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Thread: Swimtails Violates Copyright Use + Other issues summary (includes screenshots)

  1. #21
    I did get another private apology from Kristie in an email, telling me they are sending a check.
    Not sure why an invoice that is meant to be paid via card needs to be paid by check but if it actually gets sent and clears that would be nice.
    I do appreciate both apologies, though I still wish there weren't a shift of blame that somehow puts this all on me for how much people were talking about it.
    I need to iron some details out first but it at least appears that an attempt is being made to resolve things more fully.

  2. #22
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    The apologies Angela got still try to shift the blame on her. To make her responsible for the theft and the fallout. Blows my mind. And yes I 100% think Ryan has some issues.

  3. #23
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    A check??? Yikes i hope it clears! Sheesh!
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  4. #24
    Honestly I didn't think Ryan's messages were bad or anything but honestly I think solving somethings like this using messages and not talking face to face or at least using a shell phone, can make the imagination run a little wild with how things are said in messages. I don't think Raina should have posted and got involved and done what she did because 1 She is not the one dealing with this and 2 she really wasn't being the bigger person from what I see in her messages (kinda seemed like she was begging them to fight her) . I honestly love Swimtail tails and yes they have hit quite a few bumps and need to mend and fix a few things, but I honestly don't think they thought they were doing wrong in the beginning of this mess up and I think a lot of mers are blowing this way outta the water. This is just my opinion and I know a whole lot of you all aren't gonna agree. I'm just getting tired of the waves this drama is causing.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Pod of Cali Saelyyia's Avatar
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    They violated a legal licensing agreement. These things can be very harmful to independent artists and do effect their lively hood. Its past your average "drama" waves, this was a legal issue and when they began slandering the artist who they had miss stepped with they were indignant, demanding, and went as far as to discredit her publicly. The artist asked to have her situation shared because she could not post at the time. This was a clarification more so than an attempt to make unnecessary waves or cause an attach. But many of us here on the forum are independent artist, crafters, etc and these things are very serious to us.
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  6. #26
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    From what I saw on Facebook, Raina shared the link because one of her friend work was being used with no authorization. Ryan came onto HER page threatening her with legal action. He dragged her into this and she responded with what she knew. That just my opinion. Everyone with orders caught in the middle just waiting may not know how to handle what to do but I'll give credit to Raina that she trying to stop people from scamming in the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid Avalynn View Post
    Honestly I didn't think Ryan's messages were bad or anything but honestly I think solving somethings like this using messages and not talking face to face or at least using a shell phone, can make the imagination run a little wild with how things are said in messages. I don't think Raina should have posted and got involved and done what she did because 1 She is not the one dealing with this and 2 she really wasn't being the bigger person from what I see in her messages (kinda seemed like she was begging them to fight her) . I honestly love Swimtail tails and yes they have hit quite a few bumps and need to mend and fix a few things, but I honestly don't think they thought they were doing wrong in the beginning of this mess up and I think a lot of mers are blowing this way outta the water. This is just my opinion and I know a whole lot of you all aren't gonna agree. I'm just getting tired of the waves this drama is causing.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid Avalynn View Post
    Honestly I didn't think Ryan's messages were bad or anything but honestly I think solving somethings like this using messages and not talking face to face or at least using a shell phone, can make the imagination run a little wild with how things are said in messages. I don't think Raina should have posted and got involved and done what she did because 1 She is not the one dealing with this and 2 she really wasn't being the bigger person from what I see in her messages (kinda seemed like she was begging them to fight her) . I honestly love Swimtail tails and yes they have hit quite a few bumps and need to mend and fix a few things, but I honestly don't think they thought they were doing wrong in the beginning of this mess up and I think a lot of mers are blowing this way outta the water. This is just my opinion and I know a whole lot of you all aren't gonna agree. I'm just getting tired of the waves this drama is causing.
    I didn't post anything. I shared my friend's link that she posted, in hopes to educate people about what happened. Ryan chose to react the way he did, making threats and calling names. After calling Angela a liar, she released the screen shots. I shared them because she hadn't had her join request approved yet and it was the quickest way to shut down his lying. You think I was begging to fight him? Dude made a series of posts threatening me for sharing the link. I don't take kindly to false legal threats. I don't have to.

    The only reason it causes drama is because they continue to mishandle it and not be appropriate. The community gave them a chance in the very thread I linked where they took finfolk's designs in the same manner. I was in that very thread wishing them luck and educating them. This is the third time they've done this. Is it really an accident at this point?
    Last edited by AniaR; 03-04-2019 at 02:27 PM.

  8. #28
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    Sometimes it's not drama folks. sometimes it's standing up for what's right. They just want you to call it drama to try and invalidate the seriousness of the issue.

  9. #29
    My thoughts too Gita, let's hope it does arrive soon and is authentic.

  10. #30
    People need to stop using the word Drama every time they can't get all the facts and try to paint a happy picture. Sometimes the facts are the facts and we need to stop pretending there isn't an issue to seem like an arbitrator when someone has a legitimate concern. Drama is a word for people who can't understand the real issue and aren't willing to try. Taking an artists work or threatening someone is never acceptable behavior and we shouldn't dismiss it as Drama, it isn't helpful.

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  11. #31
    Senior Member Pod of Cali Saelyyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerWrangler Sean View Post
    People need to stop using the word Drama every time they can't get all the facts and try to paint a happy picture. Sometimes the facts are the facts and we need to stop pretending there isn't an issue to seem like an arbitrator when someone has a legitimate concern. Drama is a word for people who can't understand the real issue and aren't willing to try. Taking an artists work or threatening someone is never acceptable behavior and we shouldn't dismiss it as Drama, it isn't helpful.
    Well said Sean, Thank you.
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  12. #32
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    Sweety, if you don't like reading about people trying to protect themselves and uphold the law, stop reading these threads.

    You have no direct knowledge of this so your opinion isn't going to be based off of facts you don't have.

    Drama is not advocating for yourself. I can't stand people who claim otherwise. That's just dishonest.
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  13. #33
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    Ps. Usually the people acting like this will NEVER do the right thing unless it goes public.

    I'm glad you've never had to deal with this behavior but I'm sorry, it does exist.

    Also, many people got ripped off. Hence the dozens off pissed off mers.

    You don't get this reaction when you do nothing wrong without 99% of other people DEFENDING you that know you and can prove a history of good interactions.

    eta: you never, ever EVER do anything involving legal matters without a paper trail. Cell phone calls are serious no nos because you can't show what happened. Usually it turns into the fraudster making threats and then sharing their victims personal info on places like craigslist dating sites with nasty messages so that the person either retracts their statements or gives up from the harassment. Yes. I've seen this happen to a LOT of people.
    Last edited by SirenGita; 03-04-2019 at 05:03 PM.
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  14. #34
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    She did try to handle it private. This is how these companies exploit people. I have been in the industry going on 11 years and I ALWAYS speak up. I did when fishbutts scammed people and now they're under. I did it when mermaids r us did too and they're gone as well. Same with mermaid creations. If we do not speak up, it keeps happening. And swimtails already has many strikes against them. They're a public company. It's not a personal issue it's a business one. You wouldn't expect any other business to behave this way and then shame people into dealing with it privately.

    Angela went public after DAYS without any reply. Stop shaming the victim. Stop shaming the people who are standing up. If it's not how you would go about it that's fine. But I feel your tune would change if YOU were the victim of their behaviour or a scam

    Also, I only posted angela's content and my own as I felt that was all I had any right to post. But there are many many complaints and during this little tantrum Ryan (who I didnt even know existed until he went after people) went after quite a few others who have been sharing their stuff. many unhappy people who have never been refunded months later. That. Is. Theft

  15. #35
    It is not anyone's fault but Swimtails here. #1 They used art without respecting the artist, There was no agreement to use the art and therefore all claims of 30 days are invalid. #2 They refused to settle the dispute on terms that were more than reasonable from the artist and cost significantly less than the negative press this Public Relations nightmare turned into. The artist had legal grounds to seek penalties, and was fair in contacting them and requesting some sort of agreement. #3 They threatened the artist. If someone threatens you, you don't stay silent, you go public. She went public, don't shame her for defending herself, I'm tired of people victim shaming in this community. Why is anyone coming it to the defense of a company that operates like this is beyond me...

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  16. #36
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    He right. Staying silence even on the good side gets no where and can actually get the good person in trouble. Believe, I know first hand. I also know this isn't my battle. History only repeats itself when people refuse to make changes. At this time point, I still seen no one offer their time to help Swimtail make tails and get paid after so it's not like there are options. People are protective of their time and some don't want to take the chance. My friend has a betta tail and it's amazing so I want them to recover. However people shouldn't stop giving their opinions either because issues can't be fixed if people aren't given the chance to view things from both sides. All we can do is hope this has a happy ending.

    Quote Originally Posted by MerWrangler Sean View Post
    It is not anyone's fault but Swimtails here. #1 They used art without respecting the artist, There was no agreement to use the art and therefore all claims of 30 days are invalid. #2 They refused to settle the dispute on terms that were more than reasonable from the artist and cost significantly less than the negative press this Public Relations nightmare turned into. The artist had legal grounds to seek penalties, and was fair in contacting them and requesting some sort of agreement. #3 They threatened the artist. If someone threatens you, you don't stay silent, you go public. She went public, don't shame her for defending herself, I'm tired of people victim shaming in this community. Why is anyone coming it to the defense of a company that operates like this is beyond me...

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  17. #37
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    Sharing opinions is only dangerous when people think it entitles them to ignore facts and shame others. That isn't an opinion. It's inappropriate. *shrug* not really sure what you expect when your opinion tries to put blame on me of course I'm going to defend my actions lol.

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  18. #38
    I feel pretty bad for Kristie. Seems like Swimtails was her idea and she just wants to run a company with her designs. Every time Swimtails screws up, Ryan tends to be the one behind it. I wish she would just divorce the clown already and hire a real business manager.
    bluecorvidae.deviantart.com

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCorvidae View Post
    I feel pretty bad for Kristie. Seems like Swimtails was her idea and she just wants to run a company with her designs. Every time Swimtails screws up, Ryan tends to be the one behind it. I wish she would just divorce the clown already and hire a real business manager.
    Right? I have sympathy but it only goes so far. He seems to be at the center of every scandal

  20. #40
    Honestly, if Swimtails had in fact been handling things correctly, they wouldn't care about those screen shots being released. In fact, they might have been relieved at the truth finally coming out.
    They are upset about it because it shows the world their true colors as well as their dishonesty.
    I would not GAF if they had done the same, and shared every single screen shot of the entire conversation.
    You know why?
    Because I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.
    THEY DID.
    So they mad, LOL.
    Mad because now everyone knows just how wrong they've been.
    They can stay mad for all I care.
    They did not in fact try to work things out privately all along, they straight up refused to pay the fee, and coming back with their own offer almost an hour after where they wouldn't have to pay me anything until much later after sales had been made - and probably never even would, is not 'working things out'.

    No screen shots of any of the private convos were shared until after Ryan of Swimtails commented publicly on Raina's share of my blog post with accusations of lying, and after their lengthy back and forth messages accusing me privately of spreading false information & not telling 'the whole story' and were STILL trying to tell me that they were being generous by slightly changing the royalty percentage, still WITHOUT any up front payment.
    It was also after Ryan's laughable email attempting to convince me I was missing out on $100,000 of royalties in just one year, even though they wouldn't pay me $419 for their mistake.
    I had also caught sight of another public post that Ryan commented on, again stating that the true story wasn't being told and how he'd be happy to explain, then that post disappeared.

    The best disinfectant is the truth, and those screen shots are truth.

    Not to mention, I don't think it was really that much of a mistake, when the description of the tails said specifically "Exclusive designs are transferred onto a super-thick flexible & supportive, quick drying material"
    "Exclusive" when the majority of the design of those tails were someone else's art? That was misleading to the public and simply not true.
    As of this afternoon the product pages were still on their site with the images removed and 'sold out' status - https://www.swimtails.com/product/da...-mermaid-tail/

    Do any of you really think Ryan was being honest in that email? That they really typically would make a million dollars on just one or two tail designs from their collection?
    This is a multi-million dollar company?
    Because if so, those ripped off customers should feel more pissed that they have to wait for refunds or product.
    If not, then it's a lie or at best some incredibly wishful thinking bordering on delusion.

    I'm being told that I'm getting a check in the mail, with a heaping serving of blame for how badly everything has gone and a strange denial that Raina said they gave permission for the screen shots to be released, which never even happened. Not sure where that's coming from at all, but I guess getting the facts wrong is their MO.

    I will have at least a little bit of respect restored if a real check arrives by the deadline (this Saturday) and it actually clears.
    However it's obvious it's only being done begrudgingly and to save face, so I still can't sing them any glowing praises.

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