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Thread: Swimtails reopening

  1. #21
    I wish there was a “Like” feature for this comment!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Undisclosed Pod
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    Quote Originally Posted by moomer View Post
    My concern with this whole thing is, who's word do I take? How is any of what either party say trustworthy?
    The history of Swimtails just makes me super suspect of anyone claiming they are the "original designer", without indefinite proof.
    I dislike my immediate skepticism of both parties. But I would be veeeeeery reticent to part with my money after all the drama, finger pointing and poor business practices.
    (Disclaimer: I don't wish to ruffle feathers ((or fins)) nor make anyone feel belittled. If either of the people really ARE the OG designer then kudos. You have a wicked talent.)

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    who are the two parties? Because the swimtails stuff is extremely well documented. There's post all through here with proof, on FB, and the BBB.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickcasa View Post
    I feel like the husband may have been the problem with the business side but using stock photos without appropriate licensing was DEFINITELY design side (squarely her own fault) and now with the dispute about the name, it seems she doesn't respects other people's rights... or the law. I mean kudos for fixing the problem of over committing and (supposedly) ousting the jerk who was messing up other things, but if you want to be respected and taken seriously and, oh, I don't know, remain in business... you don't put that all at risk by not doing your due diligence in making sure you aren't choosing a name that's too similar to something already used and you DEFINITELY don't react by being rude to the person whose trademark you are infringing or even potentially infringing on.
    I'm not sure whether I think this is intentionally ignoring trademarks and copyright/licensing agreements but really the first time WHOOPS it's a mistake, when it's brought to your attention you 1- fix the problem and 2- apologize. You don't double down on your mistake. If she's not INTENTIONALLY ignoring these laws, she has no excuse for not hiring her own lawyer or business consultant that will make sure she's not making these similar mistakes all the time, because if it's not intentional she should be actively trying to avoid similar mistakes.

    I also love my Mahina and would love another tail for it, but at this point I've already got a new monofin and fabric tail and if I happen to eventually get another fabric tail for my Mahina, bonus. I was excited that MAYBE she was doing things right this time but nope, already more drama.
    We have no way of knowing the husband isn't involved, and the wife was just as busy messaging people like Angela and me when everything went down, Faith, others. There have been 4 known instances of them knowingly using other people's IP. You can still still see the thread here where they copied finfolk in the old, let's print their photo on our tails design. And everyone explained it to them back then but they kept doing that stuff.

    --

    Sorry folks I know people are hopeful but I have seen this exact same pattern with SO MANY tail makers over my 11 years here. It was mermagica. It was fish butts. It was Merberry. The list goes on of the people who have followed this pattern and I just don't think they have enough klout on their side to warrant yet another chance from the community.

    Good luck to anyone who manages to get something good, but I also think people should consider who they decide to give their money to and what those people do in the community and how they act or harm others.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Pod of Oceania moomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AniaR View Post
    who are the two parties? Because the swimtails stuff is extremely well documented. There's post all through here with proof, on FB, and the BBB.
    The two parties being the two people claiming they are the original designer.
    Aquarius and Aquariuz.

    I can't simply trust one person coming out and claiming they are the OG designer, and three days later, someone else pops up and says "No, I am!"

    It's just... strange and suspect to me.

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by moomer View Post
    The two parties being the two people claiming they are the original designer.
    Aquarius and Aquariuz.

    I can't simply trust one person coming out and claiming they are the OG designer, and three days later, someone else pops up and says "No, I am!"

    It's just... strange and suspect to me.
    The Aquariuz owner is not claiming to be the original swimtails designer. They are the rightful owner for the name Aquariuz Mermaid Tails and the person who is "the original designer for swimtails" has decided to use a name so similar it violates the Aquariuz trademark. The dispute isn't about swimtails it's about the name Aquarius.

    That said, when there's multiple instances where there's proof that the swimtails designer ripped off stock photos that definitely calls into question the skill of the designer IMO. If she was such a great designer she could use something as inspiration without directly copy and pasting the image onto a tail.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Pod of Oceania moomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickcasa View Post
    The Aquariuz owner is not claiming to be the original swimtails designer. They are the rightful owner for the name Aquariuz Mermaid Tails and the person who is "the original designer for swimtails" has decided to use a name so similar it violates the Aquariuz trademark. The dispute isn't about swimtails it's about the name Aquarius.

    That said, when there's multiple instances where there's proof that the swimtails designer ripped off stock photos that definitely calls into question the skill of the designer IMO. If she was such a great designer she could use something as inspiration without directly copy and pasting the image onto a tail.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    And yes! Exactly! This is my problem with this whole thing!

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  7. #27
    I own a Swimtails tail and I love their designs, but their business practices are just so shady. I would like to give the benefit of the doubt, but the way they are behaving does not make for a good start already.
    I would definitely caution people to be careful when buying a tail from them. Just because they rebranded, doesn't mean that they have genuinely changed for the better.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Undisclosed Pod PearlieMae's Avatar
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    Swim away! Swim away!

    Why risk getting burned after all that drama and no clear cut resolution? Plenty other tailmakers in the sea.

  9. #29
    Aquarius mermaids is still posting on Instagram under swimtails. I dont trust it at all. Giving them a "WIDE" birth lol

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  10. #30
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    I am surprised people love their tails as much to be honest. They look nice in photos but when I saw a number of them at the california mermaid con I was shocked by how the fluke ballooned up. I didn't even know it was a tail at first, I thought it was a weird floaty, then I saw mers trying to sink the fluke so it would fill with water and have crazy drag. I also find the mahina really uncomfortable compared to other monofins. So I guess I have always been a bit surprised at how popular these tails are.

  11. #31
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    The Aquariuz owner is not claiming to be the original swimtails designer. They are the rightful owner for the name Aquariuz Mermaid Tails and the person who is "the original designer for swimtails" has decided to use a name so similar it violates the Aquariuz trademark. The dispute isn't about swimtails it's about the name Aquarius.
    Yes THIS exactly. There's not really two sides, the facts are there. Whether or not Aquariuz has a case will be up to the courts, but based on some of the stuff she pointed out she may actually. The changing of an S to Z may not be enough. But in terms of Swimtails shadiness, all the facts and proof are there. There's just no arguing that

  12. #32
    Yeah they do look so pretty but like you say if they balloon up as much as they do that's so annoying. Yeah the mahina isn't the most comfortable of monifins. I'm gonna try stretching the foot pockets out a bit as it nips on the bridge of my foot. Hot water in the bath and tin cans in the pockets. When I get round to doing it that is. My fave monofin is my fantasea fin 3 by far
    Quote Originally Posted by AniaR View Post
    I am surprised people love their tails as much to be honest. They look nice in photos but when I saw a number of them at the california mermaid con I was shocked by how the fluke ballooned up. I didn't even know it was a tail at first, I thought it was a weird floaty, then I saw mers trying to sink the fluke so it would fill with water and have crazy drag. I also find the mahina really uncomfortable compared to other monofins. So I guess I have always been a bit surprised at how popular these tails are.
    Sent from my SM-G960F using MerNetwork mobile app

  13. #33
    Junior Member Aquariuz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echidna View Post
    is she, though?
    Aquarius is a very generic term (and not even spelled the same way as the other tailmaker).
    I bet she chose it without knowing there was someone who had "trademarked" a variant of the word.

    If someone trademarked a word like "star" and then insisted that no one else in the world could ever use the word again because it's now theirs, well. That would be a bit silly.

    I wish her the best of luck, her designs are beautiful.
    Hi, i just saw this thread, which involves me. Id be happy to chime in here. So, the way that United States trademark laws work is that the first person/ company to use a logo or brand name in commerce is granted common law ownership of the name. You can further establish ownership by registering with the united states patent and trademark office, but it is not always neccessary if previous ownership/use is documented beyond dispute. So, about the names: Aquarius vs. Aquariuz. The names are generic, thats true, but the name is trademarkable within each industry category. Within the united states trademark amd patent process, there are many different goods and services categories ( i forget how many exactly), but heres a few: Industrial solvents, sporting goods, textiles, etc...those are all different categories. For each goods and services category, i.e., for each industry ( such as mermaid tail makers, which, actually, falls under clothing), there can only be one name of any similar type within that category. So, for example, there can only be one Acme within the automotive goods and services category. If another company wanted to trademark their name Acme in a different goods and services category, they could. But if another Acme wanted to try to get trademarked within the same industry, or use descriptive wording attached to their trademark that denoted the same industry, they would be denied that right of ownership. The trademark is already owned by the original Acme for that industry.
    Back to that descriptive wording: trademarks must consist of atleast one name brand...other aspects of name are considered descriptive. So, for example, swim tails owner is saying Aquarius Mermaid Tails is the full name...but, Mermaid Tails is actually descriptive of the product, and not the name itself ( this shit gets a little tricky, but all this is available for anyone to read online, as well as underscored in two conversations ive had with an IP lawyer.) Afterall, you definitely could not just trademark ‘Mermaid Tails’...the mermaid tails part is an adjective of the product, not the actual business name itself. To answer the question of trademarking generic terms...you can, if the name is not already trademarked in the same industry. Someone could open the ‘Star clothing company’ within the clothing category, and yes, own that trademark, as generic as it is.
    As far as the spelling difference between Aquariuz and Aquarius...it makes little or no difference. Trademark infringements do not have to be spelled exactly the same to be considered infringements...they only have to be close enough or sound similar enough to be warranted to cause confusion among customers ( or in google searches)... and her choice of name is far exceeding that similarity. The attachment of ‘mermaid tails’ or not to the business name is not crucial, as, as i said, and have been informed, is considered descriptive of the product. If anything, the mermaid tails part of her choice in business name is only hurting her more, as it only underscores the fact that we are in the same industry. Several of my social media pages say ‘Aquariuz Mermaid Tails’...a few of my business pages and license just say Aquariuz. It doesnt matter, Spas the mermaid tails part of the title is descriptive. So, essentially, you have two businesses named Aquariuz/ Aquarius within the same industry....the exact same industry, no less. Its not even as if shes manufacturing blue jeans and im making dresses (in which case, i may not even have cared). So, yes, the name is a little generic, but, nevertheless, my use of it preceeded hers, in this industry, by about five years or so. Someone on this thread had also mentioned one of the monofin styles that has an ‘aquarius’ version...was it a finis? ...I cant remember now, but yes, I do know what you are talking about. In this instance, Aquarius is not used as a business trademark..thats not the name of their business, merely the description style of one of their products.
    Anyways, whew, sorry so long winded, its definitely been an educating experience for me, and the laws are very interesting. I hope this helps explain why i have decided to move forward with maintaining my ownership of the name. My hope is that she finds something more beautiful and befitting, instead of my generic ol name, so she can jump start her new brand with proper beauty and individualism. Thankyou for your support!!


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  14. #34
    For those of you wondering if the husband is involved, yup. The web site domain for Aquarius mermaids is registered to him.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Pod of The South Keiris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mermoviemedic View Post
    For those of you wondering if the husband is involved, yup. The web site domain for Aquarius mermaids is registered to him.
    RUN!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquariuz View Post
    Hi, i just saw this thread, which involves me. Id be happy to chime in here. So, the way that United States trademark laws work is that the first person/ company to use a logo or brand name in commerce is granted common law ownership of the name. You can further establish ownership by registering with the united states patent and trademark office, but it is not always neccessary if previous ownership/use is documented beyond dispute. So, about the names: Aquarius vs. Aquariuz. The names are generic, thats true, but the name is trademarkable within each industry category. Within the united states trademark amd patent process, there are many different goods and services categories ( i forget how many exactly), but heres a few: Industrial solvents, sporting goods, textiles, etc...those are all different categories. For each goods and services category, i.e., for each industry ( such as mermaid tail makers, which, actually, falls under clothing), there can only be one name of any similar type within that category. So, for example, there can only be one Acme within the automotive goods and services category. If another company wanted to trademark their name Acme in a different goods and services category, they could. But if another Acme wanted to try to get trademarked within the same industry, or use descriptive wording attached to their trademark that denoted the same industry, they would be denied that right of ownership. The trademark is already owned by the original Acme for that industry.
    Back to that descriptive wording: trademarks must consist of atleast one name brand...other aspects of name are considered descriptive. So, for example, swim tails owner is saying Aquarius Mermaid Tails is the full name...but, Mermaid Tails is actually descriptive of the product, and not the name itself ( this shit gets a little tricky, but all this is available for anyone to read online, as well as underscored in two conversations ive had with an IP lawyer.) Afterall, you definitely could not just trademark ‘Mermaid Tails’...the mermaid tails part is an adjective of the product, not the actual business name itself. To answer the question of trademarking generic terms...you can, if the name is not already trademarked in the same industry. Someone could open the ‘Star clothing company’ within the clothing category, and yes, own that trademark, as generic as it is.
    As far as the spelling difference between Aquariuz and Aquarius...it makes little or no difference. Trademark infringements do not have to be spelled exactly the same to be considered infringements...they only have to be close enough or sound similar enough to be warranted to cause confusion among customers ( or in google searches)... and her choice of name is far exceeding that similarity. The attachment of ‘mermaid tails’ or not to the business name is not crucial, as, as i said, and have been informed, is considered descriptive of the product. If anything, the mermaid tails part of her choice in business name is only hurting her more, as it only underscores the fact that we are in the same industry. Several of my social media pages say ‘Aquariuz Mermaid Tails’...a few of my business pages and license just say Aquariuz. It doesnt matter, Spas the mermaid tails part of the title is descriptive. So, essentially, you have two businesses named Aquariuz/ Aquarius within the same industry....the exact same industry, no less. Its not even as if shes manufacturing blue jeans and im making dresses (in which case, i may not even have cared). So, yes, the name is a little generic, but, nevertheless, my use of it preceeded hers, in this industry, by about five years or so. Someone on this thread had also mentioned one of the monofin styles that has an ‘aquarius’ version...was it a finis? ...I cant remember now, but yes, I do know what you are talking about. In this instance, Aquarius is not used as a business trademark..thats not the name of their business, merely the description style of one of their products.
    Anyways, whew, sorry so long winded, its definitely been an educating experience for me, and the laws are very interesting. I hope this helps explain why i have decided to move forward with maintaining my ownership of the name. My hope is that she finds something more beautiful and befitting, instead of my generic ol name, so she can jump start her new brand with proper beauty and individualism. Thankyou for your support!!


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