Group Therapy: Let's Talk About Drama

There's been some drama lately, and I think it would be good for use to talk about these conflicts a bit. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this- namely where does drama come from, how can we reduce it, and how does it make you feel?

You may have noticed that I don't enjoy policing the board, and generally allow people totally unrestricted free speech, and only ban someone in the case of threats or when someone knowingly posts false information. As for policing people simply being rude, disrespectful, aggressive, or confrontational to others, this requires a lot of subjectivity and vigilant monitoring of all posts.

One possible way to deal with such drama is that I could add a warning that says *CONTAINS DRAMA* to the titles of any thread in which these conflicts emerge so that people are better able to avoid this stuff.

What do you think? How do you react to drama? What can Iona and I do to reduce it? What can the community do to reduce it?

I didnt see this post when I made my post about avoiding review drama, but here it is: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthre...g-review-drama Id love people to read it and give some feedback. I think it's a good idea.

What if we had a report button that would draw a Mods attention to a certain post and or thread, this could help us indicate to you what we don't like seeing in the community and help you avoid having to go over every post with a fine tooth comb. If someone else (or several other someones) hit the button it also would help keep it from just being your personal opinion of whats going to far and what's not being able to express your idea's properly.

Perhaps it would be helpful to create a general Admin account so then all drama related to banning or warning someone isn't directly reflected on you the person but instead comes from an account that could of been any of the mods. This way no one person would have to deal with results of policing directly.

I'm sorta for and sorta against the *CONTAINS DRAMA* posting. It would help avoid drama, but if the first few pages or posts are drama free and contain good information or idea's then several people could miss some great stuff. Also it leads back to the personal definition of drama and if one person labels it as so but others think it's perfectly legit.

Personally I'm really liking the idea of report button. Maybe even include a little section so people could leave a note saying why they felt it should be reported.

i like the report idea, there were some comments made that i was personally offended by in a recent thread that i felt had no bearing whatsoever on the posted thread and were just cruel and unnecessary.

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What if we had a report button that would draw a Mods attention to a certain post and or thread, this could help us indicate to you what we don't like seeing in the community and help you avoid having to go over every post with a fine tooth comb. If someone else (or several other someones) hit the button it also would help keep it from just being your personal opinion of whats going to far and what's not being able to express your idea's properly.

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I'm not sure, but I think what you're describing already exists. There's a button at the bottom of every post that says "Report Post". There's also an option at the top of every thread that lets you review the thread. These features don't appear to get noticed much. It might be possible to try to promote them and raise awareness, though I'm not sure how.

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:O I never even noticed those.... I feel really stupid....

Don't feel stupid! Your idea was so good that it's already in use. :3

I find this thread incredibly ironic.

So guys, keep giving feedback. One of the things I'm very curious about is people's reactions to drama. Personally if I don't want to see that stuff, I just avoid that thread. I understand that many people still read it, even if they hate the drama, rather than ignoring it. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm curious why. share your feeling and motivations guys.


Also, I'd love to hear your thoughts on animated gif images as a method to diffuse tension and lampoon outrageous posts. Why have I never seen anyone on here use them?

I want to know everything, always. That's why I read it.

It's also a habit from real life where everyone always comes to me with their problems so if I was paying attention the whole time and listening and taking in from an unbiased stand point I can help them work through their issues with a clearer understanding of the other side.

As for GIF images and the like, if you find the right one it can be hilarious and resolve a situation easy. It's just finding that perfect one that can be a bit of an art. I'm terrible at it so I just use words ^_^

Here's my knee-jerk reaction to this.
Drama is just another word for conflict, yeah? And there's going to a lot of conflict within a community where we all feel so strongly about what we do, and how and why we do it. I think that Eric draws a lot of the drama because of his personality- he just tends to rub people the wrong way. Add in the fact that he's running a business where people trust him with a lot of their money and here we go! Ever notice how the tail makers with less loud, in-your-face personas don't draw the same emotion?
The drama on here annoys the shit out of me a couple reasons.. first, most everyone gets drawn into it on one level or another and it takes away from all the great information and interaction that goes on without it and second, the more we all sit around and bitch about someone like Eric, who LOVES the attention even when it's negative, we just validate the ridiculous behavior. He's said right on his page that press is press good or bad.
I saw a commercial a while back where all these people are standing around staring at a piece of trash and complaining that someone should do something.... then some guy just walks by, picks up the trash, puts it in the trash can and walks away. Done. So my solution has been to say what I did in the "professional courtesy" thread and act on it. Since I tend to get drawn into Eric crap, I unliked his Facebook page and I'm not reading any reviews for a while. My mind is pretty much made up about the whole thing, its time for me to just get the hell on with my life.
I'll add more to this later

Is it just that I'm new, or am oblivious, or only on the periphery of the mer community? I've noticed a lot of people talking about drama (which, by the way, is an overused and often misused term... if one of my friends complains about drama it usually means "the person in question does stuff that upsets and confuses me and I want you to agree with me that (s)he's crazy/a jerk/bad for me") but I haven't actually been involved with any of it on here myself (or at least, I don't recall being involved... if I was, I do apologize).

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Originally Posted by Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!

Is it just that I'm new, or am oblivious, or only on the periphery of the mer community? I've noticed a lot of people talking about drama (which, by the way, is an overused and often misused term... if one of my friends complains about drama it usually means "the person in question does stuff that upsets and confuses me and I want you to agree with me that (s)he's crazy/a jerk/bad for me") but I haven't actually been involved with any of it on here myself (or at least, I don't recall being involved... if I was, I do apologize).

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I think that one of the major reasons that people like you and me are sort of sitting on the sidelines often baffled by these "dramas" is based on the fact that we may (or may not if you disagree) have a more passive position around here in that we don't actively persue a career, either full or part time, that intersects with the community.

It seems to me that the main sources of friction are when people are discussing something that they paid a considerable amount of cash for and were disappointed with the result or are on the other side of the equation and feel their reputation is being attacked by the criticism.

Maybe we should be glad that we don't have to be involved in the dramas around here.

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Originally Posted by Nate Walis

I think that one of the major reasons that people like you and me are sort of sitting on the sidelines often baffled by these "dramas" is based on the fact that we may (or may not if you disagree) have a more passive position around here in that we don't actively persue a career, either full or part time, that intersects with the community.

It seems to me that the main sources of friction are when people are discussing something that they paid a considerable amount of cash for and were disappointed with the result or are on the other side of the equation and feel their reputation is being attacked by the criticism.

Maybe we should be glad that we don't have to be involved in the dramas around here.

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yup. you hit the nail on the head, Nate. I was a fool to let my limited experience with "people" annoy me to the point where I got drawn into shit that, at the end of the day, didn't affect me.
I'm not pro, and it's time for me to be happy with things as they are like before I got sucked into a bunch of bullshit. I'm happy swimming in my little fabric tail; I'll have a nicer neoprene one soon painted my way, and that's all I care about. Screw the rest. I happily retire to the position of Mer-here-looking-for-advice-and-ideas. Now my chi is aligned. YAY!
I do feel though, that for the people directly impacted by bad experiences with tail makers, they should be able to say how they feel. If it offends you, don't reply, or do when you have cooled off enough to state your side like a GROWN UP. This is a FORUM- which means people are here to talk about things that affect them, among other things. The heart and soul of this community is good, so try to focus on it.

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I do feel though, that for the people directly impacted by bad experiences with tail makers, they should be able to say how they feel. If it offends you,

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No one's sayng we cant, we're trying to find appropriate ways to say it. Piggybacking on a positive review or a completely unrelated post isnt good

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Originally Posted by Aela

I find this thread incredibly ironic.

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It's like raaayyy-EEEaaaa-AAAINNneeee, on your wedding day!

I hate it when a thread I start reading turns into an 'hate Eric' thread. I've never gotten a tail for the guy so I'm not personally familiar with his work, but apparently a lot of people don't like him too much. I still read it, however, just so if anything pops up, I understand what they're talking about. Yesterdays drama normally gets brought up in tomorrows issue as well. I do like the "WARNING DRAMA AHEAD" thing. It's a nice heads up

Like someone already said, threads start out as fine and non-conflict-y but then will devolve. Because of that, it is inappropriate to label the whole thing as having drama. Therefore, I propose that the headings of posts that contain drama be marked with the warning. People can self-regulate (as Raina did when she put the warning on her thread) or an admin could add the title. To make it easier on the admin - so they don't have to go through and read every single post - people can report posts they feel deserve the drama warning with the afore mentioned button in the bottom left corner of each post. Then the admins can decide whether or not they agree with the suggestion. We would all, as a community, make a social pact to accept the judgment of the admins and not get mad or anything if we reported a post and it didn't get a title.

What do you all think?

(ps. to answer your query, malighi, for me the drama is a little entertaining on occasion, because people can be crazy, and I also feel it is important that people feel heard, but on the whole I feel like it infects the community with bad feelings. For example, I think there a tons more Eric haters, justified or not, because of the drama threads, people who might have otherwise had a pleasant experience with him. I feel that it is unhealthy for people to take their arguments into a "public space" for everyone to view and experience. They should either hold their discourse in private, i.e. over PM or something of the kind, or the portion of the thread that contains the drama should be moved to its own thread and limited so only the people involved can have access. This is quite complicated and difficult to get people to acquiesce to, but it's an ideal and might be worth a shot.)

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Piggybacking on a positive review or a completely unrelated post isnt good

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This is a good opportunity to let everyone know that we've implemented a new review system. One of the advantages is that people can't comment on other people's reviews. Check it out here: Tailmaker Reviews
And if you have a tail that you bought, we'd love it if you'd post a review on the new system!

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I hate it when a thread I start reading turns into an 'hate Eric' thread.

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I've been meaning to try to police people more about attacking Eric randomly, but I'm not that diligent about finding drama. For one thing, like I said, I typically don't click on threads that appear to be a big fight. Everyone feel free to bring this stuff to my attention more.

Is there a way to make a section for things that are inflammatory? Not a thread that's mixed in whatever appropriate area of the board, I mean; like a separate subsection where people could go to rant/blow off steam/get it out of their systems/etc. You could post warnings all over it and people could avoid it if they chose. Threads that get overly dramatic could be moved there (Lorelei's 'sick' thread, mertailor rage thread, aela's flounce thread, etc.) I think if that hypothetical section was tempered with a couple of humor threads, it would leach away some of the tension.

You could call it the Soapbubble Opera, lol.

Also, I think it would be good to enable OP's to freeze replies to their own post. Lorelei asked for her thread to be frozen and I don't think it was. If she had been able to freeze it early on, some of that stuff might not have happened.

Actually, my thread was frozen, finally. :>

I honestly only feel like there's been a recent spike in mertailor drama, because he's recently done a lot of really unsmart things. I mean seriously, in the space of a little over a month, there was the very public fighting between Matty and Chris, Lor's tail idea and then all that drama, the FB drama with me that seeped onto the forum because of threats, stalking me on my trip, Bri's terrible tail, and then all the nasty youtube comments. I do understand people are feeling overwhelmed with his drama, but dont forget we took steps to prevent it on our end by changing the reviewing system so people COULDNT boggart those threads. None of the 'drama' has been tacking on to other threads that I know of- it's all been specifically about issues with him from the start. All of it labelled as such. So yeah, it's been overwhelming this past month or so, then again so is his behaviour.

This just seems to be a very active time period for whatever reason. I wouldn't let people get carried away thinking it's the only thing going on here, I mean so many new threads and posts are made every day that have nothing to do with him. i think it just seems all encompassing because he has a way of upsetting HUGE amounts of the community at once, not to mention people who are vocal (like myself). Influx of drama= influx of posts about it. I think we already took a lot of steps with our review system and all the discussion generated on it to prevent drama where we could, and at least identify it. He's gotta meet half way and back off the dramatic activities.

I think threads should only be frozen if the OP requests it or if they break a rule. In rare cases, If someone necro posts on something year(s) old to obviously try to start drama. I dont see a point of making it so only certain people can post in it because if you dont want to post in it no one is forcing you, just like no one forces you to respond. you may also not feel it appropriate to respond in the beginning but then decide you should be the end. Also, we've learned much more about reporting threads now too

But truth be told, the begins of the 'drama' threads actually hold some good suggestions, comforting replies, and well wishing ears. Until people can't stop

I feel at least for me, I know I get really posty, because there is so much egg shell walking that once you find a "Safe place" to vent about the stuff you just go til you have nothing left. Which is what I think happened with Aela's goodbye thread. A lot of people had a lot of stuff they kept silent and finally it was okay to express some of it.

But yeah, I do agree, it tends to go on. I think the issue happens when the thread has finally died down but then someone starts it up again weeks later.

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Originally Posted by Mermaid Lorelei

Actually, my thread was frozen, finally. :>

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*takes fin, inserts in mouth*

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Originally Posted by AniaR

I feel at least for me, I know I get really posty, because there is so much egg shell walking that once you find a "Safe place" to vent about the stuff you just go til you have nothing left. Which is what I think happened with Aela's goodbye thread. A lot of people had a lot of stuff they kept silent and finally it was okay to express some of it.

But yeah, I do agree, it tends to go on. I think the issue happens when the thread has finally died down but then someone starts it up again weeks later.

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Maybe the whole forum could have a 'READ ME BEFORE POSTING' post which asks people to look at dates on posts, and not necro old ones that had drama in them to comment on said drama? It would have to be an honor system kind of thing, but it might help since more and more people are coming here lately, and may not know about all the stuff that happened or whatever.

I'm gonna be honest, since I arrived here about a month ago, I have avoided drama threads entirely, skimming through any drama that happens on threads i want to read for educational purposes.
I dont have any emotional ties to any one really (yet ^.^) and generally see it all as if I was just coming into a new family where tension already exists.

For instance, since it is such a hot button for excitement: I've seen erics work (gyad damn are his tails beautiful in photos, I admit to still lusting after that gold and bluegreen one regularly), as well as plenty of other tail makers from perusing youtube, the forum, and other google sites and my opinion is generally that if a manufacturer has had major complaints (any manufacturer of any kind, not just mer), complaints that I would deem absolutely unacceptable if I were engaged in business with them, then I steer clear in general. Not saying that exceptions are impossible, but improbable.

When I was motorcycling, the gangs I would ride with would give me honest advice about the shops I took my bike to, and products I would purchase for my bike and my own gear, and generally I listened to them, especially the harder, more experienced riders.. But, that being said, I did make decisions based on my own preferences, damn their opinions if need be. ie: "you're such a small girl you shouldn't ride anything larger than a 600cc motorcycle".. and here I am 1850cc's later and still dragging knee around them..
Thats the way of the world.
Take peoples opinions with a grain of salt, don't be afraid to do things of your own volition. We learn best from our mistakes not our triumphs.

Drama or conflict is a part of life, and it has its place, but getting swept up in it is as dangerous as a rip tide.
I appreciate the candor I've seen on this forum. Not the spats.

So please- continue to be honest! Be real about the issue, but lets not get petty.
I'd like to see threads generally locked when things get petty, or for there to be a three count warning system if there isn't one (not to ban some one, but to let them know that 'hey.. take a deep breath.. we appreciate you and your opinion but reign it in for posterities sake..')
Wheedling at each other is just frustrating for others who are conflict wary and may discourage some from taking part in a conversation that they have genuine unbiased questions about for fear of being belittled or snapped at.

I love this forum! I really like the people involved with it, and see it as a wonderful place to find like minded mers to confer and brainstorm with, as well as shoot the breeze. So- thanks for making the site and I hope it stays peaceful and welcoming ^.^

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*takes fin, inserts in mouth*

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*giggle* dont worry, I do that daily. :p <3

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Maybe the whole forum could have a 'READ ME BEFORE POSTING' post which asks people to look at dates on posts, and not necro old ones that had drama in them to comment on said drama? It would have to be an honor system kind of thing, but it might help since more and more people are coming here lately, and may not know about all the stuff that happened or whatever.

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I think that's a good idea. Maybe having a rule don't resurrect an old post for the sake of drama. If you have an issue you need the community to know about, or a negative review etc start your own thread. I didnt really like the stuff all over the WMA threads- since it's practically a year ago. Everyone's moved on no need to stir it up.

Mermasaai I REALLY appreciate your input. I think we old timers do worry about scaring off the newbs. I think many would relate to what you say though,. I really personally feel drama just revolves around a select group of people (me being one of them) and I don't see it as something that affects the whole site. There is so much going on with this forum, so many amazing things, and I know my life has been positively changed from being apart of it. Without this forum I'd still have a horrible tail I couldnt swim in. I probably wouldnt have travelled to Florida, be nowhere in my mermaid identity, and have none of the amazing friends here I've made.

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Originally Posted by nirix5

Maybe the whole forum could have a 'READ ME BEFORE POSTING' post which asks people to look at dates on posts, and not necro old ones that had drama in them to comment on said drama? It would have to be an honor system kind of thing, but it might help since more and more people are coming here lately, and may not know about all the stuff that happened or whatever.

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I've learned people very seldom actually read the "Read before posting" stickies. Even if it answers common questions or even tells you what the section is for, the posts make it obvious that they didn't get read. Even if I "bump" it to draw attention to it. Not much to be done there besides be annoyed I suppose. :/

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Originally Posted by nirix5

Also, I think it would be good to enable OP's to freeze replies to their own post. Lorelei asked for her thread to be frozen and I don't think it was. If she had been able to freeze it early on, some of that stuff might not have happened.

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The problem is that often times the drama is so concentrated into one chunk of time where there are so many posts that by the time an Admin sees it there has already been a lot going on. Also both me and Malinghi are pretty busy with our personal lives, and posts can slip through the cracks if we're not reading every thread every day.

If someone wants or needs a post locked the BEST thing to do is to report the original post and state that they are the original poster of the thread and that they'd like it locked. If it isn't as urgent you can always email mernetwork@gmail.com or send a PM to one of the admins. If it is SUPER extremely urgent email RainbowEyes@txt.att.net.

Don't be afraid to report a thread if need be! It lets the admins know in a timely manner that something is up and steps need to be taken. We can't do anything if we don't know what's going on, and your help is vital in a site this large (posts wise).

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Originally Posted by AniaR

Maybe having a rule don't resurrect an old post for the sake of drama. If you have an issue you need the community to know about, or a negative review etc start your own thread. I didnt really like the stuff all over the WMA threads- since it's practically a year ago. Everyone's moved on no need to stir it up.

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We'll defiantly consider this. Could be some gray areas in there, but I suppose we can deal with that when we come to it. As long as people remember that in the end the Admins are the ones that make the calls on what is and what isn't considered breaking certian rules. There are gray areas that we have to deal with.



Also Mermasaai that was very well said! People often see reviews as drama, but it's an invaluable resource to have if you're looking for opinions and input. Heck I scour Amazon, and other places for reviews, all the time even for things I'm going to buy in store to make sure my money is well spent! There will always be good and bad reviews, it's just a matter of having the information then making a educated decision or forming a personal opinion. I too am glad to see we aren't scaring off all of the new people :P

Lets face it,

dramas going to happen despite what we say or do. I know this might seem weird but how about a drama board.. i have one on my forum where members can vent and complain about random things, therefore its kept out of all other boards and those who choose to read can, those who dont, do not have to deal with that board at all.. but i agree there's been a bit of anti mertailor going about the forum lately and i understand why... No im not against anyone i just feel sometimes even through all the carp some of us have been through, we have matured and warn others about previous experiences and can sometimes leave it at that.

nirix, I like your title. that is all

putting people on your ignore list is also really helpful :) then you dont even have to see their posts

I will more than likely get beaten by a few fins here but I might as well say it.I joined to support Star in her quest to become a better mermaid and learn more to help her do so. I like Drama to a point. I like TRUE debate. I like Constructed conflict it is how we grow in some ways. Now I have been involved in some of the drama lately but mainly because it was connected to my Girlfriend. Like Matty in that way if you bad mouth my girl or I feel you have threatened her I will get reactionary. At one point I tried to help by making a debate thread to draw the drama off of pages, but that kind of fell to way bottom of the ocean. (sorry I also like puns) Lets face it though a lot of people on here are entertainers (actors, performers, ect) Drama will happen and will happen often. No matter what we do save for shutting down the board and never speaking to anyone who likes the same things we do we will have to always deal with drama. What we then need to do is if we are trying to lessen the drama look to see who is at that point causing the most drama and is the drama they are causing justified or are they becoming a bully/ Drama bomb. Then if the person who has done this and has in fact caused the most drama that was only negative perhaps they should be suspended as a warning given a second suspension if they do it again and then plain ole booted and banned from the board. maybe if we report the drama more often it might become easier to see for the admins

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Originally Posted by nirix5

Is there a way to make a section for things that are inflammatory? Not a thread that's mixed in whatever appropriate area of the board, I mean; like a separate subsection where people could go to rant/blow off steam/get it out of their systems/etc. You could post warnings all over it and people could avoid it if they chose. Threads that get overly dramatic could be moved there (Lorelei's 'sick' thread, mertailor rage thread, aela's flounce thread, etc.) I think if that hypothetical section was tempered with a couple of humor threads, it would leach away some of the tension.

You could call it the Soapbubble Opera, lol.

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When you posted this there was a Drama Thread. I move dramatic individual posts or whole topics that have gotten off topic or are just dramatic to that thread. People can chose to continue their disagreements/hash it out there if they want, but they still have to follow the rules. I've now taken your suggestion and created a "Soapbubble Opera / Drama" thread where people can go to vent. I just hope people are reasonable enough to know when to use it so I don't have to move posts all the time.