see I just love everything you say
see I just love everything you say
I told her the exact same thing :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AniaR
:slow clap:
You have no idea how much respect I have for some of you guys initiating and leading these conversations, and you aren't just doing it here. Because someone agrees with you or not, discussing it is so important and seriously what needs to happen everywhere to create change and make the world a better place. You are so fully fighting the good fight, and standing up in a way that makes you have to deal with a lot of extra crap, but it is also the way that makes a difference, so you are doing it anyway. I have the deepest gratitude, because you do it on all of our behalf. You are respectful but quick to call out incongruencies. You open dialogue, inform, and call to action. You are absolutely beautiful.
So, thank you.
so much.
I'm now convinced that when the Dalai Lama said that the world will be saved by the Western woman, I'm pretty sure he was talking about some badass mermaids.
Your words are so kind... i don't know how to deal.
http://mernetwork.com/index/attachme...1&d=1468265036
He was if he knows what's good for him. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by merwandering
And I am back! I had a ton of stuff to do since my last post in this thread (including my nephew getting a fever of 109 and all of us panicking because he was having seizures and trying to find a job for when I go back to school) and it seems a lot has happened in this thread since then too!
I tried to catch up as best as I can but reading through 3 pages, a few things may have gotten garbled or mixed up and I'm sorry for that. In this post I'm going to comment on what posts stood out the most to me (basically what I could remember the most from the 3 pages binge)
1) Don't be so quick to call cultural appropriation because I look white but I am 'x' ethnicity or have this ethnicity in my ancestors somewhere:
Firstly, you have to realize that you look white and as such you have white privilege and still don't face the same problems that people of that ethnicity who are clearly not white face. A white passing black person with an afro is still cooler than a dark skinned black person with an afro and the same goes for all other races. (here's an article about how a black man who became with from vitiligo lived a much different life than when he was clearly black). Someone who is clearly that ethnicity are still judged and ridiculed for wearing what is a part of their culture while someone who is white passing is praised with the same thing ( ex: bindis, braids, native headdresses, etc)
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1480790/im...Y-facebook.jpg
https://criticalbeautyanalysis.files...2&h=460&crop=1https://criticalbeautyanalysis.files...7&h=460&crop=1
2) Hair.
A lot of people can't seem to grasp the concept of why hair is so important. So here are some videos and articles
https://criticalbeautyanalysis.wordp...ion-of-beauty/
http://www.refinery29.com/2015/02/82...adlock-comment
http://blavity.com/why-its-not-just-about-kylies-hair/
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-31438273
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...;v=U48565qmqUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1KJRRSB_XA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuO8Z12Ri1U
I probably missed some of the stuff being talked about in the thread, if I did just let me know
I find this statement extremely racist and completely undermining the person you are posting this about. Instead of trying to uplift the community statements like this bring it down, that post could seriously hurt that girl how dare you diminish what other people go through. Yes it's different from what you experience but it is still part of the same kind of hate. And you are just promoting it, I have read your post a few times, I even took some time to cool off after I read it (hence why this is so late) I showed both your post and the one you are talking about to other people and they all feel the same as I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Momo
For someone who is trying to call out and put a stop to racism in the community this post is very discouraging, and seems to be doing exactly what you are intending to stop.
Drucilla she literally gave an explanation below after that statement.
Seaglass siren I agree with you on that point, it doesn't make sense why someone would be racist to one culture and still try to take aspects from it. I honestly think that is :headwall::headwall::headwall::headwall::headwall: :headwall::headwall::headwall::headwall::headwall: :headwall:I can't even understand the meaning behind why they would do that. It just makes no sense to take something from a culture you hate. Unless there is malicious intent behind those actions, which to be honest would not surprise me now a days.
The explanation doesn't make sense to me and that statement she made is offensive, not just to me.
And I was commenting on that specific statement.
I don't think they HATE the culture but I think it's that everyone is so desensitized to taking certain aspects of that culture that they like without researching. (I was guilty of this before for example when anime first got super popular. Despite not being japanese i would buy and wear everything "Japanese styled") it's normally not something the average person would think about. But that's why we have people like Eric and Momo talking about it.
It makes perfect sense to me :/ definitely have a read through the threads. A lot of the points and some of your main concerns were addressed already. Momos statement wasn't racist.
ok, I didn't want to say a word in here (because posting in threads where I have the threadstarter on ignore is a bad habit I'm trying to get away from), but:
you might not think it racist, but many will disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaGlass Siren
Constantly telling people they can't do something or wear something because they are not the right colour to do so, or in this case, going a step farther saying even if you are (partly) of that ethnicity you still cannot because you don't look like the right colour to do it, is racist, and nothing else.
It's the very same sentiment the "anti-racists" claim to fight against, but they just reverse it and it's the same in the end.
This isn't even about appropriation or somesuch anymore.
One might think there are worse problems nowadays than this superficial bitching (like, people dying left and right everywhere), than sowing discord because of friggin' skin colour.
Ok no
People are literally dying left right and centre
because of skin colour
So maybe we white people can deal with not wearing a fucking hair style without whining about it while black people are slaughtered in the streets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid Kelda
http://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif?noredirect
Exactly kelda! And like i said i give absolutely no fucks in the workd anymore about white tears so once i get my laptop again (probably tonight) i will be tearing into BOTH of those responses. Right now i will let you know where you both went wrong
1)tone policing. Aka trying to tell a person of color what they should and shouldn't be angry about
2) crying white tears because i told you you couldn't wear cornrows and cultural artifacts from cultures you don't belong to (and i swear to god if i get "I'm 1/20th " x "ethnicity I WILL raise some hell)
We're out here dying because of our skin color,because we choose to wear what are a part of our culture and that gets us labeled as thugs or ghetto and you're over here mad you can't wear a bindi or dreads from a group of people you probably know nothing about,don't belong to and probably get shit for wearing what is THEIR culture.
Trust me i will be back.
sent from my shellphone using tapatalk
p.s. Momo, great Logo!
Okay now I'm back
https://media.giphy.com/media/ED9Q2SCsowywU/giphy.gif
Get ready for this wall - o - text.
Thank you Raina! I hope to get it on some shirts for Paul to wear at gigs once I pass my drivers test and can do some gigs and maybe for a tail bag if I ever get around to buying or making one (I have my eyes on the one that was just released, I can't remember the company but it's a floral pattern one and can fit the largest Merbella flukes so hopefully it'll fit my current tail and any future ones)Quote:
Originally Posted by AniaR
And on topic:
First off, telling someone they have privilege IS NOT racist and the fact that you think that someone realizing the privilege they hold is racist shows how little you actually understand about racism and privilege. Would you like to know what racism is? Racism is the when the system and the society is set up so you are on the bottom based solely on your race. Racism is when because of your race you loose out on opportunities other races have or are given freely. Racism is being victimized no matter where you go because people will ALWAYS view you a certain way because of your race, and usually not a good way. Racism is having to fight your whole life and be 3x better than the white people to get HALF of what they do solely because your skin color holds you back. THAT is racism. Racism is NOT: getting your feelings hurt, facing prejudice, or being told you have privilege whether it is white, white passing or light skin privilege.Quote:
Originally Posted by drucilla
Because I understand racism and race relations, I have the gall to actually realize that yes, I do have some kind of light skinned privilege because I am lighter skinned, and that I will be treated better than someone darker, I will be thought of as more human, that I am not as "ghetto" or "bad" as someone darker than me, and instead of me trying to make it about me and how little ol light skin me has problems too, instead I listen because that is how you should react when you have privilege against a group, my case being I have more privilege than a dark skin black person, we may be the same race but I have A LOT more privilege when it comes to how I am perceived because of my light skin.
Actually I wasn't uplifting the community, I was calling it out, it's very different. I was however giving a voice to the mers of color and some of them have said that the video was very uplifting to them.Quote:
Instead of trying to uplift the community statements like this bring it down
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kVNACPg_pA...600/prince.jpgQuote:
that post could seriously hurt that girl how dare you diminish what otherpeople go through. Yes it's different from what you experience but it is still part of the same kind of hate.
Again, telling someone they have privilege is not hate.
So is it discouraging because I called out the bullshit and these people were butthurt, or maybe the hit dog was hollering?Quote:
And you are just promoting it, I have read your post a few times, I even took some time to cool off after I read it (hence why this is so late) I showed both your post and the one you are talking about to other people and they all feel the same as I do.
For someone who is trying to call out and put a stop to racism in the community this post is very discouraging, and seems to be doing exactly what you are intending to stop.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o8doO...mQpO/giphy.gif
And because I'm nice I'll even post links to articles explaining white passing and light skin privilege
Here is an example of how you should use light skinned privilege, this is Zendaya, half black half white actress, admitting that she has light skin privilege
Here is an article from a white passing person of color, who talks about how frustrating it was at first for people to dismiss her heritage but realized later on that she still benefits from privilege and has it better than those who present as her ethnicity/race.
Here's a quote from the article
And here's an article on colorism, this article focuses on colorismQuote:
Many of my peers were exhausted. It was clear that this was a battle, in defense of their humanity and worth, that they had been waging their whole lives. Of course, they were fearless and strong nonetheless, but I could see that theirs was an experience I simply could not know.
I pass for white, easily.
And regardless of how I was raised or how I see myself, that has made a difference. When I went to get enrolled in my new elementary school, I was told by the older woman leaning over her desk to make eye-contact with me that I was going to be put on A-track “with all the other smart kids.”
She didn’t know me. My mom didn’t speak English, and I certainly didn’t say a word to her. There were few white kids at my school, and they were all on A-track.
White privilege encompasses many things that I do not and cannot benefit from, but I do benefit from a lot and it’s very important that I recognize it.
To name just a few of those benefits: the quality of my English is never going to be commented on in a first encounter, I see people who at least look kind of like me represented in the media all the time, and I will probably never have to worry about being followed for “suspicious behavior” in a convenience store.
I can’t claim to know what it’s like to be immediately cast as the other, as threatening and undeserving.
Beyond where the color of my skin places me within US racist/colorist society, I also need to be cognizant of what of my Mexican herencia I present, both as a white presenting person in the United States and a light-skinned person in Mexico.
The Spanish word herencia means both heritage in the sense of where we come from and inheritance in the sense of what is passed down. So while it is true that my Mamá Nina was a mujer indígena, it is also true that she was kidnapped by my mestizo great-uncles to marry my Papá Nel.
Her cultural experience has been erased in my family’s history such so that no one knows anything about the life she led before she was taken. There is an inherent whitening that comes with mestizaje, and with whitening, erasure.
And yeah, my most is harsh, it's blunt, and it's pure rage but that seems to be all you understand because I've spelled this out before in this thread AND other threads.
Now for the second post that isn't even low key disrespectful.
you might not think it racist, but many will disagree.
[Quote]Constantly telling people they can't do something or wear something because they are not the right colour to do so, or in this case, going a step farther saying even if you are (partly) of that ethnicity you still cannot because you don't look like the right colour to do it, is racist, and nothing else.[/QUOTEe]
Nope, try again, checking you is not racism, it's telling someone to get their grubby hands out of the cookie jar that doesn't belong to them.
You're right, it isn't about appropriation, if you watched the video it was also about racism in the community. Also reverse racism Isn't a thing.Quote:
It's the very same sentiment the "anti-racists" claim to fight against, but they just reverse it and it's the same in the end.
This isn't even about appropriation or somesuch anymore.
but if you cared you would have researched this yourself and found that out.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...83/443/d1b.gif
Superficial? Really? So people of color and our culture is superficial? I know a certain mer who seems to think that asian culture isn't superficial since she tends to correct asians on their own color. #butthatsnoneofmybusinessQuote:
One might think there are worse problems nowadays than this superficial bitching (like, people dying left and right everywhere), than sowing discord because of friggin' skin colour
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...11/say_wha.gif
And you must live under a rock, because if you haven't realized people are dying all over because of "friggin skin color"
Black and brown blood is flowing down the streets like fucking bountiful rivers and you have the audacity to say that color is superficial bitching? That mers of color calling you on your shit is superficial? That the fact the our cultures are being turned into costumes and cheap imitations while we're out here trying to make it with just the color on our backs but we can't because of prejudices against us and our culture on us is superficial?
https://media.giphy.com/media/uA7iGzhqHGVtS/giphy.gifhttp://www.thejanedough.com/wp-conte...vwnco1_400.gif
Here's a tip: Don't you EVER come at me again with that. don't you EVER tell me that my people and my culture are superficial. EVER.
And even though I just posted all the information you needed AND there are literally Tons of information online I already expect this reaction
http://www.oxygen.com/sites/nbcuoxyg...?itok=Fvbjz92q
https://m.popkey.co/ef4d84/b0b4q_s-200x150.gif
Also, shout out to the mers out there who are actually listening and doing their own research, and thanks to the mers who were already doing this and making it a point to include mers of color in your spaces. You all are the true MVP and I really appreciate what you all do to make the community welcoming to all , including us mers of color.
http://66.media.tumblr.com/8af2faec3...oo1_r2_400.gif
I don't believe telling someone they have privilege is racist. And yes I do realize that some people have privilege. People in the United States and other First and Second world countries have privilege. For instance whining about if this person should participate in THEIR own culture because they are "white skinned" while people in Third world countries worry about whether they will be able to feed their children that night, is privilege.
"Would you like to know what racism is? Racism is the when the system and the society is set up so you are on the bottom based solely on your race. Racism is when because of your race you loose out on opportunities other races have or are given freely. Racism is being victimized no matter where you go because people will ALWAYS view you a certain way because of your race, and usually not a good way. Racism is having to fight your whole life and be 3x better than the white people to get HALF of what they do solely because your skin color holds you back. THAT is racism. Racism is NOT: getting your feelings hurt, facing prejudice, or being told you have privilege whether it is white, white passing or light skin privilege."
How would you like to know what racism really is? Racism is 1. abeliefordoctrinethatinherentdifferencesamongthevarioushumanracialgroupsdetermineculturalorindividualachievement,usuallyinvolvingtheideathatone'sownraceissuperiorandhastherighttodominateothersorthataparticularracialgroupisinferiortotheothers.
2. apolicy,systemofgovernment,etc.,baseduponorfosteringsuchadoctrine;discrimination.
3. hatredorintoleranceofanotherraceorotherraces. (Which is what your post shows by the way)
Or do you want a personal definition?
Okay, racism is when you get bullied everyday because of your race or because you don't look 100% your race. It's when you can't fit in anywhere on the spectrum because people of both races tell you, you're nothing because you don't look 100% like either. It's when groups of people attack you every day after school with weapons because your name doesn't match your skin color. It's being afraid your children will have to go through the same things you did or worse because their skin color doesn't match their ethnicity.
Its being dehumanized and told you don't matter because of your race or skin color. It's being told you have to eat outside with the dog and not at the "family table" because of your skin color, it's being told you can't sit on the furniture because of your skin color. It's being forced to clean the whole house on your hands and knees while the children of a different race get to gout outside and play everyday. It's being locked in your room with bars on the Windows because the "family" doesn't want to see your "white" face. It's being told you are ugly because of your race and you will amount to nothing.
Its being dragged into a church full of one race and being glared at because you don't belong and having people talk about you because you don't belong their. It's being told that everything that happened means nothing and doesn't count because of your race. All the name calling all the abuse all of the beatings it doesn't matter because you look white so it's your fault for looking that way.
THAT IS RACISM. That is only some of my experience with racism. So don't you tell me that I know nothing of racism.
Basically what you said:
http://www.oxygen.com/sites/nbcuoxyg...?itok=Fvbjz92q
And you still didn't learn the difference between racism and prejudice. STILL.
Yea just what I thought you would say. *eyeroll*
It doesn't matter because it wasn't you or someone you knew. Just showing off your intolerance for other races and people's experiences.
Prejudice against someone for their race is racism! How do you not understand that?
Going to be civil and avoid responding to the blatant ignorant trolls in here (why do we still humor Echidna in these discussions, again...?), but I just wanted to come in here after reading Momo's amazing post and say:
https://media.giphy.com/media/MUeQeEQaDCjE4/giphy.gif
I haven't posted on MerNetwork in forever. Came back from the dead literally to just say NOPE to this specific post right here.Quote:
Originally Posted by drucilla
NOPE.
Sigh..... Why do I even bother.
The biggest thing I honestly can't understand is how someone ALWAYS has to come onto a post specifically talking about race and somehow make it about them, like they get uncomfortable because the topic isn't focusing on them and the "racism" they faced (btw, just clicking on ONE of the links above would explain to you the difference between racism and prejudice, but because you won't click on it here's the break down, which I also stated above but fell on deaf ears: racism is systematic and INGRAINED IN SOCIETY. Prejudice is someone being mean to you. )
Literally the only thing you did Drucilla was attempt to turn a subject about mers of color and the theft of cultures into a subject about you and why you have it worst than mers of color. basically you did this:
http://i.imgur.com/4sryFf5.png
Like, okay, people were mean to you because you were white in a community that wasn't, but that is not racism and you won't ever grasp racism until you accept that. You can go ANYWHERE else and not experience ANYTHING close to racism. If you read the first sentence in the quote from the article up above you would have noticed this line:
Which you seem to also chosen to ignore because you wanted to start a "I'm more oppressed than you" war (Which by the way, I'm not even going to humor because it is very clear that you have no desire to even learn because you have avoided every single piece of literature I have posted to try and help you)Quote:
but I could see that theirs was an experience I simply could not know.
I pass for white, easily.
Fuck this shit. I'll read this whole thread after my 2 year anniversary trip is over.
Don't stress yourself out, It honestly isn't even worth it, I'm not even sure why I keep trying tbh. Enjoy your trip away from all the mer-drama!Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaGlass Siren
Momo
http://ct.weirdnutdaily.com/ol/wn/sw...55bfdab09b.jpg
Pretty much impossible to teach people who are unwilling to learn
Delusions are not equal to being an ass.
Just so you know.
http://i.giphy.com/13c2YVh83qgJRS.gifhttp://www.reactiongifs.com/r/crwdc.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by AniaR
Quote:
Originally Posted by drucilla
http://cdn29.elitedaily.com/wp-conte...ntasies3-2.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by drucilla
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/media...9/original.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/12d4iFZ4DaIvQc/giphy.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphire Mermaid
This is the only relevant response I have to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf9QBnPK6Yg
If you look white, you still have the privileges of being/looking white, whether you are of another culture or not. Just like white people who claim they are a minority because they are 16% Cherokee.
You try because you give a shit about inclusion. And you damn well give so many shits about it because black people have been fighting for rights for the longest time and will always fight for people who deserve rights too.
Echidna i see your response. When I get back from vacation I swear I'm going to respond to that insensitive comment as calmly as I fucking cannnnnnn
Oh Hashem, I came into this convo so late.
So, my two cents: Because I am physically white, I don't know anything about the struggles of being any other race. I want to know all I can about how to be respectful towards others, but I will never truly understand their struggle.
In saying that: Rusalka said that tribal tattoos are considered cultural appropriation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea_Angel_Rusalka
I think that in many cases, this is true. I might even be guilty of this. The tribal tattoo on my tail has no actual cultural significance to me, because I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY ANCESTRAL BACKGROUND. But for posterity's sake, I might as well put yellow Jewish stars on my tail, because that's how my family was identified from other "races". Or should I be tattooing numbers on my tail instead?
Next tail design- I'm going to have tattoos of white bread all over my tail. At least that's not offensive.
<insert shade here>
Sometimes we just learn we made a mistake after the fact, and try to learn from it and not do it again. Like when I wore Bindis
It's sad to see this conversation digress this way:( I know how deeply personal this is, and how horrific the consequences of the misunderstandings in society, that lead to fear, that lead to anger, that lead to hate, that lead to deaths.
Or what is most often the case, simply devalued.
The only thing is that when the discussion gets so charged, people stop listening. Learning stops. Change stops. And while I generally tend to recoil from conversations that get this way, not this kind. This is probably one of the most important conversations on this forum or in this nation right now.
Really- half of this argument is about semantics.
Drucilla- are you hearing the difference in what you are talking about and the definition of racism? I want to step in and help, because the back and forth is so unnecessary. It's a definition thing. What they are talking about in terms of racism can't be confined to what's going on in a household, or in a specific school, etc. It's a massive, systematic, institutionalized system that holds a race in power generally speaking. What you suffered is horrible and traumatic and ugly and tragic abuse, and I am so, so sorry that happened to you. I can completely see why that would leave you very emotionally raw in this kind of conversation. I hope that as human beings we can look at each others suffering and unite against the hate that causes that kind of pain, instead of people who are hurting turning against each other.
The reason they are saying that isn't racism is that while it is racially driven maltreatment, racism is what grooms an entire nation of people, like a whole constant brainwashing, a media promoting a Eurocentric beauty standard, an entire political system, people hiring and firing and arresting people, to believe is a hierarchy of worth. And even though abuse destroys a part of you at your core, the thing they are talking about here is that, if you walk down the street, while you carry that pain, the rest of the world sees you a certain way, and treats you accordingly.
So the conversation at hand has GOT to focus on the things contributing to that piece. What is happening in this world and in the mermaid community that are perpetuating that system, and how we can actively dismantle it
So- I am about to do what everyone is going to want to punch me in the face for, and...start a dreads thread.
But it is because I think locks are their own conversation, and also because I think this thread needs to be relieved of that focus.
Please send my hate mail to my personal messages, and refrain from it in comments lol
With all due respect, that is a $3,400 *mistake* that nobody told me I was making.
Secondly, there is decent difference between Native American Tribal and Celtic Tribal. Hell if I know if I'm either or nothing. My grandparents on both sides have been dead for a while, and the Nazis did a good job destroying all family records (at least on my mom's side). My dad's family disowned my family when I was little, so all I know is where my parents were born, where my mom's parents were born, and where I was born. That's it.
Oppression comes in many different forms, and happens to TONS of different people of all shapes, sizes, colors, ethnicities, and yes, even religions. One person's pain can't really be compared to another's. It's not fair. None of this is.
What we can agree on is this: Mers of color, mermen of all shapes and size, mers of varying cultures and religions, and mers of varying body types need to be represented in a respectful, tasteful manner.
There is something special in everyone that deserves to be seen. No two mers are exactly the same, and from the public's standpoint, there seems to be an overwhelming amount of popularity amongst skinny, white, blonde merfolk- and nothing else. The world needs to know that there is so much diversity out there that needs to be seen, not just what the media thinks the general public wants.