Pretty eye-opening video. It's a bit long but very interesting.
Sort of shows you that big marine parks like Seaworld and Sixflags aren't really as much for
the environment as they claim to be. In fact seems like they encourage cruelty at times.
What do you guys think? Have anything that refutes this video or anything to add to it?
it's sad, last year when there was a lot of talk about the captive dolphins at the mirage I really invested in learning a lot about captive whales and dolphins. I've decided I just cant support it for most instances, even with poor winter there are videos online that show her terrified of all the attention and literally swimming up and standing on a ledge in a corner to hide
Also, I followed the story of the stranded pilot whales a lot last year. Raven and Meshpa actually went and volunteered with them. Sea world didn't give any help or do anything until there were 2 whales left alive. They took the less sick one to "give help to" and there's actually a law that if they take the animal it HAS to be on display to the public
Im sure there are instances where it's better for the animal in captivity but for me I think I just know too much now to be able to support. I feel it's a real choice too- I always dreamed of swimming with dolphins and I could of when I was in Florida easily but I let the opportunity go because I didnt think it was right. Maybe someday in my life I'll swim with them in the wild.
I might feel different if their enclosures were more aquarium styled and not so concrete and small. I teach kids about things all the time without needing something like this. I'll take my kids out on boats to see them
http://youtu.be/OrZgxGd-S1Q
around the 3:42 minute mark it shows her hiding
Yea, at the end of the video they basically go on to say that marine parks should be more focused
on having live animals only for rehabilitation purposes. It's alright if they had a viewing tank, especially
since the park closes, at least then the animal will get resting time.
When it comes to rehabilitation, captivity may be the best option because the animal doesn't have to worry
about predators, infections, or environmental stresses to mess with it's recovery. But rehabilitation is
the only time I think. Captivity is not good for these animals. They're too complex and don't get nearly
enough stimulation. Not only that but the animals they're paired with may not even be from the same
pods so they may have rivalries and high tension.
Yea I especially feel bad for Winter. I'm not sure if she should be alone or not but I'm sure
if she didn't have one she'd be very lonely and sad.
Her tank is pretty small as well ): seeing her in the corner like that was really depressing.
Though I can't say for sure whether that was her resting or trying to hide? When her neck
was scrunched up in the corner it seemed like she was scared but she sort of relaxed
so it was hard to tell.
I have never supported sea world because i can't trust that their 'for' the sea environment when they can't even properly take care of the animals they have. I'm not saying their bad people, I'm just saying that they can't keep jumping every time a KILLER WHALE eats someone. Its a KILLER whale. And you domesticate these animals, they are wild and deserve to be free. But once they have them for so long the animals can't go back to the wild because they are so used to being fed that they forget how to hunt. And seriously, up the security in these places because the whales wouldn't be eating peop,e so much if people couldn't jump in with them! And how many times are we going to keep renaming all these whales with the same name? He can't have lived for this long, so give each whale their own lumping name please!
Ok, I think I'm done ranting now. Sorry
Hugs, fishes, and mermaid kisses!
It's interesting, but apparently they CAN be released back into the wild regardless of how long
they'd been in captivity. The video gives the story of Keiko as an example.
When Keiko was in captivity he was in really bad condition. Apparently he had already had a skin
disease that showed noticeable leisions, the water in his tank was too warm. He apparently was even
offered to Seaworld and other marine parks before the "Free Keiko" foundation got started up but they
all refused him because of his illness.
Before they actually let him go completely, they had him in a sea pen and tried to get him to eat live
food so he would be able to hunt, which he picked up pretty quickly. Once they had let him go free,
his lesions apparently disappeared and he returned to good enough conditions that he was able to
be social with other orcas and travel significant distances. He started straying from people altogether
and showed no real dependence on human interaction.
In 2002, he traveled 1000 miles. Doesn't seem like he had any trouble in the wild, even after all those
years.
The video and the link below documenting Keiko's history match up almost perfectly.
http://www.keiko.com/history.html
Haha and yea I agree, I guess people forget they're wild animals.
People got so shocked and apalled when Tilikum killed Dawn. Sure, it was sad and really lame that
it happened, but why was everyone so surprised? That whale was MASSIVE and as much as you'd
like to think it's tame, it's not. They suffer stress just like we do, only when they finally lash out, it's
usually not just yelling or throwing a little fit. It was especially low of Seaworld to try and claim Dawn
just slipped and fell in the tank when Tilikum actually grabbed her. It seems they'd prefer to lie and
have a reason to keep Tilikum rather than just tell the truth: He's unpredictable. When you sign up
to be an orca trainer, or really ANY animal trainer, you're signing your life away to the chance that
the animal may snap and happen to take it out on you.
They name them all the same thing for the sake of the kids I guess? It's stupid, really.
I always tried to actually care about their real names.
I have never agreed with captitvy of any animal for anything other then rehibiltation. When you keep an animal that has a ronge of 60 miles a day (I am pretty that is correct for dolphis) in a tank that takes them less than a minute to lap, it is cruel. I understand the need to place dolphins and other marine mammals in takes that small for rehabilitation; I agree with Kanti that captivty may be the best option for rehabilitation. But, when you draw out that captivity and say that the whale or dolphin needs more time, just so you can make money off it, that is horrible.
Tenacity.
Yea, not only that but they're never allowed to retire :/Originally Posted by Bellasea
Usually other performing animals get to retire to zoos, safaris, aviaries, or even national parks.
Marine animals perform until they die. Keiko was the only orca that was ever released.
This is a sensitive topic is in my case- Speaking on behalfof actually working in an aquarium with dolphins and whales and as an animalrescuer and a FORMER Anti, I feel different than many of you, I’ve been behindthe scenes and have done my share to educate people and help sick animals. Notall parks are bad, SeaWorld isn’t bad either. Raina actually SeaWorld was apart of the pilot whale stranding responseteam, http://www.insideseaworld.com/seawor...joe-key-flaThe whale known as "300" (pilot whale with spine issue) who they tookin Isn’t apart of any display at all she’s in their rehabilitation center andis NOT on public view. Keiko was never really free; he followed a boat, there’svideo of him being “attacked" by wild orcas, on rather few occasions. Hetravelled alone for the most part of his 3 months of "freedom" Andwas brought into a harbor by a boat which enticed him in. He had to be moved toan area away where no one could interfere. He didn’t die free, he died in a pennext to a boat dock.
Tillikum, Oh man he's an amazing and large animal until youactually know his history and spent time with him you understand things. I’vebeen in the presence in this orca many many times, as a visitor and behind the scenes;I’ve spent hours observing him as well. ,Tillikum came from sealand in Canada,they never really worked in water with the whales, he was bullied by thefemales and they not only deprived them of food, but in fact they kept allthree of them in a tiny enclosure at night. After the incident with KeltieBryne (which involved all three whales, ) He was moved to SeaWorld. It’s notthat Tillikum is stressed because if he was he would have less weight on him.Stressed animals do not eat, they are aggressive towards others (human andwhale) and start a “stereotypical behavior".. What happened was an accident.Hell even a dog/ bird/ horse can turn on you if they wish.. Tillikum cannot bereintroduced into the wild, older animals aren’t moved because they stress outmuch more easily, they also take longer in learning things. Tillikum is 31 now.Keiko was what 24-26 something in that range when he died. Besides moving thisanimal, what if he doesn’t go with a pod, what if he doesn’t to properly catchfood, as i learned before you subject any animal you go through many "whatifs" and the best judgment for the animals survival.
Tillikum knows the whales he's with today; he is housed withTrua (his grandson) and from what i know recently met Makaio, through withKatina’s and trainer supervision of course. sure cetaceans travel miles, but insearch offood and of course breeding purposes, parks eliminate that need tosearch for foodor possible mates. There are only 5 wild orcas which are incaptive environments at the moment in US parks. Corky and Lolita are in theirmid-40's,Corky is partially blind and has kidney issues. The rest were borninto the parks, The shows are usually 26 minutes long, there are 7 whales, oneor 2perform certain parts and they switch up who does what and whose off show.I know this because we would do this with the dolphins. No whale is forced todo anything they don’t want they are not deprived of food even if they refuseto perform a show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN-dNa2-B0g <example. Thereare usually 2 or 3 shows and 1 or 2 night shows which are spread out hours apart,a whale performs 2 minutes per show? that’s if they want to go out there. Thereare many animals which have issues physical and/or other which are in captiveenvironments, who in the wild wouldn’t survive. Winter was alone at that videoyes, but they dont keep them separatefor a long time, she’s usually kept withPanama and as of recently Hope, thelittle rescued dolphin. Its a possibilityWinter was separated because panamawas doing a demonstration or maybe theyweren’t seeing eye to eye, which can happen with animals (and humans).
Imheading to Orlando May 23rd-28th, I do plan to go toSeaWorld and CMA Aquarium,as i always do. Despite our choices of animals incaptivity or not, I stillfeel that from experience, there are so many animalswhich because of captivityhave been saved from an early death in the wild.
how about this for an interesting documentary:
Funny how both videos you showed not only had a large number of downvotes, but they also disabled
comments. Maybe they don't want people interfering with their "facts"?
The videos are both very inconsistent as well. In the first video around the 3:00 mark, they show clips
of both Rick O'Barry and Fisher Stevens (spelling?).
Rick stated "dolphin amusement parks were very scarse when he started, now they're a million dollar
industry. These parks help create the largest dolphin slaughter on the planet"
Stevens states "the movie Flipper basically attracted and started companies with dolphin encounters.
these companies get their dolphins from Japan, they choose the nice 'flipper-looking' dolphins and the
rest are slaughtered for their meat"
The video, then for some reason suggests that the Japanese slaughter isn't for meat at all, it's mainly
for the amusement park supply of dolphins. Neither one of those people said that? As a matter of fact,
Stevens said that only the asthetically prized looking dolphins are selected, the REST are slaughtered.
So in that sense, the video automatically trails off to provide statistics that have nothing to do with
what either of the previous statements were about. It is, just as it set out to do "trying to throw false
statistics to cloud the truth".
The second point made was that NO dolphins were transported from Japan to anywhere past the locations
they stated. Taiwan, China, etc.
http://www.seashepherd.org/commentar...dolphins-go-64
Hmm wait.. That seems to be a receipt for a pilot whale from Japan at the bottom of the page. And it was in 2010..
Again another false claim by the video :/
Not only this but the video doesn't really seem that focused on providing facts as it does
with keeping a personal vendetta against The Cove itself. The video doesn't seem very keen
on educating people against the slaughter, it's just pointing fingers and saying NO NONO
SEE THAT ONE WORD HE SAID? IT'S NOT TRUE.
Even the link in the video description..
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/8/the...apan-dolphins/
That's a website to try and take away the oscar given to the documentary... What???
Why is that even important!? Aren't the dolphins being slaughtered a little more important
than trying to get some stupid oscar back!?
The people who made this video are obviously just against the whole documentary in the first place
their focus isn't about the well being of the dolphins at all.
The video I posted is not even The Cove. You should watch it
It delves into the matters behind Seaworld and their incentives more, but it also investigates marine mammals as
complex animals that are a lot smarter than we think. It mentions Tilikum as well.
The orcas Tilikum are with currently are not even from the same area he is. Orca speech is almost as complex as
human speech, even moreso the more we delve into it. Tilikum probably doesn't even speak the same dialect or
specific language the other orcas speak. Not only that, but they constantly pick on him and bully him. I believe
only one or two female orcas actually gets along with him decently.
When you think about it, how is captivity at all a good thing? Besides for rehabilitation where they need treatment?
Female orcas can live up to 80 years in the wild! Their general lifespan is around 50-60. Males generally live
I think males live an average of 40 years or so? Significantly lower.
In captivity, most whales, male or female, die at an earlier age, around mid to early 20s.
http://www.orcahome.de/lifeexpectancy.htm
^ This website states:
"Of the 197 killer whales in captivity since 1964, almost 2/3 didn’t make it passed 10 years
in captivity. Less than 30 orcas survived more than 20 years in captivity. Average time in
captivity has improved steadily over the decades, but is still very low."
I don't understand why people would want these animals in captivity. Like Bellasea said,
they clear miles like nothing. Why would it ever seem like a good idea to stick them in
small tanks? Essentially prison cells.
Imagine if someone make you sit in a big room with people you didn't know for your entire
life. A big empty room with some windows and thousands of weird aliens staring at you all
day long. You can never get any privacy, you can't escape and have time to yourself.
You're not even with your family.
On top of that, the aliens would make you do jumping jacks, every single day for their amusement.
These animals do the same routines forever. They're not allowed to retire. It's just plain
cruel. I don't understand how this is considered ok.
i I can see how keeping marine mammals in captivity would be a good thing because they can't or they don't have the means to survive in the wild. what I can't see is the reasoning behind keeping perfectly able marine mammals in captivity, just to make a profit.
Tenacity.
Even so, they shouldn't really be in a park. They should be in an aquarium or a reserve. I don't mind
people viewing them or having access to live animals, but I don't agree with making them perform for
your entertainment and then NEVER allow them to retire.
If we do have live animals on display, it should only be because they're either handicapped and can't
recover fully, (though Winter is a horrible example. she's in a tiny tank I'm not sure I'd even call that
an aquarium. not only that, but she has nowhere to escape to when she's stressed and she performs
shows for people) OR they;re kept only temporarily while they're being treated and then released
within a decent timeframe.
I agree, and marine mammals that can't be rehabilitated should be kept in live seaquarium. I don't think that's what they are called, but they are the bay types things that dolphins and whales can be kept in. it is blocked off from the open ocean. So they can't leave but they're still in captivity but they are not...kind of..
I hope it all made sense it's almost 1 in the morning, and I'm having issues typing in reading and stuff
Tenacity.
Haha it's fine.
And yea I think they're called "sea pens". It's basically what you said, a closed off area, but the
animal has acess to the ocean tides, currents, acidity, and temperature which are great for recovery.
When Keiko was moved into his seapen he recovered significantly.
We actually watched a documentary like this in my Environmental Studies course specifically about dolphins and the way they're treated in Japan. It was focased on the man who trained the dolphins in Flipper, and how some captive dolphins are trapped in a specific bay in Japan were they're then either sold to trainers for parks, etc. or killed and sold for their meat. (Which, by the way, has finally been acknowledged by the Japanese to cause Mercury poisoning. Took 'em long enough.)
To top it off, that movie taught me something that I found rather shocking: dolphins and whale will commit suicide if they're unhappy. This was the case with one of the dolphins who played Flipper, who apparently refused to open her blowhole until she suffocated herself. I just can't support having creatures in captivity without good reason if it's going to make them so depressed that they don't want to live anymore.
EDIT: Just noticed that someone posted bits of The Cove. People in my class cried while watching that.
Yea I think one of the videos mentions that.
Dolphins and whales have to make a conscious effort to breathe. So when they don't want to they
can just stop breathing and die. I think I saw the same documentary as you.
The guy goes on to say that a lot of the dolphins die in this way, but they're never reported. The
cause of death is usually listed as something else by the vet, who of course, is getting paid off
by the aquariums.
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