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Thread: Sea World Questions

  1. #1
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    Sea World Questions

    So, I know the topics of captivity for and against come up a lot, and I think we have a real treat to have some members who are from or have worked for sea world as well as other places that work with marine animals.

    Now, I wanted to ask thoughts on something but I wanted to preface that I sincerely recognize the article I'm about to link is BIASED. I'm no fool... and I do not post these things to cause drama or disrespect I do it out of my own ignorance and wanting to learn more from both sides of every argument. I hear a lot from the anti I think it's time I hear from the pro and I think other people in the community will feel this way too. It's just a bit of a taboo subject...

    with that in mind this came up in my news feed this morning
    http://blog.seattlepi.com/candacewhi...having-babies/

    thoughts?

  2. #2
    Wel this is my opinions on it- please dont rip my head off about it.

    im not too fond of Candace Whiting or Colleen Gorman. Both who are so anti captive yet only Candace was the one who actually worked at a seaworld park. As for Orca Project OMG.. I dont even want to start, there is so much flip flopping and misinformation on the blog, it ticks me off. Now I dont understand why suddenly inbreeding has become an issue considering it happens in the wild and has been happening in the wild with animals and humans alike. But I believe this is due to many issues. source: http://www.montrealgazette.com/techn...019/story.html

    Keto and Kohana are uncle and niece, Believe me I love seaworld, but sending Keto, Tekoa , Kohana and Skyla, who are all related in some way,(tillikums kids) all to LP was a bad descision, Especially with no mature experience female to hold the pod strong, so these are a bunch of teenaged kids who are rambuctious and have no stable pod. As for inbreeding, Well Taku and Katina (mother/son) had a calf- Nalani who is doing well, there are no issues that we know of, she a growing healthy girl. Nalani is now 5yrs old, yet how come this never showed up on a "report" by Candace?. I know trainers have not much say in who moves where, so we cant blame them. However AB who owned the park (now owned by Blackstone who own the universal parks) is resposible for this move. I guess at the time they were desperate to my some orcas especially youngsters because they had 10 orcas and 1 was on the way. I know Seaworld is working with other parks to gain acess to Ariticial insemenation, (Wikie from Marineland France gave birth to Ulises calf from SeaWorld San Diego) .I guess accidents though can be prevented, can happen (like teen pregnancy).

    Its interesting though- People inbreed their pets tofix and improve type to produce excellent quality animals aka Purebred strains- http://www.dogplay.com/Breeding/inbreeding.html , even Royalty used to intermarry and Inbreed in order to maintain the purity of bloodlines. source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_intermarriage. Why is it now an issue, is my question, yet it happened in 2006 directly from mother and son and it took Uncle and niece to suddenly bring this up...


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  3. #3
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    I haven't got to read the article yet, but sometimes captivity for certain reason can be good. Many people know that I work for Disney and Disney has Animal Kingdom. Animal kingdom has been working on conservation and education. Many animals come to Animal Kingdom to be treated fof injury, nursed back to health or to help boost their population.

    "As a zoological park, Disney's Animal Kingdom is engaged in research and conservation efforts involving its animal species. Since the park's opening in 1998, the resident elephant herd has produced five calves, with births in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008[13] and 2010.[14] In 2008 alone, the park's giraffe herd produced four newborns, raising the total number of giraffe births since opening to eleven.[15]
    In 1999, one of the park's white rhinos gave birth to a female calf named Nande.[16] In 2006, Nande and Hasani, another of the park's rhinos, were transferred to Uganda's Ziwa animal sanctuary, in the first attempt to re-introduce white rhinos to the country. Due to civil strife, the white rhinoceros had become extinct in the area.[16] In June 2009, Nande gave birth to a male calf, the first such birth in Uganda in over 25 years.[16] In January 2010, the success of the Rhino breeding program was highlighted with the news that eight white rhinos have been born at Animal Kingdom since the parks opening, the newest calf having been born to another Animal Kingdom born mother" -From wikipedia

    I know many animals that live on our property naturally will also receive treatment at the facility and are nursed back to health before being released.

    I know many people are against the captivity of animals but I think that Disney is doing a good thing by helping increase the numbers of endangered animals and taking care of those that come into their facility. And by also educating the public on how to make their homes green to make their homes a better place for animals as well.

  4. #4
    I can tell when an article is biased when they use random BOLD. XD " Oh be lazy don't read this. Read this!"
    Yes, that was biased in a sense..but meh. XD To my little rant;

    I am of the belief that we need back up populations. Its either that, or just let the animals go extinct.
    Poachers aren't going to stop, especially ones that can't get vital supplies for their families because they are poor.
    Animals won't stay in our designated spots for them if they are over crowded; then they go into 'people land' and get shot because they ate the crops, or livestock. Not that I blame the people. They can't go down to a super center like we can and buy another cow, or another field of corn; they are rarely compensated for their loss and they will starve. They just get no help. When they do, its often a lot better for everyone. ( Random factoid; the compensation method works~ http://animals.nationalgeographic.co.../maasai-lions/ )
    Pollution is a major problem and, even if we stop completely right this second, there is going to be gunk in our land and sea for generations to come. That could lead to sickness and die offs later.
    There isn't enough land(Or sea) being set apart fast enough for animals to be safe in as well.

    That being said, I would prefer the animals to be treated kindly, and in the best way possible. Also if there is a donation set aside to help where the animals come from all the better~

    And I agree with Mermaid Lanai, stuff happens. :\ I would prefer they be more careful, so if this doesn't happen again that would be awesome. Maybe they should get a computer system like zoo's do to keep track of who is related to who?

    That is just my opinion. ~
    Just keeep swimming. Just Keeeeppp swwiming -Dory

    I actually have a Facebook page now~

  5. #5
    I don't really like captivity, especially not Seaworld. It's true Seaworld is a very large and successful theme park and their business does educate and often introduce people into marine biology and spark interest in saving oceans, but the way they make the animals preform and preform and preform is just saddening. What would make me feel better is if Seaworld owned some sort of seapen or nature reserve where their older animals can retire to after they've been performing for long enough. The stresses that the animals go through on having to go through human contact daily with no breaks, performing the same routines over and over, the lack of space and stimulation from their tank.. Another aspect is added with this breeding thing. I'm not sure why they're doing it so early on, either. But breeding the whales causes huge stresses for the mothers and for the calves. The mothers have nowhere to escape to for privacy and I'm sure the calves are extremely frightened since they're being thrown so suddenly into a world that expects them to learn tricks and perform in front of large audiences. I have a bearded dragon, and they REQUIRE a hide hole. It's necessary so that when they're tired of human contact, they have somewhere to retire to. Bearded dragons without hide holes usually become very stressed and can easily contract diseases. Imagine how it is with an orca, that's probably a million times more intelligent than any lizard.

    The interbreeding thing was honestly bound to happen sometime. Just as mentioned earlier, inbreeding happens in dogs to keep favorable traits and causes health issues that are kept within the gene pool. I'm not exactly sure how I feel about this yet. It is a downside, but I mean, at least they're not taking in more wild orcas.

    I like Disney's Wild Kingdom more than Seaworld because the wild kingdom is simply a safari. The animals have no routines to follow and human contact doesn't exceed a drive by the enclosure. They have more "freedom" than the performing animals do at seaworld. Not to mention, a much more different lifestyle, so I don't think they're as stressed.
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  6. #6
    Well having worked at an aquarium we did alot of things to keep the animals stimulated, whether it was a new toy or change in environment etc.(my favorite enrichment device was this giant pizza holder and it had holes of different sizes and we would put the fish in the holes and the dolphins would have to think to get the fish out). However Performing in a show is not mandatory, the whales can choose to perform or not- even if they refuse to perform they get their daily food intake. I have countless videos where they used more than fish to reward the animal. They do get breaks, seaworld parks has some perform in show, while others rest or do something else and probably perform the other show, and occasionaly one or two will take over the whole show.

    Mothers and calves are seperated from the shows until the mom is ready, from October 9th- February Katina and Makaio werent doing any shows, they had their own pool to themselves, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bidd-...eature=related once they know Makaio would stick to katina, they started moving katina to a different pool with her calf so the other orcas can perform a short segment. Everything with calves is done in small steps, while mom does a simple segment in the show . Makaio is learning by his mothers side, yes he choose to do what his mom does (shown here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thetucu...7626947269224/) , he is not forced ..lol he can swim off and find something else interesting. (seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mdut3bsbkw

    Kohana and Keto mated on their own, it wasnt like they locked them together, hoping it would happen. All 4 orcas swim together in the pod and socialize, they do seperate them if need be, but it happened on its own. Kalina was 6 when she had her first calf -keet. But that was waaayy back then. Im sure after what happened in seaworld, they have precautions keeping males from their siblings or mothers while their in estrus. Meanwhile Loro Parque cant do much at the moment. But in some way, I believe though LP intended for this to happen.


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  7. #7
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    when I was reading up about seaworld taking one of the stranded pilot whales I thought it's mandatory currently any animals they take into captivity have to perform?

  8. #8
    Since they were approved to take in rescued animals (they just opened a new rescue and rehab center, they can take in, rehabilitate and release animals now- this has been in the works for about a year now it was waiting on permits and such to open it)

    The pilot whale is in rescue and rehabilitaton , http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/attr...ale-doing-well from there they decide if they will keep her in the park or move her out to another park since she still is a calf and since her mother died, she was weaned to fish, NMFS has deemed her unreleasable. As for the other one she's not doing well at all (the other pilot whale) since she arrived to recue center, She cant have any pressure below her. She has muscle damage, they don't know what it is or what caused it.. Her lungs are still bad. it may take about 8 months to get her better. their giving her botox injections to help the spazms.


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  9. #9
    You made lots of good points, Lania, especially on the mother/baby stuff. I had thought the mother continued to do shows quickly after the calves
    were born, but I honestly don't know that much. I'd trust you if you said so lol.
    And I'm also sure you know more than me about the aquariums if you worked at them, but I just don't see adequate
    stimulation. Giving an animal a way to figure out how to get food is a good example, but it's not enough. Orcas especially. Being that they're so
    high up the food chain, studies suggest Orcas only dedicate 10% of their time to feeding or hunting. The dolphins at the aquarium were probably
    so taken with the device because it was one of their very few play things. The orcas and dolphins don't really have much in their enclosures to
    entertain them, but it would honestly probably very difficult to accomplish this because you'd need quite the enclosure.

    As for the orcas having a choice to not perform, they somewhat do as far as I understand, but they also somewhat don't. I know seaworld doesn't
    practice the "no tricks, no food" method, and instead, use positive reinforcement. Still, since the orcas don't really have anything else to do, they
    probably "enjoy" the routines to an extent. This would be like acting in a play that performed 7 times or so a day that you were forced into. You
    can either not participate and sit in a room by yourself, not participate and watch them do the same routine, or you could go an perform with
    everyone else. You may not like it, but at LEAST you're doing something. I don't know, from what I know about orcas and their intelligence and
    need for stimulation, that's a miserable experience. Can you imagine? Being in a play you can't retire from or avoid? Imagine if you had to LIVE
    in the theater. You don't have much of a choice. You either sit there and be bored to tears or perform in this play you don't even want to be part of.

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  10. #10
    Kanti, I completely agree <3

    I am no fan of captivity. This much is obvious if you have seen my previous posts. If animals were supposed to be penned up and have humans feed them, then that's the way things would naturally be. I don't believe that any human should be making money off of animals doing tricks for entertainment. I am sure trainers love their animals and treat them extremely well, I am not saying they are being mistreated; I am merely saying that I believe they would be much happier making their own decisions, catching their own food, swimming wherever they want, whenever they want. Maybe they are safer and healthier in captivity, but that's like saying I am going to be put in a house, having my healthy food being made by a chef, own some tv or toys, and then I need to entertain people on a regular basis. I might be healthy and I have the choice to move around, but not leave. In my opinion, that is not living. I am all for rehabilitating animals and setting them free. I understand that animals that are born in captivity simply cannot be set free because they don't have the necessary skills to live in the wild, but catching them to be sold to a park is wrong, in my opinion. I read that Sea World doesn't do that but other places around the world still do.

    As for the inbreeding thing. It is occurring more and more in the wild and some biologists are concerned about it. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...eeding21m.html If they are concerned about it in the wild, then I think Sea World could actively stop inbreeding in the park. I don't think they will do it because then they would not have anymore new whales but I don't work there so I don't know. They are concerned because "That trend surprises and worries researchers who say it could significantly reduce the population's genetic diversity, making whales more susceptible to disease and genetic disorders or mutations." stated in the article.

    Hopefully some of what I said makes sense.. I am a little tired lol.

  11. #11
    Not even Revedeau,
    The average orca in captivity lives till about 20 years of age. The average lifespan of orcas in the wild is around 40-60 years of age (males averaging at 40 and females averaging at 60), some reaching as far as 80 years old.
    Marine mammals in captivity also become more stressed and are more prone to disease. Not to mention the water they swim in is more riddled with chemicals they're not used to, it does not circulate as well, and cannot be 100% cleaned or filtered. Orcas also show less social activity within their pods than they do in the wild, and often, bullying other members will occur. The orcas will become agressive with each other, which almost never happens in a wild setting. Tilikum is a huge example of this. Usually in the wild, the male orcas don't spend much time in close quarters with the females unless it comes to mating. Since Tilikum and many of the other females are kept at such close range, the females will often pick on the males to drive them away. Tilikum not only has little space to escape to, but he also doesn't really have a choice. He can either escape and be lonely or at least try to interact with his pod.

    I may be biased, but I just see nothing good about captivity.
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  12. #12
    Tillikum is kept with Trua another young male, he isint kept with the females anymore, back in the earl 90's he use to be apart of the pod but since katina and the others use to pick on him alot they decided it was best to seperate him from them. However Tillikum was about 90% of the time kept alone in Sealand in Canada. you cant even use him as an example, as for Ulises in Seaworld san diego you can use him he is currently being picked on by orkid and kasatka, but even he continues to be kept with the pod despite what the girls like.

    People dont realize compared to whats been happening 30+ yrs ago alot has changed. We have and continue to learn more about whales and dolphins, hense why they constantly change their captive environments, and their feeding habits along with other things, we now understand the social structure of pods, we now understand how animals can "get bored". Back then it was all for the money, BUT Now more and more its about conservation more about how can our next generation help these animal, knowing that humans have destroyed their habitats and continue to do so with unnessecary means The wild orcas are full of organic pollutants such as PCBs, PBDE’s and dioxins and furans due to eating fish and other animsl which themselves are full of pollutants. All animals whether captive or other has died at varied ages. there is No actual set average, it can change from time to time even in the wild/ heck corky and lolita are in their 40's meanwhile some orcas die in their teens and then some. Even in the wild- I mean I can make a list of so many orcas that have passed on in their teens and then some. But your saying captivity is the issue that orcas are dying young because of "stress" thats not true. Even if an animal is stressed- animal care does what it can to help relieve that stress whether its changing it into another pool, adding a companion animals to socialize with or moving it by itself if it seems its having issues with this (or these) animal), random activities or even toys etc. As for their pools, they do use a very tiny amount of chlorine, but it is much lower than your average house pool.which is why algae continues to grow and evry day to every other day crew would go into the tanks to clean off the algae. i should know- i had this on Sh*t list and continue to have it on there since even rescue tanks need to be cleaned of algae. We had someone coming in 2 times a day to check the levels and make sure it was okay, any change in the levels and they would push the system to add clean water into the tanks.

    Sure there are some orcas in the wild and some are still being studied (the atlantic pod just began getting recognition) The pods in the North pacific are under the "endangered list". Just like humans who are exposed to things on a daily basis and can get sick even thru the air, animals get sick as well. Same can happen in the wild where there are more things that can expose and kill wild orcas. I dont know about you, But i never want to put orcas back into an ocean which is now full of so much pollutants, including noise pollition and even lack in prey items. I feel that what we have in captivity should stay there, considering the NMFS were the ones who decided to ban orca captures, they havent been captured since the late 70's.


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  13. #13
    I'm sorry Lanai, but I just completely disagree.

    There IS an average age for orcas in the wild and it is much higher than the average age for captive orcas. Just because there are random cases of orcas who live long in captivity doesn't really mean that it's all good. The AVERAGE means that the majority dies when they reach 20 and the rare cases balance between earlier than that and later. The wild cases are the only one's I'd give the "no average" to since it's very difficult to keep track of so many wild orcas. EVEN then, I would say the premature deaths are insignificant because the majority of the population DOES live until much later. Also, since they are apex predators and literally nothing besides disease can kill an orca, even when it is just a juvenile, I'm going to have to say I completely agree with the age average they have given me.

    Also, Tilikum was not kept alone in Canada, not in the least. He was kept with 2 other orcas that just so happened to be female and they bullied the crap out of him. He was NEVER kept alone.

    And I don't really agree with your statement either about "I'd rather them live in captivity than in the ocean where it's polluted". To me that would be like if we decided it would be better for all Japanese people to be moved into camps since much of Japan still has nuclear residue and increased levels of radiation. We would ship them off to little camps where they would live under different conditions, not have nearly as much freedom, and possibly be split off from their friends and family. Of course, even if we did move them into camps, they would have it better than the orcas because they wouldn't be forced into doing routines for the rest of their lives. It's a completely fucked up idea (pardon my language) because WE'RE the ones who fucked up the ocean. WE'RE the ones who are pumping chemicals in it at such a care-free rate, but instead of giving a shit about it and just STOPPING and trying to clean the ocean, we put animals into custody for our entertainment and claim it's for rehabilitation? I'm sorry, that's completely false. Also, since 100% of seaworld's orcas are NOT there for rehabilitation. They're for performing and breeding purposes so that they can be installed there forever. You say it's not for the money, but of course it is. There is literally less than one good reason orcas should be kept at seaworld (the only good reason I believe is education, because showing small children these animals sparks their interest in protecting the oceans), a certain POD may be endangered, but the species itself (transient and resident) are completely fine and striving. Also, when you think about it, by removing them from the ocean, you're giving them less of a chance. You're disallowing them to slowly adjust to the ocean's changes overtime and adapt. Instead, you're completely moving them into another area, SLOWLY breeding them, and killing off their life expectancy. Not to mention less than 1% of the orca population is in captivity, so even if captivity WAS somehow the best option for them, it would be impossible for us to keep more than 5% of orcas in captivity under happy and healthy conditions. The orcas we already have are clearly not showing signs of happiness.

    And the difference between a human catching a cold randomly in the air vs. an orca catching a disease in it's tank is not that the disease wafted into the tank and allowed the orca to get sick, it's that the orca's immune system is already depleted from it's stress and it can become sick more easily. Every animal in the world follows this simple rule. Stress = lowered immune system. Chronic stress = lowered life expectancy. This is a FACT of biology and is not made up in the least. Animals as small and simple as crickets can die 2-3 weeks earlier (normal life expextancy is 8 weeks) if they are put under stressed conditions. Captive orcas ARE stressed. The proof is in the pudding. There have been zero attacks on humans in the wild, there have been more than 30 instances of aggression and attacks in parks. Orcas are normally not agressive towards each other, in the parks, they have less patience toward each other and will often pick on each other. This stress is probably caused by the constant human interaction, the closed living space, and lack of stimulation. Like my comparison, if you had to live in a theater that you worked in daily, you'd be stressed as hell, and yes, you probably would take quite a few years off your life.

    And I know that people are aware that these animals are bored and attempt to entertain them, but it is literally not enough. The example of the food devices and the rub downs and the interaction is just NOT ENOUGH. That would be like if someone held you in a white room with a few windows and every now and then someone came in with the game "bop-it" and left it there for you to play. Well sure, you'd have fun for the first 5 minutes, but it would NEVER be enough to fully entertain you.

    I despise Seaworld because they are selfish by keeping these animals this way. I respect what someone earlier said about Disney's Wild Kingdom. At least there, they keep endangered animals and rehabilitate them (I'm not entirely sure that they do), and the animals are actually kept under zoo/aquarium settings in the sense that they're put into an enclosure that mimics their wild habitat and they are allowed to do whatever they want. Seaworld is not an aquarium, it's a theme park. They do have aquarium settings, like for their penguins, sharks, and some of their seals, but for the orcas, it's 100% for entertainment.
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  14. #14
    \Dont even get me started about Tillikum, I studied this orca since the Keltie bryne incident, even contacted Alexandra Morton about her recordings while at her minimal time at Sealand. Truth is, Tillikum WAS kept alone, even videos from Lifeforce proved it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgwan0lgjH4. he was moved by trainers to keep him from the girls, though he was kept with the girls at night, all that changed with nootka gave birth. he was then kept alone in the tiny place. Which is the reason why SeaWorld put in the Emergency permit to move him. Anyway this discussion is about INBREEDING. not the attacks or Tillikum.

    Captivity happened, and has changed in order to keep the animals happy and also continues to change in the coming future. Some parks may be in it for the money, but Seaworld is in it for conservation, to teach people and share these animals with people who dont see them in the wild and allow them to interact and learn about them.. What happened to the ocean is Humans fault and we are at fault. but I dont want to loose whales and dolphins or other sealife. Like I said I rather not put these animals who have adapted to their pods and the people to be thrown into a seapen, alone with people they dont know and suddenly have to learn to fish and survive in a non-existstant pod if their not accepted. Im sorry but thats like throwing a 3yr old into the forest and saying- go ahead and live your life. And dont give me the BS about whale watching cause they DONT guarantee whales are to be seen. I've been at both ends of the argument an saw the flaws.

    what you call stress isint. Ive seen stressed animals if they WERE stressed as you say, they wouldnt interact, or eat or even socialize. In our care we had a wild dolphin, he was stressed and those signs were he was lethargic, he refused to eat, no interaction or will to move at all. that is stressed, not what you see in parks where dolphins swim and socialize and even interact with people cause they choose to. when an animal is stressed they deteriorate quickly to the point of death. Back when i worked at an aquarium, we had a seal come to us from a marine mammal rehab center and he wouldnt/or couldnt adapt and deteriorated quickly and passed on. So until you have seen what I've seen, you cant talk about stress until your hands are there, until you've watched helplessly as an animal deteriorates and dies while in your care, no matter how hard you try to help. Just because you read books and crap on the internet means nothing compared to human experience. I know seaworld has 5 orcas wild born in their care, the rest are born in captivity only 2 from Artificial insementation. I will continue to go to seaworld because i love those animals, i like to watch, and interact and study these animals. But if you choose not to, that your choice.

    With that said I will not continue this discussion anymore because there are no need for arguing. However I will leave you with this: "For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, they can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind"


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  15. #15
    Oh, I'm sorry if it seemed I came off too strong, I was just making points. I don't see why the discussion has to be put to a halt, though, unless you feel uncomfortable. I'm just stating things I've read, heard, watched, and studied. I don't agree with your points is all, but I don't have anything against you as a person.
    If you want to go to seaworld that's fine~ you should do what you like to do, but when you're trying to get your point across to people who disagree with you, you're going to need to back up your beliefs. I don't agree with keeping animals in captivity to perform for us. Seaworld does lots of other things for animals, and I think their park is great for introducing people into caring for the ocean, but I just can't ever agree with the fact they imprison the animals for entertaining us.

    What you described for the dolphin scenario would be chronic stress, not just stress.
    There are different levels of stress, not just one. You can be lightly stressed which can only last a little, you can be legitimately stressed, which can last a while and trouble you but you can continue to act normally, or you can be chronically stressed which then I would agree, you would basically be completely indifferent towards everything.
    When you didn't study for a test and probably failed a class you don't stop eating or halt yourself from socializing because you're not chronically stressed, you're just stressed. Depending on the person, that may make you stressed for only a short time, or you may continue to be reminded of it and become stressed for weeks. You may choose to not hang out with friends or not eat, but I would imagine the only reason someone would do that is if they just couldn't think of anything else besides failing the class.
    When your boyfriend/girlfriend breaks up with you, you would also become very stressed. I know some people who do become indifferent towards things, but never towards eating. Maybe they would in some cases, but I think that's just because they're being dramatic :'P
    Who knows though, I know people who've been dumped by people and then couldn't sleep for nights. So I'd say that could even be chronic stress.

    Let's take the whole scenario where you were placed in a theater acting with the same group of people day in and day out. You would be bored and stressed from being in the same place all the time, not being able to escape the group of people, etc. But you wouldn't stop eating. Perhaps if they were being treated badly or abused day in and day out. Under stimulation or boredom can certainly cause stress.
    Haven't you ever sat around at home all day and been so bored that you start getting depressed? Maybe it's only me?

    Sometimes when animals refuse to eat, it's not because they're stressed, it's that they're ill. Especially with such a social creature like a dolphin or a whale. If the dolphin was being unsocial, not nippy or aggressive, they he may have been drained of energy and not cared to go out of his way to interact. If he didn't eat, perhaps he didn't want to because he felt no need to or was maybe sickened by the idea. I know whenever I get a stomach flu, I just want to sleep all day. That's my first guess. If not, something unimaginable probably happened and he didn't care to live anymore.

    Also, I don't mean to pick at the video, but I don't know if that's much proof. It looks like that small area is linked into the other pool, and if it's not, well, it looks a bit small for him o_O
    I've read several articles that say he was housed in the same tank as the two other orcas, I've never read anywhere that he was ever alone.

    I didn't ever mean to offend someone, when I argue, I get into things and sometimes seem aggressive to people who don't know me very well, but I'm simply trying to get my point across in the same way you're trying to get yours across. It may seem unfriendly, since we don't agree, but I have taken no offense to our discussion, I hope you didn't either, if you do, I'm sorry~ I didn't mean for it to seem that way.

    Haha I'll leave with a quote as well, though :')
    "You can take an animal out of the wild, but you can't take the wild out of an animal" - Someone
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  16. #16
    its not that im not trying to make you like seaworld im just saying thses are most things that in my eyes are relivant. However From an ill dolphin to a stressed on can be 2 different things, This animal was healthy, he was found in a basin but had no will to move or eat or anything, however blood tests, normal, no known illness, or sickness.- it does happen, poor guy i was rooting for him too. We had round the clock on this animal, (my heart still hurts for this guy) common dolphins are very easily stressed which is why its a animal thats hard to keep in any aquarium.

    I understand your opinion and I know you understand mine, I will never look or label anyone as their choice or opinions, your still my friend despite your choices and i hope you think of me as a friend as well despite my views. as far as I know we're cool. Captivity is a seriously touchy subject which is so true.


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