Monofin for Silicone Tails in the Ocean

[Finny]

Hello all!

TLDR: I'm making my own silicone tail and was looking for thoughts/experience of monofins that would work in the ocean.

The tail can be designed around whatever fin shape - that's fine. And I'm not super picky about whether or not it has ridges, though no ridges are a plus. My main concerns are foot comfort/fit, price and the ability to give adequate propulsion with a variety of fluke sizes/shapes/extra fins all over the tail. I have no idea if this is even possible, but if I could roll the fin and pull it out of the tail for cleaning and transport, that would also be amazing. I'm also looking at something that isn't a rubber fin (so the Mahina is out) because I don't need the tail to be any heavier than necessary.

I might not ever actually swim in the ocean, but I want the option to if I want to. Imo it's better to get stuff that scales easily rather than getting a 'good enough' thing and then having to buy another thing later.

The Rapid appeals to me because of the price point, but if it won't work with a silicone tail in the ocean, it's dead to me :P
When I used to do SCUBA, I favored the somewhat floppier fins rather than the massive stiff paddles, but I've no experience with tails so maybe floppy monofins in a big silicone monstrosity would be hazardous in the event of current?

I am US based, but it seems like ordering from the places in Estonia are still cheaper than getting a competitor (which is kind of sad), so not opposed to going international.

Was also curious what people thought on the different types of foot pockets/straps if they had options. I low-key refuse to get anything with adjustable foots straps because they seem really hard to adjust in a full silicone tail and I have a history of the straps loosening and fins literally falling off my feet while diving (scuba, MANY years ago). I've heard the full foot coverings show less heel in the final fin, which is desirable. I just have weird feet and buying shoes/fins online scares the bananas out of me, especially since they're expensive.

For grins, here's my favorite fluke sketch I've done so far (right side of sketch) :https://www.instagram.com/p/CCrf-bxD_g0/
Not sure if the design is feasible to actually use, but I'm *fairly* certain I could make the thing to my satisfaction at least. I was thinking the fluke would be solid around the monofin to hide it (so no cutting of the monofins) and the rest of the tail would be long but deliberately covered in holes (aesthetics and theoretical drag reduction?). I kind of just like creepy macab designs, but thoughts are welcome on the sketch as well.

Thanks guys!

[fabianfrz]

With that many holes in it it will not work without damaging the monofin and for the style you need a v shape of the end that will not work well so I think your best choice is extending a monofin with plastic inlays because the monofin might break due to the stress on it.

Is you look at the European market, there are waterways, Leaderfins, Magictail, Mermaid Kat Shop and some French vendors (and maybe some I don't know), who offer good fins. Specialfins exist as well but I don't know where they are.

[Finny]

Special fins is Estonia according to the master thread, but I'll definitely look into the other brands as well.

And why would the holes damage the monofin? I wasn't planning on cutting the monofin at all, just adding the holes to the silicone after the fin ends. Also I *think* I could get away with more or less any shape monofin, though the v shaped probably would be easier. But I actually designed the sketch roughly around the Competitor shape and just made a little extended nub from the main body of the tail that would extend over the fin to create the illusion of a different shape. Theoretically at least :P In practice who knows.

Thanks for your thoughts

[fabianfrz]

If you have holes in the blade, you will have more force that will create a torque and on the parts more behind will put force on the closer parts as well. It yould split at the holes or it will move asymmetrical so you will not have much fun. If you are careful, you can safely cut a v shape into it but you need to make sure that the v is not sharp and round enough.

[Finny]

I don't plan on cutting the blade at all though.
Are you saying long floppy stuff extending past the blade of the fin can break the fin??? I was planning on treating the silicone tail basically like a generic fabric tail with some extra cloth decorations on the end, except instead of fabric, everything would be silicone, so it would just fit over the unmodified fin like a sock/glove.

[Merman Storm]

All those thin bits on your fin will need some sort of internal structure to hold them out to the side. Otherwise they will just by blown back by the flowing water and look like the strands of a mop head, streaming in the flow.

As for the monofin, I do not know of any fin you cannot use in the ocean. Ive used a FinFun in the ocean. It works fine, as does a Mahina the Two tails fin, and Mertailor's Spellbound.

[Finny]

I was planning on adding some supports into the little flippy bits, but tbh I'm also tempted to let them blow in the breeze so to speak :P I kind of WANT the tail to rip with time, so the idea that it's so mangled it can't self support is intriguing to me in an odd way. Still haven't actually decided if I'm actually going with that design though. Yay indecision.

And that's fair - I feel like I've just heard enough people suggesting a stronger fin to combat the ocean currents, especially with silicone tails since they're heavier. It also seems like not a bad idea if I put ginormous flukes or extra fins on the tail. But also I like swimming as fast as I possibly can, so the extra propulsion is appealing for that as well.

[theMerFanc]

I believe you know my views by now on the few fins I've interacted with. I would suggest the rapid but take the heel straps off and toss them (or sell it, I know they break, people might be looking for a replacement). Once it's in the silicone and the tail is on, it won't slip around or need straps to hold it in place.

That being said, I am sure your magical mind can come up with a way to do it, but I have never heard of a full silicone tail with a removable fin. The silicone is typically applied directly to the fin and it encases it completely. Like laminating a sheet of paper.

I think you'd be able to fit a rapid into your fin design easily and get the holes right at the edges without damaging or cutting the fin at all. As for extra fins, the more you add the more drag you'll get. But I fucking love extra fins so I always say add em on!

[fabianfrz]

That being said, I am sure your magical mind can come up with a way to do it, but I have never heard of a full silicone tail with a removable fin. The silicone is typically applied directly to the fin and it encases it completely. Like laminating a sheet of paper.

Mermaid Kat sells some where you can take out the monofin as "take away" tails. They are a bit cheaper and you can transport them easier.

[Finny]

Hum. Thanks.
I remember reading like one place where someone was able to roll the fin up and squish it out the ankle hole of the tail, but frankly that seems like a nightmare that would end up with me either ripping the tail in half or getting the fin stuck some weird way.
Perhaps if I ever make more fins I'll try to find a good way to make a tail with a removable fin. That would be great :P
Thanks again for the thoughts!

[fabianfrz]

Hum. Thanks.
I remember reading like one place where someone was able to roll the fin up and squish it out the ankle hole of the tail, but frankly that seems like a nightmare that would end up with me either ripping the tail in half or getting the fin stuck some weird way.

That must be another vendor because Mermaid Kat has that only for fabric tails. The take away are closed via buttons on the end of the fluke.
I can tell you that that works well with the fabric tails so it might work with silicone tails as well but then you need again a drainage system.

[Finny]

Probably. I don't remember where I saw that, just in regards to removing a fin with a silicone tail. Tbh I haven't looked all that much into fabric tails.
I could add snaps/buttons I suppose, but I think for now I'm just going to encase the fin permanently in the tail because effort.
And I was going to include drainage channels anyway

[Finny]

Reached out to a few companies and the Leaderfin person recommended the Junior Sport with a soft blade.
Curious to see what the other folks say
Also I found my clay at last so I might do some random practice test scales and start a tentative build thread at some point.

[Mermaid Fenicia]

I use a leaderfin junior soft blade monofin and I realy like it, but my favorite is my Triton monofin (smallest version of the Hydra, Minos is even bigger)

[Finny]

I use a leaderfin junior soft blade monofin and I realy like it, but my favorite is my Triton monofin (smallest version of the Hydra, Minos is even bigger)

Oh. Thanks!
Are you using the leaderfin junior with a silicone tail or fabric?
I saw the triton, but it's a bit more than I was hoping to spend (and it has adjustable straps which drive me sort of nuts). Out of curiosity, what do you like about it?

[fabianfrz]

Reached out to a few companies and the Leaderfin person recommended the Junior Sport with a soft blade.

I have a hard Hyper and it is really a great monofin and now I have a waterway fins Mermaid Tail Monofin in medium as well. Soft does bend a lot while a hard one is faster. They recommend me a medium one and I went with the hard one and never regret it. For mermaiding you should only choose between soft and medium. Don't forget that latex and silicone also have some resistance as the fin will be thicker.

[Finny]

now I have a waterway fins Mermaid Tail Monofin in medium as well. Soft does bend a lot while a hard one is faster. They recommend me a medium one and I went with the hard one and never regret it. For mermaiding you should only choose between soft and medium.

Ohh! Thanks for the info!!
Do you have any thoughts on the mermaid tail for efficiency compared to the hyper? I like it for the shape but I'm not sure I care enough to shell out the extra money for it.

I was also considering a medium instead of soft just because I like the extra power/option to go faster if I want to. But I also like the idea of a floppier look on the soft. Mostly I just want it to be ocean safe.
I feel like they recommended me the soft because I'm a tiny person (about 112 lbs).

[K Swim]

Ok, so I read through this thread so far and now I am wondering..... Will a normal silicone tail not do so well in sea water?

I would think that you would just need to rinse it really well after use, unless the damage starts happening right away.

[Finny]

I could be ENTIRELY wrong as I have no experience with any kind of tail, but from what I've been reading, they're totally fine in the ocean if you rinse them afterwards. Plenty of people I've seen/read about use silicone tails in reef tanks, saltwater pools & the ocean.
I've also read it's not a bad idea to wash them thoroughly after using them in chlorinated water with some baking soda mixed into the water to denature the chlorine. Stuff can also mold if there's exposed cloth that doesn't dry fast enough, but that goes for any fabric.

The issue I'm more curious about is choosing a monofin that's strong enough to deal with ocean currents as well as the extra drag created by the tail itself, which will be a large thing. Also silicone often sinks and I sink normally, so I'm trying to compensate for that as well. And if I'm dropping the money to make a full tail I'll be pretty salty (no pun intended for once) if it would kill me in the ocean, hence the thread ask.

[K Swim]

I've also read it's not a bad idea to wash them thoroughly after using them in chlorinated water with some baking soda mixed into the water to denature the chlorine. Stuff can also mold if there's exposed cloth that doesn't dry fast enough, but that goes for any fabric.

I have enough struggle trying to rinse regular lake water out of my silicone tail...mostly because it's hard to maneuver its weight, spray, make sure all the water going in comes out, then drying. I already created another forum thread about something I built to help with that effort and am already working on an upgrade to it.

The issue I'm more curious about is choosing a monofin that's strong enough to deal with ocean currents as well as the extra drag created by the tail itself, which will be a large thing.

I think that most tail makers try to make strong monofins regardless. Even on a calm lake, people (myself included) want to try to move as fast as possible sometimes. In my opinion, if the fin breaks early in it's life cycle, I'm done with that maker. If it lasts, I may buy another one just like it if it broke.

Also silicone often sinks and I sink normally, so I'm trying to compensate for that as well. And if I'm dropping the money to make a full tail I'll be pretty salty (no pun intended for once) if it would kill me in the ocean, hence the thread ask.

Yes, silicone tails are heavy, but feel much lighter while in the water. Although dangerous if you are trying to use one while alone....well I'm typically alone while swimming. Does that make me crazy? Most likely.