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Thread: Spines / rays fluke

  1. #1
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    Spines / rays fluke

    I'm pondering building a rather organic-looking "swimable" tail (read: needs to be able to be used underwater, but extreme, or even good, performance isn't a priority) by using, not a monofin, but a composite fluke using hard (well, somewhat flexible) spines or rays inside a thick yet flexible skin of translucent silicone. As I'm not wishing to reinvent the wheel, I'd love to know if someone around here has tried something similar before. Some questions, too, in case someone has.
    - What would be a good way of attaching the spines to the wearer? I fear that just treating them as "the blade of a very cut-out monofin" (read: just gluing them to some foot pockets) would lend to breakage at the tension point of the joint.
    - Would corsetry baleen (well, modern steel equivalent) be a good ray material, or would it need to be stiffer?
    - Would I wind up with a tail performing far worse than expectations? That wouldn't be an aceptable result because it HAS to be at least "swimable". Would I wind up with a tail performing above what I expect? As in, would it be not just "swimable" but actually adequate? I'd be stupid if I considered that result not to be aceptable :-)
    - Woul I need some material stronger than silicone for it to work?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Undisclosed Pod lynsea's Avatar
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    You should look up JMB Fx studio behind the scenes photos (for Aquamarine and H2O and Mako). They had a similar process.
    I must be a mermaid, Rango. I have no fear of depths and a great fear of shallow living.
    Anas Nin

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    Thanks, but those are not exactly what I'm looking to do. They do *look* similar, but they have a very long extension betwen fluke and feet (which it's not in my plan, certaonly not), and the fluke keeps its shape because of a rigid outer frame to which the rays are attached (not all that different from a regular monofin blade), not because of the rays themselves being the support structure, as they are in real fishes caudal fins.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Pod of Oceania Mermaid Jaffa's Avatar
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    Maybe you can mix hard and soft silicone together? Like make the fin tips in soft silicone so they are flowing and the part where the monofin usually is, in hard silicone so you get some push when you swim.
    Formerly known as ireneho

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    Thanks for the sugestion, but, again, while that would work, is NOT what I'm trying to do. That (a harder, flat monofin area surrounded by softer silicone) is how about every silicone tail is currently done. I'm trying to recreate how REAL caudal fins are - a series of structural rays afixed to the dorsal spine (in the fishes; in a mermaid tail, they would be to the legs!) and a soft skin betwen them, that is kept taunt only because of the rays, not because it's hard and flexy itself. And what I was wondering was if it had been done before (so I could ask what works for it and what doesn't). Which seems, given what I've read, that the answer is "not". Which leaves me on my own to try to find the best way to do it.
    Trial and error, here we go!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Undisclosed Pod lynsea's Avatar
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    I mean, both of our suggestions fall closely in line with what you are looking for. A wire frame attached to footpockets, encased in clear silicone (what we've both talked about) sounds exactly like the caudal fin structure of a fish. We share ideas here as a community. You are new, you may not know this yet. Your attitude is coming off as negative to people who are just trying to have a conversation and help you out. As you can see, Mermaid Jaffa and I have been here for quite some time and have seen many tail iterations. I don't speak for her but most of us are happy to help and encourage new mers figure out how to make their own tails but only when that discussion has a positive tone.

    Best of luck with your tail.
    I must be a mermaid, Rango. I have no fear of depths and a great fear of shallow living.
    Anas Nin

  7. #7
    Senior Member Pod of Oceania Mermaid Jaffa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L_L View Post
    Thanks for the sugestion, but, again, while that would work, is NOT what I'm trying to do. That (a harder, flat monofin area surrounded by softer silicone) is how about every silicone tail is currently done. I'm trying to recreate how REAL caudal fins are - a series of structural rays afixed to the dorsal spine (in the fishes; in a mermaid tail, they would be to the legs!) and a soft skin betwen them, that is kept taunt only because of the rays, not because it's hard and flexy itself. And what I was wondering was if it had been done before (so I could ask what works for it and what doesn't). Which seems, given what I've read, that the answer is "not". Which leaves me on my own to try to find the best way to do it.
    Trial and error, here we go!
    If you're not willing to accept ideas, why are you asking for them?
    Formerly known as ireneho

  8. #8
    They already suggested different ways to create rays in a fluke, we aren't real fish so those tbh will be the best you will get while keep the tail functional. Your replies seem like you weren't even really looking for suggestions.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynsea View Post
    I mean, both of our suggestions fall closely in line with what you are looking for. A wire frame attached to footpockets, encased in clear silicone (what we've both talked about) sounds exactly like the caudal fin structure of a fish. We share ideas here as a community. You are new, you may not know this yet. Your attitude is coming off as negative to people who are just trying to have a conversation and help you out. As you can see, Mermaid Jaffa and I have been here for quite some time and have seen many tail iterations. I don't speak for her but most of us are happy to help and encourage new mers figure out how to make their own tails but only when that discussion has a positive tone. <br>
    <br>
    Best of luck with your tail.
    <br>
    <br>They <em>look</em> similar, but they are <em>not</em> similar. The JMB studio ones have a <strong>single,</strong> <strong>outer</strong> rigid frame attached to the footpockets, while what I'm trying to do ls to attach <strong>several, inner</strong> rays <em>without</em> a rigid outer frame. As you can see if you re-read, I've been thanking the answers, yet actually explaning politely <em>why</em> a sugestion isn't what I asked about, instead of just going "no, that's useless" . If that's "being negative" to you, we're reading a different book. And frankly, if someone offers a sugestion and gets angry or offended because being told that said sugestion isn't the best thing since sliced bread, I have to ask, who is really being negative? When *I* offer a sugestion, I don't get offended if that suggestion is not used. My ego is not THAT big. <br><br><br>
    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid Jaffa View Post
    If you're not willing to accept ideas, why are you asking for them?
    <br>
    <br>I was looking for sugestions about <strong>how</strong> to do a <strong>specific</strong> thing. I apretiate sugestions, but sugestions to do a <strong>different</strong>
    thing instead are most certainly not what I was asking for.&nbsp; That's not
    "not be willing to accept different ideas", actually that's whoever
    says "no, we're always doing it this way, do it this way and noy how you
    say!" being not willing to accept those ideas. But worry not, I do apretiate the sugestion anyway. <br><br>
    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid Momo View Post
    They already suggested different ways to create rays in a fluke, we
    aren't real fish so those tbh will be the best you will get while keep
    the tail functional. Your replies seem like you weren't even really looking for suggestions.
    <br>
    <br>I was looking for sugestions about <em>HOW TO ATTACH STRUCTURAL RAYS TO THE BASE OF A MONOFIN</em> (emphasis, not shouthing) to try and create a functional fin working on that principle <u><em>(for Science!),</em></u> not, I repeat, <strong><em><u>NOT</u></em></strong>
    about how to cosmetically emulate the look of those rays. There are
    thousands of ways to emulate that look. That's NOT what I'm trying to
    do. <br><br>Again, I see that nobody around here has tried the method I intended to try so can't provide me with answers - so I'll have to find (and share) them myself. That doesn't surprise me. When one tries to do something weird, and asks in a profesional forum (like this one is for the mermaiding hobby, let's face it) to see if one can nt have to reinvent the wheel after someone else having already invented it, one half-expects the "nope, we haven't&nbsp; tried that ever, you're on your own".<br>What I didn't expect was the "you're negative for not doing your tail exactly as we say" drama bombs. Oh, wait. Mermaids. Well, for this I *DO* apologise. I *SHOULD* have expected that ;-)<br>As Cody Lundin would say, "May God smile upon your travels."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Pod of Oceania Mermaid Jaffa's Avatar
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    Its called, brain storming. Brain storming helps one work out ideas and plans to attain a certain goal.

    Yes, our ideas are not what you are looking for exactly, but in the end, you will find that because of this, it will influence what you do to reach that goal. Even the littlest bits count towards the end.
    Formerly known as ireneho

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