early and only let it cover up my feet. Azurin Luna made her tail in a way that the fabric tapered AROUND the end of the tail, keeping the monofin in place yet allowing it to be very thin. I honestly wish I had done that.
Anyway, I basially put duct tape all over my monofin, even in places it didn't need, to help the ALEX secure itself to the monofin. Once you do that, you can mold the ALEX into anything you'd like and even use it to blend the neoprene into your monofin seamlessly. When you're happy with the shape, you can enclose the fin completely in ALEX to ensure that the ALEX is anchoring into itself AND the neoprene rather than relying on it to anchor to your monofin.

I used a cup of soapy water to smooth and blend my ALEX to my neoprene. You just dip your hands in it every 10-20 seconds to keep the ALEX from sticking to your hands. The end result is very nice and smooth. Much smoother than anything I accomplished with the caulk smoothing tools you get at home depot or lowes. Just remember to leave holes somewhere so the water can go through!
Latex Mertailor tails and Raven's older tail (the one that appears on youtube) both appear to be using the method that's tracing the entire tail in neoprene, fluke and all, putting the monofin in at the end, then pumping glue into the fluke-pocket created by your neoprene and allowing it to cure. This causes problems because: 1- air will pocket inside that area once water forces itself through and eventually you'll have a big ballooned area that will rip your ALEX/glue apart from the monofin. You can poke holes, but it's difficult to ensure that this won't happen even so because unless you make channels that flow through the ENTIRE fluke area, you can't completely keep track of where water is pocketing up. 2- it makes cure time for the ALEX take waaaayyy longer. If you do the method I mentioned where the ALEX is exposed to direct sun and air, it will cure in half the time. The ALEX sandwiched between the layers of neoprene will take much much longer to cure, if it ever even does. And finally 3- the tail will be that much more difficult to dry out. Now that you have a huge pocket that fills with water inbetween 2 spongey neoprene layers AND an additional topcoat of ALEX, you essentially have a place that will NEVER get sunlight and will stay wet for hours and hours.


Sorry for the lengthy paragraphs. Just wanted to make everything as clear as possible!

[Kanti]

New question!

Has any one tried completely recoating a latex tail in clear alex (thick-ish solid coat) after painting to seal the tail and paint in so it wont chip?
Do you think the ALEX will peel up as well or do you think it will be a good insulator for the delicate paintjob beneath it?

I don't see why that wouldn't work.
The only problem you may get with that is that you'd have to re-apply the top coat and it may get thicker and thicker.

[Mermaid Lorelei]

You're seriously awesome Lorelei.. You haven't even made a tail yet and you're helping everyone
out with all this stuff x_x Seriously thank you!

Aww, you're welcome. :>

[Mermaasai]

I've had good luck with this method! I mix ALEX and water together then airbrush it on. Not only does the tail end up way more protected, it's also a little more shiny. It's important to let it cure for a few WEEKS though because if you go in the water before that, the water somehow gets under that top layer and makes it look foggy.

Do you heat set the layer of alex and then wait for it to cure? or are you just laying the alex and then waiting for cure-age?

Kanti- Thank you for that explanation! I'm fascinated with the idea of using a monofin as the fluke itself instead of using alex covered neoprene.
Especially with the plan for my next, unconventional fluked, tail.
So just to be clear..

you make your tail as usual, with neoprene, ending where you would at the start of the fluke.
Then you tape the CARP out of your monofin with duct tape, coating it with alex, and shaping it until satisfied, blending the alex into the neoprene end of the tail for a smoothed out tail+fluke.
QUESTION: do you lay the alex scales before, after, or WHEN you apply the alex to your monofin..
Also: Does the alex truly have a secure hold on the neoprene AND the monofin (holding it together)? Its not pulling away with use or anything?
Finally: So would one leave perhaps, two largeish holes on the sides of the connection point for the neoprene and alexed monofin, to allow water to flow through easily? Maybe disguise said holes with two small flowy little fins.. And one at the bottom point of the tail/merging point with monofin... to avoid water pocketing completely..
Are we SURE the monofin will stay attached to the neoprene? I'm squinting very hard at the idea, do you have some upclose pics of your finished connection point I could ogle?

[Kanti]

I caulked one side of the monofin that dried up pretty well and I was able to carry the tail by the top, leaving the monofin suspended by just it's attachment to the neoprene and it stayed. That's really all the info I have right now. Once the tail completely cures I'll do a swim test and let you know for sure.
This is another picture I took of the other side that's almost dry:

It's a bit hard to see, but this was the side that I didn't leave holes opened up for. I put the holes on the other side of the monofin, but I'll probably sneak one in at the bottom in the very center of the fluke. If you do your idea and cover the holes with a fin of sorts it'll probably be enough to disguise it.

If you're uneasy with the idea, you can always cut out the entire tail's shape in neoprene just incase. Then simply lay a decent layer of ALEX over the monofin, up inbetween your footpockets and stick the neoprene to that on both sides. Let it fully cure then test it out. That's what I did in my swim-test video. The monofin was being held in place by nothing but a layer of neoprene stuck to it. Once I saw that it was holding up good I decided to continue on with my method. Again, once my tail is in swimming condition I'll test it's strength out and let you know how everything holds up.

As for scales, you generally do them before you sew both layers together. You can get a soccer/baseball net or some steel mesh and stamp them onto the flat pieces of semi-dry ALEXed neoprene to make the shape. It's just difficult to make sure that everything gets scaled, especially the seams. I have no experience with this since my tail is going to be smooth.

[laamberry]

Do you heat set the layer of alex and then wait for it to cure? or are you just laying the alex and then waiting for cure-age?

I just set it to cure in the sun. The heat gun speeds things up for sure but you also risk causing bubbles D:

[Mermaasai]

I just set it to cure in the sun. The heat gun speeds things up for sure but you also risk causing bubbles D:

Oh I knowwww argh bubbles.. I might set it up in a room with a small room heater in it and let it cure in there.. should move things along a little faster.
I've decided I'm going to do it... recoat the tail in another layer of alex to seal the deal, once my monofin comes in and I get everything perfect.. I'll update how it goes XD

[Mermaasai]

NEW QUESTION!!!

When making a silicone tail- after laying the scale sheets and it being all dried and good to go- How do you bond them together? Do you cut layer the edges over one another and dab with silicone, using clamps to ensure a firm hold, and allow to cure kind of like how Star was doing in her tail making experience?

AND

When adding the silicone fluke section to the monofin- do you glue the fluke to the monofin some how? or just sandwich it between the two sides and bond them together some how then bond the whole thing to the tail?

AND

When all that is done and you are ready to paint the tail, do you mix silicone with paint and then airbrush or hand brush it on right?

ok I think thats it... for now... @.@


EDIT: Never mind ALSO: I was looking at the durometer shore hardness scale for the silicone, now what shore is recommended?
Shore 00- 10 , Shore A- 10, or Shore D- 10?? I'm assuming it is this one : Dragon Skin 10 MEDIUM 1 Gallon Unit

one more thing @.@
How much silc pig tint is needed to thoroughly tint a tail? they sell them in 4 oz amounts.. is that enough for one tail? less? more?

[Mermaid Lorelei]

Alrighty, I think I can answer some of these.
1st, you can either use silicone epoxy to glue the scale sheets together, or more silicone. Both work just fine.
2nd, sandwiching can cause your fluke to bubble up later. The best choice is to glue your fluke down to the monofin to completely get rid of air space. There are multiple ways to glue the silicone down, as long as you remember that dragonskin doesn't stick to much except for silicone, glass, and specifically made silicone epoxy (which usually includes silicone in itself). Feel free to explore your options.
3rd, unless you color your silicone before pouring, you will have to mix silicone into your paint to get it to stick to the already cured silicone scales and fins.
4th, when it comes to shore hardness, it depends on personal preference and the project. I refer to this guide by smooth-on.com. http://www.smooth-on.com/pdf/durometer_with_logo.pdf
5th, I'm not sure exactly how much pigment you would need for a full tail, but do know that you are not lockedd in to having to use silc-pig. You can find other kinds of paint, including much MUCH cheaper options. I won't give out my personal secrets here, but do a little research and you'll be surprised what you find.

Okay. I think I answered everything. If I didn't, just point it out. XD Hope this helps.

[Mermaasai]

So far the only remotely definitive answer I've gotten on the shore hardness scale was for Shore A 10 medium. So I think thats what I'll try...

[Mermaid Lorelei]

I'm sorry that I can't give you a specific answer on that part. Problem is, everyone uses a different shore hardness because everyone wants something different. I could tell you what I use, but it would only be my personal preference. I apologize if that bothers you.