(( The Drama Bubble Thread ))

[Mermaid Lunette]

I got a couple

Ended my almost 9 year relationship. Couldnt stay faithful.

Second. Being threatened by other mers on here. No you dont have the right to make other people feel bad. Or try to. You dont get to stalk them to find out more info to try to use against them. But if you bring it up, so no one else ends up threatened as well and its swept under the goddamn rug. Just because your "famous" doesnt make you better then anyone else.

so sorry to hear you are going through this! i am sure it is very frustrating.

[Venessa Louisiana Mermaid]

So here is the deal. A few weeks ago, my friend Lotus Mermaid was very upset that another mermaid had decided to take the same name. I along with Mermaid SHannon contacted that mermaid and politely pointed out the faux pas to her. There were no threats, profanity...nothing. That mermaid took to the forum here and cried foul, and several other mers jumped on board saying some nasty things about both Lotus and Shannon and I. Well, that went over as expected and got ugly really fast. I accept responsibility for my part in that.

Now, the person I took most issue with was Jamie here, who I'll be honest....got to me. And that is hard to do because I have a pretty thick skin. Iona locked the thread and she and I carried on back and forth on PMs for several days after. We BOTH said terrible things to each other. Not my finest moment, I admit. Not a reflection of who I really am either, but again....I was determined to piss off the one who pissed me off. I got bored finally, said my piece and blocked her. And quite honestly have not thought of her since. I hear today though that Jamie is still brooding on this apparently and smearing me in other forums, groups, whatever. Jamie....I'm sorry. I'm sorry for what I said...and I am sorry you are still upset about it. I dont know you, and you dont know me and plenty of assumptions were made. Frankly, many of the people jumping to the other Lotus's side only had half the story.

Here is a fun fact: Many of you have preconceived notions of me based on fights that I used to have with Raina on here. Well here's proof people can move past all that....Raina and Shannon and I are all friends now and planning on collaborating on some future projects. That whole thing was a learning experience for me. Here is another fact...I find there is a disconnect between the MerNetwork world and the actual world of professional mermaids. Many times there are things going on or information that not everyone on here is privy too. So keep that in mind before all the judgment and outrage flows freely.

[Venessa Louisiana Mermaid]

I find unprofessional that a new tailmaker on the rise promote - in a way - her business in the post of the sale of my tail. :thumbdown:
People have a right to buy used tails even if the cost is similar.

rant/done.

Well we know that person's agenda thought right Arion? And she is unstable at best.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Good on you for apologizing Venessa!
Moving forward let's all hope nothing like that get explodes out of proportion .

[Mermaid Kelda]

Well we know that person's agenda thought right Arion? And she is unstable at best.
Don't comment on people's mental health over the internet, please.

[SeaGlass Siren]

^that too.

[AniaR]

I find unprofessional that a new tailmaker on the rise promote - in a way - her business in the post of the sale of my tail. [emoji107]
People have a right to buy used tails even if the cost is similar.

rant/done.
Arion it really upset me when I saw that too.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

Don't comment on people's mental health over the internet, please.
Unstable just means unstable. In many aspects. It doesn't mean mental health. I'm currently financially unstable. My health is unstable. My job unstable. And those thing effect my choices in life. So if someone were to say I'm unstable, they'd be correct. The person who left comments on Arions post most certainly is unstable in many aspects of their life. Which hopefully helps Arion go know not to take their comments personally because that person is dealing with a lot

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

So here is the deal. A few weeks ago, my friend Lotus Mermaid was very upset that another mermaid had decided to take the same name. I along with Mermaid SHannon contacted that mermaid and politely pointed out the faux pas to her. There were no threats, profanity...nothing. That mermaid took to the forum here and cried foul, and several other mers jumped on board saying some nasty things about both Lotus and Shannon and I. Well, that went over as expected and got ugly really fast. I accept responsibility for my part in that.

Now, the person I took most issue with was Jamie here, who I'll be honest....got to me. And that is hard to do because I have a pretty thick skin. Iona locked the thread and she and I carried on back and forth on PMs for several days after. We BOTH said terrible things to each other. Not my finest moment, I admit. Not a reflection of who I really am either, but again....I was determined to piss off the one who pissed me off. I got bored finally, said my piece and blocked her. And quite honestly have not thought of her since. I hear today though that Jamie is still brooding on this apparently and smearing me in other forums, groups, whatever. Jamie....I'm sorry. I'm sorry for what I said...and I am sorry you are still upset about it. I dont know you, and you dont know me and plenty of assumptions were made. Frankly, many of the people jumping to the other Lotus's side only had half the story.

Here is a fun fact: Many of you have preconceived notions of me based on fights that I used to have with Raina on here. Well here's proof people can move past all that....Raina and Shannon and I are all friends now and planning on collaborating on some future projects. That whole thing was a learning experience for me. Here is another fact...I find there is a disconnect between the MerNetwork world and the actual world of professional mermaids. Many times there are things going on or information that not everyone on here is privy too. So keep that in mind before all the judgment and outrage flows freely.
Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

I really do find people make posts and threads here about issues they should be at least attempting to deal with privately, and then people who want to support but don't know any better come in and add fuel to the fire. I've made a real effort this past while to either a) get the whole story before I make a reply or b) just stay out of threads that have nothing to do with me. Not perfect at it yet... But I think if we all tried it a lot more of the forum based drama wouldn't happen.

I felt that entire situation was handled inappropriatly and shouldn't have even been on the forum.

Mers on mernetwork who haven't been around that long also really do need to acknowledge that there is a whole history that is valid that is out there, and that the Mer world is so much bigger than just what they see on their own online bubble.

Heck one of the biggest reasons I get dragged into stuff is because I've been around longer than like 90% of the people here, and been active that long. I remember all the stuff that has gone down.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Mermaid Lilium]

- Sorry wrong thread, stupid phone reverted threads on Tapatalk somehow -

[Mermaid Kelda]

Unstable just means unstable. In many aspects. It doesn't mean mental health. I'm currently financially unstable. My health is unstable. My job unstable. And those thing effect my choices in life. So if someone were to say I'm unstable, they'd be correct. The person who left comments on Arions post most certainly is unstable in many aspects of their life. Which hopefully helps Arion go know not to take their comments personally because that person is dealing with a lot
I think it was pretty clear Vanessa meant mental health, especially with the addition of the "at best". Even if it wasn't meant that way, that's how it came across.

[Starfrit]

I think it was pretty clear Vanessa meant mental health, especially with the addition of the "at best". Even if it wasn't meant that way, that's how it came across.

^This. Considering her and Shannon's history of resorting to "lol take your medication"-style comments when they get involved in drama, it's really not that difficult to come to the conclusion that that's maybe what she meant with the "unstable" remark.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Although we're friends, I'm gonna agree with tieri on this one.

[AniaR]

Once again though, I feel this is a case of people on mernetwork having an opinion without knowing all the context. if you saw the comment, knew who made it, and saw their behaviour, you'd likely make the same observation.

[Venessa Louisiana Mermaid]

I really do find people make posts and threads here about issues they should be at least attempting to deal with privately, and then people who want to support but don't know any better come in and add fuel to the fire. I've made a real effort this past while to either a) get the whole story before I make a reply or b) just stay out of threads that have nothing to do with me. Not perfect at it yet... But I think if we all tried it a lot more of the forum based drama wouldn't happen.

I felt that entire situation was handled inappropriatly and shouldn't have even been on the forum.

Mers on mernetwork who haven't been around that long also really do need to acknowledge that there is a whole history that is valid that is out there, and that the Mer world is so much bigger than just what they see on their own online bubble.

Heck one of the biggest reasons I get dragged into stuff is because I've been around longer than like 90% of the people here, and been active that long. I remember all the stuff that has gone down.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


OMG, THIS. AMEN, AMEN, AMEN. I feel as though so many people on here are only exposed to a very small part of the community, and perhaps it is best for them that way. But it is also foolish when they attempt to vilify someone immediately based on that sliver they know about. And Tieri, you make what conclusions you will, I do not need your approval or assumptions in my conversations so kindly mind your business.

[Mermaid Kelda]

And Tieri, you make what conclusions you will, I do not need your approval or assumptions in my conversations so kindly mind your business.
I don't even know the details that the rest of the folks involved in this drama think they know, never mind the rest, so I'm not going to comment on any of that. But what I definitely have seen is your treatment of people who disagree with you. You may be right/wrong/a combination of both in any given situation but none of that gives you (or Shannon) the right to "insult" people by playing on the stigma of mental health. It's just not acceptable and Tieri is 100% correct to call you out on that.

[Venessa Louisiana Mermaid]

I don't even know the details that the rest of the folks involved in this drama think they know, never mind the rest, so I'm not going to comment on any of that. But what I definitely have seen is your treatment of people who disagree with you. You may be right/wrong/a combination of both in any given situation but none of that gives you (or Shannon) the right to "insult" people by playing on the stigma of mental health. It's just not acceptable and Tieri is 100% correct to call you out on that.

Well if you are looking from an apology from me on that to you or Tieri, you won't get it because I have never done this to either of you. You are simply a bystander involving yourself in something that has nothing to do with you and Tieri is making an assumption. I do recall doing this to Raina once in the past but she and I have made our peace. So again, you both can mind your business.

[Merman Arion]

Ladies, this has got to stop.

As one of the victims of the foul play of the person Venessa is referencing, unstable is pretty much the right word for it. Exactly the way Raina described it.

I'm sorry but on this one, I'm gonna side with them as I know the whole context. Heck, I even got dragged into the drama without knowing it and thanks to Shannon, I opened my eyes. So please, stop. Venessa previously apologized for her behavior about the wording, there is no need to bring up this topic again and see her as an enemy. Contrary to what you might believe, I fairly think she's a good person.

I moved on. People should do the same.

[Mermaid Kelda]

I'm not asking you to apologise to me. The fact that you haven't done it to me does not make it okay :\ if no one speaks up about this sort of thing then it keeps happening. I just want you to understand that sort of thing isn't okay and is actually quite harmful and disrespectful to people who have mental illnesses. If not, that's your decision, I'm not going to argue. It's in the domain of the admins to decide if what you say breaks any rules.

Edit: Arion, I'm not speaking just of this incident. It's happened many times to many people on the forum. Maybe this time it was correct, I don't know, but the many other times it was inappropriate.

[Venessa Louisiana Mermaid]

I'm not asking you to apologise to me. The fact that you haven't done it to me does not make it okay :\ if no one speaks up about this sort of thing then it keeps happening. I just want you to understand that sort of thing isn't okay and is actually quite harmful and disrespectful to people who have mental illnesses. If not, that's your decision, I'm not going to argue. It's in the domain of the admins to decide if what you say breaks any rules.

Edit: Arion, I'm not speaking just of this incident. It's happened many times to many people on the forum. Maybe this time it was correct, I don't know, but the many other times it was inappropriate.

No, it happened one time, to Raina. Everyone collectively lost their shit, as well they should have. Like Arion said, we've all moved on. You should too.

[Mermaid Kelda]

Sorry, I was speaking of you and Shannon as a pair when I said it had happened before, which wasn't entirely fair. Here's the one I was thinking of from a few pages back:


You should ask your doctor if Prozac is right for you. Surely you're not this cranky all the time.
Which was directed to Tieri.


I can't be bothered trying to look for more because I don't think it would add anything meaningful. I've said what I wanted to say so I'mma bow out.

[Venessa Louisiana Mermaid]

Sorry, I was speaking of you and Shannon as a pair when I said it had happened before, which wasn't entirely fair. Here's the one I was thinking of from a few pages back:


Which was directed to Tieri.


I can't be bothered trying to look for more because I don't think it would add anything meaningful. I've said what I wanted to say so I'mma bow out.



Yeah. Well, as inseperable and Shannon and I are in real life and apparently in people's heads, we are in fact, two different people. So when you take issue with one of us, please direct it to that specific person. That way we can appropriately identify the source of the butthurt and make moves to correct it if we feel it is warranted. Thank you.

[AniaR]

Yeah Venessa made one comment I know of, to me, and was suspended for it. I'm over it.

Shannon has a sense of humor that is sarcastic and doesn't always translate well online til you get to know her.

The issue here is that the comment left on Arions classified post really was inappropriate, and that persons actions have been very hurtful to many in the community these days. Arion is right to vent about it, but I do think we all need to take a collective look at what really should be posted on mernetwork, and what we decide to comment on.

In the same way many members get frustrated when a newb comes on and blows up the forum, a lot of us long time members of the community get annoyed when people start forming opinions on stuff long before their time that they don't have all the context to.

I used to message Teiri when drama was going on to give her back story, lol
But I am too dang busy these days to keep up on everything.

I think a lot of old timers leave the forum or feel detached from it because of a lot of this stuff. For me personally I find it really hard having so few Mer yukus around.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

^ thanks for clarifying Raina.

[Merman Arion]

I was over it. I had moved on from all the drama she put me through.

Then, why the fuck is she coming back to tell me more and more bullshit??!!

:headwall:

[AniaR]

yeah Arion I have been seeing some terrible stuff from this person lately and her partner. I am about to blow my top. from sending anon hate texts to people, to having her kid send messages on her behalf to argue with others. I am about ready to dump the whole thing here.

[Starfrit]

..... o-o What the hell is happening now??

[Ashe]

..... o-o What the hell is happening now??
Ditto. Is this the same thing that was happening last week?

[Mermaid Mystery]

Ditto. Is this the same thing that was happening last week?

what was happening last week? what? I'm so out of it.

[AniaR]

just the person Arion is complaining about, doing more awful things. I just got a screenshot of her lying about me and saying not so nice things, and it's frustrating because at the time she was saying this to someone else, I was helping her with something and she was being nice to me.

don't two faced people suck?

[SeaGlass Siren]

Oh Jesus...

[MermaidShannon]

I got a couple

Ended my almost 9 year relationship. Couldnt stay faithful.

Second. Being threatened by other mers on here. No you dont have the right to make other people feel bad. Or try to. You dont get to stalk them to find out more info to try to use against them. But if you bring it up, so no one else ends up threatened as well and its swept under the goddamn rug. Just because your "famous" doesnt make you better then anyone else.

WHAAATTTTTTYLTTTTTTT?????? No one "famous" around here. lol. Oh dear. Why would anyone be mean to you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MermaidShannon]

I'm a little irritated because one mermaid keeps messaging all my friends and saying rude things. She has this holier than thou attitude and says she hates gossip but she perpetuates a ton of it. The people she's still friends with think she's gone whacko from post pregnancy hormones because she's acting so weird. I messaged her and told her she disgusted me behaving this way because I like to handle things head on. Now I'm calling you out "Ronnie" I know what you're doing I read all the messages so knock it off or talk to me directly. Or pray. I don't know. Just stop already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

... Was she actually pregnant and now has post partum depression? Because that sucks for everyone, and I'm not a religious person but I will pray for both of you.

[MermaidShannon]

Thank you that's very kind. I don't think she has that it was just something a few people said when telling me she was saying Venessa and I are bad apples. Then she blocks people for staying friends with us. I challenge any of you to get to know me. Friend me. Let's talk. I doubt you'll dislike me or Venessa.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

I has you on the face of book already lah
i can attest to this

[Coradion]

I got a couple

Ended my almost 9 year relationship. Couldnt stay faithful.

Second. Being threatened by other mers on here. No you dont have the right to make other people feel bad. Or try to. You dont get to stalk them to find out more info to try to use against them. But if you bring it up, so no one else ends up threatened as well and its swept under the goddamn rug. Just because your "famous" doesnt make you better then anyone else.

Precisely my feelings on the second subject, and on the first I'm sorry about your relationship.

[Mermaid Momo]

okay this is technically a bitch but since I'm aware it might start drama, I'll post it here.

My problem? Mernetwork is getting hostile towards mers of color (and I'm not even the only mer of color who thinks this, I've had a lot of mers come to me with their experiences on MN, from a post I made on tumblr a while back and since then it's gone around a few blogs who sometimes message me with reasons why they don't use MN or stay out of the mercommunity)

I've been noticing a LOT of hostility towards poc. (one that comes directly to mind is when a certain member posted "all J*ps are bad and won't change because they are bad people" or something along those lines in the thread about the dolphin slaughter and when I went in and told said member that they can't make blanket statements like that and that also they used a slur, they proceeded to use the slur again in response to me about how the Japanese are apparently scum of the earth) One mer of color directly gave me that post as to why she doesn't get on MN, being that she is Japanese she felt unwelcome by that post and the member's response to people of Japanese descent.

Another post is where a member went on about how immigrants need to go away, how they're all dirty, ruining their country, and how somehow people seeking refuge from war is on the same level as them moving a pet.

I've kept my mouth shut about it all, about how I've been noticing that with new members coming and old yuku members leaving, MN isn't a place that I as a MOC or other MOC want to be. And tbh, I'm tired of just staring at problematic microaggressions being posted on the forum and I am letting members know that I will call you out if I see it from now on. I will not let mers of color be pushed out of the community because some mers don't know how to keep their mouths shut and not say racist things, or other mers in the community choose to ignore it and let it slide. No more. MN should be just as much as a safe space for mers of color as any other mer and mers shouldn't get on to MN to be confronted with racial slurs.

[Mermaid Kelda]

Momo, I saw all that too and it horrified me. At the time I had already spoken up about a different issue and felt depleted but I always regret not saying something when I see it. I think we all need to make a conscious decision to not be bystanders on this sort of thing, because when no one posts to disagree with something it can often seem like no one actually disagrees. We all need to come in to speak up about stuff so others know it's not acceptable, and so it doesn't keep happening.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

okay this is technically a bitch but since I'm aware it might start drama, I'll post it here.

My problem? Mernetwork is getting hostile towards mers of color (and I'm not even the only mer of color who thinks this, I've had a lot of mers come to me with their experiences on MN, from a post I made on tumblr a while back and since then it's gone around a few blogs who sometimes message me with reasons why they don't use MN or stay out of the mercommunity)

I've been noticing a LOT of hostility towards poc. (one that comes directly to mind is when a certain member posted "all J*ps are bad and won't change because they are bad people" or something along those lines in the thread about the dolphin slaughter and when I went in and told said member that they can't make blanket statements like that and that also they used a slur, they proceeded to use the slur again in response to me about how the Japanese are apparently scum of the earth) One mer of color directly gave me that post as to why she doesn't get on MN, being that she is Japanese she felt unwelcome by that post and the member's response to people of Japanese descent.

Another post is where a member went on about how immigrants need to go away, how they're all dirty, ruining their country, and how somehow people seeking refuge from war is on the same level as them moving a pet.

I've kept my mouth shut about it all, about how I've been noticing that with new members coming and old yuku members leaving, MN isn't a place that I as a MOC or other MOC want to be. And tbh, I'm tired of just staring at problematic microaggressions being posted on the forum and I am letting members know that I will call you out if I see it from now on. I will not let mers of color be pushed out of the community because some mers don't know how to keep their mouths shut and not say racist things, or other mers in the community choose to ignore it and let it slide. No more. MN should be just as much as a safe space for mers of color as any other mer and mers shouldn't get on to MN to be confronted with racial slurs.

Oh I saw that post... It shocked and offended me, it usually takes more than a words to offend me but that post.. Ugh! I'm not Japanese but Chinese, the way she said it really hurt me deep inside, how anyone in this 21st century still behaves like that. And the fact that she in my friends list... Well not anymore. Had to put up with this kind of attitude in the 80s when we first moved to Australia, what with people staring at us like they've never seen Chinese people before. Sorry, not worth the effort to want to be friends with.

[Theobromine]

I saw both of those posts. I agree they were unacceptable. I was offended too. I've noticed several such posts lately and I know some other mers who have mentioned feeling that this community has been feeling rather toxic lately, rather than friendly and welcoming as it should be. ....I just want to remind everyone that you can report offensive posts. I think a lot of people (myself included until recently) forget that's an option. You just click on the little triangle with an exclamation point in the bottom left corner of a post. I'm not trying to encourage people to go reporting stuff left and right just because they disagree with a person's views, but for offensive, derogatory, problematic posts, especially containing racism or hate speech of any type, I would say go for it. That sort of behavior isn't allowed on MN and reporting such offensive posts are the best way to bring it to an admin's attention.

[Mermaid Momo]

I think I legit stared at the post and read it over like 5 times just to make sure they did indeed post it. Then I sat and thought about what in God's name possessed them to post that and think it was okay to do, even when someone told them that their original post was problematic.

[Mermaid Mystery]

I saw one of those posts. it's gross how people can think like that. Seriously, call them out on it. some things need to be said.

[shimmygoddess]

I saw one of those posts. it's gross how people can think like that. Seriously, call them out on it. some things need to be said.

dont know what is going on, but if people are being assholes, then yes they should be called out on that! Too many people are afraid to speak up.

[Starfrit]

Holy crap, Momo— I saw the comment about the "J*ps" before it was force-edited by admin, and I was actually horrified. I didn't see the stuff about immigrants. What the hell makes people think this kind of stuff is okay??

You're definitely right about the hostility towards MOC though, I've noticed it a lot recently too— and I've seen some ESPECIALLY disgusting stuff on here even from regular members!

It's sad because I've been on the forums for less than two years and I'm starting to lose a lot of respect for people I previously looked up to, because of the grossly racist and ableist things they say, or agree/enable other people to say. There are periods where I'll go weeks, months, etc. just lurking on the forums now because of this stuff.

And then heaven forbid you jump in to point out that someone's behavior is extremely shitty, because then you're just accused of sticking your nose where it doesn't belong and your concerns are brushed off entirely. :/ There's no winning with some of the people here and it's getting really old, really fast.

[AniaR]

are we seriously having members on here attack MOC?! totally not OK. I musta missed that one.

[Ashe]

Momo, I am so glad you're standing up. I saw the posts as well but they were already shot down before I could say anything. The sad thing is, it isn't MerNetwork, it's simply bigoted, biased and ignorant people. You see it everywhere directed towards anyone who is not white cis and straight. Unfortunately, we have these stupid people. Sure, have your opinions, but we do not need to hear your trash in our 'loving' community, especially when the community is made up of people you are spewing at.

Momo, I know how you feel. Somehow, there are homophobics on the forum (I'm sorry, but we're MERFOLK. How are there homophobes?), and I've seen hate directed towards the LGBT community and have even had people leave private groups simply because other members were LGBT. It's a crap feeling.

God rasism is absolute sh*t. Homophobia is sh*t. Hate is just sh*t.

[Ashe]

It's sad because I've been on the forums for less than two years and I'm starting to lose a lot of respect for people I previously looked up to, because of the grossly racist and ableist things they say, or agree/enable other people to say. There are periods where I'll go weeks, months, etc. just lurking on the forums now because of this stuff.

This one right here

[Sabrina the Selkie]

Agreed.
I didn't see the one about the Japanese, but I did see the one about immigration. *grrr*
(Grandparents are hispanic migrants to America, study Japanese, etc)

[AniaR]

can someone please tell me they were reported and if not report them again! I know the mods were super busy and sometimes things get missed.

[Mermaid Wesley]

I missed these particular posts (did see the J-slur one a while back but it had been handled) but feel free to message me if you would like me to step in and stop a situation that is racist, ableist or otherwise bigoted. I'm not an admin, but i am online a bit more often than the admins (due to my lack of a life) and I wouldn't hesitate to delete the post and issue a serious warning (or inform the admins to ban someone in the case of a repeat offense) I know I speak for the admins when I say that this should be a welcoming inclusive space and hate-speech is not tolerated.

edit: I don't receive notifications for reported posts so if the admins don't act immediately with regards to hate speech please message me or Spindrift :)

[Starfrit]

can someone please tell me they were reported and if not report them again! I know the mods were super busy and sometimes things get missed.

I don't know about whoever made the immigration comments, but the user who made the comments of "the only way of dealing with the J*ps is to drop another bomb on them" (paraphrased obvs) was almost immediately hit by the admins and the user was given a warning. From what I can tell they haven't been active since.

[Sabrina the Selkie]

Jeez thats an extreme statement.
As for the immigration one, I don't think it was reported.
It was essentially a rant from one member about wanting to move elsewhere and then a person from that particular elsewhere complaining about hikes in property taxes to pay for refugees, and saying that the move might not be economically feasible.
It was not said that mildly, though.
She did proceed to complain about uncleanliness and about how difficult it is for her to travel with her cats while immigrants are filling the country.

It was just sly enough that people were probably rereading it trying to figure out why it unsettled them, y'know?

And thank you, Wesley.

[Ashe]

The constant ableist remarks make me so angry, as some of my best friends suffer from mental and even a few physical disorders. People think that it is totally alright to set the blame on someone due to their disabilities.

[Mermaid Lunette]

i feel like the immigrant comments are in the b- it out thread, because recently there has been someone complaining about them often and although i do not believe they used slurs there is microaggression galore and so far no one has comented about it directly in the thread yet. (i actually think the only comments about it so far have been in support of the racist comments :'(

(although, i might be thinkin of a different instance, i am not sure.)

[Sabrina the Selkie]

And that is just awful.
What did these ableist comments entail, exactly? (I may not be as sensitive as I should be to them, and while I don't think I would SAY something like that, I might not pick up on ones that are just slipped into the conversation.)

[Sabrina the Selkie]

I think we're thinking about the same comments, Lunette. The aggression was fairly subtle.

[Mermaid Mystery]

Jeez thats an extreme statement.
As for the immigration one, I don't think it was reported.
It was essentially a rant from one member about wanting to move elsewhere and then a person from that particular elsewhere complaining about hikes in property taxes to pay for refugees, and saying that the move might not be economically feasible.
It was not said that mildly, though.
She did proceed to complain about uncleanliness and about how difficult it is for her to travel with her cats while immigrants are filling the country.

I've seen a lot of stuff from this person that's very aggressive and downright incorrect. i would speak up but I don't want to start things, because I have before and it never works out well.

[Mermaid Mystery]

The constant ableist remarks make me so angry, as some of my best friends suffer from mental and even a few physical disorders. People think that it is totally alright to set the blame on someone due to their disabilities.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mermaid Momo]

I've seen a lot of stuff from this person that's very aggressive and downright incorrect. i would speak up but I don't want to start things, because I have before and it never works out well.
Same with me with this particular person, just can't seem to get through to them and posts trying to educate them seem to hit a wall tbh.

[Sabrina the Selkie]

I think I agree with that. Both about the person, and about not wanting to start stuff.

[Mermaid Mystery]

absolutely. it's so hard to get through to them and I wish I could because a lot of things they're saying can be harmful if seen by someone who has no previous knowledge of a subject.

[SeaGlass Siren]

okay this is technically a bitch but since I'm aware it might start drama, I'll post it here.

My problem? Mernetwork is getting hostile towards mers of color (and I'm not even the only mer of color who thinks this, I've had a lot of mers come to me with their experiences on MN, from a post I made on tumblr a while back and since then it's gone around a few blogs who sometimes message me with reasons why they don't use MN or stay out of the mercommunity)

I've been noticing a LOT of hostility towards poc. (one that comes directly to mind is when a certain member posted "all J*ps are bad and won't change because they are bad people" or something along those lines in the thread about the dolphin slaughter and when I went in and told said member that they can't make blanket statements like that and that also they used a slur, they proceeded to use the slur again in response to me about how the Japanese are apparently scum of the earth) One mer of color directly gave me that post as to why she doesn't get on MN, being that she is Japanese she felt unwelcome by that post and the member's response to people of Japanese descent.

Another post is where a member went on about how immigrants need to go away, how they're all dirty, ruining their country, and how somehow people seeking refuge from war is on the same level as them moving a pet.

I've kept my mouth shut about it all, about how I've been noticing that with new members coming and old yuku members leaving, MN isn't a place that I as a MOC or other MOC want to be. And tbh, I'm tired of just staring at problematic microaggressions being posted on the forum and I am letting members know that I will call you out if I see it from now on. I will not let mers of color be pushed out of the community because some mers don't know how to keep their mouths shut and not say racist things, or other mers in the community choose to ignore it and let it slide. No more. MN should be just as much as a safe space for mers of color as any other mer and mers shouldn't get on to MN to be confronted with racial slurs.

This needs to be shared everywhere. Thankyou for the truth momo!

[Mermaid Momo]

I went to find the other thing I mentioned about the Japanese because it was different from the one about the bomb, but it seems to have been deleted from the thread. But I do remember that it wasn't subtle at all and basically said all Japanese are bad, horrible people and the cause of everything bad.

[Kishiko]

okay this is technically a bitch but since I'm aware it might start drama, I'll post it here.

My problem? Mernetwork is getting hostile towards mers of color (and I'm not even the only mer of color who thinks this, I've had a lot of mers come to me with their experiences on MN, from a post I made on tumblr a while back and since then it's gone around a few blogs who sometimes message me with reasons why they don't use MN or stay out of the mercommunity)

I've been noticing a LOT of hostility towards poc. (one that comes directly to mind is when a certain member posted "all J*ps are bad and won't change because they are bad people" or something along those lines in the thread about the dolphin slaughter and when I went in and told said member that they can't make blanket statements like that and that also they used a slur, they proceeded to use the slur again in response to me about how the Japanese are apparently scum of the earth) One mer of color directly gave me that post as to why she doesn't get on MN, being that she is Japanese she felt unwelcome by that post and the member's response to people of Japanese descent.

Another post is where a member went on about how immigrants need to go away, how they're all dirty, ruining their country, and how somehow people seeking refuge from war is on the same level as them moving a pet.

I've kept my mouth shut about it all, about how I've been noticing that with new members coming and old yuku members leaving, MN isn't a place that I as a MOC or other MOC want to be. And tbh, I'm tired of just staring at problematic microaggressions being posted on the forum and I am letting members know that I will call you out if I see it from now on. I will not let mers of color be pushed out of the community because some mers don't know how to keep their mouths shut and not say racist things, or other mers in the community choose to ignore it and let it slide. No more. MN should be just as much as a safe space for mers of color as any other mer and mers shouldn't get on to MN to be confronted with racial slurs.

I'm going to say this delicately because I don't want my post to be misunderstood.

I do not agree with the posts your referring to, particularly about Japanese. I have some very good friends in Japan who absolutely adore animals and such.

However, I think it's safe to say 99% of MN also disagrees with them. In saying "Mernetwork is hostile towards people of color" you too are using a blanket statement about everyone on the forum. No community is perfect, however the very very large majority of MN is accepting and loving to all mers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mermaid Lunette]

ok, so when it comes to the immagriant comments we are all talking about the same instances. i actually think there are two people whom are the problem. one is this person whom while complaining about immigrants is also complaining about a wide variaty of other things so since it is not her main complaint people seem to ignore it so far except one person whom full on supports these comments on a number of occasions.

[Starfrit]

The constant ableist remarks make me so angry, as some of my best friends suffer from mental and even a few physical disorders. People think that it is totally alright to set the blame on someone due to their disabilities.

This has been getting to me a lot lately, too— I have a lot of my own mental illnesses to deal with, and seeing comments from people about "oh just take your meds" and "they're obviously just demented" gets really tiring. Especially when it's called out and the backpedaling starts, and about how it ~*totally wasn't meant that way*~

Like, do they not realize that they aren't fooling anyone? Especially when they're here saying "I DON'T DO THAT, I ONLY DID IT LIKE ONCE WHY ARE YOU GUYS GETTING ON MY CASE ABOUT THIS" while at the same time I'm getting stuff popping up on my newsfeed of them making these exact same gross-ass ableist comments all over Facebook.

It's hard to comment in some threads when this stuff pops up because, oh hey look, my mental illnesses aren't welcome here and if I don't like it I should just ~*take my meds*~ and get over it, because despite some people's talk about calling out injustice they really chomp at the bit to defend these weak excuses to parade ableism around. :I

Anyway, I think I just got my own nerve venting about that. Off to bed I go.

[Sabrina the Selkie]

It is a blanket statement, but no one else had said anything. So even if most DO disagree it would not be ridiculous for on to assume that we as a community are effectively and collectively bigoted.

[Sabrina the Selkie]

Simply because no one argued with the statements in question when they came about.

[Mermaid Momo]

This has been getting to me a lot lately, too— I have a lot of my own mental illnesses to deal with, and seeing comments from people about "oh just take your meds" and "they're obviously just demented" gets really tiring. Especially when it's called out and the backpedaling starts, and about how it ~*totally wasn't meant that way*~

Like, do they not realize that they aren't fooling anyone? Especially when they're here saying "I DON'T DO THAT, I ONLY DID IT LIKE ONCE WHY ARE YOU GUYS GETTING ON MY CASE ABOUT THIS" while at the same time I'm getting stuff popping up on my newsfeed of them making these exact same gross-ass ableist comments all over Facebook.

It's hard to comment in some threads when this stuff pops up because, oh hey look, my mental illnesses aren't welcome here and if I don't like it I should just ~*take my meds*~ and get over it, because despite some people's talk about calling out injustice they really chomp at the bit to defend these weak excuses to parade ableism around. :I

Anyway, I think I just got my own nerve venting about that. Off to bed I go.
the back pedalling irks me so much! How hard is it to admit that you were wrong? apologize and ask for ways to educate yourself more on the issue that you were called out for instead of trying to save your own behind?

[SeaGlass Siren]

Simply because no one argued with the statements in question when they came about.
Actually I did.

[Mermaid Momo]

It is a blanket statement, but no one else had said anything. So even if most DO disagree it would not be ridiculous for on to assume that we as a community are effectively and collectively bigoted.
exactly, It's an issue with all of MN because the posts weren't called out, which gives the idea that no one on MN disagrees with what was said, and thus makes people feel unwelcome. When posts start to be called out and problematic things called out on the forums, then I can back up not using a blanket statement but instead say "certain ppl on MN, or just some sections of MN"

But until then, it's an issue that's needed to be looked at by all of MN so all members can understand how just a few posts can make the whole forum and unwelcoming space.

[Sabrina the Selkie]

In which case, you get virtual high-fives.
The point I'm trying to make is that Momo's discomfort is VERY valid, a statement I doubt anyone here will disagree with.

[Sabrina the Selkie]

Agree with Momo there.

[Mermaid Lunette]

I'm going to say this delicately because I don't want my post to be misunderstood.

I do not agree with the posts your referring to, particularly about Japanese. I have some very good friends in Japan who absolutely adore animals and such.

However, I think it's safe to say 99% of MN also disagrees with them. In saying "Mernetwork is hostile towards people of color" you too are using a blanket statement about everyone on the forum. No community is perfect, however the very very large majority of MN is accepting and loving to all mers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i think i understand your over all intention with this comments but when reading it almost comes off as dismissive. like in order to fix the problem it has to be brought to light and policing the conversation with comments similar to "not everyone" is taking away the point which is while maybe not EVERYONE, or even half of the group, the POINT is that enough people are doing it that the discriminated group feels unsafe and unwelcome and that is the problem, that is what needs to be fixed.

saying "not everyone" is usually seen as a way to change focus or the actual issue. so no, not everyone, but even one person being openly discrimnator is a problem that needs to pick, and there are certainly more then 1 person behaving this way.

[Mermaid Momo]

Actually I did.
Yeah, you did (and boy do I love you for that) but other than that, dead silence. (I actually see more posts just straight up ignoring problematic posts as if they weren't there, rather than choosing to see what was posted and confront it, or at least simply say "bruh, not cool.")
The silence could have been for multiple reasons though (the biggest one seeming to be not wanting to start something or not wanting to argue at a brick wall)

[Sabrina the Selkie]

It's like I said earlier about ableist comments. I DO have people who are thusly effected in my family. But it doesn't hit as close to home as the immigration comments. I notice those even when they're extremely subtle. I don't know if I notice all ableist comments. So while I myself am not ableist, I'm part of the problem and I need to reevaluate my position.

[SeaGlass Siren]

To be fair comments like that are sometimes missed as well. Not everyone Checks very single thread. It just so happened it popped up the one time. By the time Iona and I shut them down the issue was pretty much resolved so it was never brought bak up again.

[Theobromine]

I know of (at least) one person who reported the J***s comment and that person got a stern warning from Iona, not sure what happened after that, though. The refugee/immigrant one is on this page of the Bitch It Out thread: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1913-B!TC-IT-OUT!&p=216125#post216125 There were a couple comments in the same vein. She never got called out on it and I don't think anyone reported it at the time; I mentioned it to Iona this weekend and she said she hadn't seen it so I just reported it so she'll know exactly which post was problematic. (FYI, that same person has been pretty consistently rude to everyone who disagrees with her and I finally got sick of it and called her out on it in another thread. After I did that, several different people messaged me to say they were glad I stood up to her because they had been finding her really offensive and/or she was specifically rude to them. I'm just mentioning this for context.)

[SeaGlass Siren]

i think i understand your over all intention with this comments but when reading it almost comes off as dismissive. like in order to fix the problem it has to be brought to light and policing the conversation with comments similar to "not everyone" is taking away the point which is while maybe not EVERYONE, or even half of the group, the POINT is that enough people are doing it that the discriminated group feels unsafe and unwelcome and that is the problem, that is what needs to be fixed.

saying "not everyone" is usually seen as a way to change focus or the actual issue. so no, not everyone, but even one person being openly discrimnator is a problem that needs to pick, and there are certainly more then 1 person behaving this way.
"Not everyone" but "everyone involved".

[Sabrina the Selkie]

And yeah, I'll admit to leaving things lie to avoid confrontation, and it isn't right of me to do so.

[Kishiko]

Simply because no one argued with the statements in question when they came about.

Once again starting out with I don't disagree that these things should not occur.

But then again, just today in the new drama handling discussion thread, most people have pointed out that they do not call out posts or initiate drama where it doesn't involve them or affect them, which is understandable. If every post on here that made someone have hurt feelings or had some sort of wrong thing said in it was called out, this community would be a constant non stop stream of fights and drama (more than it already is) That's all I'm trying to say. Yes there are a few people/posts that should not be occurring here, but if you look at the greatest majority of everything said, the statement that Mernetwork is racist or doesn't tolerate certain people is quite simply not true.

Just want to keep some balance here. I am sorry you feel uncomfortable momo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mermaid Momo]

And yeah, I'll admit to leaving things lie to avoid confrontation, and it isn't right of me to do so.
Don't worry, I've done it too because I didn't want to be known as that one mer who always starts things, but I really regret not saying something on all the instances I've seen because if I would have said something just once, maybe some of the comments wouldn't have happened in the first place, so I'm trying to not care so much about how mean people may perceive me if I call someone out (I mean, I will call them out in a very nice way, I won't just go in shouting haha) and just go ahead and do it because it'll make the community more welcoming to other mers.

[Mermaid Wesley]

I agree. As a community we should make a collective effort to make this a safe, welcoming place. Whether you call out hate speech or silently report it, I think it is everyone's job to keep mernetwork a nice place.

(That is not to say that every member needs to react to every problem, that would be exhausting and stressful I think)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mermaid Mystery]

I know of (at least) one person who reported the J***s comment and that person got a stern warning from Iona, not sure what happened after that, though. The refugee/immigrant one is on this page of the Bitch It Out thread: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1913-B!TC-IT-OUT!&p=216125#post216125 There were a couple comments in the same vein. She never got called out on it and I don't think anyone reported it at the time; I mentioned it to Iona this weekend and she said she hadn't seen it so I just reported it so she'll know exactly which post was problematic. (FYI, that same person has been pretty consistently rude to everyone who disagrees with her and I finally got sick of it and called her out on it in another thread. After I did that, several different people messaged me to say they were glad I stood up to her because they had been finding her really offensive and/or she was specifically rude to them. I'm just mentioning this for context.)

I'm still so happy you called her out because if I were to call her out on that subject it would get a bit ugly. admittedly something I need to work on.

[Mermaid Momo]

(That is not to say that every member needs to react to every problem, that would be exhausting and stressful I think)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yeah everyone doesn't need to react, but at least one "not okay" or a silent report like you said can go a long way, or even just asking them to clarify because this being the internet and not everyone having English as their first language or being proficient in English, some things can get lost in translation.

I'm so glad that we were able to have a civilized conversation about this though

[SeaGlass Siren]

I read the post in the bitch it out thread. Over and over. I've seen it before too and it flew over my head :( mainly because I didn't know what was going on or how to respond.

[Theobromine]

I know I've been guilty of remaining silent and not calling people out over offensive shit because I hate being involved in drama, it causes me massive anxiety, but I'd finally had enough of it and kinda blew my stack :P But I don't regret it. I think I'm going to try to be a little more proactive about that sort of thing now, not to be more involved in drama, but now I just really feel the need to at least try to keep MN a safe place.

And Tieri, that ableist shit about mental health infuriated me too, and I was silently cheering you on. I deal with depression, anxiety, and ADD and I'm not ashamed of taking medication for them to help me stay ME. They're just biochemical imbalances, just like a lot of other types of illnesses and I really wish there wasn't so much stigma STILL attached to them. Sorry for not being more vocal about it at the time :-/

[Dancing Fish]

No community is going to feel welcome to everyone. So we should pick who we want to be most welcoming to. I think most of us here are in agreement that our community should welcome all mers of color, mers with disabilities, and mers of any body type and sexual orientation. This will make anyone who unthinkingly types something problematic uncomfortable, perhaps make them feel unwelcome, when they are called out. But do we want to coddle people who type without thinking, or who are resistant to empathy or apology, at the expense of others? Is it really "drama" to say politely (or perhaps not so politely) that a post is offensive?

Momo, I'm sorry you and others feel unwelcome here. I love your posts. :) I'm sorry my silence helped contribute even in a small way, or if I ever said anything thoughtless. I'm very shy and not good at speaking up but I'll try to be more supportive if I see something like you described. The mental health stuff hits close to home over here too. (Those idiotic "I'm soooo OCD" FB memes are really getting aggravating...)

[SeaGlass Siren]

^ I don't use the memes but I do recall saying that myself. I'm sorry if I offended anyone :(

[Dancing Fish]

Nah... not me anyway. :) It's not a problem here. I think people do try to be more sensitive here honestly. There's just a few who either don't realize or just don't care how they come across.

[AniaR]

Momo has been an active member of mernetwork a long time, so it is likely she's seen more than others. And also as a woman of colour she will recognize hurtful statements more than some of us as we may say dumb shit out if ignorance. I have learned a lot from momo :)

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Madison MerFaerie]

Yikes... I didn't see any of this stuff. I don't read too much of the bitch it out thread, and I intentionally did not ever look at the dolphin slaughter thread because I knew shit was gonna blow up in there because it's such an emotional subject. I didn't expect to see racism or xenophobia...that's absolutely terrible.

[Adalira]

I think i need to speak up for myself here because i can see i am mentioned (even though not by name) by a mer here.
I did speak about the immigrants but i said nothing that was not true.
In my entire post this is all i wrote:

Immigrants are coming in to Holland ten thousands at a time, they get a permit for 3 or 5 years for free! no questions asked. They get food and housing for free no questions asked, 99% don't learn Dutch and are not part of society. They are fighing amongst each other, discriminating against women in Holland etc.
My hubby came here wanting to work here and live with me, build a live with me.

Before that i had another post where i replied to Echidna. She wrote about what is happening in Germany and i wrote about what is happening in Holland right now since the country is upside down.
All i did was share what is hapenning, share the actual facts.
If people need to flee their country to save their lives i am all for helping them out, i truly am, no matter what color they are because i could not care less about someone's color.
But we need to find a better way and a better structure.
We need to be clear with the immigrants on the rules in the country they are going to (wether it be Holland or any other country) and that they can not bring aggression here, be offensive or hurt women in any way and make sure the people who really need the help actually get it.
There is absolutly no controll right now, no checking on who gets in, it is insanity.
Me and many many other people in Holland fear for the ISIS members to come into Holland ad start the beheading here. :-(
We all are starting to fear for our lives because the police or whoever is supposed to check that, does not check who gets into the country and who doesn't.
They don't do a background check once they are here and as many people but also politicians have pointed out, there could be many ISIS members amongst the immigrants planning an attack from within one of the Western European countries.
It is very scary to think of but it is true, there is no controll and no check ups.
I would personally do this:If any immigrants show aggression, start fighting, hurt women, discriminate against the women in the country they are in or anyone else in that country, sit them down and talk to them. Explain that that behaviour is unacceptable and that they will have to tone it down and live by the rules of the country they are in.
If however they continue and are unable to control themselves and are a risk for the society they live in, they have to go back to their own country or go to one of the other countries that take in fugitives.

The thing i posted here that i copied pasted is about how double minded the immigration office is here.
My hubby gets overly checked with every little thing he does (they would do an x ray on him if they could to check even more of him lol) but they do not check the fugitives who come into the country at all, which is very scary.
I feel that either they need to check everyone the same or no one at all.
I understand that when ten thousands fugitives come in at the same time it is hard to check but how about letting our army do that for us?
Put the army near the borders to check to make sure the people who are actually running away in fear of their lives get in and get to a safe place and at the same time make sure the bad guys stay out?
I think that will give a lot of the people some peace of mind.

I am in no way a racist, in my elementary school 95% of the kids were Turkish and Morrocan. They were no fugitives. But their parents (i think mostly fathers) were working immigrants (i hope i used the correct word)
In Holland we needed workers for the fabric industry and men from Turkey (mostly) came over to fill those positions. Then they had their families come over.
Most parents in our elementary school took their kids out of the school as soon as the Turkish kids came in, but my parents did not. They did not care and neither did my brother and I.
We even learned a bit of Turkish from it....it may be only all the cool curse words :p, but still we know a bit of Turkish and i use it still sometimes to break the ice when we meet people who happen to be Turkish, they LOL everytime.
I am still in contact with some of my former elementary school friends

I agree that nothing can become racist on mer network or anywhere else for that matter and anyone (myself included) need to speak up when it happens.
At the same time though i also feel that the truth should be allowed to be spoken.
If anyone gets offended by it, then please let them know directly and talk about it openly and as adults.

[Seraphina Suds]

Momo, I adore you and we've talked community race issues several times. I want you to know that I stand with you on everything you've said. I didn't see the posts you were referencing but I'm upset that they had happened and as usual, you have to be the one to bring it up. I feel like a majority of your posts on the forum are you having to defend yourself or others against hateful remarks x-x

Is there a thread specifically for mers of color? It would be great if there could even be a subforum like the gender and sexuality one. There are some on the forum who are anti lgbt and it's nice to have a safe space of sorts. I think it would be helpful to have that same space for mers of color to share. Maybe it would encourage those who have left to give MerNetwork another try.

Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

Immigrants aren't terrorists. They're fleeing terror

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

What is acceptable in one country isn't acceptable in another. There's a lot of people who don't understand that certain behaviors in their country is rude in another. Doesn't matter what race they are. You could be a white person in Asia and "talking back" would be unacceptable there. Or an Asian budding in line at a North American supermarket.
I can understand your frustration adalira, but on the same token we shouldn't call immigrants fugitives. :S

[Adalira]

In Holland the correct term is fugitives, since they are running for fear of their lives. I thought I translated it correctly, I apologize if that was not the correct English term. Aniar, no one said the immigrants are terrorists. But terrorists could among them trying to get in Western Europe. It is a perfect opportunity for terrorists since no country does check ups. That's why the politicians are trying to change that now, they fear terrorist may be hiding amongst the immigrants trying to get into Western Europe without getting caught. May I ask what the correct term is in English? Immigrants in holland are people moving from one country to the other, by choice normally. The term we use, that I was just told is incorrect, is the term used for people moving in fear of their lives.

[Adalira]

Looked it up myself and I think the correct term English is refugee?

[Mermaid Ciela]

Refugee is one of the common phrases for them, Adalira. To be honest, I think that your fears of terrorists coming along with the refugees is unfounded - these are people paying thousands of dollars by selling everything they own to smugglers who (oftentimes unreliably and rarely safely) bring them to Europe, where they don't have to fear that they'll get texts demanding money or threatening to kill them or their family members. If you want a little bit of perspective, the photographer who runs Humans of New York is traveling around Europe telling refugee stories - they're very eye opening. John Oliver also had a piece about a girl who's wheelchair-bound but wants to be an astronaut and meet the Queen, and learned to speak English by watching "Days of Our Lives." Before dismissing them as a hindrance to your life (and I apologize in advance if that wording is a bit strong), try to walk a mile in their shoes and see what it is they're experiencing.


Sent from the engineering wonder that is my shellphone using Tapatalk

[Adalira]

Did no one read my post earlier how we have to help them but simply do check ups making sure the bad guys don't benefit from others pains? All I ask is for check ups and the same treatment as anyone else. You misbehave? Either start behaving or leave, is that so harsh? There are always 2 sides to every story. It may be just the rotten apples trying to ruin it for all others, how about taking the rotten apples out and make it pleasant for everyone else, refugees as well as people who already live in the country. All we want in the end is to live in peace right? We all have the same goal here. If you see how many terrorist attacks, even small ones there have been I think it is not unfounded at all. Maybe not all attacks are in the world wide news but there is a constant threat of terrorism here in Europe. My parents experienced it over the summer during their holiday. I won't go into detail, all I will say is they were in Sweden and felt sick later of what had happened the pre caution they had to go under there scared them a lot. And this is going on in every country. I think it is only normal that countries want to do check ups now to ensure the safety of everyone in the country, once again both refugees and people from that country to make sure everyone can live in peace.

[SeaGlass Siren]

We got a thing going on in canada where Harper is fear mongering by blaming all Muslims and introducing racist "laws" :/ just because there was one attack in Ottawa where a veteran was killed. Now all of a sudden Harper blames all the Muslims.
There's also already regulations in place here for immigrants to safely pass without worrying about terrorists attacks but now there are new regulations that completely erase the rights of people listed on the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Also if they're misbehaving (actually anyone who is misbehaving), law enforcement should get on that. that's just lazy policework. :\

[Adalira]

We have a politician here that is a racist in my eyes and his political party is growing and growing and from what research centers say he will be the biggest party in holland since holland is fed up with refugees and their behavior, the rotten apples I mean not all refugees. It is scary to even think what will happen when that guy will become the leader! I want to share some background of myself to explain why I am upset with the rotten apple refugees. Mermaid Ciela said that I should walk a mile in their shoes to see what it feels like. Unfortunately you don't know me because our family has lived through this. And I am very sad to say over 100 family members were gassed, burned alive in ovens and murdered in other cruel ways in the Second World War simply for being born a certain way. My grandfather was the only survivor of his family. He fled Amsterdam and hid at my grandmothers farm where they then fell in love. They fought in the resistance but fled several times for their lives, sleeping in barns I. The hay or anywhere else that was safe. My grandmother took in American, Canadian and English parachutist as well and hid them on her farm in the beginning. They had nothing. No food to feed all with so she went into the forest and picked stingy nettles to make soup with and anything else to stay alive and keep the soldiers alive. I still feel their pain every single day. I can not watch a war movie without feeling sick. When I saw The Boy In The Striped Pyama I literally almost had an heart attack. By the time I could breath again I ran for the toilet and started gagging. I am 32 and have been threatened with my life for being born looking Jewish since I was about 17. My brother and I were threatened for no reason, we booked a computer in a library for an hour and after waiting 10 minutes kindly asked if we could use it since 50 minutes were gone. 2 Palestinians ( we found out later they were Palestinians because I can't tell when I look at someone where they are from) who were using it asked if we were Jewish because they would kill us, shove a pen up our behinds ( they were holding one) and slid our throats ( even made the gesture) all I thought was" please let my necklace not be visible, please please!" I wore a star a David for a while to honor my family but can not wear it anymore. Luckily my necklace was not visible ( hiding behind a shirt) and a big man who worked at the library saw something was up and escorted them out while we stood there frozen. I am not religious at all, I don't do anything " Jewish" in my life I just happen to have my grandfathers nose which apparently gives it away. I have been threatened since then, even was not served in a shoarma restaurant where I was with my family. We came there all the time and one day there was a Palestinian demonstration near the restaurant and we were not served until my dad asked for it and they reluctantly did. The restaurant was dead quite and they kept looking at us angry. We never went back after that after having been customers for years. So I know how discrimination feels, how running for your life feels. Even though I was not there in the Second World War, I feel pain still every single day. What upsets me is that the rotten apples amongst the refugees throw away the food they get, complain about bad wifi and the little money they get when I think" why not be simply happy to have made it out alive, have a roof over your head and food in the table in a country far away from the danger" I simply wish my family were that lucky back then to have what the refugees have now. I understand a lot have lost family members and the travel to Europe was hard, isn't that all the more reason to be thankful to have made it? Some even refused the housing they were getting last week and said they wanted something better. I understand transitioning to another culture and country is hard, I don't want them to literally thank us but at least just be thankful to be here and have your basic needs taken care of for free and not toss out food, complain about wifi and other stupid luxury things. A bit of perspective would be nice

[SeaGlass Siren]

Both my parents are immigrants. mother left VN for financial reasons, but my father left to avoid the vietnam war so he was a refugee. back then he didn't have luxuries and accepted anything. my dad even wore a woman's fur jacket during the cold winter months when he started high school here (regardless of being bullied for it). i totally get what you mean by being thankful vs being spoiled rotten. i'm sorry about all the bad apples that are making the situation worse. some don't understand how lucky they are, but there are those that do. the rest of my family wants to come here but think "money falls from the sky" and don't understand the concept of working to earn your keep ... they literally think it's 24/7 fun here :\

[Adalira]

Thank you for sharing that seaglass! I want to applaud your father, he must be a very determined man, for taking everything to make his life possible. I love that. I am sorry to hear about your family not understanding that you work for a living, that really sucks. They must know you have jobs right? What is it that makes them think it is easy in Canada do you think? Or is it simply the thought of a far away country that seems luxurious? Because I think that happens more than you think. I totally different example is actors and musicians from holland going to America " to become famous" because it seems to them everyone can become famous there. 99% comes back to holland with a burst bubble and shattered dream. Myself, I can not stand waste of food and water in any way. I get upset when I waste food at home or when my hubby does. I heard of a new law in France that supermarkets who throw good away get huge fines now, can anyone confirm this? Because I feel they should do this in every country every where! Every day people starve to death all over the world, in even the countries like America and also Western Europe there is so much poverty where people can barely afford food. It would be great if supermarkets could donate their left over food/almost expired for those people.

[SeaGlass Siren]

They must know you have jobs right? What is it that makes them think it is easy in Canada do you think? Or is it simply the thought of a far away country that seems luxurious? Because I think that happens more than you think.

they know we have jobs yes.. but they think companies like to shower us with money. mainly because 1 Canadian Dollar equals 17220.98 Vietnamese Dong. which is kinda a lot of money to them :|

That and they (well my family in particular, there's plenty of vietnamese people who are wealthier than us and still reside in vietnam) see pictures of adequately sized houses, and, compared to the homes they live in, it's a huge difference. i can't speak for other people, but the few vietnamese friends i've talked to as well have the same issues that i do. They come here to visit using the money we give them to visit us, and they come with high expectations. and once they see it's not all that, they go home :\

[PhaylennMurúch]

When I read Adalira's (and Echidnas) posts I don't see hate, honestly I see a whole lot of fear. Yes the Syrian refugee crisis is huge, yes it would be great if they could be helped equally, but things are NOT equal. Places like Holland, Germany and Lebanon are expected to take in as many people as they can while other members of the EU are allowed to set strict limits, there are countries that have locked the hell down and aren't allowing ANYONE in right now. Even across the ocean we in the US have decided to only take in 1,500 refugees.

Lebanon a population of 4.5 million people living in 4,035.5 square miles. They have taken in officially 1 million refugees, with an estimated extra million people entering that country illegally. That's an extra 2 million, roughly half of their population.
Germany can feasibly take in 500,000 refugees each fiscal year, recently they've been taking in nearly double that in reported (legal) refugees. There is only so much a country's economic infrastructure can take.
USA a population of 318.9 million people living in 3.806 million square miles, taking in 1,500 Syrian refugees.
Let that sink in for a second. The united states is accepting less refugees than the current population of the High school up the road from me.


There is just no space and it's a FACT that when people are crowded into spaces that don't exactly fit there is tension and an increase in violence.
Adalira's fears of this super racist political party are founded in recorded history. What happened the LAST time a country was in the toilet due to events out of its control and a leader arose and gave the people someone to blame?


Let us not forget that there are TWO groups of people effected in a refugee crisis and BOTH groups need to be treated with compassion. Everyone always seems to forget that refugees aren't coming into empty countries, there are people already there often already struggling to get by.

[Mermaid Momo]

Looked it up myself and I think the correct term English is refugee?
yep in english a fugitive is someone running and hiding from the law, or someone wanted for crimes who are in hiding and a refugee is someone who is running from terror or someone seeking refuge from something dangerous to them.

I think I mentioned that one of the hardest parts about MN is that not everyone speaks english as their first language and so a lot can get lost in translation especially with how complicated the English language is with certain undertones to certain words that may not exist in other languages. I have to go to class now, but I'll comment a bit more once I come back.

[AniaR]

Some topics and debates just don't need to be on a mermaid forum

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

yeah we're digressing. adalira needed to explain herself and i wanted to sound off as well.
but honestly i'm glad this happened so that at least everyone can try to understand each other on the forum without going at each other's throats.

[AniaR]

I still find the posts not so great and more opinion based than anything. ( I never saw the originals I never reported) if you replaced immigrants or refugees with blacks or gays or any other marginalized group, you can really see how some of the comments aren't OK.

Like I said, there's just no reason for some of the stuff that's on here to be on here. I find peoples need to be social too often trumps the fact this is supposed to be a mermaid forum. We have so many off topic areas I think it is nuts and a lot of drama comes from it

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

clearly they were not OK, but we pointed it out and she corrected herself. like momo said "I mentioned that one of the hardest parts about MN is that not everyone speaks english as their first language and so a lot can get lost in translation especially with how complicated the English language is with certain undertones to certain words that may not exist in other languages."
so i was trying to understand adalira and clear shit up.
i agree there's no need for it here but here it is now. we may as well try to solve it instead of sweeping it under the carpet. (if not we can take it to PM)

edit: and by we i mean adalira and I

[Adalira]

I am in the van on our way home from a show so forgive me when I have a lot of typos. I am sorry you feel that way Aniar, unfortunately you claiming it is only opinion based, shows you do not live in Europe and don't know a lot on the matter. I would also like to remind you that nor me nor Echidna made this a topic. I simply wrote a long rant in bitch it out which had 3 lines about how two faced the immigration office is and how it pisses me off, before that I merely shared what is going on here and how holland is upside down. I am not sure but if I remember correctly Momo was the one who wrote about it here ( please forgive me Momo if I am mistaken here) after which it turned into a topic (she shared concerns from other topics as well I believe) and I felt I should have the chance to explain myself. I am sad to report the radio just told us that a town in holland made a road block to prevent new busses with refugees to get in. They were promised no more refugees and now they wanted to bring 700 more. The busses had to turn around, the people would not move, and go elsewhere then the people from that town harrassed a politician and his car. Somewhere else there was big debate tonight as well where people spoke up saying they've had enough, begging to them to stop bringing in refugees. Things are getting out of hand fast. I love that mermetwork has room for both mer related topics and none mer related topics. I have felt at home here and felt I could talk about Anything, really open up about things I dont talk about a lot normally, like how to deal with my family and I have gotten great advice which enriched my life so much and made me a stronger person. Phaylennmuruch, pearliemae, Echidna, Seaglassiren and many others (sorry if I did not mention you here) are mers I cherish for their honesty, help, advice and kind words. There are times I am a lot in the making a tail section because I love watching others making their dream come true other times like now when life is tough for me I get so much comfort from being able to bitch stuff out. Mermetwork is not a tiny forum with only a few topics. Maybe it is better that mers who do not like off topic talk don't go there as much? Not saying you have to but it could be an idea. There are certain topics I don't relate to either and don't feel for much so I simply don't go there. I love mernetwork and would not change a thing myself

[Echidna]

When I read Adalira's (and Echidnas) posts I don't see hate, honestly I see a whole lot of fear. Yes the Syrian refugee crisis is huge, yes it would be great if they could be helped equally, but things are NOT equal. Places like Holland, Germany and Lebanon are expected to take in as many people as they can while other members of the EU are allowed to set strict limits, there are countries that have locked the hell down and aren't allowing ANYONE in right now. Even across the ocean we in the US have decided to only take in 1,500 refugees.


thank you, finally someone who gets it.
It's not even the number or the crowded space, it is that the majority of new arrivals are not fleeing from any countries where there is war.
They come from so-called "safe countries", and they mostly wish to stay in Germany and Sweden, because (imagine that) those are the places where they will get the most money.

I don't expect you to believe it unless you've seen with your own eyes how those people behave.
Frankly, it is flabbergasting, and very frightening.
Almost everyone I know who lives here has been at least threatened, if not harmed already.

Consider also that rich countries with loads more space than European countries (Saudi-Arabia, for example) are taking in exactly 0 (zero) of their muslim brethren.
Those that really are refugees from war countries and persecuted for their faith or identity, complain bitterly once they're here because the very same people they were fleeing from are now here and terrorizing them further.


Does this need to be a discussion on MN?
No, not really, and it wasn't.
It was a brief exchange in the Bitch thread.

If you're going to complain about it in a thread where some people run their own special hate club against other members, you shouldn't be surprised said members come here to clarify, especially if you're throwing around gossip and misquoting (or even outright making things up to be even more dramatic).

[Mermaid Momo]

The original topic has strayed from my original post about how moc feel like the forum is not a place safe for them, to people some how shouting "NOT ALL MERS" which is really dismissive and not at ALL helping. Have you said something that can be read as offensive ? okay good, you've realized you're offensive now instead of getting up in arms about it, apologize, and offer to learn from your mistakes. Sure MN isn't the place to talk about immigration politics, but that's not what my original post was about, my original post was about hostile and offensive posts made on the forum regarding people of color that were isolating to mers of color.

And honestly, I don't know whether your response about making something more dramatic was to my original post in regards to the immigrant comments or to other posts here in the thread, but the comment is EXTREMELY dismissive! If someone tells you that something is going on that makes a community unwelcome to a group of people, do you think telling them they're being dramatic is the way to go about it? hint: no, it isn't, you're just showing how correct my original post was about issues being swept aside or under the rug. TBH, I can see why so many mers of color choose to stay away from MN, I can see why there was a need for special places just for mers of color to exist, but I don't want it that way, I want all the mers of color who've come to me to be able to find their place among the larger mercommunity rather than sitting in our shallow pool because a fish can only swim circles for so long.

As for the remarks about fear: trust me, poc fear you more than you fear us. And just because you fear something doesn't make it okay to go damning that thing. I fear dogs, but I won't go around telling everyone how evil and untrustworthy they are. People fear things because they don't understand them, and you won't get over that fear if you choose to lock yourself away from what you're afraid of instead of going to study it. Stop just being afraid and try to learn something about these people. Because no doubt, because of this fear people have of refugees, black people, gay people, etc, these marginalized groups suffer more than the group of those afraid of them.

[AniaR]

clearly they were not OK, but we pointed it out and she corrected herself. like momo said "I mentioned that one of the hardest parts about MN is that not everyone speaks english as their first language and so a lot can get lost in translation especially with how complicated the English language is with certain undertones to certain words that may not exist in other languages."
so i was trying to understand adalira and clear shit up.
i agree there's no need for it here but here it is now. we may as well try to solve it instead of sweeping it under the carpet. (if not we can take it to PM)

edit: and by we i mean adalira and I
Yeah I'm not directing the statement at you. I'm speaking generally to everyone.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

thank you, finally someone who gets it.
It's not even the number or the crowded space, it is that the majority of new arrivals are not fleeing from any countries where there is war.
They come from so-called "safe countries", and they mostly wish to stay in Germany and Sweden, because (imagine that) those are the places where they will get the most money.

I don't expect you to believe it unless you've seen with your own eyes how those people behave.
Frankly, it is flabbergasting, and very frightening.
Almost everyone I know who lives here has been at least threatened, if not harmed already.

Consider also that rich countries with loads more space than European countries (Saudi-Arabia, for example) are taking in exactly 0 (zero) of their muslim brethren.
Those that really are refugees from war countries and persecuted for their faith or identity, complain bitterly once they're here because the very same people they were fleeing from are now here and terrorizing them further.


Does this need to be a discussion on MN?
No, not really, and it wasn't.
It was a brief exchange in the Bitch thread.

If you're going to complain about it in a thread where some people run their own special hate club against other members, you shouldn't be surprised said members come here to clarify, especially if you're throwing around gossip and misquoting (or even outright making things up to be even more dramatic).
Their own special hate club? Really????

Is anyone else totally exhausted with this? Lol


Momo, thank you for all your excellent points. I am sorry they so often fall on deaf ears or blind eyes. Keep being awesome. You have taught me a lot by sharing your perspective. Believe it or not it has effected how I choose to run my company!

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

Yeah I'm not directing the statement at you. I'm speaking generally to everyone.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

ok (y)

[Mermaid Momo]

It saddens me to see how just by bringing up an issue that doesn't have to do with sexuality or tails but is still very relevant to our small community that I seem to have shaken up the water quite a lot. That was not my intentions. My intention was to try and open the community's eyes to small things that they may or may not be aware they're posting that are alienating groups of people who dream of becoming a part of the community but feel that the community will not welcome them.

My post was not an attack on anyone (but you know, if the shoe fits and all) and should not be taken as me condemning the community, but to show that the community is alienating and isolating a group and making a group of people uncomfortable and it shouldn't be. MN should be a place that everyone can enjoy.

I am aware things get lost in translation as I said before, and I am trying to post the most respectful and knowledgeable replies to the concerns of others regarding it, but the water is boiling a bit too much, sure it's good to get some chatter about these issues, but mers coming at other mer's throats? really? If you would like to know how to be more sensitive to people of color and issues on mers of color specifically in relation to mermaiding, feel free to PM me or if you think it'll be important for other mers to read the answer to it, just post it in this thread but I feel a bit bad for clogging up MN.

[Mermaid Momo]

Their own special hate club? Really????

Is anyone else totally exhausted with this? Lol


Momo, thank you for all your excellent points. I am sorry they so often fall on deaf ears or blind eyes. Keep being awesome. You have taught me a lot by sharing your perspective. Believe it or not it has effected how I choose to run my company!

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

Thank you Raina, all I want to do is make sure everyone is welcome in the community and that no one feels alienated just because they happen to be of a certain race, ethnicity, etc.

[AniaR]

just post it in this thread but I feel a bit bad for clogging up MN.

I don't think you're the one doing that ;)

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

boiling too much i can agree with. :P i'm sending you a PM!

[Theobromine]

Their own special hate club? Really????

Is anyone else totally exhausted with this? Lol


Momo, thank you for all your excellent points. I am sorry they so often fall on deaf ears or blind eyes. Keep being awesome. You have taught me a lot by sharing your perspective. Believe it or not it has effected how I choose to run my company!

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

Yes. :eye twitch: Pepole airing legitimate grievances about serial rudeness and dismissiveness does not a hate club make.

Momo, I also want to thank you for speaking up. Racial microaggressions can be so insidious BECAUSE they tend to be so often overlooked. I know you've opened my eyes some more already. If I've ever accidentally said anything insensitive, I sincerely apologize, and I do hope that someone would take the time to point it out to me if I ever did.

[Sabrina the Selkie]

Yup. Refugee is the term. Just try to understand.
The people who fled to Holland are terrified. Most of them aren't terrorists. I get your concerns about safety, but Dutch men and women are just as likely the culprits of rape and terror. ISIS has managed to get plenty of people from outside of the middle east on their side. *shudders* National/Regional origin and a predisposition to terror attacks are not mutually exclusive.

I do understand frustration with immigration policy - I'm of the opinion that my country's immigration policy killed a family friend of mine. She was a lesbian, so her marriage based green card was on extremely shaky ground and, like with your husband, a paperwork misfile meant she practically had to go into hiding. By the time the problem was resolved and she could resume things like doctors appointments, her body had been overrun with cancer.

[Sabrina the Selkie]

Gah. Sorry. People responded. I was responding to Adalira's post a few pages back.

[AniaR]

I don't think the drama thread or the bitch thread are the places to debate as giant a topic as refugees and immigrants. Like I said, I think there are some things that just *don't* need to be here. It's a mermaid forum. Sometimes we gotta self regulate and save some discussions for our friends, fb, and other forums. Especially if we know the topic isnt really relevant and will cause confusion/arguments.

Now, on the topic of microagressions and mers of colour not feeling welcome here; I agree with everything Momo says and she says it far more eloquently than I ever could. And honestly, we were just talking about people speaking up about this stuff, now someone is, and too many are refusing to acknowledge her points and that's upsetting to me and I think contributing to the culture of people not feeling welcome here.

Personally, I'm kinda over the bitch it out thread. It was started for more light hearted things a super long time ago but it has evolved into a place where people air dirty laundry, throw shade at other mers, and passive aggressively try to deal with community issues. I see a lot of drama come out of that thread that honestly; just doesn't need to happen. Also, stuff comes up on google people. I'm not sure people realize that if you have your mermaid name as your username on mernetwork, anytime anyone googles your mermaid name your posts come up here! I think it's one thing for people to see posts attached to topics like tail making etc but some of the stuff in the bitch it out thread just goes a bit crazy. The drama thread is a members only thread so it doesnt get indexed as easily. I don't see much positive coming out of the bitch it out thread. People have FB statuses and blogs to complain in, why do we need a space on mernetwork to complain especially if it's causing so many problems these days? Just my two cents.

I really feel like it might be time to take a hard long look at the mernetwork rules. Maybe define things a bit better. I feel like some people always manage to be super horrible to others but skirt any kind of consequence. I know I used to be one of those people. (but contrary to popular belief, I get consequences!) I get frustrated sometimes because I see certain members say certain things, and I know for a fact if I said it word for word, people would demand I be suspended. Like I feel like we need to do away with most call out threads. I think if something is done on a mass scale publicly eg this company did X, this mermaid made this public post on their fan page about Y, that yeah we gotta be able to talk about those things, but I feel like if you got an issue with someone on here you need to deal with it instead of running to the bitch it out thread and hinting at them or name dropping them because OF COURSE that's gonna cause problems. (and I know I am guilty of this too. I still think it should be a rule and I'll try obviously to stop doing it) There's just so many little things we got going on here in mernetwork, bad habits if you will, that honestly only EVER lead to drama and do nothing to help mermaids or the community you know?

Maybe something to think about. Always remember you can report posts! The ! in the triangle under each post.

[Dancing Fish]

Hate club, Echidna? *headdesk* So you have decided this discussion is a conspiracy to involve you in drama (your words, aquarium thread) and thus it's OK if we are actually hurt or offended by something you said?

I did try to say something to you directly the other day, but you ignored me. (Granted it was a pretty heated exchange; I didn't take it personally). I don't hate you at all, but honestly at this point I really don't see you showing empathy. You might be the kindest, sweetest person in the world--aren't you at least a little concerned that you're not coming across that way here? I thought Raina gave you some really good advice. I'm sorry you've decided to dismiss that advice (that's how I read the "never mind" edit) because folks who feel frustrated and dismissed came here and griped about it, and I'm sorry for that. It's ugly to find out you're being discussed behind your back. But in my case being direct didn't work, either!

communication is a two-way street. If people are constantly misunderstanding or misinterpreting you, perhaps there are changes you can make in the manner you present yourself.

[Mermaid Kelda]

Thought I responded to this but apparently I managed to delete my post, lol.
I couldn't agree with Raina more here. In my short time on the forum I've watched it go from a tail-making positivity powerhouse to mostly drama bubble stuff and it's really sad because I know that most people here aren't like that but they get drowned out by the hate. I honestly don't see the need for non-mer related topics at all.

[SeaGlass Siren]

^This was a thing a year ago as well. you (echidna) and i had arguments about nearly everything because we did misunderstand each other. we communicate quite well now, but you are quite blunt and sometimes dismissive.

[AniaR]

I honestly don't see the need for non-mer related topics at all.

I think the odd relatable one is fine but we kinda have loads of stuff that is off topic and I find some people here ONLY ever post is non mermaid stuff so I am curious too why they're on a mermaid forum, you know? I mean we've got parenting threads on here and people got all angry. I think that is too much.

[Adalira]

I will speak for myself here but try to explain why i think mers (like me) enjoy the off topic part as well.
When you are a mermaid you are considered an odd ball.
Having a tail hanging at your house because you want to be able to swim like a mermaid, is not something most people will look at as something normal.
Most of us have had to deal with family and friends finding it weird (have had my share of raised eyebrows), being unsuportive and not understanding why we love being mers.
And if you consider or try to make a living out of it......don't even get me started.
When i found out about this forum i was thrilled not only to learn from other mers, see their tails etc but i felt they may be able to relate to what i had been through with not getting any understanding for what i love, maybe be able to get advice on how to deal with it.
I quickly found out they did understand and that many mers have gone through and are still going through the same thing.
It is only natural that you want to talk to like minded people to share your passion and in my opinion it is only naturel that when you feel accepted and understood you start sharing more and more about what you feel.
I feel that if there are mers who enjoy the off topic stuff as well as the on topic stuff why not keep it? Since it is a seperate section on the forum, the mers who don't like off topic stuff simply don't have to go there.
And what does it matter wether or not a mer posts more often in the off topic stuff? Does that make her less of a mer? Not suitable enough for the forum? Maybe it feels like they do not like mer related things enough to be on the forum but that is making an assumption, they may be reading a lot of mer related stuff but not commenting.
At the moment i post more in the off topic stuff while in the beginning it was the other way around and even though i read in the on topic stuff i don't always post there.
I am not a parent myself, unless you call having a dog being a parent ;-), but i do not mind mer parents wanting to talk and share things. I have not been on the parenting thread myself since like i said i am not a parent and don't feel i can contribute there not having parenting experience other then having parents myself.
What i am trying to say is that like minded mers who want to talk about their lives in every aspect, in my opinion, should be able to.

[Mermaid Kelda]

There's no option to "subscribe" to a thread to NOT see it in your new posts list, so those sections can't just be ignored. But the issue isn't off-topic discussions themselves, it's that they often outnumber on-topic discussions. It's coming up now because they also tend to start lots of drama.

I mean if you want to talk to like-minded mers you can do that on Facebook, on pod pages etc. It stops the forum from getting super cluttered. IMO if people want to talk about parenting with other mermaids specifically, then the best idea is to make a facebook group about it.

[Adalira]

To me that sounds harsh and hurtful.
It is almost as if you would be saying that you want mers to be part of the community but not to talk about their personal lives and keep all that to yourself.
I would be hurt personally and it feels like you are limiting people.
My mernetwork page may work differently from yours, i am not sure. Because when i go to mernetwork the first thing i see is the different sections on the forum i can go to and what latest posts where replied to in those sections. i don;t see actual posts or anything.
I can simply choose to which section i can go.
So if i don't want to go to non mer talk certain days i go to:
Making Tails & Accessories (http://mernetwork.com/index/forumdisplay.php?26-Making-Tails-amp-Accessories)
Or
Swimming in Tails (http://mernetwork.com/index/forumdisplay.php?33-Swimming-in-Tails)
Or any other mer related section.
I click on those and i don't see any of the non mer related talk.
Is the first page of the forum different for some countries?

[Mer-Crazy]

I agree with Raina and Kelda. It's kind of an issue I've had before (and an issue I'm not saying I haven't added to) I, and I'm sure many others, come to the network for mermaid stuff. The other stuff is nice, but it's not the 'everything network' and the thing that people join this forum expecting is mermaid related topics. There are plenty of other places that are made specifically for you to talk about that stuff. Wanna talk about environmentalism and conservation? There's a forum for that. Parenting? There's a forum and many other forms of media for that. Cosplay, yep, forum for that. Personal issues? There are places for that too.

Honestly I'd be fine if the network brought in a rule restricting posts to mermaid related stuff.

[Mermaid Kelda]

To me that sounds harsh and hurtful.
It is almost as if you would be saying that you want mers to be part of the community but not to talk about their personal lives and keep all that to yourself.
I would be hurt personally and it feels like you are limiting people.
I don't mean to sound harsh, sorry. I typed that on my phone and when I do that I tend to write shorter sentences and am more blunt.

Like I said, I don't have an issue with the posts themselves it's just how much of it there is lately, and a bunch of it doesn't need to be on a forum about mermaids, you know? The way I see it, forums are a great tool for resources and tutorials and Q&As because they're permanent and organised and threads can still be useful long after they're posted. Whereas a post like "which dress should I wear to my cousin's wedding, A or B?" is useless after the question has been answered and could just as easily be asked on Facebook or even in the chat box, where the messages aren't indexed and archived and slip away after they stop being useful. Mernetwork doesn't delete posts as far as I know, which means everything that's ever been posted, helpful or not, is kept.

I'm not saying "don't ever post anything unless it's related to mermaids". I don't think that, and I'm not an admin so it's not my place to tell people what to do anyway. We're a community here, and communities like to chat. I don't really know where to draw the line, I'm just sharing how I feel about it. I don't mean to invalidate your opinion on it.


My mernetwork page may work differently from yours, i am not sure. Because when i go to mernetwork the first thing i see is the different sections on the forum i can go to and what latest posts where replied to in those sections. i don;t see actual posts or anything.
I can simply choose to which section i can go.
The forum doesn't look different to different people, I just browse differently from you. I use the "New Posts" link on the front page. It gives a list of all the posts that you haven't read yet, so you never miss anything. I find it easier and simpler than clicking through to each sub-forum.

[Adalira]

No worries Kelda i am not offended or frustrated or anything.
I feel as though we are having a very nice and healthy discussion here :)
I personally would not want to limit the forum though.
Although you could say that only an x amount of new off topic threads can be started each month, do you think that would help? It may limit the new topics that are started, i don't know.
If for instance the off topic was removed....where would youd draw the line?
If someone writes a post mer related and then writes personal issues at the bottom, what do you do next?
Tell them to keep that to themselves? Censor that mer?
For me the forum is perfect the way it is. It is great how like minded mers, people with a passion for mermaids and everything related can come to talk about it but also have a chance to talk about other things with the same like minded people.
If you want to ban anything non mer related you keep everything very superficial, you limit yourself to not getting to know the other mers, they will not feel completely at home/fitting in because how can you be yourself when you can not share about yourself unless it is mer related when we are all so much more than just mers who love everything mermaid.
I personally love getting to know other people, especially mers, getting to know them on every level, also the personal non mer related levels which are such a big part of every mer as well.
And since non mer related is in a seperate section i don't see an issue.
I can see how using the new post method may be both helpful and frustrating if you don't like the off topic things.
Maybe that could be changed on the page where you could choose to only see mer related new posts, but maybe that is way too detailed of a process to do. I would not know since i don't know much on how websites work and run.
Maybe it is an idea that mods start a thread where we all can vote and see what mers think about the topic.

[Mermaid Kelda]

I get what you mean about wanting to get to know everyone. I know I sometimes feel like I don't know about a lot of stuff or know some mers well as I could because lots happens on facebook where I'm not FB friends with most people. But I also feel like a lot of stuff that is posted here belongs on FB even just because of the drama it starts.

I think a discussion in its own thread would be a good idea, if rules on posting is something the admins want to consider.

[AniaR]

Harsh? Hurtful?? Really??? Honestly that just sounds entitled to me.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[saborigakusei]

Hi, new mer here! ^^
I've only been active on the forum a few months here, so just in case anyone was wondering how the thread comes across to new folk...

I didn't mind the drama too much.. I'll admit at times it was a bit entertaining haha. But now when I log in the ONLY things I see are the drama thread and b*tch it out. And politics. I hate politics. xD

Obviously you have to have a balance. I don't think mernetwork would really be a community if it were strictly mer related topics. It would just be a reference site. Which isn't a bad thing, but the main draw of this site for me, as well as many others I'm sure, is being able to finally find other people who understand you and to whom you can speak freely about your similar hobbies and interests. And of course mers want to speak to other mers about un-mer-related things - such as Momo's excellent corset thread, which isn't strictly mer-related but is specifically for mers who like corsets! So I do agree in that respect.

THAT SAID. There's entirely too much negativity for my taste. During my brief time here on mernetwork I've developed the sense that this is NOT a place for me to make friends who understand my love for swimming and tail swimming, but a place I can come for reference and info if I need it so long as I KEEP MY HEAD DOWN for fear of offending someone with even the most well-intended posts. For the most part, I don't feel I can have any input here without starting drama or annoying people. I understand that plenty of active members have been here far longer than I and have a better understanding of the community and what goes on, but I don't think that should interfere with new members feeling welcome and included. Obviously there's going to be drama. I'm not a bleeding heart who thinks that everyone should always get along. I'm just saying that I don't experience remotely this much drama in any other fandom/online community that I'm in, and I just want to make some friends and it's hard to do that while dodging constant mud-slinging. xD

Thanks for hearing me out.

[Sabrina the Selkie]

And I think you have a summation of the situation in a nutshell, Saborigakusei.

[RastaMer]

Hi, new mer here! ^^
I've only been active on the forum a few months here, so just in case anyone was wondering how the thread comes across to new folk...

I didn't mind the drama too much.. I'll admit at times it was a bit entertaining haha. But now when I log in the ONLY things I see are the drama thread and b*tch it out. And politics. I hate politics. xD

Obviously you have to have a balance. I don't think mernetwork would really be a community if it were strictly mer related topics. It would just be a reference site. Which isn't a bad thing, but the main draw of this site for me, as well as many others I'm sure, is being able to finally find other people who understand you and to whom you can speak freely about your similar hobbies and interests. And of course mers want to speak to other mers about un-mer-related things - such as Momo's excellent corset thread, which isn't strictly mer-related but is specifically for mers who like corsets! So I do agree in that respect.

THAT SAID. There's entirely too much negativity for my taste. During my brief time here on mernetwork I've developed the sense that this is NOT a place for me to make friends who understand my love for swimming and tail swimming, but a place I can come for reference and info if I need it so long as I KEEP MY HEAD DOWN for fear of offending someone with even the most well-intended posts. For the most part, I don't feel I can have any input here without starting drama or annoying people. I understand that plenty of active members have been here far longer than I and have a better understanding of the community and what goes on, but I don't think that should interfere with new members feeling welcome and included. Obviously there's going to be drama. I'm not a bleeding heart who thinks that everyone should always get along. I'm just saying that I don't experience remotely this much drama in any other fandom/online community that I'm in, and I just want to make some friends and it's hard to do that while dodging constant mud-slinging. xD

Thanks for hearing me out.

I agree with you, saborigakusei.I believe the community has become more and more drama driven. It's frustrating because I joined this forum in hopes of discussing interesting topics with people who share a passion for mermaids and the ocean and the topics that get the most attention are the ones that include some sort of drama. It has really put me off and makes the mermaid community look bad to outsiders or prospective members. This negative energy is likely hindering the growth of the community as it does any society.

[MermaidShannon]

Ok look usually I'm the one being ban hammered for acting silly but you all need to realize when it's gotten out of control and change the flipping subject. Are these important issues yes. Did we bring it to everyone's attention yes. I had no idea this was going on and will be more attentive to report racial slurs.

The issue has been brought to the forefront. Don't be a racist ahole. But please let's regroup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mermaid Kelda]

Aren't we talking about making sure it doesn't keep getting out of control?

[MermaidShannon]

Aren't we talking about making sure it doesn't keep getting out of control?

To be honest I got frustrated about 6 posts up so it's possible the tide changed. My bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saborigakusei]

Sabrina and RastaMer, thank you. :3

Honestly I wasn't even going to make that post for fear of repercussions, haha. But I felt it might be worth it to provide some perspective from someone newer to the forum.

I came here to become a part of the community, and I haven't lost hope yet! ^^

[Mermaid Kelda]

Saborigakusei your perspective was super worth it! I think we tend to lose sight of how the community comes across to newer mers who don't necessarily feel like they've cemented their place in the community.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Late reply: saborigakusei summed up everything quite nicely.

[Ashe]

Hi, new mer here! ^^
I've only been active on the forum a few months here, so just in case anyone was wondering how the thread comes across to new folk...

I didn't mind the drama too much.. I'll admit at times it was a bit entertaining haha. But now when I log in the ONLY things I see are the drama thread and b*tch it out. And politics. I hate politics. xD

Obviously you have to have a balance. I don't think mernetwork would really be a community if it were strictly mer related topics. It would just be a reference site. Which isn't a bad thing, but the main draw of this site for me, as well as many others I'm sure, is being able to finally find other people who understand you and to whom you can speak freely about your similar hobbies and interests. And of course mers want to speak to other mers about un-mer-related things - such as Momo's excellent corset thread, which isn't strictly mer-related but is specifically for mers who like corsets! So I do agree in that respect.

THAT SAID. There's entirely too much negativity for my taste. During my brief time here on mernetwork I've developed the sense that this is NOT a place for me to make friends who understand my love for swimming and tail swimming, but a place I can come for reference and info if I need it so long as I KEEP MY HEAD DOWN for fear of offending someone with even the most well-intended posts. For the most part, I don't feel I can have any input here without starting drama or annoying people. I understand that plenty of active members have been here far longer than I and have a better understanding of the community and what goes on, but I don't think that should interfere with new members feeling welcome and included. Obviously there's going to be drama. I'm not a bleeding heart who thinks that everyone should always get along. I'm just saying that I don't experience remotely this much drama in any other fandom/online community that I'm in, and I just want to make some friends and it's hard to do that while dodging constant mud-slinging. xD

Thanks for hearing me out.

Saboriogakusai, I just wanted to thank you for your words. Over the years many attempts have been made to say 'Hey, this is getting out of hand! Think about how the new members are taking this!', but I think hearing it from a real (and might I add civilized) new member may shed some light on a subject that is usually ignored.
Take it from a mer who has seen the days of Mer.yuku - The community is such an amazing place with amazing people, and I have made so many connections and friendships. However, every now and then the waters can get a little heated. It's not fun, sometimes we lose people, but with all of the diverse people here with different opinions and values, there really is no on/off switch.

So for the rest of the members, please read Saboriogakusei's post and take this into consideration. I think that we are lucky to have them on the forum, I see them as being a brave and helpful member of the community.

[Ciriun]

As a fellow new member, I would just like to second everything Saborigakusei said.

[Adalira]

Harsh? Hurtful?? Really??? Honestly that just sounds entitled to me.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

no idea what you mean. Even google translate could not explain so i will not reply to it.
No need to explain either i would like to say lets agree to disagree and move on.
I agree with everything you said Saborigakosei. I hate politics myself and wish it never was blown out of proportion the way it was.
It was a sad day yesterday and i hope we can all move on.
I will be certain not to right about it anymore and also not to respond or write with certain mers on the forum to avoid any further conflict and keep the peace.
This is an awesome place for a mermaid and i hope you have and will continue to enjoy your time here :)

[Theobromine]

I'm joining the Saborikasugei fan club. Dude, you articulated that so perfectly you expressed exactly what I've been wanting to say myself. I'm not new here, but I have friends who are, and the LAST thing I would want is for any new mers to feel unwelcome. We were all new to this once. I remember when I first realized that there was an actual community for people who were like me, I was just so glad there was a place I could finally fit in and discuss my weird passion for swimming like a fish without fear of judgment. Isn't that why we're all here? I LOVE making new friends who share my passions as well as introducing new people to the community. Just because you haven't been around since the beginning doesn't mean you can't participate. I think sometimes it's a little too easy for older members to lose sight of this (not referring to anyone in particular).

I do feel like the drama happens in waves, and recently there has been a crazy amount of it (or maybe I'm just noticing it more keenly because this was the first time I'd ever been involved in it). I HATE drama, usually I keep my head down and stay way out of it, and I feel like drama just for the purpose of drama has no place on the forum. It's horrible to lose sight of what we're all here for just because of petty sniping and snarking. That being said, I do feel that there are legitimate issues where it's necessary to speak out. Hate speech or any sort of marginalization should definitely be called out, because by keeping our heads down we're silently condoning hateful behavior. In the long run, that is far more damaging to our community than standing up and letting people know when their behavior is unacceptable (and in those cases, the drama usually happens because people don't like having their own ugly truths pointed out to them).

[AniaR]

Hi, new mer here! ^^
I've only been active on the forum a few months here, so just in case anyone was wondering how the thread comes across to new folk...

I didn't mind the drama too much.. I'll admit at times it was a bit entertaining haha. But now when I log in the ONLY things I see are the drama thread and b*tch it out. And politics. I hate politics. xD

Obviously you have to have a balance. I don't think mernetwork would really be a community if it were strictly mer related topics. It would just be a reference site. Which isn't a bad thing, but the main draw of this site for me, as well as many others I'm sure, is being able to finally find other people who understand you and to whom you can speak freely about your similar hobbies and interests. And of course mers want to speak to other mers about un-mer-related things - such as Momo's excellent corset thread, which isn't strictly mer-related but is specifically for mers who like corsets! So I do agree in that respect.

THAT SAID. There's entirely too much negativity for my taste. During my brief time here on mernetwork I've developed the sense that this is NOT a place for me to make friends who understand my love for swimming and tail swimming, but a place I can come for reference and info if I need it so long as I KEEP MY HEAD DOWN for fear of offending someone with even the most well-intended posts. For the most part, I don't feel I can have any input here without starting drama or annoying people. I understand that plenty of active members have been here far longer than I and have a better understanding of the community and what goes on, but I don't think that should interfere with new members feeling welcome and included. Obviously there's going to be drama. I'm not a bleeding heart who thinks that everyone should always get along. I'm just saying that I don't experience remotely this much drama in any other fandom/online community that I'm in, and I just want to make some friends and it's hard to do that while dodging constant mud-slinging. xD

Thanks for hearing me out.
Preach. You summed it up perfectly

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Calizaire]

THAT SAID. There's entirely too much negativity for my taste. During my brief time here on mernetwork I've developed the sense that this is NOT a place for me to make friends who understand my love for swimming and tail swimming, but a place I can come for reference and info if I need it so long as I KEEP MY HEAD DOWN for fear of offending someone with even the most well-intended posts. For the most part, I don't feel I can have any input here without starting drama or annoying people. I understand that plenty of active members have been here far longer than I and have a better understanding of the community and what goes on, but I don't think that should interfere with new members feeling welcome and included. Obviously there's going to be drama. I'm not a bleeding heart who thinks that everyone should always get along. I'm just saying that I don't experience remotely this much drama in any other fandom/online community that I'm in, and I just want to make some friends and it's hard to do that while dodging constant mud-slinging. xD

Thanks for hearing me out.
As a fellow new member I entirely agree and thank you for posting that! I joined this forum in the hopes of relating with like minded mers, sharing in mer joys and accomplishments and learning some new things. After reading through several threads and seeing the way some members seem to feel free to bully or diminish others, I've come to the conclusion that this is not a forum for me. I love checking in on the progress of tail making and other artistic projects mers are working on, and seeing and celebrating photos and news from some of the nifty things mers are doing; but other than that, it is not a community I'm interested in getting any deeper than that into as it seems largely drama focused and that's just not what I came for or what my own mermaiding world is about.

[Echidna]

I'm just saying that I don't experience remotely this much drama in any other fandom/online community that I'm in
word.
And I've been in a friggin' dance and musical community (not just internet, also RL).

I've never, in any place, forum or site, witnessed this much unabashed mud-slinging, word-twisting, and bullying.
Usually when people realize they can't get along, they ignore each other and are done with it.
Not so here.

I've tried a few times to get some mers I work with to join MN.
They said "no way" after reading a bit through the pages.
I was very disappointed because I really wanted them to become part of this community, but I fully understand why they wouldn't.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Well... Mermaids are quite vicious : P
all jokes aside, I hope you didn't take my words as mud slinging. We've been getting along pretty fine I think.

[AniaR]

Actually, some of the topics people talk about here on forums actually dedicated to them? Are known for being terrible. Mommy boards for instance, on issues of parenting.

[Echidna]

Well... Mermaids are quite vicious : P
all jokes aside, I hope you didn't take my words as mud slinging. We've been getting along pretty fine I think.

No, I wasn't referring to you.
You could have phrased some stuff a bit nicer, but I don't think you were trying to be mean.

It just struck me that the difference in atmosphere on MN and other forums I'm on is sometimes really profound.
You can't let your guard down here, and think you're among friends, or even just like-minded individuals.
You have to be cautious all the time what you say, how you say it, and where you say it; and even then, even with the most harmless posts as saborigakusei mentioned, there is the possibility someone will blow up in your face, twisting your words around, making a classical strawman argument-
or even the advanced strawman, that goes like:
"you used a racial slur and said these and those things!! I know you didn't say it that way, but it comes across like that!" and then next thing they claim it was indeed YOU that said what THEY invented in the first place.

Love how everyone just believes it on hearsay, even when (of course) the original post "cannot be found".
This is not even drama, this is slander, and it makes being on MN feel like treading in a pit of scorpions.
So when I go elsewhere- and I assure you I'm not being a different person then all of a sudden-, I realize just how relaxed, friendly, normal other forums can be in comparison.

(I don't know about mummy boards, I never was on one lol.)

Those who wonder why I'm still here if I feel this way; there isn't really an international mercommunity elsewhere.
I do have friends here, and I love to read many people who I think are absolutely awesome.

Sorry, this was a bit of rant in a thread I normally don't even read.
I put a bunch of peeps on ignore, and I won't be making the mistake again to read them still for the sake of an interesting topic, because the drama that's spun out of it is just not worth it.

[SeaGlass Siren]

No, I wasn't referring to you.
You could have phrased some stuff a bit nicer, but I don't think you were trying to be mean.

It just struck me that the difference in atmosphere on MN and other forums I'm on is sometimes really profound.
You can't let your guard down here, and think you're among friends, or even just like-minded individuals.
You have to be cautious all the time what you say, how you say it, and where you say it; and even then, even with the most harmless posts as saborigakusei mentioned, there is the possibility someone will blow up in your face, twisting your words around, making a classical strawman argument-
or even the advanced strawman, that goes like:
"you used a racial slur and said these and those things!! I know you didn't say it that way, but it comes across like that!" and then next thing they claim it was indeed YOU that said what THEY invented in the first place.

Love how everyone just believes it on hearsay, even when (of course) the original post "cannot be found".
This is not even drama, this is slander, and it makes being on MN feel like treading in a pit of scorpions.
So when I go elsewhere- and I assure you I'm not being a different person then all of a sudden-, I realize just how relaxed, friendly, normal other forums can be in comparison.

(I don't know about mummy boards, I never was on one lol.)

Those who wonder why I'm still here if I feel this way; there isn't really an international mercommunity elsewhere.
I do have friends here, and I love to read many people who I think are absolutely awesome.

Sorry, this was a bit of rant in a thread I normally don't even read.
I put a bunch of peeps on ignore, and I won't be making the mistake again to read them still for the sake of an interesting topic, because the drama that's spun out of it is just not worth it.
I can admit that when I don't know how to say something nicely I just say it bluntly and know "well shit it's rude but..."

[Echidna]

ye, I think we have that in common :p

[Merman_Shawn]

Tried to delete this post, but it won't delete. bah

[Merman Dylan]

I'm done with negativity, and I'm ready to swim in a better direction. Thank you for all the support you guys have given me. I know I was difficult, but I had something I can best describe as cancer in my heart to get over. That's what it all was, at least to me. I had stuff that happened in the past that just took a different shape each and every time things got hard and stressful. It was my own inner demons I had to fight. I finally feel like I'm ready to move after years of fighting with this long before this community came around. For now, I'm just going to take the time to enjoy the springs and ocean and be a part of events if I can do that. I need to just do what I've always wanted to do. I need to be a part of what makes me happy. I don't know where this road will take me, but I have faith that I'm finally on the path to moving forward with my life. I'm sorry you guys got caught up in that fight with my inner demons. For those of you guys that took the time to try and help, I want you to know that it wasn't in vein and it was what I needed which is more important than what I want. Thanks to everyone, I think I've finally been able to shake off whatever I couldn't let go. It's the funniest thing, and the only thing I can't explain in this life. The acts of kindness and the willingness to help others in spite of the monster that they are is an incredible thing. It's the only thing on this planet that has ever brought my Bipolar to a complete stop. You guys might not have seen it. You may not think this is the truth. However, I did learn from those who tried to help. It just took a little longer to sink in. I guess in a twisted sense. I just needed enough people trying to help me to break free of things that hurt me for years. Like I said, none of this makes sense to me. It's just something I've learned living with BiPolar. I am responsible for my actions, and I'm going to make up for it by living the way I should have been in the first place, before my inner demons overwhelmed me. I hope that someday we will meet on better terms and become good friends.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Oh Jesus Dylan in sorry that happened to you :(

[Sabrina the Selkie]

Ugh, I hate when things get misinterpreted and a whole conversation gets blown so out of proportion it's ridiculous. I send waves of sympathy, Dylan.

On another note, this is the sort of thing that should probably be resolved via P.M. and NOT public call-out on the Drama Bubble Thread.

Good luck, Dylan! <3

[SeaGlass Siren]

Dylan I think maybe you think too hard about things. Leave it as is. If she doesn't want to be friends or resolve it then she doesn't.

[Mermaid Momo]

Dylan I think maybe you think too hard about things. Leave it as is. If she doesn't want to be friends or resolve it then she doesn't.
Seconding, looking at most of your recent forum posts including your recent thread, you tend to over think things a lot and think into things that aren't really there. I'd say leave it as is.

[AniaR]

No one is acting like you're stuck in the same spot Dylan, you ARE stuck in the same spot.

You asked questions, people gave you answers (letting you know about my resources and the ones on mernetwork) but you didn't like those answers. Sorry, but the answers are what they are.

I didn't expect when I suggested you come here to chat that you would continue on with the same drama you had in the mermania group. You were given very reasonable responses and people were very patient, with a lot of great advice. There really wasn't anything intense about it. Your comments there came off rude, entitled, pushing blame on other people for your own actions. You wanted answers; you were given them.

I'm going to encourage you to follow through with the online therapy program I suggested, if you're having this much trouble self regulating your thoughts and actions it might be good to take an online break from the mer world. You have a lot of issues you need help with as you've stated, and the mer world can only help with mer related things. And even then, if you don't like the help- that's all there is. For your personal concerns about your mental health, how people perceive you, and the disconnect you seem to be having in the community: you need a professional to work with you on those things.

Good luck.

[Mermaid Alea]

Merman Dylan where is the thread you started asking about this? Or is this just something you asked in a Facebook post?

I understand you are upset about not getting the answers you wanted, but it is hard for people to find exactly what you are looking for since they don't know exactly what you are wanting. Sometimes I find that researching on the internet on my own gets me the answers much quicker than asking others to help me find what I am looking for. It is just hard to explain to people all of the info you are looking for and you of course know best what you want. Anyways, I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone. I wasn't even aware of your questions and couldn't find them. I just want you to know that not getting the answers you want doesn't mean people are trying to ignore you, be rude, hateful, etc. I personally have no experience in the topics you have questions about, so I wouldn't be of much help since you are looking for people with first person experience.

[Madison MerFaerie]

A lot of these posts are gone from the MerMania group because they distract from the event and clog the page preventing folks from finding relevant information. Dylan also heavily edits/deletes posts on his own page. So if anyone is looking for these things on Facebook you're not likely to find them. That said, if you didn't see Dylan's original question and the responses that he got, please do not be quick to judge.

I've tried to help Dylan twice with two separate issues and all I got back from him was attitude. He initially asked a super vague question that had NOTHING to do with safety certifications. It was quite literally something to the effect of "i have questions and I need help, what do you guys think?" I specifically remember reading this post and being confused because I had NO IDEA what he was actually asking. A lot of people (including myself) responded that he should seek answers on MerNetwork and Raina's book. He deleted every response (including mine) that suggested MerNetwork or Raina's book, so a lot of folks continued to suggest these resources because it appeared that no one had suggested them yet. Dylan then said he didn't think he'd find the answers that he wanted in Raina's book (again, he asked a VAGUE question) and that he wasn't planning to read it anytime soon. LATER in all of this mess he asked his specific questions, and proceeded to say that he wasn't in a position to buy the book but eventually planned to read it. People were trying to help you, and you LITERALLY responded "I'm angry because I'm not getting the answers that I want." I'm sorry Dylan, but that comes off as extremely rude and entitled. Especially when you initially asked a very very VERY vague question and people tried to help you.

You also responded rudely to me on another issue in the MerMania page. You asked no less than 3x (all in separate posts, again clogging the event page) how much you could expect to pay for a room if you were sharing with a roommate. The room rates had been posted for weeks, and simple math can figure out a 3 night stay divided by two people. You also previously kept asking how much money you'd need to bring for food, and how much you'd need to spend on gas. I helped you calculate how much you'd spend on the room (admittedly I forgot to figure in tax, but it gave you a rough idea). I looked up the distance between your home city and Greensboro, and let you know that you could expect to fill up a gas tank 2-3 times on that trip each way. I let you know that it would be difficult to calculate food because no one knows how much you eat or what you like to eat in general (fast food vs fancy pants food) and if you have any dietary restrictions (vegetarian, vegan, gluten free, cannibalism, etc). I typed you a long, respectful post and you responded rudely to it saying that I gave you more information than you needed. DUDE, I typed that post because I was sick of seeing you ask the same 3 freaking questions over and over and over. People on the MerMania group have been responding to you in a somewhat frustrated manner because of the amount of posts that you make saying the same things repeatedly. You additionally clogged the page with repeated posts hemming and hawing about whether or not you would go, along with posting about personal struggles with your family. The event page is not the proper place for that. That is more suited for your personal page.

Another gripe is that you seem to expect everyone to know about you and your personal struggles. When someone refers you to MerNetwork you blow them off and get upset that they referred you there. Again, people are just trying to help. Not everyone knows about the drama between you and Pod of the South. Please don't get mad at people for suggesting that you use a valuable community resource just because they don't know you have issues with it.

Dylan, I agree with Raina that you need to seek advice and/or therapy on self-regulating. I can certainly see some parallels between your struggles with Pod of the South and your struggles on the MerMania page. I suggest you reflect on that. When you get involved in the same type of drama multiple times, you gotta start wondering where you're going wrong. I'm not saying that everyone involved in these situations has reacted 100% appropriately. People can speak out of anger and it can be unfortunate, but there has to be a reason why this drama tends to find you repeatedly.

[Sherielle]

Madison Juliette is wise.
Also smart.
Listen to her.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

@madison thank you. I've pointed out this very thing to him and got same attitude/response. It's a cycle with him. He gets mad... posts..edits.. delete..apologizes... cycle starts again.. blames others for the issue instead of seeing that it is mainly an internal issue he had yet to acknowledge and understand.
Frankly I'm tired of the pod of the south situation being redredged over and over again. It was almost a year ago. We tried to help you. You refused...you blew it out of proportion. We did notice you were gone but had already learned that helping you went no where you wanted.

I even recently extended an olive branch. I shared the info about your gathering to others. Gave my well wishes for a good event.

[AniaR]

Not sure if people saw this whole thing go down... but really... I can't believe someone would bash/hate on Hannah Fraser for doing a campaign against over fishing Tuna. Not to mention this individual clearly knows nothing about the wide range of work Hannah does and has always done. I kinda wanted to post it to show that #1: even hannah gets haters and #2 some people obviously have no clue.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t34.0-12/12180135_1085292208147590_408487957_n.jpg?oh=b3962 6331c2df7dad63135e75c9b4a35&oe=5638A8AE

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t34.0-12/12204698_1085292224814255_62302755_n.jpg?oh=d77b5f dc984e55ac995dd5ed82307632&oe=5638ECF0

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t34.0-12/12202425_1085292254814252_1820575283_n.jpg?oh=786e 4bbe971dacc893dc53d3ec17d969&oe=5638B3F6

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t34.0-12/12207697_1085292271480917_1678032356_n.jpg?oh=3b2e c23581466a3b0bf4a37a11bfa344&oe=5639EE1C

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t34.0-12/12204816_1085292314814246_1474984601_n.jpg?oh=d054 3cbf4100bb5b2d6c14cbb821331d&oe=5639E35A

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t34.0-12/12202229_1085292404814237_570287712_n.jpg?oh=c1781 89df03dd5fe4b6b5e5291bf22cf&oe=56392EFA


Honestly there are certain mermaids I have totally seen try to promote themselves as an environmental activist while doing nothing for the cause. *cough* melissa *cough* but if you don't know just how much Hannah Fraser has done and continues to do, maybe you need to check yourself in this community? I remember when she stood in the cove in Taiji and was rammed with boat propellers trying to protect the dolphins.

The sheer ignorance and hypocrisy blows my mind.

[IllynReaver]

I'm actually astonished that Hannah gets haters for what she does. That's truly sad.

[AniaR]

I don't get why this person thinks it would be appropriate to rant about her in a mermaid group either. That creates a conflict of interest for the members of the group you know? If you *need* to have some kind of issue at least keep it to your personal page!

[Mermaid Mystery]

I just want to say that shade at Melissa is exactly how I feel. People don't get why I feel that way but somebody said it.
Back to Hannah, why would you be annoyed at something like that? I'm much more annoyed at constant product promos than actual conservation efforts! Seriously, Hannah is in the right and having a problem with that is ridiculous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IllynReaver]

I don't get why this person thinks it would be appropriate to rant about her in a mermaid group either. That creates a conflict of interest for the members of the group you know? If you *need* to have some kind of issue at least keep it to your personal page!
No idea either. Like you said, if they "need" to do that, take it to their personal page or private message. Leave it off the forums.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Jesus Christ.... This is why we can't have nice things.

[Madison MerFaerie]

Speaking of having nice things, I am awaiting an order from Judy. I really wish I had seen this rant before giving her my money! That rant was totally uncalled for....

[Princess Pearl]

You can't raise awareness quietly and privately. That's the opposite of raising awareness. My head hurts.

[Mermaid Alea]

What a strange thing to post on a mermaid group. When I see Hannah or other mers promoting conservation through photos/videos/text I feel inspired. I highly doubt Hannah is using it all just to bring attention to herself. You can tell she loves the ocean and its inhabitants because she puts herself in danger to help save them. She is living her dream.

Yes she shows herself and talks about herself conserving the ocean because HOW ELSE is she going to spread awareness and inspire people?! That is like saying to a teacher, "You are showing off how much you know to my child by teaching them, so you can't teach them anymore because you shouldn't show off your knowledge."

If Hannah doesn't ever reply to her that would make sense. She probably doesn't need to waste her time on someone who doesn't understand the message she is trying to get across.

This is one of the reasons why I don't do Facebook. :doh:

[AniaR]

she ended up claiming that she had no idea who hannah fraser was (don't understand how you can be involved in the mermaid community and not TBH) and that Hannah told her to spread her love around. So basically she claimed ignorance, which is fine. but then she got her daughter in on it and started this whole giant I am a victim thread after people already said "ok you messed up moving on" which then escalated to
Judy Bielik (https://www.facebook.com/judy.bielik?fref=ufi) do you want me to DIE! is that what you want? will this make you all happy??????

-_- I told her if she's serious to call a hotline. I hate when people throw out suicidal comments like that. The thread was pretty tame actually just people talking the same way they are here.

If you dont know the person that's even more of a reason not to publicly bitch them out.

[SeaGlass Siren]

http://mernetwork.com/index/webkit-fake-url://cf8cb7a6-27e2-4955-a305-219ab8403f75/imagegif

Hate when people play in the victim card when they're attacking others. Cuz you know, like THAT makes total sense. #not
#literallyIcant

[Spindrift]

Some people just have a disconnect between reality and their 'reality'. They just don't get it. And they're ignorant. Its a lot of energy and patience to try to reason with people who don't treat others as if it is worth their time. I appreciate the efforts of those who try to do it though. :)

[Starfrit]

Judy just strikes me as the kind of person who likes to complain about everything and be a condescending jerk to people who disagree with her. I guess it's the only way she can make herself feel big. :T

I bet she makes lots of friends who are just as charming and friendly as she is.

Also, can I just take a moment here and say that everyone who makes the argument of "If you're going to care about [x] issue, you have to care about [y] issue too" can get fucked? It's a slippery slope argument and using that to try and discredit someone's work in one particular field is total bullshit. The kinds of people who makes that argument are, nine times out of ten, the Armchair Slacktivists who think that sharing a grainy FB graphic or putting their profile picture through a colorful filter is the equivalent of real activism. Just because you claim to care more about all animals equally doesn't make someone else's work trying help marine life any less important, either. ESPECIALLY someone who's dedicated so much of their life to it as Hannah. Get off your moral high-horse and get stuffed.

I have zero patience for people like this. Bloody tools, the lot of 'em.

[AniaR]

There's other stuff going on now as a result. I think she made this way bigger a deal than it needed to be. You made a mistake, make a sincere public apology, and move on. People will let it go if she lets it go.

[PhaylennMurúch]

She kicked everyone who didn't agree with her out of the Mermaid Sanctuary group. A group, I'd like to point out, that was originally touted as a safe place for people in the mermaid community who didn't want to deal with the negativity of the larger groups, then once they reached like 600 members it turned into a business advertising group for Judy's etsy page of the same name.

[Starfrit]

She kicked everyone who didn't agree with her out of the Mermaid Sanctuary group. A group, I'd like to point out, that was originally touted as a safe place for people in the mermaid community who didn't want to deal with the negativity of the larger groups, then once they reached like 600 members it turned into a business advertising group for Judy's etsy page of the same name.

Literally none of this surprises me. A lot of the time, groups that are made as a "safe space" for people to "get away from drama/negativity" are made by people who don't want to acknowledge when they're being called out for their own shitty behavior while simultaneously being in a position of control / center of attention (isn't that why Eric made his own forums away from MerNetwork?)

Drama. Drama never changes.​

[SeaGlass Siren]

Judy just strikes me as the kind of person who likes to complain about everything and be a condescending jerk to people who disagree with her. I guess it's the only way she can make herself feel big. :T

I bet she makes lots of friends who are just as charming and friendly as she is.

Also, can I just take a moment here and say that everyone who makes the argument of "If you're going to care about [x] issue, you have to care about [y] issue too" can get fucked? It's a slippery slope argument and using that to try and discredit someone's work in one particular field is total bullshit. The kinds of people who makes that argument are, nine times out of ten, the Armchair Slacktivists who think that sharing a grainy FB graphic or putting their profile picture through a colorful filter is the equivalent of real activism. Just because you claim to care more about all animals equally doesn't make someone else's work trying help marine life any less important, either. ESPECIALLY someone who's dedicated so much of their life to it as Hannah. Get off your moral high-horse and get stuffed.

I have zero patience for people like this. Bloody tools, the lot of 'em.
I hate those people too. Seriously just because someone is passionate about one thing doesn't mean the other isn't as important. That's why we're multiple groups dedicated to a bunch of important issues.
Dedcating attention to one doesn't mean the other isn't as important.

[AniaR]

Context for everyone else: Judy be sending around a bunch of ignorant PM to people and pages and groups.

DEAR JUDY

You are messaging a bunch of people, blaming my post on some poor innocent Cassandra girl? What's the deal! Is this another example of you jumping the gun without all the information again? You're PMing a whole bunch of people a bunch of lies, but you think I am harassing because I posted what you said???? If you don't like the fall out, then don't say these things. As I told you repeatedly on facebook, if you would like this to go away you NEED TO STOP. You are continuously making excuses, blaming others, and spreading around more ignorance (perfect example, not knowing who I am and blaming some innocent girl). JUST STOP ALL READY. You made a mistake about Hannah Fraser, handled it terrible, didnt actually give any sort of public apology but just attacked more people. You are not being harassed. You're being called out for continued inappropriate behaviour. This is not cyber bullying.

When you throw around suicide threads, cry cyber bullying etc you are undermining people who are actually living and struggling with those things. You are just dealing with a pretty moderate fallout from making some bad choices- choices you continue to make when you act this way.

You don't seem to have a basic grasp of how mernetwork works either. Posts aren't deleted, and People aren't suspended by simply showing what is going on in the mer world. I mean honestly, you kicked out everyone from your group who stood up to you about Hannah. You can't expect people to NOT talk about something like that.

Please, take a break from the internet you are alienating yourself constantly from the mermaid world with your public judgemental statements. You can't be a bully, and then decide you're being bullied because people stand up to you.



Dear cassandra L, sorry you are getting blamed me for posting screen shots of Judy's inappropriate comments. I have no idea who you are. Or why she's got some issue with you and has decided to blame you. This seems to be a theme...

[PhaylennMurúch]

Context for everyone else: Judy be sending around a bunch of ignorant PM to people and pages and groups.

DEAR JUDY

You are messaging a bunch of people, blaming my post on some poor innocent Cassandra girl? What's the deal! Is this another example of you jumping the gun without all the information again? You're PMing a whole bunch of people a bunch of lies, but you think I am harassing because I posted what you said???? If you don't like the fall out, then don't say these things. As I told you repeatedly on facebook, if you would like this to go away you NEED TO STOP. You are continuously making excuses, blaming others, and spreading around more ignorance (perfect example, not knowing who I am and blaming some innocent girl). JUST STOP ALL READY. You made a mistake about Hannah Fraser, handled it terrible, didnt actually give any sort of public apology but just attacked more people. You are not being harassed. You're being called out for continued inappropriate behaviour. This is not cyber bullying.

When you throw around suicide threads, cry cyber bullying etc you are undermining people who are actually living and struggling with those things. You are just dealing with a pretty moderate fallout from making some bad choices- choices you continue to make when you act this way.

You don't seem to have a basic grasp of how mernetwork works either. Posts aren't deleted, and People aren't suspended by simply showing what is going on in the mer world. I mean honestly, you kicked out everyone from your group who stood up to you about Hannah. You can't expect people to NOT talk about something like that.

Please, take a break from the internet you are alienating yourself constantly from the mermaid world with your public judgemental statements. You can't be a bully, and then decide you're being bullied because people stand up to you.



Dear cassandra L, sorry you are getting blamed me for posting screen shots of Judy's inappropriate comments. I have no idea who you are. Or why she's got some issue with you and has decided to blame you. This seems to be a theme...


oh it's because I called her out for playing the victim after getting rid of all of the people who actively disagreed with her (really, the reason someone gets the suicide hotline sent to them is because they have threatened suicide). The "mass message" was to two people who asked 'what happened', I sent the link to this thread because she sanitized everything before having her daughter post a "my mom's a victim" thread. I had to block her and a few other members of her family because they spent about two hours harassing me via PM for my actions. I've been contacted about this by quite a few members of the community due to her spreading this around. Hindsight being 20/20 I should have just left her group and said nothing but I have a knee jerk reaction to people who cause their own problems and then play the victim

I love how she misspelled my last name too

[Starfrit]

Jesus this just keeps getting wilder and wilder.

Judy, honey, I think you need to have your internet taken away for a little while so you can safely work out... Whatever the hell this is.

[PhaylennMurúch]

I'm actually curious about just how many she's messaged about me, 'cause I think it's more people than I pointed to this thread

[AniaR]

Sorry I didn't realize she meant you! Sorry she got us confused.

[PhaylennMurúch]

it's cool, water off a ducks back. I do think it's hilarious that she thinks that we are the same person

[AniaR]

great article about rude vs mean vs bullying: https://www.facebook.com/amightygirl/photos/a.360833590619627.72897.316489315054055/923028174400163/?type=3

[Merman Arion]

Honestly there are certain mermaids I have totally seen try to promote themselves as an environmental activist while doing nothing for the cause. *cough* melissa *cough* but if you don't know just how much Hannah Fraser has done and continues to do, maybe you need to check yourself in this community? I remember when she stood in the cove in Taiji and was rammed with boat propellers trying to protect the dolphins.

The sheer ignorance and hypocrisy blows my mind.

This part is EXACTLY why I do not do anything about ocean conservation on my page. Don't get me wrong though, I do care about what is happening to the oceans and the species underwater such as sharks, dolphins, orcas, and others. I'm always ready to donate for a crowfunding that is likely to work and do something meaningful.

However, am I gonna turn just like that into an environmental activist and start posting things on my page? I feel that would be really hypocrite of me because I do not have the experience nor the knowledge to do it. I would rather leave all that to my fellows mermen, Dan and Christian who know far much.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I don't claim to be an activist but I am guilty of sharing a lot of that stuff on my personal fb because I agree with it. I've only ever protested once.
the thing is I believe whatever you can do counts towards something. hannah does a kickfishass job of it and should be able to share whatever she wants on her page. That's kinda how activism works.

agreeing 1000% with Raina. PPB needs to check herself.

[Merman Arion]

Not really a bitch out, more like a bullshit call out :soap box:

This. Just. Happened.

34556

And I'm like :

http://38.media.tumblr.com/191c73c83700359b7aac230ebbf31161/tumblr_inline_nt3xu0cx4B1s3yfon_500.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma5j3sllLa1qe5i2i.gif

And looking at the hashtags, as usual, he didn't fuckin bother to give credits to Magictail... :doh:

[PearlieMae]

I hope you got screen caps because now it's gone.

[Saelyyia]

The link doesn't seem to work

[Merman Arion]

I hope you got screen caps because now it's gone.


The link doesn't seem to work

There. I edited my post.

[Ashe]

Oh yeah, me and some of my girls were talking about this earlier. It's shameless! Theres a picture of a Magictail right there. What is this boy thinking?

[Saelyyia]

Only of himself clearly. But then again doesn't he always? Unfortunately as long as his army of teenage fb fans is there to OOO and AHHH over everything he steals or photoshops into existence he has no reason to stop. He has already proven he doesn't give a Whale's Tail about being ethical or his standing with the actual mermaiding community or respecting his competitors.

[Hydra1337]

Not really a bitch out, more like a bullshit call out :soap box:

This. Just. Happened.

34556

And I'm like :

http://38.media.tumblr.com/191c73c83700359b7aac230ebbf31161/tumblr_inline_nt3xu0cx4B1s3yfon_500.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma5j3sllLa1qe5i2i.gif

And looking at the hashtags, as usual, he didn't fuckin bother to give credits to Magictail... :doh:

...Wow. I have so many unkind words I could call him after seeing that.

[Merman Arion]

Unfortunately as long as his army of teenage fb fans is there to OOO and AHHH over everything he steals or photoshops into existence he has no reason to stop.

Army?? :rolleyes:

Stupid has almost 119k of "fans" and in 2 hours, he got only 17 Likes for this picture, 2 comments and one share.
People are not dumb. They are not going to support stealing.

[Starfrit]

I just went to the Mertailor FB page, the photo is still there. Only two comments, though-- Either his followers are too stupid to notice it, or Eric's deleting any comments pointing it out.

Whatever, at least Eric's now broadcasting his blatant design theft now. Shine on, Eric, you special diamond :mermaid kiss:

[Merman Arion]

Shine on, Eric, you special diamond :mermaid kiss:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I friggin love you right now :hug:

[Mer-Crazy]

Shine on, Eric, you special diamond :mermaid kiss:


Tieri, I love you so much right now haha :hail:

[Merman Arion]

Guess who tagged me on Instagram? :doh:

34562

[Mer-Crazy]

Guess who tagged me on Instagram? :doh:

34562
Nice to know Eric has a lot of artistic integrity and takes pride in his originality. At least he's not trying to BS that it wasn't a stolen design... but there's something unsatisfying about him just right out admitting it.

[Merman Arion]

"It's what the customer wanted and is what they are going to be receiving based on their requests and design submissions."

Right. Because there are not many reviews here about people getting a different tail from what they had expected... :doh:

[Starfrit]

It's a similar color scheme

"Similar"?? He's copying the highlights in the fluke almost to a damn T!

And "It's what the customer wanted!" is NEVER a good excuse for design theft. Period. A client comes to you wanting you to copy someone else's design, you work with them to create a more unique design that they'll be happy with or you turn them down altogether— That's what Raven does! It's not a legal problem, sure, since there aren't any laws against doing what he's doing, but it's the decent, respectful thing to do for other tailmakers.

Not that Eric gives a damn about other tailmakers. Just so long as he gets that money, I guess. :T

[Echidna]

34563

it's completely different and not a copy because it's SILICONE, not crappy fabric...derp

[Inkling]

This one is a stretch, but its what I thought when I looked at his page (its based of an actual fish), and since we're on the magictail thing. Must have liked finfolks scales though.

34564 Not Mertailor

34565 Mertailor

[PearlieMae]

That top photo is LatexMan's work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMVEYS7Gc-4

I don't care for that 'combed rubber' look in the mertailor fluke.

[Hydra1337]

He seems like a real winner. *rolls eyes*

[Inkling]

That top photo is LatexMan's work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMVEYS7Gc-4

I don't care for that 'combed rubber' look in the mertailor fluke.

Thank you Pearlie! I couldn't find their page.

34566

When I saw this I immediately thought of Trump....

[Dancing Fish]

"It's what the customer wanted." Dude has just lost all justification to whine about anyone else copying his own designs and techniques. :violin:

[Starfrit]

IDK about that MerTailor/LatexMan comparison. There's enough difference in the colors and markings that I think he can get away with it. It's not a direct ripoff like the MagicTail copy.

(Also, this feels weird to say but I actually really like the look of the dorsal on the MerTailor one?? I usually hate how his dorsals look)


34566

When I saw this I immediately thought of Trump....

Yyyeeeeaaaaahhh Eric, honey, people talking about you outright ripping off other people's designs doesn't mean you're "doing something right." It means you fucked up, bro.

Not all attention is good attention.

[Starfrit]

Also, can I just say that I think it's kind of weirdly unprofessional how often he uses his business page to passive-aggressively vagueblog about us pointing out his bullshit? I mean, not that anybody actually expects professionalism from him at this point, but come on.

[Mermaid Mystery]

he knows better. this is so childish.

[Mermaid Lilium]

I guess he has to copy now... Seeing as the guy who used to do all the decent work has left him *slaps hand over her mouth* oh shite... Did I just go there? Yep, I went there.

xD

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[Rogue Siren]

I guess he has to copy now... Seeing as the guy who used to do all the decent work has left him *slaps hand over her mouth* oh shite... Did I just go there? Yep, I went there.

xD

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

Bahahaha!

[Hydra1337]

I guess he has to copy now... Seeing as the guy who used to do all the decent work has left him *slaps hand over her mouth* oh shite... Did I just go there? Yep, I went there.

xD

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

:)

[Starfrit]

I guess he has to copy now... Seeing as the guy who used to do all the decent work has left him *slaps hand over her mouth* oh shite... Did I just go there? Yep, I went there.

xD

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

https://media.giphy.com/media/K69f137YeVKec/giphy.gif

Bless you, Lilium. <3

[Sabrina the Selkie]

Lilium. That is brilliant.

[Mermaid Lilium]

*takes a flourishing bow*

Someone was going to say it eventually xD

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[Imogen Finnly]

Does he use forks for the fluke? Like those weird lines he puts in them?


Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[Starfrit]

Does he use forks for the fluke? Like those weird lines he puts in them?

Looks like he used a rake TBH. That's some MermaidsRUs-level detailing, loool

[Imogen Finnly]

Haha I didn't think people used forks and or sporks in tails anymore.
At least we know now that he has bought a share in the plastic spork trade.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[PearlieMae]

Complete lack of workmanship, in my opinion. It's just lazy.

[SeaGlass Siren]

So Facebook suddenly decided to remove my post about xianne lime and Gordon shagene on my page citing that it was against Facebook community standards

oh sure protect the merverts and harassers and collectors and stalkers and dozens of fake accounts while punishing people who call these... Plebes .... Out on their bullshit. Ugh

[Starfrit]

Sounds like one of the two (prob Xianne lbr) reported it to FB so it was automatically pulled by their system. :T Lol.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Two can play that game.

[Mermaid Alea]

I rather like that new pinkish red Mertailor tail except for the fluke sculpting as others have mentioned. Unfortunately, even if the fluke was sculpted to my liking I wouldn't bother buying one. I am not willing to take that chance.

[Mermaid Alea]

So when I first saw this tail raffle (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?12301-Purple-Mermaid-Studios!&highlight=purple+mermaid+tails) going on, I wanted to enter but I lost my card (It was a bad day) and was waiting on a new one to come in. I asked my Mom if I could use hers and just pay her back, but she refused to let me use her card. I got my new card in and I activated it, but it is not recognizing my new card. I guess it hasn't been enough time for my card to be recognized. :( I have reaaallly been wanting to enter and I know it ends tomorrow. :(

[Spindrift]

So when I first saw this tail raffle (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?12301-Purple-Mermaid-Studios!&highlight=purple+mermaid+tails) going on, I wanted to enter but I lost my card (It was a bad day) and was waiting on a new one to come in. I asked my Mom if I could use hers and just pay her back, but she refused to let me use her card. I got my new card in and I activated it, but it is not recognizing my new card. I guess it hasn't been enough time for my card to be recognized. :( I have reaaallly been wanting to enter and I know it ends tomorrow. :(

I don't know why this is in the drama thread, seems pretty tame to me :)
But maybe you can contact them and mail a check instead?

[Madison MerFaerie]

I would post this in B!tc# It Out, but that forum is for non-mer related venting. This is mer-related, so imma put my bitch here.

I'm not a well-known mer. I'm newer to the community, haven't been to any conventions (yet!), and rarely post to Facebook or really speak out on anything. I'm dealing with a mer that's been around for a long time. This person is supposed to be providing a good/service to me. No it's not a tail, and no it's not about one of the major tailmakers. I paid in July, the person said the item would be done by mid-August. Missed the deadline. No big deal, I'll get over it. Not gonna raise a stink about it, that's just not how I roll. Another month passes and they swear that my item is ALMOST DONE. Awesome! So now it's the end of the freaking year and still nothing. I've asked a few more times and I keep getting the same response. "Almost done!"

This item DOES NOT take this amount of time to make. And when I see this person ignoring my messages while simultaneously posting what appears to be massive amounts of time spent on other (yet related) business endeavors, I GET PISSED. I'm glad you have found an additional way to earn income, but you can't forget about those who you have already made committments to.

I don't want a refund. I want my item. I ordered it for a reason! And if it is really that close to being done, I certainly don't want to be a dick about it and ask for a refund when the materials for the item are already purchased and in-production.

Lastly, I won't be divulging details, and there is a reason for that. I've been through this kind of shit before in other aspects of life, and I know what happens when the new kid goes up against the well-known person that everyone knows and loves. If I were to make a stink and publicly name names, I know that one or all of the following responses would ensue:

-"That doesn't sound like X. They are so sweet and would never do something like that! Blah blah blah, Madison is being a bitch about this whole thing to poor innocent X."
-"X has been really busy pursuing other things, dontcha know?"
-"I'm sure X has a very valid reason for making you wait this long." If so, they should just COMMUNICATE that with ME (the person who paid them money).
-"X is an ARTISTE. You have to give it time." Ok, I can appreciate art. This is not a tail, or anything terribly difficult. This is a BASIC piece that was supposed to be done by August. At which point does the artsy fartsy time allowance excuse officially become bullshit?

Am I being a pushover? Should I just put on my big girl panties and start sending some strongly worded messages? Emailing them daily until the item arrives? Will the person just slap my item together haphazardly just to get me off their back? Should I continue to wait in hopes that I'll get a more carefully constructed item?


Despite the name of this thread, it is NOT my intent to start drama. I just really needed to get that off my chest, and I actually do feel better after typing all of that out.

[PhaylennMurúch]

I would post this in B!tc# It Out, but that forum is for non-mer related venting. This is mer-related, so imma put my bitch here.

I'm not a well-known mer. I'm newer to the community, haven't been to any conventions (yet!), and rarely post to Facebook or really speak out on anything. I'm dealing with a mer that's been around for a long time. This person is supposed to be providing a good/service to me. No it's not a tail, and no it's not about one of the major tailmakers. I paid in July, the person said the item would be done by mid-August. Missed the deadline. No big deal, I'll get over it. Not gonna raise a stink about it, that's just not how I roll. Another month passes and they swear that my item is ALMOST DONE. Awesome! So now it's the end of the freaking year and still nothing. I've asked a few more times and I keep getting the same response. "Almost done!"

This item DOES NOT take this amount of time to make. And when I see this person ignoring my messages while simultaneously posting what appears to be massive amounts of time spent on other (yet related) business endeavors, I GET PISSED. I'm glad you have found an additional way to earn income, but you can't forget about those who you have already made committments to.

I don't want a refund. I want my item. I ordered it for a reason! And if it is really that close to being done, I certainly don't want to be a dick about it and ask for a refund when the materials for the item are already purchased and in-production.

Lastly, I won't be divulging details, and there is a reason for that. I've been through this kind of shit before in other aspects of life, and I know what happens when the new kid goes up against the well-known person that everyone knows and loves. If I were to make a stink and publicly name names, I know that one or all of the following responses would ensue:

-"That doesn't sound like X. They are so sweet and would never do something like that! Blah blah blah, Madison is being a bitch about this whole thing to poor innocent X."
-"X has been really busy pursuing other things, dontcha know?"
-"I'm sure X has a very valid reason for making you wait this long." If so, they should just COMMUNICATE that with ME (the person who paid them money).
-"X is an ARTISTE. You have to give it time." Ok, I can appreciate art. This is not a tail, or anything terribly difficult. This is a BASIC piece that was supposed to be done by August. At which point does the artsy fartsy time allowance excuse officially become bullshit?

Am I being a pushover? Should I just put on my big girl panties and start sending some strongly worded messages? Emailing them daily until the item arrives? Will the person just slap my item together haphazardly just to get me off their back? Should I continue to wait in hopes that I'll get a more carefully constructed item?


Despite the name of this thread, it is NOT my intent to start drama. I just really needed to get that off my chest, and I actually do feel better after typing all of that out.

having just finished up a 9 months ish wait for a neoprene tail that was supposed to take 8 weeks from a maker who didn't communicate, you'd be surprised at how many people are in the same boat as you but no one talks about it for fear of pissing off the other party and losing out on their money and the paid for item.

IMHO talk about the issue, you may get some good ideas on how to handle it

[Mermaid Momo]

What Phaylenn said, we can't help you that much without knowing what the item was of who you ordered from (because you never know, you may have ordered from someone known in the community for doing that sort of thing, or someone else might have had the same problem with the same seller and can give you advice )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Starfrit]

having just finished up a 9 months ish wait for a neoprene tail that was supposed to take 8 weeks from a maker who didn't communicate, you'd be surprised at how many people are in the same boat as you but no one talks about it for fear of pissing off the other party and losing out on their money and the paid for item.

IMHO talk about the issue, you may get some good ideas on how to handle it

Was that your Harley Quinn tail? What ended up happening with that after?

[PhaylennMurúch]

Was that your Harley Quinn tail? What ended up happening with that after?

I just posted a review for it, long story short, the spikes on your tail that she said were going to be on mine too, weren't. It comes up super high so the hip fins are even with my belly button and it's weirdly lumpy. After a one hour swim (during which it was gapping so bad that I had to hold it up or the waistband would be around my knees) there is paint rubbed off on four or five different places, down to the white neoprene. And in the tub while I was rinsing the chlorine off, the water ran gray which makes me think that the black bleeds.

I re-took my measurements when I got the tail and they're exactly the same as when I took them for ordering so there shouldn't be a fit problem at all.
Thing is, when I started talking publicly about it people started talking about how they had heard similar stories from a lot of others going back years but people were hesitant to talk about their experiences because they "didn't want to start drama" but if they had I probably would have gone to a different maker for my neoprene tail and gotten it before my 31st birthday.

[AniaR]

To be totally honest I know/ have proof of sooooo much but Teiri I 1) didn't wanna make you uncomfortable because you love your tail and 2) I never know people are ordering from her until they've paid so its like, how do you even approach that? Plus, it makes me look like I'm against a single person.

There is a long sorted history with morticia ( who has changed her name dozens of times both in here and fb to get out from under the clouds of different issues she's been involved with) and a lot of it is in the earlier pages of the drama thread. Her 'mom' ( read: alt account) even had an account here. She was real tight with kanti. And given all I personally experienced with her, along with my other friends who have her tails. None of this surprises me.

I actually think if you were around in the old days Teiri she'd be someone you'd have called out a lot. Based on her forum and online behaviour.

When you got your tail and were so happy I thought she'd turned things around, and not gonna kick a person when they make an honest effort. Just seems from the people who came after you that it didn't last.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Starfrit]

Yeah, I have to be honest things started to click for me after Phaylenn wrote her initial post about the problems she had with getting her tail. I know one other person had ordered a tail from her around the same time as I did but I have no idea if they ever got it or not.

And then as I just mentioned to Phaylenn in PMs, there was that holiday auction she did last year, where... Nobody I know who bought from that auction (myself included) ever actually got the items we bid on. My sister was strung along for months before it finally boiled down to "lost in the mail, sorry."

Like, I absolutely adore my tail, but I really get the feeling that something shady is going on. I've been suspicious/wary about it for a while, but was nervous about speaking up.

[AniaR]

She and kanti were so vocal about scams and then both turned into scammers it seems.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[PhaylennMurúch]

yeah there are looots of things that just don't add up

[Mermaid Momo]

Is that why her facebook disappeared?

[Starfrit]

I didn't even realize until today that her Siren's Calling page is gone. Holy crap. :/ And she hasn't posted on her Mermaid Morticia page since August.

[PhaylennMurúch]

or the prototype testers group, you know the one that had people pay $5 per person for a chance to be a part of? I think that maybe 3 people got their promised bracers