The Drama Thread (WARNING: DRAMA AHEAD)

[AniaR]

thanks WM

[Thalassa]

I'm sorry, but I really need to vent.

I wish there were a way to block posts from certain areas of the forum from being shown in your Activity Stream (or some way to find all of the new posts EXCEPT what's in a certain area). If there's a way, please let me know...I'm not the most computer savvy.

I feel the need to defend myself almost daily, and not being the most assertive of people it always leaves me...I don't know how to describe it. I don't like conflict. I also don't ever want to push my beliefs on others, but I see them mocked so much that it makes me feel there's no safe place to turn. Occasionally my need to defend what I believe overrides my nonconfrontationalism and I post, and everyone has been wonderful when I have.

But I'm deeply religious. I believe in God, the Bible, the Book of Mormon and eternal truth.

I believe that God's truths are not subject to man's agreements, and that a piece of paper from the state does not change the definition of sin in God's eyes.

I believe that marriage and romance is meant to be between a man and a woman. I believe that one of God's greatest gifts is the ability to procreate, and it should be kept within the bounds that God has set.

I eat seafood. I don't eat it a lot, I don't like the taste of most fish but I love shrimp and occasionally some tuna.

These are all things that I see posts condemning over and over again. These are aspects of me that are as deeply rooted in me as the opposite are in many people...yet I don't see any posts about my viewpoint, I see the others daily either posting censure, mockery or agreement.

I know my beliefs are not popular in this day and age. I'm not forcing my beliefs on anybody, but I wish there was a way to block out the posts so I didn't constantly feel like, "Okay, now should I jump in? What about now? Should I address this? Would it cause too much trouble? *starts typing post* What if they think I'm attacking them? How do I even word this? I really don't feel like arguing, what if they want to argue? Neither one of us is going to convince the other...What if they hate me? *stops typing* Forget it."

I realize that it's not a majority of posts, but it is regular. And sometimes I feel like putting my hands over my head and screaming "JUST LEAVE ME ALONE WITH MY BELIEFS!"

I don't care that the posts are there. I just wish I didn't have to see them in my stream (and short of not using the stream and checking every forum individually, I don't see a way around that).

EDIT: I'm sure some of you wish you could block the Drama thread, as well. XP

[MermanJV]

Hey Thalassa.

I actually appreciate your honesty and open-ness about why you hold your beliefs. I understand your frustration about being hated on. Actually, its funny you mention it, because that slight (sometimes more than slight) feeling of isolation is the same one that a homosexual person feels every day. That is how I understand how you feel with it. Coupled with the feeling of "typing on eggshells", I definitely understand you.

I appreciate your beliefs, and while I do not share the same ones, I do have a question.... I do not wish to attack you, but I do want to hear an answer from you. You don't have to post here, and you could totally PM me, if that works for you...

My question is: I think I heard, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you believe marriage and romance is gods gift, and is between a man and a woman, as well as the gift of procreation. I believe you also said that you are not forcing your beliefs onto other people. My actual question is: do you believe that not allowing a same-sex couple to get married IS forcing your beliefs onto someone else? I'm not sure if that question makes sense, but I'd like to know if you think so.

Anywho, I really do appreciate the honesty and open-ness, and I'd love to be friends even if we differ on this issue. :)

Sincerely,
JV The Merwhale

[Thalassa]

MermanJV,

Thanks for being so respectful. I think many times people see the white, Christian, etc. as being the sort of "unattacked mainstream" and I'm glad we could find common ground in our feelings. ;-)

Honestly, that's a big question you asked there. XP I believe marriage and romance are ordained to be between man and woman. I believe that some people are born this way (and I know this is a very unpopular comparison) the same way people are born with a predisposition towards drug abuse or alcoholism. They are to be loved and not hated, but if they choose to practice or celebrate the lifestyle it is a sin. It's committing adultery, no matter what the state says. I believe that people are going to live in sin no matter what I do. Unless they ask my opinion and as long as they don't try to force me to recognize their "marriage" as something that's moral (ie "now that it's legal it's morally right, too") then I respect their right to choose their path. Do I think they're going to hell? I have no idea. I'm not God, I'm pretty sure the sin is not as bad as, say, murder or rape...but that doesn't make it right, either.

Hopefully that answers your question. I honestly love this community, and they've been wonderful to me. One of the reasons I stress so much about posting is because I genuinely like everyone I've met on here, and don't want to be seen as "they bad guy" by any one of them. Sometimes it just gets a little much, you know?

[Thalassa]

Thank you so much, Raina! I do try, because as I said I genuinely like everybody here. This is the best online community I've ever been a part of! I don't want to block anybody yet because I have yet to see any one mer who makes me feel bad enough that it outweighs the information I get from their other posts.

I'm going to try not using the Activity Stream and just checking the areas of my interest. It's not easy, but if it helps me avoid the icky feelings it'll be worth it.

[AniaR]

darlin I think just the fact you automatically put your posts in this thread here speaks VOLUMES to how much you respect everyone <3 if you EVER need to chat, PM me

[Thalassa]

darlin I think just the fact you automatically put your posts in this thread here speaks VOLUMES to how much you respect everyone <3 if you EVER need to chat, PM me

*faints* Raina just told me I could PM her! *fangirlsquee* ;-)

Seriously, though, thank you. That means a lot to me. I'll send you a PM if I find I need it.

[Winged Mermaid]

Tip: I don't know about blocking anything from the activity stream, but you can use the "new posts" page instead. Under "Forum" the link to the far left says "New Posts". It'll just show you what the thread is that was posted in recently. It doesn't give any snippets or previews or anything. If you know that there are certian threads that aggravate you, just don't go into them, and don't click on them when they pop up in the new posts. You can also, when you're on the page, click "Mark all forums read" then only new posts will come up instead of having backlog.

I think as long as everyone remains respectful and either agrees to disagree, or have a respectful discussion about something then we'll all be fine. Everyone has different beliefs. My thought is that everyone has their own path, and no one has the right to say what is right and wrong for that person, becuase they are not that person. As long as they're not harming anyone, if it is who they are and it makes them happy then agree to disagree and accept it as it is. This is with religion or lifestyle or anything else. Their path is their path, and they are meant to be on it, whatever it is, to learn and grow from it. With religion, the issues are between them and whatever god/goddess/universal consciousness that they believe in, no one has any business getting up in their face about it. So yeah, that's my opinion. Don't shove it in anyone's face, don't hate for it (love thy neighbors! -Jesus was indeed a wise man, even if you're not Christian). If you're asked your beliefs be respectful! Then we'll all get along :)

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I am having a really confusing time right now. I want so badly to be a great activist for the oceans, who inspires others to believe that the ocean is not a food bank or a sewer, but I find I am trying too hard. I am pushing people away with my rabid views, so I'm kinda having a crisis of faith. I do think my beliefs are very sincere, and when I'm not debating fiercely about them they do give me a sense of peace and comfort in that I have spiritual views that the ocean is sacred. I can never seem to find the balance between spreading the word and being overbearing, though Poseidon knows I try. I feel I can be a broken record and a one trick pony. People are so sick and tired of hearing how I feel about seafood, but it's hard for me not to talk about it as it is the CENTER of my mermaid lifestyle. I sincerely view the ocean's creatures as my extended family and it breaks my heart in a million pieces when people eat and harm them, especially if it's not a matter of survival by any means. I feel like if I want to continue being a member here, I should learn to restrain myself more, but not talking about my ocean-friendly diet and lifestyle is like most of you talking about swimming: the center of my mermaid lifestyle. I want very much for people to like and respect me, but sometimes I feel like people are so tired of hearing my preaching that they avoid me. I want very much for Raina and others here to respect that I am following my heart and doing what I believe is right and to help me find a better balance.

[Merman_Shawn]

Thalassa, I know which thread made you feel this way, and I know I started the thread. It was not my intention to alienate anyone on this forum. As I believe I've said before, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. The only reason I post what I post in regards to religion, is to give people outside of the Judeo-Christian realm, discussion topics to use when confronted by hostile Christians(you my dear, do not fall into this category). My best friend is Roman Catholic, and we've spent hours discussing religion without it getting ugly. I truly apologize if I made you uncomfortable. I struggle sometimes remembering that my opinion isn't the only one. My Mother and I grapple with this frequently. She found God, and rejected me in my early twenties because of my partner. She didn't reject me when I came out, but later on after she started going to Church again. It's difficult when someone is accepting of your orientation one day and changes the way they feel the next. Now I can't even talk to her about how my partner and I had a wonderful day at the beach, without her telling me that I'm disrespecting her. In a way, it has made me resent the idea of organized religion. Because you see, in my mind religion is what tore our family apart. However I digress, I really do apologize sweet heart.

While I am incapable of sharing your beliefs, I hope that we can understand and appreciate each other.

[Thalassa]

Aw, Shawn! *hugs* That is really hard when people have a sudden change of heart like that. :-(

Just so you know, your post was not the only one that inspired this, there have been a variety of posts that have been building this for a while, so please don't heap blame upon yourself.

It means a lot to me that so many of you have let me know that I'm not pushy, hateful, etc. I try to convey that, and it makes me so happy that I'm succeeding!

Just as you, I hope we can all understand and appreciate each other. I'm so very grateful to have found such wonderful mer-friends! I hope I can meet some of you in person someday (I'd love to meet all of you, but XD I know that will likely never happen).

[AniaR]

I want very much for Raina and others here to respect that I am following my heart and doing what I believe is right and to help me find a better balance.
Oh darlin, I KNOW you're trying hard, but I also know, everyone needs outside help when it comes to self regulation. I've been very me focused for a few weeks now, for some reasons I shared online, and some that I dont want to share because they're too personal. But I simply havent had time to care about anyone but me this little bit, and it's going to have to stay that way until I get through a few more things.

KL, you champion your causes more than anyone I know, but being an activist is only 1 part talking about your belief. I think you're still trying to find your balance. You DO need to work on self regulation, and you need to recognize that just because youre not talking about it all the time doesnt mean you're any less sincere about your beliefs. Im Christian, but I dont talk to everyone about it. It's not something a lot of people are comfortable with and some people dont mind conversing but some people do and that's fine. I can still be a christian, while not turning every conversation into being about my faith :)

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Thanks for responding, Raina! :) I think the problem is my stance on seafood isn't just something I want to do on my own, it's something that I want to promote in order to save the oceans and I wish I knew the right and wrong way to do it. I want to use my mer-page to expose people to a view that I feel does not get enough attention, and to encourage people to LOVE the ocean and its creatures instead of harming them. How can I do that without coming off as a self-righteous uncompromising prick? What else IS there to being an activist? Can you please elaboarate? Also, is it offensive to say like being a mer is about loving the ocean and it's creatures and protecting them, because that's how it is for me. I don't want those fish-eating mers to feel I'm judging them, but I've always thought of merfolk as friends with fish whether then eating them and that's part of why I identify with them.

[Merman_Shawn]

Thanks for responding, Raina! :) I think the problem is my stance on seafood isn't just something I want to do on my own, it's something that I want to promote in order to save the oceans and I wish I knew the right and wrong way to do it. I want to use my mer-page to expose people to a view that I feel does not get enough attention, and to encourage people to LOVE the ocean and its creatures instead of harming them. How can I do that without coming off as a self-righteous uncompromising prick? What else IS there to being an activist? Can you please elaboarate? Also, is it offensive to say like being a mer is about loving the ocean and it's creatures and protecting them, because that's how it is for me. I don't want those fish-eating mers to feel I'm judging them, but I've always thought of merfolk as friends with fish whether then eating them and that's part of why I identify with them.

In all my years being a civil rights activist, I find it hard sometimes not to become completely polarized. My best suggestion is to find facts backed up by reputable sources and present them in such a way that is informative and non-judgmental. The key is to be persuasive while not offending, and accepting that not everyone will be swayed. If you keep a positive attitude, you'll attract more people to you. The moment your words become acidic, is the moment you've lost the argument.

[Mermaid Ashleigh]

I was just having a talk with this with my boyfriend today...i love fish but im only going to eat what i catch myself

[Little_Orca]

I wish I knew how tone could be interpreted through the computer screen. Short of snarky comments with faux smiles next to them or typing in all caps to suggest you are yelling, I cannot quite grasp how helpful information and examples have led others to believe I was being harsh. Reasons similar to this, coupled with a lot of drama, kept me from returning to this forum for a while. Now, sadly, it seems history is repeating itself. I find this community very helpful and supportive and wonderful. I have met a lot of great mermaids and mermen here and have found some new friends and lots of inspiration. I will be back sometime; when I am just not sure yet. By no means is this a flounce; and I give nothing but love to those who are here, even those who seem to stir the tides.

Love to you all.

[Mermaid Annariea]

Are you affiliated with Mermagica.com? If I recall I have posted in two different postings. I am just trying to get the word out and make sure I am posting in the correct areas of this site. It is clear that Carey D. would rather Spin (DJ) at the local club than make and ship products she gets paid to do. If Music is your passion Carey maybe you should pursue that and not take others money and send items when you feel like it. How did the Spin go last night?

i just saw this.

what. i dont even.
in answer to your question, no, i am in no way affiliated with mermagica. and you obviously dont have my ip address.
also, if she is using my pictures "alias", then i would like to know, because i will do something about that. you may check all of the posts ive ever made, none of them have been about mermagica, and honestly, i wouldnt buy a tail from there. its too expensive for a fabric tail i could make myself, in my opinion, which is why i bought one from mermaid parties/ fish butts. (pics will be up soon guys :D its being painted!!)
there is nothing wrong with letting our community know that youve been wronged by a tailmaker, but you dont have to post it in multiple threads.
next time someone politely asks you to stop spamming, dont accuse them of being someone they clearly arent.

thanks to everyone who came to my defense :3 i dont check this thread much, haha. <3

[Ayla of Duluth]

Brianna, have I ever told you how stunning your profile pic is? You are one gorgeous mer! hot damn! xD

[Mermaid Annariea]

Brianna, have I ever told you how stunning your profile pic is? You are one gorgeous mer! hot damn! xD

awe!!! thank you!! :D thats so sweet <3

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

@Thalassa, I agree with you, it would be convenient to shield the activity screen from certain topics and areas... but that's a particularly rough form of censorship... even if it's only your computer that is being censored. Some of the most interesting topics and conversations on here, along with some of the more interesting people, have come from topics that I probably wouldn't have even known about if I tried something like that... for instance, I'd probably never have talked with you in that scenario.

I also start typing and stop, wonder if I should comment or if I've already said everything I have to say on the subject and whether I should hold my tongue (or my fingers, since I'm typing?), and who I'm trying to engage in discussion and why... and whether what I'll say will have any effect that would be worth causing. It is a frustrating feeling... but I suspect that even if one could block certain topics from the activity screen, more affronts would likely come up... discovering uncomfortable statements and discussions is probably part of the nature of the beast that is the internet, even if they're unintentional or simply not very well thought-out (which I admit a number of these discussions you've mentioned most likely are). Feeling like a bad guy is an uncomfortable feeling, particularly when it's not the case (in your situation) and you are simply trying to be yourself. I agree with your comments on feeling like a target of opportunity for certain people because of your "Unattacked Mainstream" due to your White, Christian status (White, Catholic here... and male... and I still have to worry about all that and how people will react to my sexuality, the fact that I'm Italian-American, etc)... there always seems to be someone who decides that you're too tempting a target to pass up, for a number of reasons (I console myself that it's because you and I are clearly more awesome than they are, and they have to stereotype us as a result, but I suppose I COULD be mistaken... possibly). ;)

You shouldn't feel like you're being pushed into confrontation (even by your own urge to speak up or by other people's comments), or that you need to defend yourself. Do you have any suggestions for the kind of statements one should avoid saying in order to keep from setting off your radar? Or ways of phrasing counterarguments so that you don't feel under attack and instead maybe feel like you're a valued part of the discussion because of your unique point of view given both your beliefs and your experiences (what I know about them, that is)?

I'd also want to know, with utmost respect to you... does sin really have to come up? As you've mentioned, your religious beliefs include that any sexual or romantic activity should be between a married man and woman, and anything that violates that pattern is a sin, but I think that there are a number of religious, philosophical, agnostic, atheistic, and spiritual beliefs on here, and each of us constitutes a unique chimera, at least as far as our beliefs go. You and I share a belief in the importance of religion and the presence of a monotheistic God in our lives, but our beliefs on what God expects of us in the romantic and sexual aspects of our life are very different. So, while you might consider one act to be a sin, I might not... and that's not really the point of most of the arguments out there, which tend to focus on whether our nation, which was founded and settled with principles of religious freedom and a mostly Deist perspective, should allow loving relationships between gay/bi men, lesbian/bi women, and the transgendered to be given the same legal, protected, economic status as that between a man and a woman. Your discussions on how people do act in the situations you've encountered, and how you have put an incredible effort into remaining friendly, unbiased, and generous with those of us with whom you disagree are important and valuable contributions, but I come from a mainly Quaker-prevalent environment, which largely proposes a live-and-let-live, so long as no one is hurt philosophy. As you point out, Sin is God's to deal with ultimately, and while your efforts to push us towards being saved do speak for your great heart, I think that same bright spirit also sensitizes you to attacks in a religious sphere when perhaps they aren't intended, and causes your efforts to arise in the middle of a discussion that maybe is about more legal/governmental/protected concerns that are more immediate than ultimate damnation or whether or not mere mortals like us can actually interfere with God's plan in any meaningful way by committing these sins. I'd really love to know more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints' belief on redemption and the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus and what it means for each of us and our personal salvation... sort of a the discussion of whether Grace alone can save our souls or whether our actions... virtues and sins... determine our ultimate spiritual fate. It is an area I confess I do not know much about.

However, as MermanJV pointed out, and Shawn illustrated, that sense of isolation and being attacked and unpopular and threatened is often directed towards members of the GLBT communities... often resulting in much more immediate concerns like being fired from jobs, passed over for promotions, separated from their families, losing friends, being insulted or attacked, and in some situations (which I hope I am right in considering rare) even killed. I feel that this is a more immediate concern than whether or not acting on homosexual attraction is a sin. Also, I would argue that a predisposition towards same-sex attraction is probably more like the romantic/physical predisposition some people have towards blonds, muscles, redheads, tall or short lovers, certain ethnicities, occupations (like doctors or the military), tattoos, and the like than drug abuse or alcoholism, though I can see your point and some similarities myself now that you've mentioned it. At the very least, I'd point out that the same thing could be said for coffee and coffee types, and yet I am one of the few people I know who doesn't touch the stuff (because I worry just how crazed I might be on that kind of regular caffeine rush than any spiritual or philosophical concerns), and there has not, to my knowledge, been any real push to keep people from going for coffee, getting coffee stains and rings everywhere, leaving coffee cups and mugs all over the place and blocking sidewalk and subway station traffic outside of every starbucks and dunkin' donuts in the morning... and late afternoons... even though I would argue that all of those are bad things.

@Princess Kae-Leah, Hmm, I can see your conflict... with abstaining from fish being so important a part of your identity as a mermaid, it would be a difficult indeed to avoid bringing it up in discussion, particularly since it is something you're so proud of. I think part of the difficulty is that many of the rest of us lack your focused drive... and also that maybe your attempt at activism is promoting your cause, but directing it at the wrong INDIVIDUALS (who might be quite happy eating seafood) instead of spreading it to reach a WIDER AUDIENCE and waiting for honestly interested people to come to you and find out more. Not everyone is going to give up seafood... at least not in the foreseeable future... but you might be able to get people to become more picky about what kinds of seafood they eat, when and how much, etc... and every little bit like that counts.

@Shawn, I second Thalassa's *hugs* and her sentiment in them... and I hope your resentment of organized religion will accept that I will pray that your mother makes just as abrupt a change in your favor as she did against it when she "Found God" (note to everyone here: I haven't put quote marks around "Found God" because I disbelieve in finding God or that one shouldn't search for Him and accept Him into one's life, but because I disbelieve that any real discovery and epiphany of God's presence in one's life justifies hurting one's child in any way, including emotionally).

@Little-Orca, Tone can be interpreted through a computer screen (not always accurately) by word choice, punctuation, capitalization, emphasis, and, most importantly, by the reader's mindset. A common warning given to writers is that what they write really is only a fraction of what the reader takes from that piece of literature, and that the best of intentions can have unexpected consequences, perhaps not even because of something one has done, but because of something the reader perceives in the writing... whether or not it actually exists, it is their perspective that shapes their experience, and therefore their perspective that bears the greatest forethought and attention when a writer communicates his or her ideas to a reader. In a situation on forums where people are reading swiftly and perhaps not in true depth like they might with a favorite book, more of these conflicts between what you wrote and what they read are likely to come up. Take heart, and hope to see/talk with you sooner rather than later.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

It's amazing the difference in how my beliefs and opinions are received in the chatbox here vs. on my mer-page on FB. Not to say that everyone who "likes" my mer-page agrees with me all of the time, but many do, and seem genuinely interested in what I have to say and I have managed to convince at least a handful of people to lay off seafood. I think the issue is that this is NOT primarily and environmental or animal welfare forum, it's a merfolk costuming forum, so the main topics of discussion are swimming and buying and making tails. When eco issues DO come up it's in more of a general, let's recycle, beach clean ups are good, consider using reusable shopping bags, Taiji is bad kinda way, not overly radical and extreme, where my belief is that the most important things people can do for the planet is watching what they put in their mouth. I think ppl here no where I stand on certain issues and feel like I've said all that needs to be said, I'm just repeating myself and not taking "no" for an answer. I feel most people aren't interested in my topics and in turn, I often have little to add to what they're talking about. I have nothing to add to swimming-related topics, such as discussions about monofins, breath holding, pools, buoyancy, etc., and why I've been outspoken about my lack of swimming ability is I feel this forum is very swimming-oriented, there is just no denying that. I'm also not a crafty person in the least, and discussions about tail and accessory making are also very popular. I tried to promote my FictionPress series on here, and got not as much interest as I was hoping.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

i want to vent about a certain "not to be named" person at palooza thier arrogance cause minor damage to ky artworks frames from people flocking to see thier half naked mermaids. i wish i would have noticed at the time that it happened so i could have made the attendee pay for the damage to my expensive frames... i noticed his looks over at my booth.... i think i spent more time marshaling people from kicking my art than actually enjoying talking to people...


ok i feel better...

[AniaR]

oh nerine, you're not alone, I realize people didn't know there was drama going on... but I've heard about an awful lot :p Im sorry your frames got ruined :(

[NerineArcticMermaid]

its minor but noticable.....i might be able to fix but ugh shouldnt have to...
those mer also really didnt mingle with everone elsecduring the pool party.........i hate drama

[NerineArcticMermaid]

its ok steph..like i said just niticed it while unpacking the art... i think i can fix the scratchesin the frames so i wont have to replace them...
just need to stick you know who in his own corner with that big display

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I feel I often at least here on MN come off as a whiny, complaining person, always going on and on about what I can't and don't know how to do, but never really making an attempt to do something about it, and I hate that. The truth is, there's many things I could do but deep down, really don't want to. I never really wanted to swim, and the truth is, I hate chlorinated pools(yes, there are saline pools, but they are much rarer than chlorine pools), I just wanted to feel I fit in here since most mers swim. I never really wanted to make stuff, but since most here do, I just wanted to feel like I fit in, again. All I ever wanted to do is be an activist, write, meditate, and take pics in my tail, but it seems most here want to swim and make stuff I really sometimes feel I do not fit in here and have little to add to the most popular conversations. :( Sometimes I ask myself if I don't swim, and don't make tails and accessories, then why am I here? This isn't a forum about ocean conservation, or asexuality, or writing, or meditation. I have come to terms with the fact that swimming is for me, but I still get the occasional "well why don't you learn?" comment, which I'm not gonna lie, gets on my nerves as I feel like I try my darndest to accept myself, be my own mermaid and not what people want to see, not give into "keeping up with the Joneses" feelings of trying to measure up to mers, not make a big deal of something that isn't really a big deal, etc., and I feel when people act all shocked when they find out I can't swim or can't make stuff, etc., they're contributing to me coming back to those negative feelings. If people don't want me to make a big deal about what I can't or am not interested in doing, why must others make a big deal about it sometimes?

[New York Mermaid]

My mother in law is in the hospital, she has a rare disease called "cerebelum ataxia" which means her cerebelum is shrinking and she will loose her motor and speech skills and will be bedridden until her brain decides to do a complete shut down, my younger sister in law is at war with her 3 other siblings because the older sibling wants to put their mom in a home, when the younger one wants to send her mom to a neuro specialist to see what can be done even if to prolong her life alittle bit more, she's only 67yrs old.

My poor hubby is stressed cause the family came to a descision to sign a DNR and cremate his mom, and his mom is not even in her deathbed at the moment, she's in stable condition. Im taking anti anxiety pills, my best friend just called me, she lost her grandfather.. Oh yeah this keeps getting better and better.. I need a day in the ocean Like NOW!

[Mermaid Lorelei]

If it makes you feel better, your belt is ready Lanai. I have it ready to send and everything...

[Mermaid Momo]

@kae-leah
this forum isn't just for mers who swim and make stuff or those who want to, if you don't want to make things, then it's fine and so is the not swimming part, just add it on to the things that make you, you and different from all the other mers out there. and this forum can be about whatever the heck you post a thread on. The community is here to help you, not pressure you into something that you aren't into. Maybe when you feel pressured, you can just explain why you don't/won't do that thing or just ignore it.(don't worry it won't seem rude if you do it right) The best part about this community and forum is that somewhere, there may be someone else who shares the same views as you, they may not be a member today, buy heck, you'll never know until you chat with others right?

[AniaR]

aww Lanai Im sorry :( *hug*

KL, Honestly, I think you pressure yourself. You over- analyse the actions and words of others and perceive a shrinking bubble that isn't there. I dont want to pull the aspie card on you and act like I know all about it, but I do work with a lot of individuals and this is a common aspie issue for many. Try not to take the actions and words of one or two and white wash them across the whole community. And realize, some people simply just ARENT interested in what you have to say- and that doesn't mean they're bad people or being mean or insensitive. I'm very positive about healthy child development, and yeah some people here think that's cool but for most people it's like "okay do your thing Raina". I think you're often preaching to the choir with your causes, instead of to the people that actually need to hear it. Get out of the mermaid bubble where everyone already knows and is generally behind you. Seek out new places to share your experiences and wisdom- otherwise you're not making a difference and just saying the same ol stuff to the same ol people!
<3

[Princess Kae-Leah]

How would you suggest Raina I do that, and grow as an activist? You keep saying that talking about my causes is only part of being an activist, so what else can I do? I posted today on my mer-page about how there's only so much I can do.

Something else that bugs me is when mers call fabric tails "starter tails", "training wheels", etc., or otherwise imply that they're some how less legitimate as mertails than the more realistic, elaborate latex and silicone tails. I honestly love love love my tail, but I sometimes feel pressured that I should some day upgrade to a more expensive tail as especially now with Fish Butts and some other newer tailmakers making latex tails more affordable, I see less and less mers with tails like mine. I'm going to my first event next month with other mers and I'm really nervous about having the worst tail there.

[Ayla of Duluth]

KL, you have to get out into your own community and talk to other people! you've already pretty much reached all your followers here on mernetwork and your facebook page, the next step is to go out and talk to people in person. I think that's what AniaR is trying to say, is take it to the next level. Maybe go out and talk to others and once you get a group of followers in person, organize a peaceful protest. Make some signs and stand on a corner with everyone so you can reach all the people driving by.

And I think you're being self conscious about your tail hun. Its beautiful, it's perfect for you, comfortable, etc. People get tails based on their preferences and budget. You prefer a fabric tail and probably want it to be a rather affordable one at that, while I love the silicone ones and had the money to buy one of Mermaid Raven's. The tails other people buy have nothing to do with how good your tail is. there's no such thing as the worst tail there, and I don't see us as a community who judges negatively of other people's tails because they "aren't realistic enough." Sure, more people are buying latex tails, but that's just because its their preference. Every tail is unique, every tail made for the owner, and anyone who judges you for that and tries to say you have the worst tail is absolutely WRONG. That tail is what you love, it suits your needs, and I don't think you should let yourself be pressured by what other people are doing. Stick with your fabric tail, there's nothing wrong about it.

On another note, under a lot of AniaR's youtube videos, there's people complaining to her about "why not make a fabric tail? much cheaper and more affordable" etc. And with that mother who started that business making fabric mermaid tails and it hitting national news, I think fabric tails are just as popular as any other tail out there. :)

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I guess I just don't think there's much outside of "armchair activism"/"e-activism" that would work for me. My goal has been pretty much to get as my followers as I can on my mer-page and spread the word through there. I'd like to think I AM making a difference

[AniaR]

How would you suggest Raina I do that, and grow as an activist? You keep saying that talking about my causes is only part of being an activist, so what else can I do? I posted today on my mer-page about how there's only so much I can do.
Here's a perfect example, I didnt tell you to get up and go out somewhere, neither did anyone else! Im telling you to seek out other areas online instead of telling the same people the same thing- I know you'll gain more fans in the process too. Get on the forum for sea shepherd, get on some eco-ocean sites, contact some eco-ocean blogs! Dont limit yourself to mernetwork or the mer-community on FB. That's how you grow. but also, dont get obsessed with growing either. It's okay to just "be" for a little while.

I have NEVER seen a SINGLE person say to you that you need to go out and get a realistic tail. I have only seen people bend over backwards to try and make you feel included. So please stop saying we're pressuring you. That's actually starting to upset me because when you say that, it's like you're ignoring everything people do to make you feel welcome and included. I have never seen a person pressure you on here to change your tail or bash it- you are the ONLY one that does that- and you do it to yourself. I love and respect you, and will always support you, but this is something you need to recognize you're doing and it's something you frequently will spiral into with things that you feel insecure about.

I feel, and I know a lot of others feel, we're tired of trying to convince you your tail is fine, that it's fine you dont swim, that it's fine you do your activism from the computer. People can only take so much when it comes to giving others validation.(especially if they're going through their own trying times- as I am right now) We do our best, but you need to start validating YOURSELF instead of constantly asking us what you know we'll always say. I know it can be very difficult for you when it comes to things you're self-conscious about as well as passionate about. But this is something you need to work on- because I believe it's one of the things that turns people off to you. It's not that you talk all the time about your beliefs, it's that you're constantly putting yourself down and needing everyone else to reassure you you're fine. I've known you for YEARS online now! Im heading into my 3rd year in the online mer community! The entire time I've known you you get upset about your tail. You need to make a choice. Either YOU are okay with having a fabric tail.. or maybe you'd rather have a more realistic one you can walk in. But that's something you need to choose. Please dont say we're pressuring you. We have had whole threads dedicated SPECIFICALLY to trying to include you perspectives as a dry mermaid, as a fabric tail owner, as an asexual, and an aspie. I dont know any other mer on here who has THAT many threads dedicated to their special interests.

So stop selling yourself short. You're fine. Nobody here judges your choices, but they cant constantly be here to remind you that your choices are okay. Sooner or later you're going to need to start doing that yourself, or you'll end up alienating people.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Raina! *Hugs* Thanks for taking the time, I know your life is crazy right now. :) Poseidon knows I try, and try, and try to feel confident, but it is so hard. I get offended easily. I take generalizations personally. When people, for example, describe fabric tails as "starter tails" and are constantly rushing out to buy latex tails, I take it as a sign that there's something wrong with my tail, no matter how much they say otherwise. When people talk about how swimming is what mermaiding is all about, i took it as I can never be a full-fledged mer if I don't swim. I'm very literal-minded(remember Amelia Bedelia? she was one of my childhood heroes because I could relate to her extreme literal-mindedness). How do you suggest I work on being more confident? I feel like I've been trying, trying, trying, and I'm not sure I can do much more. How do you self-regulate? Do you think I should never again express how I feel different? I feel it's hard to keep myself from saying "I don't/can't swim" in response to topics about swimming in the chatbox, for example. I feel so awkward and uncomfortable, I guess. Or when people are saying how they're saving up for a fancy tail, it's hard to not chime in. I just have so little self-control, and I'm so overly analytical. I think the hard thing to get through my skull is like what Ayla said, that people are talking about their own needs and preferences, not mine. Believe me, I wish I did have more natural confidence, or that what confidence I do feel comes across better. Have you ever seen me say like "OMG I love my tail so much!" or "I love what I do do in my tail"? Probably not, as I'm far more likely to come off as complaining. I guess what's frustrating is I really would like to share what works for me with others. Like my mer-meditation: it's such a great experience for me, and I'd like to share that with other mers.

[Thalassa]

Something else that bugs me is when mers call fabric tails "starter tails", "training wheels", etc., or otherwise imply that they're some how less legitimate as mertails than the more realistic, elaborate latex and silicone tails. I honestly love love love my tail, but I sometimes feel pressured that I should some day upgrade to a more expensive tail as especially now with Fish Butts and some other newer tailmakers making latex tails more affordable, I see less and less mers with tails like mine. I'm going to my first event next month with other mers and I'm really nervous about having the worst tail there.

Please take what I say in a loving way, not sarcastic or biting:

To be honest, I think a lot of mers get a tail AS a "starter tail," planning on "upgrading" to a different tail later. The fact that they refer to these as such simply means that in this what they're planning on doing (and let's face it, the non-fabric tails are more expensive, so "upgrading" could simply mean expense-wise). I refer to my monofin as a "starter," because that's what I started with and I planned to upgrade. I refer to my Fish Butt as my "starter tail" because I plan on upgrading to a silicone tail soon.

Either way, you need to not let what people say get under your skin so much! You let yourself get sad a lot; look at the positive! You're looking at all the swimming threads going, "I can't participate in those!" and not looking at the myriad of other topics (and yes, they are there) that you're included in or have started. You're looking at people using certain terminology and letting it get under your skin. Honestly, I don't think many people see fabric tails as inferior, some people have straight out said they like them better. And even if people do prefer "realistic" tails to fabric ones, what bearing does it have on you? They haven't said anything against your tail. You're the only one that has, and honestly it doesn't sound like you love love love your tail when you talk about it.

People get tired of walking on eggshells trying to reassure, trying not to offend, trying to make absolutely certain what they say won't hurt someone's feelings...Eventually you need to realize that no one else can make you feel bad or negatively. YOU make yourself feel bad. I know how hard it can be to stop worrying and internalize that you're fine, but eventually it really makes people want to go away if they're constantly having to treat you with kid gloves. We love you, we try to show it, but it doesn't feel like you're feeling it.

(EDIT: Aaaand it's always a good idea to refresh the page before you submit your post, lol. I didn't realize Raina said almost the same thing, sorry. XP)

[Princess Kae-Leah]

No, I really do looooooove my tail, I swear to Poseidon that I do. Honestly, I think deep down that if I got another tail, I would miss this one. My tail is so comfortable that when it's on, it's like it's part of me, my second skin.

[Thalassa]

No, I really do looooooove my tail, I swear to Poseidon that I do. The thing is, though, while I love it myself, I still feel like it just doesn't impress people the way Raven's tails do, for example. I feel like if I entered my tail in a beauty pageant, it would never win, and I hate that. I envy the way people ooh and aah over others' realistic tails, and say they want one just like it. People seem to think that my tail is just fine for me, but I guess I just get beaten by the green-eyed monster sometimes since people have never raved about my tail the way they rave about Raven's work. Hopefully that makes sense! :)

It makes sense. I have a bit of that green-eyed monster in me; that's why I really had to step back and examine why I wanted a silicone tail. At first it was because I really envied the look of Raina's tail (it is really gorgeous) and the attention a really "realistic" tail gets. I had to struggle to separate myself from that and finally realized the main reason I wanted a silicone tail is durability. Once I realized that I gave myself permission to go for it (start saving), because honestly if you do something for attention or praise you'll never be happy (realized this from a few endeavors). You'll never be as famous or as "ooh and ahhed" over as others and that green-eyed monster will come out.

It's hard, it takes practice to retrain your brain from the negative to the positive, but it is possible! I'm not living proof (yet, lol), but I'm working on it! The practice is the key. If it helps, there's a book on it (The Happiness Makeover by MJ Ryan) that really helped me.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I actually edited my original post, because I felt like it didn't come out right. It made me seem petty and selfish, like all I care about is attention and praise, which does not make me look good. I think part of it is I want my mer-page to get a lot of likes, in order to promote my causes, and I feel it would help if I had a more realistic, expensive tail. I actually have been told in PMs on FB that I'm not a "real" mermaid, I'm a "freak with a crappy hand-made tail", "a little girl parading around my living room in a mermaid costume", and that my tail isn't a "serious" tail. It's very hard to forgive and forget such statements and I think I internalized them.

[Maple]

I actually edited my original post, because I felt like it didn't come out right. It made me seem petty and selfish, like all I care about is attention and praise, which does not make me look good. I think part of it is I want my mer-page to get a lot of likes, in order to promote my causes, and I feel it would help if I had a more realistic, expensive tail. I actually have been told in PMs on FB that I'm not a "real" mermaid, I'm a "freak with a crappy hand-made tail", "a little girl parading around my living room in a mermaid costume", and that my tail isn't a "serious" tail. It's very hard to forgive and forget such statements and I think I internalized them.

The person who said that to you is now banned from the network and is generally seen as a jerk. Don't let the words of a pessimistic a-hole cloud your love for your tail.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I actually HAVE posted on Sea Shepherd's FB page as my mersona, as well as other activism pages on FB. I have always wanted the support of the orgs that I promote and agree with.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I was very excited when I first got my tail! I loved it at first sight. It's perfect for me, meets all my needs perfectly. The woman who made it made it specially for me and she worked very hard. I just wish others could love the open-fluked, monofin-less design as much as I do, it was like an answer to my prayers. I thought it was a brilliant, unique design. It just dawned on me several months ago when I say how excited everybody gets about realistic, expensive tails that I was perhaps wrong to think it was perfect. It's like I can't win, since if I say I honestly feel my tailmaker worked as hard as Raven, Jesse, Mike, etc., people would look at me crazy, since well, it's much less labor-intensive, obviously. I feel though that my tail is one of the most UNIQUE tails out there, as not only is the fabric pretty unique, so is the design. So many tails are designed strictly with swimming in mind, and many don't even give you a choice if you want a monofin or not, and some even say that a tail isn't complete without one. It's like if I act proud of what I have, I sound like I'm bragging and being elitist in my own way.

[Mermaid Fenicia]

As I'm disabled and without any money of my own, I've have made myself many fabric tails. That way I can have a lot of tails that really fits me (and other who wants to wear them at a poolparty) and there are much cheaper. The children that I've shown my clips to don't see me as a fat mermaidin a fabrictail, but they see me as a real mermaid, and that's what I want to be. ;)

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

Perfection is an ideal to pursue, not a finished product. No tail is ever going to be "perfect"... it just has to be right for you. Your beautiful glittery purple tail is right for you. Raina's sculpted tail is right for her. Raven's array of stunning tails are right for her. Merman Jesse's tails are right for him. And so forth and so on.

Also, Princess, you have shared meditation and abstaining from seafood with us... there are so many other topics out there to discuss or that need to be mentioned (I've got three or four ideas bouncing around in my head at this very moment) that you seem like you're limiting yourself. Sometimes I feel like you seem to be ignoring messages we send you (like my suggestion about the Twelve Kingdoms anime and its themes of asexuality, or some of the suggestions made in the "Ideas for landbound mer gatherings" thread or whatever its title was), even when those suggestions are on your side and tailored to your interests and foci, and that's honestly somewhat upsetting (not painful, exactly, but frustrating and maybe a bit demeaning) as well.

Finally, this does bug me (and not just you, Princess, but with a bunch of people and similar phrases), but making exclamations like "I swear to Poseidon" really isn't an expression of your faith in Poseidon (which might be an interesting topic for discussion, if you're looking for one), but a bit of an unintentional mockery. Swearing and peppering your sentences with statements like that not only offend those of us who take the "Thou Shalt Not Take The Lord's Name in Vain" commandment seriously because it's not a prayer or ritual or even wearing a trident or other holy symbol of Poseidon, it's making Poseidon a placeholder for the Judeo-Christian God in a manner that already has a whole commandment against it. That doesn't seem to represent Poseidon in any allowable way at all (sacrificing bones of eaten animals was the main method of ritual observances to Poseidon that we know of from Ancient Athens, but you could maybe skip pebbles every time you pass a body of water, or close your eyes and and do a quick meditation every time a storm or rain comes by, or some other ritual observance if you're actually a worshipper of Poseidon). It bugs me a lot, and while I accept it as amusing in manga such as "Oh My Goddess," that is a title, not an exclamation a living person makes on a regular basis. Please tone it down, and if you really feel the need for a phrase of ejaculation, maybe "I swear by the Deep Blue Sea" or some other statement might be less prone to giving offense.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

@Joy-I did see your message about The Twelve Kingdoms and will definately keep that anime in mind in the future, so thanks. :) I actually loved many of your ideas on the inclusive events thread and I'm sorry if my appreciation wasn't more obvious, so yeah, thanks for taking the time there. :)
I'm sorry if my "swear to Poseidon" statements are offensive to you, and if it bothers you that much, I will stop saying that here. I'm all for religious tolerance and understanding. I am not a true worshipper of Poseidon, yes, as in I don't literally believe Greek mythology to be true. Instead, I use water-related gods and merfolk as a symbol for my respect and love for the ocean and its creatures.
I guess I feel like I don't have much else to offer the community mer-related other than my meditation, activism, and writing, and that's what got me posting here in the first place. There are a lot of common conversations here that I have little or nothing to contribute to.

@Raina-Something that I think is a problem is I seem to have a hard time communicating how truly grateful I am for the support system I do have here, like I can't accept the validation I do get and am always seeking more. I think what it all comes down to is jealousy and insecurity. It's hard to see things clearly and objectively when jealousy and insecurity is clouding my judgment. It's hard to appreciate what I have when I perceive others as having more. It's a really ugly, evil emotion that only leads to destruction: destruction of friendships and self-destruction. It makes it difficult to be truly happy for others. At the end of the day, nobody but me and my Higher Power can remove the jealousy and bitterness I feel from my heart. The jealousy comes from a place of comparing myself to others, feeling like I can never measure up to other mers and truly fit in with the community. A misguided feeling of thinking of changing myself not for good reasons, just to fit in better and feel more comfortable. Yes, I can see why it is frustrating because it seems like nothing you guys say really clicks in the long term. I think ultimately it's my problem, and it's gonna be me who needs to work through it, as it seems like much of it is in my head. I think what I am most jealous and envious of has nothing to do with swimming ability or tail quality, but how well-liked say you and Iona are by the community. I want so badly for people to like and respect me, yet it seems I just turn people against me, because of my neediness and over-sensitivity. People like people who are confident, and confidence does not come easily to me. It's like it doesn't take much to lead me off a path of feeling more secure, such as the examples I shared before of newbies on the forum who apparently haven't read the back log of threads being surprised that I don't swim, or people describing fabric tails as "starter tails". I envy the thick skin some people have, and the level-headedness. I'm often too emotional and passionate of a person to see things clearly. I love, love, love you all, and please never think for a second that I don't appreciate you guys, but ultimately, I guess, when someone has a complex, there's no magic word someone can say to relieve them of it. At the end of the day, only I can stop myself from feeling this way.

[Spindrift]

@Kae-Leah: You're a mermaid and definitely a part of this community. I've never doubted that or even questioned it. I think this "eligibility" thing you've alluded to is all in your head. You have a tail and you love the ocean, what else could you be? I really don't care if you don't swim in your tail or that it's fabric. It's still a tail and I've never thought any less of you for it (or even noticed that it was a big deal, really). Keep up the great work. :)

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Thank you, Spindrift!!!! *Hugs*

[Merman Dan]

Agreed. It isn't a matter of THIS or THAT. We have vegans/special dieters and we have omnivores, we have polytheists and monotheists, we have a multitude of tail materials, we have tattooed mers and those without ink, we have the young and young-at-heart, we have those of varying sexual orientations/identifications, we have folks of all shapes, colors, and sizes. It is a matter of this AND that. I accept you and the causes you stand (swim?) for, so long as you afford me the same respect. :)

[Moonflower]

Agreed. It isn't a matter of THIS or THAT. We have vegans/special dieters and we have omnivores, we have polytheists and monotheists, we have a multitude of tail materials, we have tattooed mers and those without ink, we have the young and young-at-heart, we have those of varying sexual orientations/identifications, we have folks of all shapes, colors, and sizes. It is a matter of this AND that. I accept you and the causes you stand (swim?) for, so long as you afford me the same respect. :)

This. Exactly this. Agree 1000%.

[Winged Mermaid]

Agreed. It isn't a matter of THIS or THAT. We have vegans/special dieters and we have omnivores, we have polytheists and monotheists, we have a multitude of tail materials, we have tattooed mers and those without ink, we have the young and young-at-heart, we have those of varying sexual orientations/identifications, we have folks of all shapes, colors, and sizes. It is a matter of this AND that. I accept you and the causes you stand (swim?) for, so long as you afford me the same respect. :)

This!

[SilverSiren]

Agreed. It isn't a matter of THIS or THAT. We have vegans/special dieters and we have omnivores, we have polytheists and monotheists, we have a multitude of tail materials, we have tattooed mers and those without ink, we have the young and young-at-heart, we have those of varying sexual orientations/identifications, we have folks of all shapes, colors, and sizes. It is a matter of this AND that. I accept you and the causes you stand (swim?) for, so long as you afford me the same respect. :)

Also agree. And Kea-Leah? I read your artical about Asexuality and found it very interesting as I had no insight about such things, it stuck with me, and i discussed the article with my husband who was also very intrigued and interested in the matter. We live in a melting pot of different cultures, religions, sexual orientations, races etc, so we're really open about new things and curious. Your article gave me insight and knowledge to something I wasn't informed about as much I would like, now if I meet someone who is Asexual I can be more comfortable because I know what they mean and a bit how they feel. Knowledge is power, the power to be more understanding. Just wanted to say that, so you know that what you say, isn't going in one ear and out the other and that you do get through to people on a personal level.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Thanks everybody for your support!!! Just in case you guys are wondering where I got these feelings of self-doubt and inadequacy in the first place, it dawned on me that it really started bad several months ago when someone in the mer-community(no not Chris, not Aela, someone who I trusted and considered a friend, I will NOT name names!) told me my tail, and my attempts at tops and accessories especially, were cheap and amateurish, and that if I was serious about being a mermaid activist, I should upgrade to something more realistic and elaborate. I had worked hard on a photo shoot because she wanted to feature me in her e-mag, and she kept making me re-doing it till it met her very very high standards. She compared me unfavorably to the pro mers like Hannah, Raven, etc. The worse thing she said was that most would agree with her, but they're just too nice and polite to say so. In other words, she implied that any support and compliments I get aren't sincere and honest, just people telling me what I want to hear will behind my back saying and thinking otherwise. That really gave me a paranoid feeling, like I couldn't trust the validation I did get as sincere. I honestly thought at times that many in the community disliked me and would be glad if I left, though they would never say so to my face. See, there goes that literal-minded, over-sensitive, somewhat obsessive Aspie mindset. I believed every word she said, and took it straight to heart as she was somebody whose opinion I respected and trusted. I don't think the person who said it meant to be mean, but it really put me in a place where I felt the need to prove myself to the community instead of just "being" and having fun as a mer. It made me feel competitive and obsessive, desperate to keep up w/the Joneses.

[AniaR]

HEY INTERNET stop speaking for other people thanks :/ speak for yourself only.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

It IS a serious problem when people feel they speak for others when they may not be right about what others really think, especially if they're someone who you put your trust into. This was somebody who seemed to know a lot about what it takes to become popular as an activist or entertainer. I suppose when I talked about feeling pressured, I'm mostly thinking of her, not you Raina, not anybody else in this thread. She tried to mold me into something that I wasn't

www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1R0ih8hMdM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1R0ih8hMdM)
My YT vid got its first hate comment and dislike today, yay, but luckily it got deleted. It was some guy from Italy telling me to grow up, I'm not a real mermaid, I'm wasting my time, etc. It sucks that he's from one of my fave countries in the world, since Winx Club, one of my favorite animated series ever, is Italian and good ol' Italia is one of the few countries where it's illegal to boil lobsters alive, which is something I've been pushing for on my mer-page and I was so glad to see that there was an actual precedent for it.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I may regret this, but I was brave and responded to a certain somebody with the initials E.D. on his FB. I feel he doesn't understand that competition is a normal, healthy part of any business and he should not take it personally, and I told him that. I also pointed out that many cannot afford his tails but they can afford Stevi's and others. I'm one of those, I would never spend $500+ on what is essentially just a costume.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

OK, just asked to join a large FB group of Sea Shepherd supporters, hoping to connect w/some folks who share my views. You're right Raina, where I have posted, and will continue to post on activism FB pages as my mersona, I haven't joined a SS forum until now. Not everybody here shares my stance, so it will be lovely to chat w/some other folks who feel the way I do. :)

[MermaidNoveli]

Hello. My name is Stevi. Most of you know me as Stephanie, the owner of Fish Butts. Those of you that know me know that I'm usually a polite and positive person most of the time. Those of you that know me well know I can put up with a lot and it really takes a lot to push me too far. Well, I've been pushed over the edge. Recently, Eric Ducharme, the Mertailor, has been posting status updates bashing other tail makers for this and for that. And every time, literally, that he posts bashing other tail makers I hear from someone, whether it be a friend or a random loyal customer, that they think his comments are about me and my company. I truly don't care what he has to say about my company but he has no right to bash anyone for being a tail maker period. So today, again, I received a message from a friend that he had posted a new status, yet this time... people were disagreeing with him. I saw quite a few comments that expressed dislike for his words and they were instantly deleted! Then he deleted the entire post all together. This was the status update:


"The Mertailor Eric Ducharme: Alright. I try to keep my prices reasonable. It just ticks me off when I see someone is making a product from the same materials for pennies, I mean pennies. This is disgusting. Makes me sick to my stomach."


I do not care if this comment is directed towards me or not but I am sick of them, who ever they're meant for. It's rude. It's disrespectful. It's starting drama and not only that it's supposed to be his business page. Where he advertises things related to his business. Not his personal feelings, especially when they're negative towards another tail maker. And he deletes anyone that doesn't fully agree with him so no one has a voice without his say. His product is worth the price he asks for it. His silicone tails are phenomenal. Not everyone can afford things in that price range, but that doesn't mean he should bash other tail makers for the prices they've chosen to sell their products at. He's had a loyal following for years and years, I don't believe he has any issue with losing customers. Small time tail makers are exactly that, small time. They may get big, they may not. But life will happen regardless. Eric is being extremely disrespectful as a business man and I, frankly, am tired of no one who seeks to defy him or stand up for themselves when it comes to their 11 month wait for their tails with empty promises and outright lies being heard. I'm by no means trying to bash Eric's company. He has an amazing product. I am, however, trying to bring to peoples attention that Eric is well... a horrible business person.


The following is the evidence for my case. Like I said, this is NOT meant to start drama. I just felt my experience should be shared and people should know what was said.

After I saw his post and then that he deleted it I decided I wouldn't be quiet in the corner any more. I posted a status of my own on his wall. Here's what I said:

"Hello Eric, let me start by introducing myself. My name is Stevi, some know me as Stephanie, and I am the owner of the mermaid tail company, Fish Butts. Recently I've noticed a lot of complaining from you about other tail makers. More recently, the post about a new tail maker selling tails of the same materials as yours for "pennies". First off, I would like to say I will NOT be bullied by you. And if somehow this comment was directed toward another tail maker, they WILL NOT be bullied by you either. I will see to that. You are not the only tail maker that makes silicone tails and you have no right to bash another tail maker simply because their tails are a cheaper price than yours. I can sell my tails at whatever price I please. You are not in charge of this industry, by far. You will not bully me and you will not bully anyone else from behind a computer screen. Be an adult Eric. This is ridiculous."

A few mintures later I received an email message from Eric. I wasn't at all friendly with him due to the fact he lied directly to me. He said he had no idea who I was but at that very same moment his boyfriend sent a message to the Fish Butts page. My business page. I was in fact very angry. Those of you that know me know that cussing is a part of who I am. I am always very professional, but not when I'm disrespected. The following is my conversation with this boy:



http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/211664_100000837004983_530015396_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/matthew.ryanchristopher)3 hours ago
Matthew Ryan Christopher Quijano (http://www.facebook.com/matthew.ryanchristopher)

I would just like to let you know that posting on someone else's Fanpage on Facebook does not make you the bigger person, especially when you stir up drama when you're not even the subject of their attention. First, learn your manners, Secondly, if you think someone has an issue with you or your company, why don't you ask them instead of making a fool of yourself and posting on their fan page. This isn't high school, even though some of those MerNetwork losers don't know the difference, but as a business owner you should. This isn't me threatening or trying to insult you, this is me giving advice. If you choose not to listen to it that is your choice but every action has repercussions.





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/187867_450929071596798_2018317798_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/fishbuttsforsale)3 hours ago
Fish Butts (http://www.facebook.com/fishbuttsforsale)

Aw! You're Eric's little boyfriend! How cute. DO NOT [CENSORED] WITH ME!





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/211664_100000837004983_530015396_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/matthew.ryanchristopher)3 hours ago
Matthew Ryan Christopher Quijano (http://www.facebook.com/matthew.ryanchristopher)

Ok you [CENSORED], let's play. Your tails are garbage. Your company is a joke and you only make yourself look stupid when you actually say your the owner of a company called "Fish Butts", you and your loser associates are nothing more than wannabees in P.O.S. tails. So when you actually have common knowledge and know how to create a proper prosthetic, THEN you can talk. Until then have fun looking like a fool and never succeeding at anything you pathetic piece of [CENSORED].





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/211664_100000837004983_530015396_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/matthew.ryanchristopher)3 hours ago
Matthew Ryan Christopher Quijano (http://www.facebook.com/matthew.ryanchristopher)

Go drink the Kool-aid with the rest of your MerNetwork friends.

[CENSORED].





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/187867_450929071596798_2018317798_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/fishbuttsforsale)3 hours ago
Fish Butts (http://www.facebook.com/fishbuttsforsale)

lol You're so cute! You think you're older than me! AW!!!!! [CENSORED] idiot. Go play with your blocks.





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/211664_100000837004983_530015396_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/matthew.ryanchristopher)2 hours ago
Matthew Ryan Christopher Quijano (http://www.facebook.com/matthew.ryanchristopher)

No I don't, dip[CENSORED]. You're like 40. Congratulations.








This is me. I wont apologize to anyone for it. This was not a business transaction. I would never speak like this to a customer, or any person of importance really. This man called me a word that crossed the line. I don't care who you are. You do NOT call a woman that word! EVER! For any reason.

Any ways. Also attached below, happening simultaneously with this conversation, with Eric himself. Again, please forgive my expressed anger.



Eric Jonathan Ducharme

Stevi,

Thanks for posting on my facebook page wall. Listen sweetheart, I do not know you or who you are and honestly never heard of you until wrote something on my page. If you make tails, that is fantastic. Good luck, I wish you nothing but luck and success.

- Eric





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/186197_100000049105318_1974631342_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/stevi.summers)3 hours ago
Stevi Summers (http://www.facebook.com/stevi.summers)

What ever Eric. You can play dumb all you want. You're too young to get one over on me and I'm by far not stupid. I know you deleted a bunch of comments and the post. I had absolutely nothing against you but you better believe I do now. Even if that comment wasn't directed toward me, you have NO RIGHT to bash other tail makers openly like that on your page and when people try to disagree with you, you delete their comments. I see that you not only deleted my comment but you blocked me. Don't worry, I already shared it with the mermaid world.Screen shots and cameras are wonderful things. You're nothing but a school yard bully who thinks he runs this industry but I've got news for you dear. I will surpass you in quality of product and I already have surpassed you in customer service. Grow up Eric. You're only 22. You've got SO much to learn little boy. I'm so over your drama and so is everyone else.





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/static-ak/rsrc.php/v2/yo/r/UlIqmHJn-SK.gif3 hours ago
Eric Jonathan Ducharme

I have definitely seen who is the responsible and mature one in this conversation. I am sorry you think these things. Best of luck to you. Have a great evening.





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/186197_100000049105318_1974631342_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/stevi.summers)3 hours ago
Stevi Summers (http://www.facebook.com/stevi.summers)

Oh ok Eric, just keep telling yourself that. I know all about your horrible customer service, taking MONTHS to deliver tails, refusing to fix tails you clearly were responsible for the errors in. I've fixed some of your tail errors. You are not better than anyone. Just know that.





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/186197_100000049105318_1974631342_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/stevi.summers)3 hours ago
Stevi Summers (http://www.facebook.com/stevi.summers)

And now I know those comments were directed at me. Your little boyfriend emailed me. Nice. You're both children.





http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/static-ak/rsrc.php/v2/yo/r/UlIqmHJn-SK.gif3 hours ago
Eric Jonathan Ducharme

Stevi,

Honestly, you're not one of my clients so you cannot make factual judgements about my products. Listen, I am not picking a fight with you. I do not even know who you are. I am a very busy man and have a lot of my plate at the moment. I do not have time for this negative energy. I simply told you you have a good evening and wished you the best of luck.









I am now blocked from Mertailor's facebook and I can't see but was told my comment was deleted. He is disrespectful. I've heard beyond awful things about him and I'm fed up. He does NOT run the Mer-Community or have a monopoly on tail making. He's got a big head and a fat wallet. I'm done holding my tongue. I will give an honest, deserving opinion when I am asked about the Mertailor.
As I said, this is not meant to start drama, this is meant to inform. I'm tired of him not being called out as he should. The public should be aware of this bullying. And it's exactly that, BULLYING. It's ridiculous, if nothing else.

I am now finished with this rant, which I guess is all that it is. But I felt I should be heard.

Thank you everyone, for your time.

[Mermaid Annariea]

5626

we love you stevi. your tails are wonderful, and all you are going to do is improve. im so glad i waited and researched tailmakers, because i couldnt have chosen anyone better to make my tail than you. i can already guess that its going to be perfect.
we all know the truth about him, all the horrid customer service and the lengthy waits for tails. you far surpass that.

[MermaidIvy]

Stevi, You are better than him by far. Your tails are amazing. Just like Brianna said, I'm glad I waited and researched tailmakers, because I can already tell my Fish Butt will be perfect.
Im currently working on an order with you right now, and You're very friendly unlike the mertailor. And I'm sure that I will not have to wait 5+months for my tail to be shipped!

[lynsea]

I saw that little comment of his get posted last night, read a few of the offending comments, and knew exactly what was going to happen.

[SilverSiren]

The more I know about him the more I think we need to also petition to have him mentally evaluated by a Dr and get serious help too. I'm not one to focus on negativity, I LIKE being happy and seeing the world in a good light and giving people the benefit of the doubt, but the ugly is hard to ignore sometimes. Nothing makes me mad, its VERY hard to insult me or make me feel bad or angry, but when I see people treating others with such nastiness... I just feel my blood boil! I publicly humiliated a guy once for kicking a pigeon, that's the kind of person I am. I believe that everything has just as much right to a happy healthy life as I do, including animals, and I'll give anyone a peice of my mind when they violate that. I'll always stick up for people, fight to the death for a friend, take a hit for a loved one. If there is anything I could do to help, let me know.

[Delilah]

as a beginner tail maker myself, I see all tailmakers as artists who create their own special art. Everyone makes different looking mermaid tails. I have mermaid friends who have purchased tails from many different makers because they want a tail made by that person. Its like a pair of heels, you can have 20 pairs but oooh these are louis vuitton and those pair are louboutin. what i'm getting at is he isn't the only fish in the fishbowl and he needs to get his head out his butt.

no his prices aren't reasonable if someone can make a better tail that actually fits and is swimmable for half the price.
and it should make someone sick to their stomach that he is selling a tail for 2x the price using the same material as a maker who sells it for "pennies"

not everyone can afford a thousand + dollar tail, not everyone wants to . I would love to have one of Raven's tails but right now I need to eat so i'm settling for something not as nice but that I can afford. Fishbutts is affordable and does quality work, mertailor is expensive and a game of chance.

I make my tails very similar to fishbutts but my style is very different, so whoopity doo!

I have even recommended Fishbutts among other tail makers to people if they like my prices but not my style.

I recently spoke to an up and coming mermaid magazine publisher and spoke high praise of Raven and talked them out of mertailor.


Sadly Eric will still be popular, his tails look great and he is everywhere now. It's sad that he doesn't feel the average joe deserves the same quality as hollywood. His behavior is wrong and disgusting but it wont stop him, people will still buy his work because its out there and all over youtube.

Best we can do is keep up to date with letting people know what they are getting into when buying his work. dont get me wrong, i do love his tails, mer queens was fabulous but his behavior and customer care is disgusting.

his boyfriend attacking people is childish and if Eric knew how to handle a business, which he does not , he would put a stop to that.

If Eric has a problem that makes it hard to communicate then maybe he should not be posting and get someone to represent the mertailor and post for him.

Eric is a child running a huge business abusing people who love his work.

He is slowly poisoning the mermaid pool, soon there will be no place left for him to swim, all the people that support him will get hurt and he will be alone.

[Mermaid Annariea]

his arrogance is astounding.

[SilverSiren]

as a beginner tail maker myself, I see all tailmakers as artists who create their own special art. Everyone makes different looking mermaid tails. I have mermaid friends who have purchased tails from many different makers because they want a tail made by that person. Its like a pair of heels, you can have 20 pairs but oooh these are louis vuitton and those pair are louboutin. what i'm getting at is he isn't the only fish in the fishbowl and he needs to get his head out his butt.

no his prices aren't reasonable if someone can make a better tail that actually fits and is swimmable for half the price.
and it should make someone sick to their stomach that he is selling a tail for 2x the price using the same material as a maker who sells it for "pennies"

not everyone can afford a thousand + dollar tail, not everyone wants to . I would love to have one of Raven's tails but right now I need to eat so i'm settling for something not as nice but that I can afford. Fishbutts is affordable and does quality work, mertailor is expensive and a game of chance.

I make my tails very similar to fishbutts but my style is very different, so whoopity doo!

I have even recommended Fishbutts among other tail makers to people if they like my prices but not my style.

I recently spoke to an up and coming mermaid magazine publisher and spoke high praise of Raven and talked them out of mertailor.


Sadly Eric will still be popular, his tails look great and he is everywhere now. It's sad that he doesn't feel the average joe deserves the same quality as hollywood. His behavior is wrong and disgusting but it wont stop him, people will still buy his work because its out there and all over youtube.

Best we can do is keep up to date with letting people know what they are getting into when buying his work. dont get me wrong, i do love his tails, mer queens was fabulous but his behavior and customer care is disgusting.

his boyfriend attacking people is childish and if Eric knew how to handle a business, which he does not , he would put a stop to that.

If Eric has a problem that makes it hard to communicate then maybe he should not be posting and get someone to represent the mertailor and post for him.

Eric is a child running a huge business abusing people who love his work.

He is slowly poisoning the mermaid pool, soon there will be no place left for him to swim, all the people that support him will get hurt and he will be alone.

Well said, I agree.

[Ashe]

It's amazing that he can get away with all this crap. i know for a fact that half, if not more, of the people commenting praise and congrats on his facebook page have no idea what his tails are actually like. They make assumptions from video, pictures and reviews that were most likely WRITTEN BY HIS WORKERS. This is the type of person i was talking about in my Introduce Yourself thread. Even though he calls himself a mer, i will never accept him as one because it does not come from the heart. And how DARE his little boyfriend call us on Mernetwork LOSERS?!?!?!?! This is a wonderful place where REAL mermaids can get together and share stories, ideas, and make friends. There are mers all over the world, so the only way we can really talk is through internet. HE makes ME sick!!!

And then you realize:
He will never change
He will still be supported
Great mers will still be lured into his clutches by his pretty little website and photoshopped pictures, just to be torn down because of an innocent opinion.

[Raayvhen]

I posted a bunch of links to bad mertailor reviews and within 5 minutes everything was deleted and I was blocked.

Brilliant business.

[Delilah]

a normal business person would better them self from their bad reviews, use them as a way to learn so they can look back and say "yeah, that was bad but I no longer do that and bettered my company because of it"

[Delilah]

so if he is online 24 hours then who is making the tails? monkeys? monkeys probably would do it better..

[Raayvhen]

Just in case anyone missed it on the thread I started, I opened a fb page for good and bad mertailor reviews. http://www.facebook.com/MertailorsRealReviews

[Ayla of Duluth]

I think a good way to deal with him deleting our comments is to post all this iinformation about him on pages that he can't modify. I know AniaR posts stuff like this on her Facebook page, I'm starting to post it on mine, and I'll post it on my mer website. The more places we post it, the more likely it is to be seen by his mermaid fanatic fans who browse the Internet looking at mermaid stuff. I have a certain fan on my Facebook who is very good anoint spreading the word and keeping all the other mers and their fans up to date. We just need to do our absolute best to post these things on sites he's not in control over.

[Ayla of Duluth]

I know I'm not afraid to be attacked by him, I have my fans, I have you all here at mernetwork and I am generally Avery kind person and not one to get into petty wars. I don't think he'll be able to keep
me from growing as an entertainer or a future silicone tail maker. I will do my best to uniform everyone I reach but I won't stoop to his level of insulting and threatening.

[Raayvhen]

Just a note, the page I linked a couple posts up is linked to my personal facebook. He definitely can't modify that page.

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

Hey guys, look, I have not had any tail buying experiences at all yet, and it does seem that Mr. Quijano and Mr. Ducharme do need to re-evaluate their scheduling, time restraints, style, construction, fit, pricing, customer treatment and professional image/marketing pretty desperately. Also, stomping on someone else's tail is cruel and vile and should be responded to immediately. However, don't lose the message in your desire to promote a forceful attitude and impression... Stevi, you admitted just now that you find Eric's facebook messages irritating, and if you change the names and speakers, you might see how your message to him could come across as more of an attack than a focused argument designed to sway him to your way of thinking. This isn't to say that you don't have cause to be angry and upset, but you also need to think about what your goal is and what you're trying to do... otherwise you're going to make the whole conversation descend into a shouting match and name calling... as it did. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, and if you can sway and maneuver someone into your cause, then there's no need to fight and waste energy getting worked up. Yes, Mr. Quijano came across as utterly obnoxious, but he probably saw you as attacking his boyfriend, and all is fair in love and war, even if that doesn't make him very mature. Facebook is a very personal and very open atmosphere, and that is why so many things there get so messy... everyone can see something, take it as an attack, get offended and defensive by it, etc. In the future, it might be best to unfriend/unlike people like Mr. Ducharme instead of trying to make him take responsibility for his actions, so that you don't have to put up with his nonsense... because honestly, we can't MAKE someone take responsibility for anything... that drive has to come from within.

Also, Raina, do you mean "Tourettes"?

[Mermaid Arianna]

looking at his facebook page its all nice reviews and none of them say they had any problems at all, if his ego is getting in the way of his business and customer's happiness maybe he should take a break from tail making to clear his head.
ok im done venting now

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

Raina, don't feel too bad... the Medical Dictionary of Free Dictionary does list a heading for "Turrets Syndrome" (though the actual article seems to say "Tourette") when googled. But yes, I like the idea of "Turret Syndrome" as well :)

Also, I wasn't saying that you guys were being unkind or anything... that's not the point. You are plenty able to be as angry and upset as you want. I just don't see much practical use for the words used (especially initially), because it seems like it would be "shooting yourself in the foot"... or in the tail, in this case. Yeah, they're jerks and while they might make some impressive products, their attitude and treatment of customers is all wrong... particular in this economy. It is very, very tempting to get angry with them and to attack them... and there's nothing really wrong with that, either. But I'm not sure there's all that much that is RIGHT about it. If Eric and Matthew are going to be that rabid about arguing back, you can't get the satisfaction of having a last word, you can't put them in their place, and you can't tear them apart (at least not visibly, on facebook). It also seems like one you wouldn't get anything either... and it costs you by making you worn out, frustrated, upset, hurt, and so forth. Everything you guys have said about the Mertailor and his boyfriend are very likely true (again, I can't compare that due to my own nonexistent experience) but I'm worried that you guys are just exhausting yourselves against creeps, for no gain... and I'd much prefer to have you all focused on how to enjoy yourselves as mermaids and tailmakers, rather than getting worn out and hurt and upset.

I hope you don't think I'm criticizing you or your attitudes... I believe I am on your side... I just don't want you to waste your energy on someone not worth your time, especially if it plays into his hands (every time you post on his page, all your friends/liker and all of his will see at least some activity, and if he deletes negative comments as quickly as he has been, that'll possibly just result in bigger attention for him). Besides, killing people with kindness is much more satisfying (because it drives them into frothing crazy wrecks) than fighting with them, and manipulating them while maintaining the appearance of utter politeness and propriety is a much greater "win" than trying to browbeat someone who seems un-browbeatable.

[Merman Dan]

Relax... take a deep breath... now take another. What has happened is now in the past. You cannot change the past. Put the past behind you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WVoC_CJbow


I’m sorry that there seems to be an “edition wars” (pardon the RPG terminology) of sorts between the tail-makers and their fans/clientele. Truth be told, Mertailor tails are beautiful creations but I cannot speak for their durability, fit, or comfortability as I have never worn one. With his particular price point, he seems to cater to a more exclusive customer; Weeki Wachee mermaids, PotC-type actresses, models, and the like. That suits me just fine.


That leaves Fish Butts and other tail-makers who sell their wares for “pennies” (yeah, I chortled there) to cater to the rest of us, the Weeki Wachee wannabes, the PotC fanbase, and those who enjoy sharing their tales and tails on the internet, at public gatherings, at parties, and more. Again, that suits me just fine. There are far more of us, than the others.


To be honest, while I know there was a heated exchange, I would hold off on any derogatory language as it could be misconstrued as slander. Then lawyers would get involved and we’d all have to buy our tails from Eric anyway. Do what I do, when someone slights or insults me; I call them a “filthy human” under my breath and, rightfully or not, feel the better person for it. Without pointing fingers or naming names, you can’t “polish a turd” in situations such as these.


Let’s be clear, here, while I have always been a citizen of the sea, I joined MerNetwork in June. Through Facebook, I knew of Merbellas. Through Google I had learned of the Mertailor.


After joining MerNetwork I learned of Mermaid Parties/Fish Butts. I followed Stevi’s work via Facebook and learned quite a bit in the process. I have chatted with her via Facebook and here at MerNetwork. Though the time has been brief and regardless of the fact that she is now working on two tails for me (one for me and one for my youngest daughter, Mermaid Coralina) I count Stevi amongst my friends.


Eric is a unique soul to be certain, and I respect that. But Stevi is “family”. :)

[NerineArcticMermaid]

:doh: Could we just make the forum private so those who shall not be named cant read it?

[Kanti]

I think Fish Butts is a great company!
I didn't quite read the entire conversation but right when I saw the whole "your company is terrible and your tails suck"
stuff I figured it was a waste of time.

I wouldn't let them get to you, it just seems like internet bullying at this point which isn't fair. At least you can think of
it this way, if they took the time to message and harass you about your business, you must be pretty intimidating to them.

Keep doing what you're doing, there will always be nay-sayers. The Mertailor hasn't exactly been the nicest person but
I think you're better of ignoring him and his affiliates if they're bullying you.

[Mermaid Celissa]

...Hi Stevie! If it makes you feel any better, I started sketching a tail design for a tail I'll be ordering from you (most likely) during the holidays :).

I totally agree with everybody. Mertailor is HORRIBLE. He was all goody-two-shoes to me on my old email, I'll copy/paste...

Abby,


Thanks for your email.



Thank you for taking the time to write me. I am truly sorry to hear what you have been going through. I understand. My Father had a stroke on New Years and had spinal surgery about a month ago. There is some perminant damage. He is making a slow recovery, but he is getting his feeling back, etc. It is going to be a good recovery. I also live with Tourette's Syndrome. It is not as significant as your situation, however, I can understand the way it has effected you.

You can do anything in life as long as you tell yourself that you can. Anything is possible.

Soooo....yeah. He just explained all about his issues and problems because I had asked if I could use one of his tails with my several conditions (before I read Raina's WONDERFUL review!). He actually used about one brief sentence after that to answer me.

As for the silicone tails, they are too heavy for you.

BAH. Rant over.

[Mer Vee]

It seems to me as if somebody is upset about the recent expansion of competition in the mermaid tail marketplace (http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l636/Mer-Vee/?action=view&current=HitlerHatesTheRecentExpansionOfCompetition InTheMer.mp4).

[MermaidBonnie]

You are very wise and must be a wizard of sorts.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Something that I'm trying to work on is appreciating the support system I have here. It is really hard for me to communicate sometimes my appreciation, I think because when someone has self-doubts ultimately nothing sometimes anyone can say really helps. I want the people in the community to know that I DO honestly love and appreciate them. *Hugs*

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Raina asked if I'd rather have a more realistic tail I could walk in. Well, the thing is there doesn't seem to be such a thing. Two very respected tailmakers said they couldn't easily make a tail that is both realistic and walkable, it's practically an oxymoron haha. There have been threads here giving some really interesting ideas, but I think something about me that stands in my way is I am VERY craft-phobic. I do not like to paint or glue or such, and yes I guess I stand in my own way there as I'm just so craft-phobic as I don't want to even attempt crafts on my own. I honestly do love my tail, as you can see from my belated review, but I wouldn't mind sprucing it up a bit. The tail body is great as is, as the holographic fabric is beautiful, sparkly, and looks more scale-like than most other fabric patterns other than those like MagicTail that are made to be scaly but the fluke is a big pain to situate in pics and is made from the same fabric as the rest of the body, and I like the vein pattern thingy on tails like MagicTails, LO's, Taylor's, Hannah's, etc.. I'm a BIG fan of painted fabric and neoprene tails, such as Hannah's, Citrine's, Taylor's, LittleOrca's, etc., as I feel they're some of the most original and artistic tails around. I like realism, but I also love creativity and artistry in mermaid tails. If my fluke was more realistic(easier to situate/stiffer and had a sort of vein pattern painted), it would be pretty close to my dream tail.

[AniaR]

KL you've made 5 posts in a row... it might be time to start your own thread on th etopic perhaps? I dont think it's really drama ;)

[deepblue]

On one hand, I can completely understand why Stevi would want to post this here and let people know about this, from that point of view.

On the other, Mertailor seems a little obsessed with Mernetwork, and for all his protestations, he continually brings up his competition for no reason, he starts all this drama himself, but then everyone feeds into it. Everytime he gets attention from his crap, it resets his clock, so to speak.

I learned I'd not deal with him from the way he communicated on his page, before I registered here and saw how much worse he could be, he'd already given himself enough rope. Keeping stuff about him to the reviews would help everyone just move beyond the bs he and his bf seem to thrive on. No one is going to 'shut him down' and I don't mean business wise, because he loves this back and forth. So I wish people would stop feeding his drama mongering.

And that's all I'm saying about him or it.

[Mer Vee]

You are very wise and must be a wizard of sorts.No, I am merely a humble vessel through which mischief flows. Incidentally, this was first made for Shelly, when she was being attacked. I don't think those two like me anymore, though :p

[NerineArcticMermaid]

I tried one to get him to see how his behavior was idiotic.. but I ended up with nice long messages on fb..i think I shared them with you on ce raina ...
Ill have to age about the so.. he's got a huge one.. saw if everytime he walked by my table at merpalooza
Not sure how to deal with a person like him.. but I flat out refuseed to speakl directly to him

[Blondie]

This is what I feel like every time I see posts/threads like this...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/rage1.png


So let me explain...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/paintsucks1.png
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/paintsucks2.png
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/fixedomg.png
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/paintsucks4.png

Sorry if I'm breaking the rules here but, I'm going to be an American right now and use my freedom of speech if you don't mind...

[Ashe]

Love it, Blondie! You go!

[Mer Vee]

This is what I feel like every time I see posts/threads like this...There is another Skywalker....

Incidentally, the caption on one of them says "Fist Butts". Oh my.

[Blondie]

There is another Skywalker....

Incidentally, the caption on one of them says "Fist Butts". Oh my.
OMG XDDDDDDDDDD Ahhh I'm going to fix thaaaaat

Edit: And done. Sorry for trying to make a porno out of that x-X

[Prince Calypso]

OK usually i try to not get caught up in anything protaining to Eric because even though he has been proven to be an asshole i have respect for his work.
Not Him! His Work!
but this is utterly backbite-ish and cruel and vile. what kind of person bashes on other people's product. truthfully Eric's tails are fucking beautiful and at one point i would have loved to own one but after this fuck him seriously
Stevi Sweetheart, let me tell you something before i went to you to get a tail about a year or so i had come into a bit of money from a deceased relative. it had turned out to be just enough to afford a mertailor tail
Eric never returned any of my messages about inquiries or suggestions for the design of my tail so i spent my money somewhere else
then i came across you and you were patient and understanding and answered all my questions quickly and kindly and you mad me a beautiful tail
I LOOK BOMB AS FUCK IN MY TAIL TOO THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
so you will and always do have my full respect and support
Along with Merman Jesse who offered to make me tail at half his normal price
and Raina who has always been so nice to me
and Raven who is just as great a tail maker as Eric is if not Better
how dare he try and slander you or any other tail maker out there. that's not professional and that's not mature

yes there has and most likely always will be drama on Mer-network, usually concerning Eric but What community doesn't have its problems and disagreements?
and for that little Queen Eric calls a boyfriend to insult you the way he did it just proves what everyone thinks about them
i'm honestly so pissed off right now i'm seeing red
fabulous glittering bloody red

it can't believe this, just when i was kinda regaining a semblance of respect for Eric and think he had out grown all the drama
then he does something like this

[Prince Calypso]

Stef, part of this I copied from another thread because I feel it still applies...

I see he deleted the offensive post and all the comments. (or hid it from timeline)

The thing with Eric, is he thinks we're all against him. That we are waiting and urging him to screw up, that we want to ruin him. Even I dont want that! I just want the guy to be ACCOUNTABLE and stop cheating so many people and treating people like crap. I honestly have found his behaviour and the behaviour of his current partner to be quite abusive- and when someone is being abusive you need to stand up regardless of drama. Sincerely, if the guy contacted me, genuinely wanted to see past our differences, and I saw him make a REAL effort to be better to the community... I'd be fine. The problem is- he tries to do this occasionally, half heartidly, then he starts to get paranoid, then he turns on people before they can turn on him (as I believe he sees it). I've given the guy a million chances, and in the past I have REMOVED my reviews and videos so people would judge him on the work he does NOW not the work he did then. but the problem is, he is STILL doing to people, what he did to me.

The way you were spoken to was not okay- and the way Matthew speaks to people is borderline illegal. He threatens. He harasses. And it's time it was put to a stop. He did the same thing to me. Eric doesnt know how to act professional on his page- he never has- he never will. He doesn't understand the concept. Matthew thinks he's helping by rushing to his boyfriend's side when really he's ruining his business image. I wonder what Eric's re-accruing clients would think if we sent them a petition to not hire him again with all these things as evidence? I think it might just need to be something that's done! (read away eric, you bring these things on yourself).

I wonder if Eric realizes one of the number one things that drives mernetwork membership- is people having terrible experiences with him. We get so many people who join because they need help with their mertailor tail, or because they need to put pressure on him.

Im not going to eggshell walk anymore if you guys wont. Im going to say it like it is. Matthew (eric's boyfriend) stomped all over a tail makers work at mercon, on purpose. He went out of his way to bother that person, and that person was the bigger person and ignored. Everyone complained about mertailor's group shooting people dirty looks and being generally nasty. I believe the ONLY reason Eric even went is because he paid all that money to be voted best tail maker. He thought he could stick up his nose as the community.

Something else you all should know? Eric has turrets. He's told me himself. I have it in email. This isn't libel- he's publicly disclosed this many times. With turrets, as this is something I deal with in my professional field... the individual can very frequently be immature for their age, seriously paranoid, unable to grasp concepts like critical thinking, and have big emotional mood swings. Eric was bullied his whole life, and now he's the bully. In other words, we need to stop expecting eric to change. Eric will not. We have to change how we handle him.

Stef, you're not the only person Eric has attacked, he attacked the father of all tail making- Thom Shouse- by saying his tails look like sleeping bags. You know what's hilarious? I found an interview from when Eric was like 14 where he was in constant contact with Thom Shouse to learn how to make mermaid tails. Many of his colour designs like the popular koi one- were done by Thom in the 90's. He's also attacked merman Jesse last year on FB during the mer-con for "copying/stealing" his design when Jesse made a tail for Gary. If you look further back, before Raven was a tail maker Eric sold her a terrible tail on purpose, admitting he made it so out of spite, because he believed she was making tails behind his back. At the time Raven wasnt making tails and had no desire to make tails. You better believe she did after that. He went after Mermaid Shelly, and it still blows my mind that Chris forgave him (to spite me basically, which, I dont care)

He is an abusive person and before you know it- everyone is going to know it. He's going to piss off the wrong person. When he pissed off mermaid melissa she made his life a living hell- he almost lost his house from lack of business. He can't constantly act this way and never have anything come back at him. It's all a game of patience. You see the way he acts, people don't get far.

I encourage ANYONE who has had a bad experience with mertailor either in communication like this, or in product to contact me. I can post your issue anon on tumblr so people can still see it- and he can't attack you.

Id also report ALL of Matthew's Comments so he'll get a little FB ban, same with Eric.

Sorry you're on this end of this Stef, so many of us have been there. <3

THANK YOU!!!!!

[Prince Calypso]

This is what I feel like every time I see posts/threads like this...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/rage1.png


So let me explain...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/paintsucks1.png
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/paintsucks2.png
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/fixedomg.png
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/Sliver_Shine29/paintsucks4.png

Sorry if I'm breaking the rules here but, I'm going to be an American right now and use my freedom of speech if you don't mind...

*look of awe*
as i gay man i can say this with complete confidence
I LOVE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW!!

[AniaR]

Blondie... I love you

[Mermaid Annariea]

blondie, that was great. someone should post that on the mertailors wall xD
or maybe not. that might cause more drama...
oh, and youre super pretty.

[Sea Pearl]

That was great Blondie!
Maybe Eric might have already seen it if he searches through this forum no-stop.

[Raayvhen]

I'm actually surprised he hasn't tried to do anything about the group I started.

[MermaidBonnie]

Blondie you're funny.
I myself am not the smartest in the world, but....
If you don't like the guy, then why go on his page and make comments?
Ignore him if you don't like what he has to say.
I'm willing to bet $50 he wasn't referring to Fish Butts.
Stevi-did you go to the Mertailor's workshop in person? Did he show you his secrets to making his tails? Did Eric ever show you anything personally, expecting you to keep it confidential? Were you ever such good friends that he trusted you so much and put his career on the line by doing so? And then did you betray that trust, and use those "secrets" for your self-gain?
No, that was someone else.
And only that person has tails that actually look like his.
So his comments were not for you...unless he made that mistake twice and had you over to his studio and did all that for you as well.
But hey, I'm just an onlooker without a horse in this race.
BTW, I do have a mertailor tail and I did go through the delays and lack of communication when I got mine, as well as got it in the wrong size and had to go through the re-shipping process, as well as take my "new" tail to get repaired for holes once I did get it, so I have no reason to defend him. I'm just sayin.
Just be happy :)

[Mermaid Celissa]

...Raina wins.

[Ayla of Duluth]

...Raina wins.

of course she does. she's beast like that

[Ashe]

Like a Boss Raina, like a Boss.

[SilverSiren]

I'm sorry... I just have to... I can't resist an opportunity to make a funny...

5693
/\ Raina

[SilverSiren]

And Blondi? Damn girl. I hurt myself laughing. The last pic of you is just effing classic.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I'm just glad Eric and Matt haven't acted moi yet :P

[MermaidBonnie]

I'm not arguing. Raina, I agree with your quote. Don't believe what people who hate you say. What I'm referring to is what that person posted herself. No one else's words-hers. I didn't keep up with all she wrote, I honestly lost interest bc it was paragraph after paragraph of her writing on the old forum about meeting Eric, seeing his studio, learning how to make tails, being his buddy, their friendship breakup, and lots of other stuff that I don't care enough to remember bc I don't know her personally and I frankly don't and didn't care. No impact on my life whatsoever. But maybe that's not who it is directed at. For the record, bc of all that drama, I have just stayed away from that person bc I don't like drama. I dont hate her. Maybe its Thom Shouse that you suggested? I just know Fish Butts tails look nothing like his, so he couldn't be referring to them in my opinion, but hey, I could be wrong. I don't talk to the mertailor, go ahead and bash his business. Like I said, I didnt have the best experience with him either.

It's scientifically been proven that it is hard to be totally honest when you're trying to prove you're right and the other person is wrong. It's so easy to be the victim sometimes. I may have been at fault when I ordered my tail from him at first bc maybe I measured a bit incorrectly, since this was my first time. But I immediately returned it and got my new one-and after traveling to another continent and several countries, and three years, it's still an awesome tail. I remember back when I was having problems getting my tail, Raina that's when you were having problems with him bc he thought I was calling him and harassing him about YOUR tail. lol. I had no idea who he thought I was! I was so confused. But it was you. You were the out of country girl that had actually cut up your tail, removed the monofin, and expected him to take it back and give you a new one plus the extra expensive shipping of such a heavy item from out of the country. I didn't realize it till I saw your vids you posted on the old forum. I didn't say anything on his behalf bc I sympathized with you. You were so mad. I felt bad for you. I remember your plight, but you found support and friends to help you on here. That's what I like about these forums. Finding friends to help and share in this amazing mer-lifestyle. I have no problem with anyone on here. If I don't like someone, I will ignore them. I certainly won't go on their pages to see what they write about me or my friends, I got other things worth doing. The last forum for me got ruined by drama. Now if mertailor is going on YOUR page and writing things about YOU then that's different. But saying something vaguely on his page? To me, that's not worthwhile. This forum is better than that.

[Ayla of Duluth]

I don't think eric and matt see you as a threat Kae, you're not a tailmaker.

[Kanti]

I think Bonnie has a good idea xD
Whether or not Eric is aiming his posts towards someone specific shouldn't really matter. And
I don't really know who he was referring to either since Raven just started making silicone tails
for only $1,000 so it's a high possibility he was referring to her? Either way I don't think it should
matter.

In a way, by responding to him you're just sort of showing him how important he is to you rather than
showing him that his efforts at annoying you aren't working.

Why are ya'll watching his page anyway? I think if it steams you up so much maybe it'd be better for
your mind and health to just stop.

[Angel the Little Merman]

The more I hear and read about this character the more I get shocked by him and his boyfriend's actions and the fact he consider all of us as "losers" and it STILL amaze me that the fact they allow him to put his displays at the Mer-Palooza and the Mercon knowing there was tension in the room I love Raven's work, Jesse's work, I now love the work from Fish-Butts already like them on facebook funny how it was brought up early of him tailking to the tailman at a young age since back at the Mer-Paloza when I talking to the Tailman someone with REAL talent and more experience I hope you and your mate are reading this said that he couldn't stand you, yes I'm new and I'm just a rookie but I dealt with people like this person before in the theatre field and believe me they don't go far. The only thing I see from this is nothing more than a coward and his pet who is only afraid of the truth that lies before them! But what do I know I just "Puff the Magic Dragon" at least I'm loyal! Aw aren't I a doll!

http://toyxplosion.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Puff-the-Magic-Dragon-Plush-Toys-01.jpg

[Ashe]

Awww, i have a stuffed Puff Dragon too! When i first decided i wanted to be a professional mer, i swore that i would one of his silicone tails. NOPE! Now i want to take all of his "tails" and 'Work" and throw them in a firey abyss swarming with monsters. ...mean piece of poop who calls himself the epitome of the mermaid world...

[Angel the Little Merman]

"Epitome of the mermaid world"? Really? Woah! He really do love himself. Hey Eric and his pet don't attack I'm just saying.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I noticed on his official website he admits that his latex tails are "not for professionals" and just for "personal use/swimming", almost as if he's admitting that the $500+ tails aren't really top-quality. Not sure what to make of that, because on one fluke, he's being honest that are better-made tails available and that the client shouldn't expect true Hollywood SFX quality, but on the other fluke, it's like he's not even trying to make his latex/faux silicone tails the best they can be for the price point and instead perhaps slacking off on the lower-end realistic tail and putting all his creativity into the pricey true silicones. He doesn't even seem to offer custom paint jobs any more, while Fish Butts at a lower price point does. I also can't understand why he charges $350 plus shipping for the performance spandex tails. The fabric he's using costs only like $10-20 per yard on SpandexWorld and the difference in price between the basic and performance spandex is nearly $200. Yeah, he charges twice as much to add a zipper and maybe some other little touches, seems fishy to me. Not to stir more drama up, but I also noticed that some mers(not Raina or anyone who posts here regularly) who used to be notably critical of Eric and his work now are kissing up to him, which I find strange, to say the least.

[Blondie]

Thanks guys <3 I love you too.

And the fact that if you're not famous, you're probably not going to get a good tail. And he doesn't have a warranty on his tails, just shows you how confident he is in them...

[SilverSiren]

Aw aren't I a doll!

Yes, yes, you are. I saw the pics of you at Merpaloza and I thought you looked so ADORABLE! Very creative in my opinion. He was just bent that someone else had creativity, he's such a creep.

[SilverSiren]

Raina, your a wonderful woman. The way you articulate how you feel is intelligent, well thought out and respectful. I support you and respect you. Something I could never do for Eric unless he changed dramatically. I just can't respect someone who is just a big bully. A REAL artist has spirit, passion and a humility about their work... I see none of that in Eric. Every time I create something for a client I put so so so much time, effort, and PASSION into the creation, no matter how small. The way he treats some of his clients is insulting to me, I just can't understand why he can't put in that kind of passion, and not just for silicon tails and celebrity clients, but for every client that puts their TRUST in him to put a certain amount of effort and passion for them. As a artist... I'm disgusted of him. He's not an artist, he's a company fat cat, he's a manufacturer, he's a creep. It's like the difference between a original painting and a print of the same painting, one is beautiful to look at and can be appreciated for what it is, but the other you can feel the passion of the artist coming out in waves, every stroke of the brush, every thoughtful sigh, every sleepless night, making sure it's just right. Eric is just a printer, manufacturing lovely things, without soul.

[MermaidBonnie]

I hope it all works out ya'll.

[Winged Mermaid]

Admin mode: It's obvious to me that there needs to be some steam blown off. I think I'll leave this thread as is, as there are drama warnings and explicit warnings posted in the title. I've learned that if the steam can't vent in one place, it'll end up venting anywhere else.. usually all over the rest of the forum, on people's pages, ect. All I'll say about that.

[Winged Mermaid]

My personal views-


I noticed on his official website he admits that his latex tails are "not for professionals" and just for "personal use/swimming", almost as if he's admitting that the $500+ tails aren't really top-quality. Not sure what to make of that, because on one fluke, he's being honest that are better-made tails available and that the client shouldn't expect true Hollywood SFX quality, but on the other fluke, it's like he's not even trying to make his latex/faux silicone tails the best they can be for the price point and instead perhaps slacking off on the lower-end realistic tail and putting all his creativity into the pricey true silicones. He doesn't even seem to offer custom paint jobs any more, while Fish Butts at a lower price point does. I also can't understand why he charges $350 plus shipping for the performance spandex tails. The fabric he's using costs only like $10-20 per yard on SpandexWorld and the difference in price between the basic and performance spandex is nearly $200. Yeah, he charges twice as much to add a zipper and maybe some other little touches, seems fishy to me. Not to stir more drama up, but I also noticed that some mers(not Raina or anyone who posts here regularly) who used to be notably critical of Eric and his work now are kissing up to him, which I find strange, to say the least.

Well, what should give you an idea of how much he over charges is his other listings on his website. $50 for shell strand necklaces are bought from Michaels for $6. $40 for a shell bra that is 2 $3 shells, a few cents of hemp, and a few cents of paint.

But yeah.. I have spoken to multiple mermaids in person who said they had a bad experience with him, and a bad product. Then they go and write positive reviews for his page. I don't care if you like or hate your product, but at least sick with that instead of trying to people please.



And how DARE his little boyfriend call us on Mernetwork LOSERS?!?!?!?! This is a wonderful place where REAL mermaids can get together and share stories, ideas, and make friends. There are mers all over the world, so the only way we can really talk is through internet.

Him and Eric have said much worse about MerNetwork. It's no secret that he thinks of it as pretty much the bane of his existence.



I think a good way to deal with him deleting our comments is to post all this iinformation about him on pages that he can't modify.

That's why we created this site (aka the 2nd version) in the first place. He would go and threaten Yuku legal, and they'd come in to the forum and remove things, including reviews and even un related, such as forums on how to make a silicone tail (this was years before he even started putting out silicone tails). After it happened several times, we decided to move. He tried to take down the forums, and he did apologize to me for that, but after he said he had attorneys look at MerNetwork to "see what could be done". Luckily, that turned out to be that they could do nothing. FB you can report and have things taken down. Same with YouTube and pretty much any other public site. I'm just glad we've been able to create a safe place here.




I think Eric and the community could actually get along, I think he could like it here. But in my experience with him he has always held himself above the community, and it's going to take some humbling and sincerity before he'll ever be accepted among the majority. The mer-community isn't all "mertailor hate", it's "mermaid love". And I think he'd be much more happier if he got along with people. He could collaborate, come to meets, network more...

Despite what he or anyone else thinks, this site or the community is not "anti-mertailor". We're anti as*hole. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do, if you are disrespectful to people in the extreme ways that he has been in the past, and still is today, people aren't going to like you. That's just a fact of life.

In fact if Eric would take responsibility for his work, and make more of an effort (I do admit he has gotten better. At least mostly, up until recently :/) to turn out good products consistently (and of course turn things around to have good customer service), this forum could be amazing for his business! It could lift his business up to a whole new level! I mean, look at how well it's worked out for Stevi! I'd love to see that happen, but only when the day comes that those things happen.



[..] i have respect for his work.
Not Him! His Work!

I think Eric can be a great artist when he tries. He can create beautiful tails, and I don't deny that. A beautiful tail is a beautiful tail, regardless of who made it (a great quote from Raven actually). Like I said, if he would better his business then he could be an amazing sought after tail maker! But as it stands, he has two types of quality. One for fame-bringing tails, and the other for the average Joe.

It's my personal opinion that if he can't step up his business and make an equally well made product for every single customer he has, then he needs to step down from his business. I've seen how it can stretch him so thin that he just can't handle it, which is where all the badly made tails and lack of respect for his customers comes from. Like I said, he can make beautiful tails when he puts in the extra effort. I think he should either take limited orders (like Mike Van Daal and other tail makers do) if it IS something he loves to do- maybe even for just high end clients. If not, I really think he could be much happier concentrating on being a performer and/or a model. I know that he said he wanted to quit making tails and just do that, at one point, but he said the money was too good to stop. I think if something is stretching you so thin that these things keep happening consistently, you need to re prioritize. Obviously this frustrates him on a regular basis- in fact it's very obvious to the whole world, his FB fans and all. Is it really worth it? It seems like he may be sacrificing his real dream for something that is just making him miserable. After all his drive to make tails came from the drive to actually want to perform. I don't care who you are, no one would want to really live with that kind of trade if they had the chance. But then again I'm not him so I don't know how he really feels.



at the Mer-Paloza when I talking to the Tailman someone with REAL talent and more experience I hope you and your mate are reading this said that he couldn't stand you,

Thom has made it no secret that he does not think highly of Eric. Quite the extreme opposite, actually. Talking to Thom I was really shocked at things I heard regarding issues between the two of them.. it actually made me physically sick to my stomach. i just had to give him a big hug D:



"Epitome of the mermaid world"? Really? Woah! He really do love himself.

Haven't seen that out of his mouth, but he has and still does at times say his tails are the the "underwater Gucci".



Some people dont give two cents what Eric does, some people just would rather stay out of it, and some people just get sick of drama regardless of who is in it. I still think my question from earlier stands though. How exactly do we ignore Eric without enabling him to take advantage of people and hurt people? It's like the abuse parallel I made in another thread a few months ago... Is it really okay to walk on egg shells and try not to provoke a person and live our whole lives (or in this case run our community) avoiding blow ups and drama with Eric? Or is that simply creating an environment where that person is in basically ruling with their abuse and getting what they want because we just dont want to deal with their blow ups and the fallout in the community resulting from them? How do we draw the line? (this post obviously isnt just pointed at Bonnie, it's at everyone!) I mean, this is our community. People shouldnt HAVE to avoid the forum because they dont want drama, but I dont think they should have to ignore a tail maker either because they dont want to be bullied. So how do we make that reality on our end?


If anyone has any ideas, let me know. We've done a lot on the site, and with the users (like Matty) to try and balance things out, but of course not everyone is happy and things end up spiraling down anyhow. Best we can do is try and mark the drama with red tape and keep it all in one place, for the respect of other users who don't want to get involved. And the review systems help as well.

It's a tough line to toe, and a tough question to answer. I keep hoping he will improve on his end so things here can follow, but so far it gets a little better then completely back slides :(

[Princess Kae-Leah]

@WM, whoa boy, he sure sounds greedy! I knew he over-charged, but being the craft-phobe I am who hasn't set foot in a craft store in years I had no idea how much his accessories were over-charged. That is truly ridiculous. Let's see, Jesse says that it's fair to charge the cost of materials x2, that means he should charge around $12-15 for the shell tops(instead of $40), $12 for the shell necklaces(as opposed to $50). He could easily afford to use better-quality materials for what he charges, but he doesn't. What a freaking cheapskate! It really bugs me then that he goes and complains about how under-priced other tailmakers are, when it's actually the other way around: he's overpriced. I wonder if he charges what he does because he knows if he prices them fairly he'd get more orders, and he can barely handle the orders he has now. I mean, Stevi of Fish Butts admits to being up to her ears in orders, pretty much.

[Angel the Little Merman]

"Underwater Gucci" huh? My, my, my it's all really honkey "mermaid" glamour for him then and not for the art.

[Winged Mermaid]

As for the whole Raven thing.. Yes, Raven stole his latex and neoprene tail making technique. However, you didn't need to go into his studio to figure that out. Back before I bought my tail I messaged the only few people I know that had a tail to ask them for a review, since obviously there was no community and there were no reviews then. This was one of two responses I got back:




"Re: Mertailor Tails
05/06/09

i got the realistic tail
the tail i got was way to small and it took 6 months for him to make it .One side of the tail looked like a 4-5 year old had painted it , the tail had lots of sand in it, most of the stiches were stiking out and the fin hurt my feet . Don't buy one of the realistic tails.
love mermaid iliana

{Hi, this is Iliana's mum, I just want to back her up on this, the tail we ordered actually looked like it had been a used one that had been cut down to fit a short person or child, it was VERY sandy and the paint was worn and peeled. To be honest you could probably make one yourself. I think the white silicone stuff is actually bathroom caulking and the scale effect looks like a hammock net was layed carefully down in the silicone and ripped off before it set. For some reason this was not his best work and to top it off, on top of the hundreds of dollars we payed for this custom tail there was an import fee of about a hundred US dollars to get it out of customs. Sadly, not only was it tiny, Eric has made no attempt to return our emails.}"




(Wish I would have listened to her, by the way.) That Mom figured the scale technique and the material out on her own, just by looking at it.

That and Raven made all of ONE tail with that technique. She only used said tail a few months before she retired it, too. By then she moved on to casting and molding (early Jan 2011, as evidence by the tail named Buster and her white latex tail). As I understand it, Eric tried to do molds, but every time he tried the mold would break or some other technical issue would prevent him from doing it. Again, as I understand it, Raven actually helped him with the molds and the process. After that his molded silicone tails started coming out (late April 2011). Before that his silicone tails were silicone caulking with the old technique and more fluke texture (which, by the way, I hurt for the people who payed $2,500 for what are essentially his $600 tails now). After that their friendship crumbled again, and Raven gave up trying to be friends with him and moved on.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I'm just putting that out there. It's not like Raven started her own business right off, and she never sold a single tail with his technique and actually helped get him off the ground. They've helped each other out, and they've stolen from each other as well.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I feel bad for anybody who over-paid for his work

[NerineArcticMermaid]

Angel...he was NOT at mercon. while he was at merpalooza.... it would not be good business on our end to exclude... believe me..i would have moved for him to not have been there..i had to spend all day across the aisle from him.. strutting around with a half unbuttoned shirt like he was eye candy for the masses...

[AniaR]

*paid 1000$ usd (which was like 1200 CAD at the time) for her crappy tail*

[Angel the Little Merman]

Angel...he was NOT at mercon. while he was at merpalooza.... it would not be good business on our end to exclude... believe me..i would have moved for him to not have been there..i had to spend all day across the aisle from him.. strutting around with a half unbuttoned shirt like he was eye candy for the masses...

Well then my apologies for the mix-up. And he is not eye-candy, I'm sorry you have to dealt with that all day from across.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

*Hugs Raina* $1,000, really? At least he marked down the latex tails after that

[Winged Mermaid]

I paid around $1,000 as well. At least Bonnie and I ended up getting 2 tails out of it! We are the only ones to ever get replacement tails for his errors. At one time his latex tails were priced at $1,600 and there were people who bought them then, too.

[Mermaid Star]

Again, as I understand it, Raven actually helped him with the molds and the process.

I remember Linda helping him make the molds. She explained to me all the different ones she made and out of what materials. Some of which have not been used. But they are there. Though he will have to come up with new ones asthe old ones degrade from use as the masters were not saved. I learned about the dgradation of molds before making mine, so my master for my scales are saved. (Unfortunately my fluke master could not be. (I am thinking of creating one before it degrades too much however).

The great thing is that we can learn from this what not to do in our own businesses and through out our own projects.

[Mer_Adella]

I agree with that.
#1 if you delete people that want to warn others of your bad customer reviews that just shows that you can't take critosism very well or at all. A "customer review" box is supposed to let your customers tell you exactly what they think of your product. If you have bad reviews, READ THEM, FIX THEM, SAVE YOUR BUSINESS!!! anyone knows that its just good business that way.
#2 if you can't stand the competition, make yourself stand out in a POSITIVE WAY

[Prince Calypso]

My personal views-


I think Eric can be a great artist when he tries. He can create beautiful tails, and I don't deny that. A beautiful tail is a beautiful tail, regardless of who made it (a great quote from Raven actually). Like I said, if he would better his business then he could be an amazing sought after tail maker! But as it stands, he has two types of quality. One for fame-bringing tails, and the other for the average Joe.

It's my personal opinion that if he can't step up his business and make an equally well made product for every single customer he has, then he needs to step down from his business. I've seen how it can stretch him so thin that he just can't handle it, which is where all the badly made tails and lack of respect for his customers comes from. Like I said, he can make beautiful tails when he puts in the extra effort. I think he should either take limited orders (like Mike Van Daal and other tail makers do) if it IS something he loves to do- maybe even for just high end clients. If not, I really think he could be much happier concentrating on being a performer and/or a model. I know that he said he wanted to quit making tails and just do that, at one point, but he said the money was too good to stop. I think if something is stretching you so thin that these things keep happening consistently, you need to re prioritize. Obviously this frustrates him on a regular basis- in fact it's very obvious to the whole world, his FB fans and all. Is it really worth it? It seems like he may be sacrificing his real dream for something that is just making him miserable. After all his drive to make tails came from the drive to actually want to perform. I don't care who you are, no one would want to really live with that kind of trade if they had the chance. But then again I'm not him so I don't
know how he really feels.



I agree and i'm not trying to be an asshole of fallow the drama train, i simply don't agree with insulting other tail makers simply because your frustrated. there is no excuse for something so unprofessional. Also i dislike that every time someone has a problem with Eric his little pet has to come and insult demean and belittles people as well as this entire network. Mer-network is like a second home to me where i don't feel overly judged or seen as weird
even when i don't agree with other people or they don't agree with me
as the first person to make me a tail
Stevi has a special place in my little Mermaid heart
and insulting her... or any other tail maker just ruffles my scales

yes Eric is a talented tail maker and there is no denying that on any level
but even if i hit the lottery i will never have anything to do with him as a costumer
until he learns to be a bit more professional.

oh and just in case he has his little pet trolling the network and has something to say to me
come at me bro,
don't let this girly body and long hair fool you
i grew up in the hood and don't take no shit

[Prince Calypso]

I agree with that.
#1 if you delete people that want to warn others of your bad customer reviews that just shows that you can't take critosism very well or at all. A "customer review" box is supposed to let your customers tell you exactly what they think of your product. If you have bad reviews, READ THEM, FIX THEM, SAVE YOUR BUSINESS!!! anyone knows that its just good business that way.
#2 if you can't stand the competition, make yourself stand out in a POSITIVE WAY

i agree.

[AniaR]

oh and just in case he has his little pet trolling the network and has something to say to me
come at me bro,
don't let this girly body and long hair fool you
i grew up in the hood and don't take no shit

he was banned. he cant bother you here, thankfully

[Merman Dan]

Clearly this hullabaloo caught his eye, though. His latest post on Facebook: "
Check out one of our less expensive mermaid tails, our "Realistic Mermaid Tail" shown in red. You can purchase your very own today!"

[Patches]

I'm sorry, but I'm getting sick of everything he posts. That popped up on my wall the other day and I saw it when he posted it. HE NEEDS TO PULL HIS DICK OUT OF HIS ASS. I'm sorry that not everyone has 3,000 dollars to spend on a tail? I appreciate the tailmakers who make tails more afforable to full-time student merfolk like myself...

[Capt Nemo]

Back at it again I see......Same s%# differnt day!

[Blondie]

Back at it again I see......Same s%# differnt day!
This pretty much sums up this situation so perfectly.

[AniaR]

don't worry, we'll all be stoaked about his latest work! he says so! *rolls eyes*

but let's be honest- this isn't exactly nice either,,,



I think you must be doing a good job if so many people are feeling threatened.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Ugh, didn't know till today that you-know-who have a public FB page! :( Usually I'm more in the loop than this. I probably shouldn't say this on a public forum, but this is a person who only made my self-esteem issues worse than they already were.

[Ayla of Duluth]

i'm sorry, a what? an ich...i'm just gonna google it.

[Ophelia]

It basically means "fish-o-logical."

[Morticia Mermaid]

Wow. Just spent around an hour reading everything. To be honest, when I first found out about mermaiding I had heard the the mertailor was the best and was hoping to get my first tail from him. But then I started finding these really bad reviews about his tails, his poor customer service, not to mention outrageous pricing. It really put me off in regards to buying a tail from him. And now I see how he is treating other tail makers. Just starting out myself with very little funding, mainly making tails (cloth) for friends and friends of friends, it kind of worries and scares me a bit. I've had to put up with a lot to be as far as I am, specially a lot of studying. The last thing I want to have to worry about is if another tail-maker is going to start bashing my tails. I know they aren't the greatest, the most intricate or even that realistic looking. But just like everyone else, I am trying my hardest. And no one likes to hear another tail-maker talking crap about their work... Their art work, behind their back. It's extremely unprofessional and childish.

[AniaR]

he's trying to make a bad joke about not liking the name "fish butts" :/

[Angel the Little Merman]

Can a house drop down on him already along with his flying monkey so we won't have to deal with all this drama already.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

sounds good to me!

[Prince Calypso]

Can a house drop down on him already along with his flying monkey so we won't have to deal with all this drama already.
lol i agree.

[AniaR]

...just to be clear that screenshot I just posted wasnt mertailor. Just someone else getting in on drama

[MermaidBonnie]

Raina, why do you have the need to go to fb pages of people who arent your friends, then complain about their opinions on here? Surely a busy mermaid has no time for such nonsense.For the record I think fish butts is not a great business name, but I have nothing against Stevie, Im not in competition with her business. I did though have my friend look up tails to order recently and she was totally turned off by the business name and went with another tail maker instead, so I saw first hand how that kind of company name deterred one future client. I hope my free speech here doesnt get turned into some kind of attack bc its not meant as such.

[Spindrift]

I think it's still interesting to see what the rest of the merworld is up to, especially if you're closely associated with someone (mer-related). If it was personal stuff (non-mer) I really wouldn't give a rat's ass.

I'm sure there are other people who don't like the name. I'm not surprised by your opinion. However I think the only real harm the name does is that it loses the ability to show up in the Facebook search bar (when you search 'mermaid' it doesn't show up). People who have a problem with it can just do what your friend did. None of this stuff is actually a big deal.

[AniaR]

Raina, why do you have the need to go to fb pages of people who arent your friends, then complain about their opinions on here? Surely a busy mermaid has no time for such nonsense.For the record I think fish butts is not a great business name, but I have nothing against Stevie, Im not in competition with her business. I did though have my friend look up tails to order recently and she was totally turned off by the business name and went with another tail maker instead, so I saw first hand how that kind of company name deterred one future client. I hope my free speech here doesnt get turned into some kind of attack bc its not meant as such.

It showed up in my news feed through a mutual friend. I thought it was pretty inappropriate in light of all the recent drama Stevie is facing so I shared. Just like you shared your thoughts on mermaids r us in various places. Free speech goes all the way around. When someone is constantly putting me down, and the people I care about in public- yeah, Im going to draw attention to it. but what do I know? Im just a kid in an expensive tail... you know, like 90% of the mer-population :) Also, this IS the drama thread. If you dont like drama... don't read it.

[Angel the Little Merman]

I think it's still interesting to see what the rest of the merworld is up to, especially if you're closely associated with someone (mer-related). If it was personal stuff (non-mer) I really wouldn't give a rat's ass.

I'm sure there are other people who don't like the name. I'm not surprised by your opinion. However I think the only real harm the name does is that it loses the ability to show up in the Facebook search bar (when you search 'mermaid' it doesn't show up). People who have a problem with it can just do what your friend did. None of this stuff is actually a big deal.

Well said, in this case LOVE all of you but I'm staying away from this forum for a while.

[Spindrift]

You're leaving? :(

[AniaR]

Well said, in this case LOVE all of you but I'm staying away from this forum for a while.

just this thread or the whole forum? we'll miss you :(

p.s. thanks for all your recent support on my FB <3

[Angel the Little Merman]

Oh no love, I mean this thread. But it's just too much of the drama and the more I read it, the more my head starts hurting and I'm a loving guy so that's what I meant by leaving, didn't mean full on, love you guys, I can't do that.

[Mermaid Celissa]

Unrelated, but Angel, join the chatbox :D

[AniaR]

well then you should certainly stay away! :) I find this thread is mostly helpful for venting out mutual frustrations in the community @_@ but even I take breaks every once in a while. Don't want drama to bring you down! And you are such a kind loving soul <3

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I think one of my downfalls is my curiosity. There's a certain merperson whose caused me nothing but grief, yet I still find myself lurking on their page, curious as to what drama they stir up today, etc. It's like a train wreck: unpleasant but I cannot tear myself away.

[AniaR]

sometimes we just dont want them to treat other people the way they treat us. I know that's my big issue with mertailor. I go months without looking at his stuff then someone posts something and I find myself drawn in feeling defensive for my friend. I think the need to protect eachother is a big reason many people in the community get involved in drama.

[MermaidBonnie]

Spindrift is right, none of this is a big deal. Raina, I put my opinions of Mermaids R Us on my personal pages. I did not go to this forum to try to recruit people to get into drama. I did not come on here and let everyone know that Kylee and her overbearing pageant mom were harassing my elderly father with a heart condition, who lives 20 minutes from her, over my personal opinion on my page. Anyone who wanted to know more about that situation messaged me, and I forwarded the information to them. I didn't make it a big forum thing. Your post caught my attention Raina, bc SoCal Merman is my dear friend. He and his wife Shelly are the kind of mer friends you or any other person would want to have. It's hard to find good genuine people in this world like them. Late last night, they just picked up a fellow mer from the airport that had traveled to be with other mers from this online community who didn't even show up after she flew in from another continent! (I'm not mentioning names, bc it's not my place to do so). Left her stranded for a week with no place to stay...nothing. Not only are those types of mers rude, but they also put a sweet mermaid in a very dangerous situation. Thank goodness Chris and Shelly, who never met this mermaid before, were able to drop everything, to go to help her. Raina, you're entitled to your opinions as to who is a good person, and who isn't. Personally, I think it's people like Chris and Shell who enhance our community, but people who harass the elderly, and use our community only for personal fame and profit are awful examples of our mer-community. At least, people like us voice our opinions. We don't lie. No one is right 100% of the time, but at least you know what we think, bc we just say it. Raina, you like to defend people, to be their champion it seems. Maybe we should get you the names of those mers who left a mermaid stranded for a week in one of the most dangerous cities in the US? I think those people are more deserving of your attention?

[Princess Kae-Leah]

@Raina...yeah I don't want anyone else to suffer some of the mean and insensitive treatment I've been through either.

[Patches]

Wow. Just spent around an hour reading everything. To be honest, when I first found out about mermaiding I had heard the the mertailor was the best and was hoping to get my first tail from him. But then I started finding these really bad reviews about his tails, his poor customer service, not to mention outrageous pricing. It really put me off in regards to buying a tail from him. And now I see how he is treating other tail makers. Just starting out myself with very little funding, mainly making tails (cloth) for friends and friends of friends, it kind of worries and scares me a bit. I've had to put up with a lot to be as far as I am, specially a lot of studying. The last thing I want to have to worry about is if another tail-maker is going to start bashing my tails. I know they aren't the greatest, the most intricate or even that realistic looking. But just like everyone else, I am trying my hardest. And no one likes to hear another tail-maker talking crap about their work... Their art work, behind their back. It's extremely unprofessional and childish.

Yeah I did the EXACT same thing. In the beginning, I wanted my first tail from him. Then I found out how badly he was treating other people and figured that if I wasn't a celebrity, I wasn't going to get an honest product that was worked on to the best of his ability.

[Kanti]

Can you guys please stop? This thread has been alive for a long time and it's not even on topic anymore.
This is getting ridiculous.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

:rolleyes: Yeah im with Angel... this is ridiculous. We're all adults (well most) stop acting like children... ( not you.. raina your ok )


Just agree to disagree.... this bickering has gone on too much

[AniaR]

it's the drama thread, pretty sure the only qualifying thing for the drama thread is "drama" :p it consists of a bunch of different topics since posts get moved here. (and Nerine it's okay to tell me if you dont agree with me XD lol much love to you)

[NerineArcticMermaid]

yeah.. it might be the drama thread but its still not good to let it fester without some kind of resolution..

@raina.... you think like me... havent disagreed with ya yet but I'll let ya know if I ever do ;)

[MermaidBonnie]

Maybe it is a good idea to have a DRAMA thread then. Get it all out on here.

[MermaidBonnie]

Raina, btw, Raven and I are cool. As for Mermaids R Us, and Kylee? That issue was brought up by me on my page bc my friends and several acquaintances brought up severe problems with them that needed to be aired out. I just joined this forum, so I wasn't gonna be like "ok, I just joined on here, but here are my problems..." That's not cool in my opinion. Your psychological assessment of Chris is way off: plain and simple. That's nice that you stood up for me when people didn't like that I professed my discontent with Mermaids R Us and Kylee, but really I don't need to be stood up for. I like to have friends in this community, but I don't need anyone to like me to get to do what I do. When I book a mermaid gig, no one asks "how many fb likes do you have?", and I don't have to promote myself to get work, the work literally finds me. I'm a very lucky mer in that I travel the world as a mermaid (from the Carribean to Spain, and now to Australia), and I make more money than I can spend. When I'm not mermaiding, I run a kitten rescue, and I work with children who have disabilities, as well as tutor adults to get their GED, and help them get loans and grants to go to college. I don't parade these things I do around bc I don't do it for some sort of cheap reward. So if people don't like me Raina, bc I don't like people who act like they are all nice and do good things, but they have alterior motives that are detrimental to others, then that's fine. Obviously, I could never be friends with the Chris you have described. That isn't him. Have a good day Raina and all of you.

[MermaidBonnie]

"I do admit, at times I find it difficult to get to know you- because it feels to me and some others like Chris's words are simply coming from you instead." Sweetheart, I have a Master's degree. I know how to talk, and my words are my words. Maybe he and I utilize larger vocabulary words more than the common person, and that's what you are referring to? It is a good habit to check up on your public persona, I do agree with that. I don't post pictures of me with children or with the adults I tutor for good reasons. Bottom line: it's illegal and anything that could happen to that child from my posting a picture would legally be my fault. Honestly, I feel the more good you put out into the universe without expecting anything in return, not even a "look at me, I'm such a good person" while doing it, the more the universe rewards you on a deeper level. I only shared with you these things I do bc you made someone who is very special to me seem like such a dark awful person. And if Chris was such a negative person, why would I, a very selective person when it comes to friends, be his friend? Why would Linden Wolbert, who performs with Hannah, and was featured on the 20/20 mermaid special also be friends with him? Not just online, but she actually came to his house and swam in his pool! I know he is also cool with other highly successful mermaids such as Mermaid Melissa. If he was such a bad person, why would mers like us be his friends? Let it go. You don't like him, I get it. Good day!

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I really don't like or agree with Chris's latest post...there...I said it

[Ayla of Duluth]

Guys, I think you hijacked this thread. The title even says its not to start drama, only to inform. This isn't a drama thread. There's an official thread somewhere else meant strictly for that. This was a thread for someone to get an issue off their chest and get a little support and love. But this thread soon became about everyone else venting about their own personal problems and wr've forgotten why this thread was created. I think if you all want to continue arguing, you should take the rest of it to the OFFICIAL drama thread and restore this thread to its riginal purpose. TO INFORM.

[AniaR]

you're right Ayla, for some reason once things got going I thought this was already in the drama thread. My bad, Mods can feel free to move these over.

[MermaidBonnie]

I didnt even bother to read all that. I agree with the others. Keep it on topic. I shouldnt have reacted when you went off topic originally raina. Apparently Canada is not as strict with their laws concerning children. Im shocked. As a tutor, I am bound by the same HIPPA laws of confidentiality as a doctor is to his or her patient. If you just have to have verification tht I am me, give me a call.

[ShyMer]

Wait, what? What does HIPAA have to do with tutoring? I don't understand what sharing photos of people, especially if you get their permission, would violate anything.

[AnnaAbyss]

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."
I had a bad feeling about this Eric and his co workers. I don't know why, he just seems arrogant in his videos, never explains anything and seems pretty shut off. 've hrard a lot of bad things about this guy. At first I was in love with his tails, then I heard some bad stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love what his tails look like but from what I've heard, they are easy to break, paint comes off easily, unreliable, the list goes on. Let's not forget the price tags that go through the roof. I know I've only found out about this mermaid culture a few months ago and I know I'm a noob here, but I do have some opinions on this guy already. I shall be wary of this guy...

[AniaR]

Apparently Canada is not as strict with their laws concerning children. Im shocked. As a tutor, I am bound by the same HIPPA laws of confidentiality as a doctor is to his or her patient. Patient and student confidentiality is a completely different thing from photography and photo release. It's the same for the states and Canada -_-; This is MY field of expertise. When a child starts at school, as well as daycare, parents are given a photo release form as part of enrolment- they can choose to opt in or opt out and their wishes will be respected. Photographers also employ photo release forms for people of any age. Anyone publishing images of public spaces including children doesn't even need to have permission (though I always ask every single person, or when facing a group ask that people let me know if they don't want their child to appear on my website or FB) and anyone with specific images of children need only some form of approval from parents. I go the long way around and get photo release forms for parties and small events, in some cases I keep written documentation from parents through emails. The fact you think it's illegal boggles my mind, how do you think children end up on tv, in magazines, in news papers?

Generally, the only time I have found in which people do NOT give permission for photos, or an organization decides against published photos, is in cases where a child is adopted, going through custody issues, fostered, or a victim. That's why you always get permission first, so you don't unintentionally expose a child to something dangerous. Of course, some parents simply aren't comfortable with their child being online. I have personal photos of me with my best friend's kids, and she's not comfortable with them being online for none of those reasons- and that's fine with me because they're her kids and her right. Please don't ever even IMPLY that anyone is doing any harm to children without first doing your research.

Some helpful links: http://ambientlight.ca/laws/overview/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3559975/There-is-no-law-against-photographing-children.html
Quoted from http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2006-08-11-photography-rights_x.htm


Keeping it simple
The law in the United States of America is pretty simple. You are allowed to photograph anything with the following exceptions:
• Certain military installations or operations.
• People who have a reasonable expectation of privacy. That is, people who are some place that's not easily visible to the general public, e.g., if you shoot through someone's window with a telephoto lens.
That's it.
You can shoot pictures of children; your rights don't change because of their age or where they are, as long as they're visible from a place that's open to the public. (So no sneaking into schools or climbing fences.)
Video taping has some more gray areas because of copyright issues, but in general the same rules apply. If anyone can see it, you can shoot it.
And yes, you can shoot on private property if it's open to the public. That includes malls, retails stores, Starbucks, banks, and office-building lobbies. If you're asked to stop and refuse, you run the risk of being charged with trespassing, but your pictures are yours. No one can legally take your camera or your memory card without a court order.
You can also shoot in subways and at airports. Check your local laws about the subway, but in New York (http://ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=5&aid=57334), Washington, and San Francisco it's perfectly legal. Airport security is regulated by the Transportation Security Administration, and it's quite clear: Photography is A-OK at any commercial airport in the U.S. as long as you're in an area open to the public.
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

This has actually inspired me I think to do a whole thread on this in the professional mer section. I'm sure there are people who don't know the ins and outs of photography law and release forms etc so I think I'll organize that.

[MermaidBonnie]

Uhi shymer. When i work with a child with disabilities i have accessto legal and medical documents. I also work with their caseworkers, social workers, and therapists bc i work alot with abused children. I had to go through an intense screening process that included TB skin tests and drug tests that have to be updated every semester. If I only showed up to read a book every now and then the rules would be different. Since I actually work with the children, I am bound by HIPPA laws of confidentiality. This s why I dont post pix of my work with children. Thats all. But mayne your state laws are different where you are located. I advise anyone to look into those laws before posting pix of children who arent your relatives.

[AniaR]

allll summed up right here. Same rules in USA & Canada, http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?3086-Photography-amp-Professional-Mermaiding laws and examples for both mermaids as models, and photographing other people and children. Obviously, no one is expecting/asking you to void a patients privacy- two separate things.

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

I do miss talking with Chris on here, as he seemed to be passionate and interesting, and conversation with him was often fun. It was also cool to have the perspective of more of the straight merman side of things (aside from Malinghi and the other straight mermen on here). On the other hand, he did do a lot of grandstanding and attention-seeking (that whole thing about what he was coming out with that was going to revolutionize the hobby/tailmaking industry, etc), and he really got vicious in some of the threads on here, and it was like watching someone totally different talk... that's one of the reasons I haven't tried to look him up on facebook or elsewhere since his banning. Life is too short to waste on bitterness and conflict and insults when all I want to do is explore my interest in merfolk. I do hope that when his year long banning is up he comes back, though, hopefully exercising more moderation of speech.

[mermaidstar]

kinda funny but totally legit, sex toy cleaner is great for silicone tails. It kills bacteria, only needs to be left on for seconds, and is safe for use on silicone without destroying it. I got one that came in a spray bottle, and just looks like window cleaner!my mom uses sex toy cleansers to vlean tails. also saltwater and perxodie mix. this keeps tails smelling fresh and no problem with moldyness it can usually have.

[mermaidstar]

we have one rack coming out too that is going to be less expensive and more practical. than this one.

[mermaidstar]

The only real mermaids are Weeki mermaids. Most of the girls don't subscribe to any of the blogs or anything. They think they are the only ones that deserve to be recognized as mermaid starts. they are starting to buy more fancier tails now from mermiads r us.

[AniaR]

we have one rack coming out too that is going to be less expensive and more practical. than this one.

Who is "we" and who are you? ;) Might I suggest introducing yourself? (http://mernetwork.com/index/forumdisplay.php?7-Introduce-Yourself)

[Morticia Mermaid]

we have one rack coming out too that is going to be less expensive and more practical. than this one.

mermaidstar~ I think this statement was rude. What is your experience regarding this? And I have to agree with Raina, who is this "we" you keep mentioning? You just joined yesterday, and you have yet to introduce yourself. Maybe you should do that so people don't feel like you are insulting them. Because, I don't know about Iona, but if this had been my thread I would have been insulted.

[Morticia Mermaid]

The only real mermaids are Weeki mermaids. Most of the girls don't subscribe to any of the blogs or anything. They think they are the only ones that deserve to be recognized as mermaid starts. they are starting to buy more fancier tails now from mermiads r us.

Who are you to say who is and who isn't a mermaid?

[mermaidstar]

We are the only ones who do this day in and day out.

[Morticia Mermaid]

So that makes you the rulers of the mermaid community? I don't think so. You are NOT the only ones who do it day in and day out. I have devoted my life to mermaiding, and THAT makes me a mermaid. There are others who devote all the time they can to mermaiding, and THAT makes them mermaids too. YOU have no right to tell anyone they are not a mermaid.

And anyone who is a TRUE mermaid knows that. For you to say that only Weeki mermaids are the only mermaids means that YOU aren't a real mermaid.

[Elle]

You have no right to turn around and say you can and can't be a mermaid. Just because majority of the girls and guys on here don't work in an aquarium all day every day, does not make them any less of a mermaid(/man) than the performers at weeki wachi.
Being a mer is something that you don't have to embody everyday, but something you can feel and know inside of yourself. It's part an individuals identity regardless of whether you own a tail yet or not, get paid to swim in an aquarium or whatever.
You can't say whether or not we are mers, just like we can't tell you to go swim in a tank full of box jellyfish.
If your going to be mean and horrible do it somewhere else. This is a site where we support each other in our goals and dreams. If you're just here to squash those, then you've completely lost what it is to be a mer.

Have a wonderful day!

[Mermaid Lei Loni]

I agree with Elle and Lexia. Sure, it would be wonderful to be a mermaid day in and day out, but that doesn't make someone else a better mermaid than anyone else in the community. I tell this to kids all the time that get sad they can't be a "real mermaid". A real mermaid is anyone who feels they are a mermaid in their heart. A real mermaid is someone that is true to themselves. What makes a mermaid real is not her day job, the materials of her tail, or how well she swims, what makes a mermaid is who she is on the inside. If you can dream it, you can BE it.

[AniaR]

We are the only ones who do this day in and day out.

Do you represent Weeki Wachi? I don't think it's in your best interest to come on here and be rude to people. You said your mom when we were talking about cleaning tails , and you reference mermaids r us. I am wondering if you are the owner of mermaids r us's daughter? I have your mom on facebook as a friend if so ;)

You're certainly welcome to join the forum and get in on the conversation about being a mermaid, however, we have some rules you should read before posting again please.
Here are the site rules: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?266-Rules-and-Disclaimers
Here's how to use the site: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?3123-New-Here-s-important-information-to-get-you-started-on-the-site-and-in-mermaiding!
Here's a little note about harassment: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?216-Harassment-Awareness

I don't believe Weeki Wachi would appreciate you coming into the forums and saying bad things in their name. However, I have a feeling you're young and don't know much about the community as a whole or the forum so hopefully you read this and understand. I have no problem calling up Weeki Wachi to chat about this however, or Mermaids R Us. I also know however, that a certain individual has also been trying to cause drama between Mermaids R Us and other community members. So I wouldn't be surprised if that was the intent of this account either.

Either way, bringing it to the attention of a Mod.

[Elle]

What makes a mermaid real is not her day job, the materials of her tail, or how well she swims, what makes a mermaid is who she is on the inside. If you can dream it, you can BE it.

Had to throw it out there, you just reminded me of happy feet 2: Sven think! If you want it, you must will it. If you will it, it will be yours.
Sorry, had to put it out there :)

[AniaR]

I really suggest people stop for now, til the Mod's can use their special powers to investigate the account ;) I know what was said was very offensive but for now let's avoid a flame war.

It would be great if mods could move the posts that dont relate. Thanks

[AniaR]

I contacted Weeki Wachi and the mods.

EDIT
THIS PERSON IS NOT A WEEKI WACHI MERMAID. I emailed them to check. They also say,

I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. I can assure you that it is not our position when it comes to who is a mermaid. Although we are very proud of our 65 year history and tradition, we are always flattered when other mermaids indicate how Weeki Wachee has inspired them. Keep the mermaid dream alive and we always appreciate your support. Kindest.

I believe Iona discovered a thing or too while checking out the account as well so I'll leave that with her.

[Winged Mermaid]

Ignore all posts by this user. It is a fake account, and from the information they've posted and the information on their profile I can tell you with utmost certainty that it is a blatant attempt at framing Mermaid Kylee, to make her look bad in the eyes of the community.

This person certainly went through enough trouble to do this. On top of making references to Kylee and Mermaids R Us in their other posts, they even created a fake email to register the username with. It is only one character's difference from her official email address posted on her public pages. I looked up the IP and found that it's a specific type of server used for a specific purpose, not a computer. Basically they were using an IP scrambler.

This account will be banned, and posts moved to the drama thread.

I know that there is some drama between Kylee and other members of the community, as well as between Mermaids R Us and other members and tail makers. But this is unacceptable. We need to respect each other and co-exist in this community. That doesn't mean you have to agree with others or like them. But be a decent human being and have some common decency.



http://mernetwork.com/index/image.php?u=2&type=sigpic&dateline=1310510451

[Morticia Mermaid]

Thank you Raina and Iona. I was really upset earlier, I still am a bit, but I am feeling better

[ShyMer]

Whoa. Thank you for nipping that problem in the bud, guys.

[AniaR]

Wonder twin powers, activate: Form of Iona and Raina! Mermaid Karate fin kick! Hiya!

Seriously though, the behaviour of people is disgusting.

[Alveric]

Who ya gonna call? Troll Busters! ;-)

[Mer_Adella]

http://www.facebook.com/mermaidaela/posts/423185404413923?comment_id=74809112&notif_t=feed_comment_reply


really? i know that i am not going to start drama...but this just kinda infurirates me....who belittles other on their appearance? it just makes me upset...if you don't like someones tails/business/etc don't buy from them. it does nothing but belittle your own self when you belittle others...aka...BULLYING!!!!

[Mermaid Melusinah]

http://www.facebook.com/mermaidaela/posts/423185404413923?comment_id=74809112&notif_t=feed_comment_reply


really? i know that i am not going to start drama...but this just kinda infurirates me....who belittles other on their appearance? it just makes me upset...if you don't like someones tails/business/etc don't buy from them. it does nothing but belittle your own self when you belittle others...aka...BULLYING!!!!

I'm disappointed to be completely honest. As mers, professional and not, we are looked up to one way or another. I understand the heat of battle and word slinging. But think of this, next time the convo gets heated, is this some thing that you would want a potential client to see? Or what about that young girl that you did a party for recently that said you have inspired her to pursue her mer-persona and life dream. Are these the kinds of examples we should be setting for others? I am not taking a side in this at all anywhere, I am simply saying that the amount of childish drama on PUBLIC display is just appalling... smh.... I still love you guys, but COME ON! Just remember, we're all role models here in some way or another.....

[AniaR]

This is being discussed over here too http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?3594-Once-again-I-m-being-attacked-and-feel-the-need-to-share-WARNING!-DRAMA!

[ShyMer]

... That was something. To be honest, I'm seeing the same people stirring up old complaints and resorting to insults instead of having a real discussion. Where are these people who feel ripped off by Stevie? I haven't seen anyone yet who didn't get their problems resolved, so if they're out there, it would be nice if they actually spoke up. Yes, she's had problems with her product, but she fixes it. I don't want one myself, but I thought that people were generally happy with Stevie's work.

Just an observation- I've noticed Shelly never gets into these fights. That ugliness on facebook was very sad. There's a lot of hate there. I wonder how she feels about that, because this is being done in her name and reflects on her business. If Shelly is as sweet as she appears to be, I don't know how she can put up with this nastiness.

[Dacora]

http://www.facebook.com/mermaidaela/posts/423185404413923?comment_id=74809112&notif_t=feed_comment_reply


really? i know that i am not going to start drama...but this just kinda infurirates me....who belittles other on their appearance? it just makes me upset...if you don't like someones tails/business/etc don't buy from them. it does nothing but belittle your own self when you belittle others...aka...BULLYING!!!!

This whole FB thing is brain damage.
I dont completely see what the issue is and why it started(mostly beacuse I try and steer clear of it) but I hope it blows over soon. Its embarrassing to see other mers fighting like this.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[Mermaid Momo]

^this. It's just sad that someone would feel the need to claim someone else's work of art their own. Did they feel that much pressure to be able to claim she wears something made by her own hands? maybe she thinks it make her more of a mer? I really don't know what someone may be thinking when they do something like that. :/

[Blondie]

To her defense, she did list the tail for $200 but the bid went up to $400.

BUT. It was not cool to go on about how the tail was non functional here then say on ebay, "Oh this is a great tail." Because either it really is or it really isn't.

What really grinds my gears is that someone has the nerve to say, "Oh I made this tail." When you just painted it... That's basically like Raven saying "Oh I made this tail" after repainting your Mertailor tail, Raina.

I TRULY hope the magazine corrects this or at least gives a sincere apology. That's not cool to steal someone's craft. Not cool at all.

[Mermaid Citrine]

I agree that's not right.....the honest thing to say is: _________ made this tail and I then I altered it instead of pretending you made it outright. Seems very immature to do that.

[New York Mermaid]

I have ALWAYS Credited My tailmaker in any interview or on my page, even if people asks me who made my tail. I Cant believe someone could be like that. Especially in the tail made by Fish Butts.. Come on now. You didint make the tail all you did was repaint it. how can you also lie about its use and yet sell it on ebay as a "great tail". If you want to take tails and sell them Make them yourself. Sheesh some people..

[seagirls626]

I agree. That is just wrong! I would always give credit to my tail maker no matter what!

[Prince Calypso]

i feel so sorry for Steph. she's just getting it from all ends. its just sad as hell when a person with a creative and artistic mind and skill is treated so.... fucked up.
if a tailmaker goes through the trouble of making a tail to your specifications weather for better or worse you credit them. you do not down play their skills, then turn around and sale theri work of art and them claim it as your own creation. that is wrong.
Steph is a great tailmaker and she can and will only get better. she offered tails for a low price to everybody could live their mermaid dreams with a realistic tail and this is how she is treated. its just... unspeakable.

[Mermaid Annariea]

agreed. and especially what calypso said, stevi is such a wonderful person and tailmaker, and even friend, and the way some people treat her is just awful. shes been so stressed lately with all the xmas orders, and i feel so badly for her. poor thing. hopefully she can get this all straightened out :/

[-Annwyn-]

I have a feeling this will start some drama, hence the warning. It doesn't HAVE to start drama so long as everyone can be objective and not freak out in the threads. I am posting this because a friend of mine, Stevi, known as the owner of Fishbutts, is going through a real tough time, and this is just kicking her when she's down. I know not everyone gets along, but I hope even for those of you who may not like her, will appreciate what I'm writing and how it's not an OKAY thing to happen in our community.

So, for some of you long timers, you might remember back a few months ago when a review was posted that started a bit of drama. I'm trying to find all the links associated, so bare with me. On the 5th review here (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1773-Fish-Butts)this person gave fishbutts a 1/5 and then proceeded to sell the tail for 2x's what was paid for it. It also came to light that the individual stretched the truth on the review in another thread (post link if you know it, I'm trying to track it down). Following that the person made some very public complaints about mertailor on mernetwork (complained about sizing issues, paint coming off, terrible smell etc. ring a bell?), but then posted the exact opposite on facebook on his page. Well, if you look at the latest issue of Mermaids and Mythology, there's an image published of that mer in their fishbutts tail. The image goes along with a caption/article that suggests the individual MADE the tail. There's no mention or credit to fishbutts at all. Now, several of us have encouraged Stevi to contact Mermaids and Mythology so they can give her a proper credit in the next issue. Magazines and newspapers do that all the time.

My point is, this person has lied several times, and at the very least changed their story several times around different things. This is the internet, we can all track down what people say, it's not hard to see these things. DON'T LIE ABOUT THIS STUFF. It's incredibly disrespectful. Especially if it goes to the point of being published!

I'm not posting this to encourage people to harass the person, or cyberbully in anyway, I don't condone that. I am posting it because I think people should know this stuff happens. We don't have to all get along and like each other in the community. But seriously, can we stop trying to ruin each other? It can't just slip your mind that someone else made your tail... please be accountable people :( this should be a community of mers that support each other, not stab each other in the back any chance they get :(


Disclaimer: I am being totally open minded when I say the following.


"...this person gave fishbutts a 1/5 and then proceeded to sell the tail for 2x's what was paid for it" The reviews on MerNetwork allow for a 1-star ratings. Customers putting through a review should not have to feel intimidated into giving 4 or 5 stars if they are legitimately not happy with the product they have purchased. Honesty is best policy here. As for reselling it - she's purchased the product from the tailmaker to begin with therefore she legally owns it and can resell it for whatever price she demands. I cannot see anywhere on FishButts page any contract information binding the customer into NOT modifying the tail or reselling it. If it was a part of the contract of sale I could understand, but as soon as money and product traded hands, the customer owed nothing more to FishButts. It's now up to the buyer of the modified tail to beware.

"There's no mention or credit to fishbutts at all." Individual Tailmaker information is not a requirement on Mermaid & Mythology magazine for models, merely credit the the photographer who is supplying the photo to the magazine. Naming the tail provider would be like having to supply information of the makers of your jewellry, make-up brands and the suppliers of the matching bikini. M&M do not owe anyone an apology.

"this should be a community of mers that support each other, not stab each other in the back any chance they get" But snippy, pedantic, intimidating, non-issues are just so much more mature.....?

Honestly, I think this issue is immature and completely absurd.

[Spindrift]

@Aela: I don't think the argument here is that she gave the tail a 1/5 rating. I think that quip and particular detail was just used to explain the scenario, and not actually the detail being criticized here. It's not the main point, or even a point at all. In addition, if M&M does not require any information about the tailmaker then the situation is even more absurd because she supplied unnecessary information that also happens to be inaccurate. I was under the impression that the problem was that she said she made the tail when she didn't. Not that she didn't give credit. I think if that photo was supplied without any info at all about the tailmaker no one would have had a problem with it at all. I don't have anything to say about your third point, but I also don't feel that strongly about the issue.

[-Annwyn-]

@Aela: I don't think the argument here is that she gave the tail a 1/5 rating. I think that quip and particular detail was just used to explain the scenario, and not actually the detail being criticized here. It's not the main point, or even a point at all. In addition, if M&M does not require any information about the tailmaker then the situation is even more absurd because she supplied unnecessary information that also happens to be inaccurate. I was under the impression that the problem was that she said she made the tail when she didn't. Not that she didn't give credit. I think if that photo was supplied without any info at all about the tailmaker no one would have had a problem with it at all. I don't have anything to say about your third point, but I also don't feel that strongly about the issue.


The initial rating is very much a part of the argument, irrelevant as it may be. If the matter is that the person in questions supplied unnessessary information, do you not agree that it would be better and more rational for Fish Butts to discuss their grievances with the so-called offender offline rather than Raina posting a tell-all-scandal rant?

One thing we must also note too, is that we have not heard the 'offenders' side yet. So please everyone, do take this fact into consideration.

[Traveling Merman]

What a negative thread and a waste of all our time discussing this when we could be doing something else more fun like like......... Trying to drink tea out of a flask in a moving car whilst driving the length of the UK at breakneck speed because you're late!!

[-Annwyn-]

What a negative thread and a waste of all our time discussing this when we could be doing something else more fun like like......... Trying to drink tea out of a flask in a moving car whilst driving the length of the UK at breakneck speed because you're late!!


I'm glad you recognise that!

:)

[Elle]

I think, given past relationships between certain mers, this topic is getting off hand.
@Aela; Raina is defending a friend as she has every right too. And if she feels that she needs to get it off her chest then she should be allowed to.
If you don't like it, no one is making you read it.

[-Annwyn-]

I think, given past relationships between certain mers, this topic is getting off hand.
@Aela; Raina is defending a friend as she has every right too. And if she feels that she needs to get it off her chest then she should be allowed to.
If you don't like it, no one is making you read it.

Hey, just cool your water-jets, Elle. Of course "Raina is allowed to defend a friend", or however you want to interpret the situation, and I in no way am stopping her. If you read my post carefully you will notice I did not make a personal attack on Raina, but rather addressed the situation. HOWEVER, in the same vein, someone should be allowed to speak in the defence without being attacked, intimidated or humiliated. The other side needs a fair-go in order to be heard too. This is not a one-way street.

[Traveling Merman]

Zzzzzzz -_- how do I stop notifications for this thread?

[Mermaid Momo]

Zzzzzzz -_- how do I stop notifications for this thread?
Did you subscribe to it? Then it should be in your control panel to unsubscribe. Somewhere on the screen where you edit you avatar. :)

[AniaR]

@Aela: I don't think the argument here is that she gave the tail a 1/5 rating. I think that quip and particular detail was just used to explain the scenario, and not actually the detail being criticized here. It's not the main point, or even a point at all. In addition, if M&M does not require any information about the tailmaker then the situation is even more absurd because she supplied unnecessary information that also happens to be inaccurate. I was under the impression that the problem was that she said she made the tail when she didn't. Not that she didn't give credit. I think if that photo was supplied without any info at all about the tailmaker no one would have had a problem with it at all. I don't have anything to say about your third point, but I also don't feel that strongly about the issue.

Exactly

[Mahi Mermaid]

I never said I made my tails in that article, I made my first one, yes- and sold it. I never said I made the ones in the pictures, actually I don't think it says it either way. I went to Merpalooza and met Eric the Mertailor and my opinion of him changed (yes this can happen) he was very nice and sweet, unlike what I had previously thought about him through the internet. If anyone plans to show this to him, go ahead, he already knows what I felt about him at first and how it has changed since meeting him. As far as Fishbutts goes, everyone already knows that story too- I purchased a plain tail, it came late, I asked for a refund it was not granted. It also didn't hold up well- the pictures in the magazine were right after I painted it and put the tail on Ebay. The price I sold it for is neither here no there either. What is done is done. Again, I never claimed I made the tail- although I didn't credit it either. Only fault I see here is not crediting it---but I did not claim to make it either.

[Mahi Mermaid]

corrections will show in the next issue of Mermaids & Mythology as I have already been contacted by Karen. My apologies to Stevie and Eric for not crediting them but no apologies to anyone other than those two, for I never "claimed" any work that was not truly mine.

[Mahi Mermaid]

Quote from the article referring to 'making the tail'

"she decided it was time to invest in constructing her first functional mermaid tail" (p.23)

again, I did make my first tail, it was made out of neoprene. Key word here: FIRST

No where else in the article does it say the pictures show a tail I made....

What's sad is no one is reading the article and appreciating it for what it is. I am a DISABLED VETERAN who FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY and all you guys can say is "omg...she is such a "back stabber" and so immature". What is immature is this thread. This needs to be put down or stopped after this post.

[Mahi Mermaid]

8460

Here's my FIRST tail

[Mermaid Celissa]

*ahem*

...


8461

[Ayla of Duluth]

I am a DISABLED VETERAN who FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY and all you guys can say is "omg...she is such a "back stabber" and so immature". What is immature is this thread. This needs to be put down or stopped after this post. I don't really think you being a veteran is relevant to this thread, other than a tool to try and get people to feel bad. Its an irrelevant point.

[seagirls626]

Hey, could someone post a copy of the article? That way, we could all see for ourselves. I do agree with Ayla, being a veteran has nothing to do with this discussion. It's rather a tool to get people to feel bad for Krystal. But I do want to say that we shouldn't all gang up on her.

[AniaR]

If it didn't come across the way I say, the magazine would not offer to post a correction.
corrections will show in the next issue of Mermaids & Mythology as I have already been contacted by Karen Magazines don't post corrections unless there has been an error. If they felt it was enough to post a correction, I think my point stands as valid. I found it hard to read the article, and seeing it for what it is, knowing how much lying there was done about that tail previously in the already documented threads. I've also been contacted by several people since posting this who have had similar experiences who don't wish to get into a public issue over it, so I'll drop it, but it validates to me that it was a good choice to post about it.

I'm glad the magazine is posting a correction, because that's the respectful thing to do. I didn't call you out specifically, I actually avoided specifically identifying you. You're more than welcome to give your side of the story, but the fact remains, the Magazine decided to correct it for a reason. (FYI, I did NOT contact them) Mernetwork doesn't delete threads/posts. But the mods are free to move it to the "drama" thread. I consider it resolved since the magazine is taking action, regardless of whether or not people agree with me.

[Morticia Mermaid]

I didn't call you out specifically, I actually avoided specifically identifying you.

I have to call Bull Shark on that Raina. You identified her as soon as you posted the link to the review and stated that it was the 5th review. If you felt it was that much of an issue, you should have contacted the magazine yourself, but you didn't and instead started a thread which caused gods only know how much drama. I feel that the way the thread was started, or that it was even started, is a bit immature and un-called for. It should have been handled privately instead of publicly.

[-Annwyn-]

I don't really think you being a veteran is relevant to this thread, other than a tool to try and get people to feel bad. Its an irrelevant point.

Mentioning the 1/5 star rating in the beginning was irrelevant also, and only used apparently 'to bring context to the story'. As such, I see it as only fair that Krystal gets to explain her background too 'to bring context to the story'.


And Raina, I am curious about your quote: "I consider it resolved since the magazine is taking action, regardless of whether or not people agree with me." I wonder how the issue suddenly became about you because I would only imagine that the issue would only be resolved when Krystal and Stevi has a discussion and came to a resolution, not when you say so.

[babsannee]

*ahem*

...


8461




LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Spindrift]

The initial rating is very much a part of the argument, irrelevant as it may be. If the matter is that the person in questions supplied unnessessary information, do you not agree that it would be better and more rational for Fish Butts to discuss their grievances with the so-called offender offline rather than Raina posting a tell-all-scandal rant?

One thing we must also note too, is that we have not heard the 'offenders' side yet. So please everyone, do take this fact into consideration.

An argument is "a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong." So no, I don't think it is a part of the argument. I think it's just setting up the scenario for an argument (context). Which is different because it's not a reason used to convince people that someone is wrong. As for discussing -this- particular grievance online/offline, I actually don't really care either way and I personally don't think it's as big of a deal as people seem to think it is. However, I do think it's good to teach proper etiquette when it comes to crediting, especially if you are going to credit incorrectly. So let me reiterate: I don't think this particular situation is especially noteworthy, but I do think people should be reminded to credit properly -if they are required to-. For me, I would be mostly bothered by an incorrect crediting in the event that a credit wasn't even necessary. In any case, I don't think the purpose of the original thread was to slander the person in general, but rather to use her story as an example and catalyst for the discussion.

In any case, I do think Krystal handled the situation well, and I liked her answer. Since I haven't read the actual article, I don't exactly know what damage there was.
The veteran thing is a little off-putting since it feels a little desperate (especially from one military girl to another), but other than that she made a clear argument that was quite strong and I would personally give her the benefit of the doubt at this point, especially since I don't think the actual situation was that big of a deal (although the same -problem- could be a huge deal in the future, in a different scenario).

Point: I also think the issue could have also been brought up to the community more diplomatically.

[Mahi Mermaid]

If any of you actually read the article you would see that being a veteran has everything to do with this discussion since the whole reason I was in the magazine in the first place was because I am a veteran, who was injured, and who turned to mermaiding as a form of physical therapy. I advise those of you who haven't read it, to read it. It really shows another side of being a mermaid.

[Ayla of Duluth]

well yes, but you used your veteran status to make people feel bad for you. You didn't say "I am a disabled veteran and that's why I was in the magazine." Rather you said "I am a DISABLED VETERAN who FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY and all you guys can say is "omg...she is such a "back stabber" and so immature"." To me, that's the same thing as saying "How dare you talk badly about me when I was injured fighting for this country." The way you said it came off in a way that had nothing to do with the magazine at all. I feel like I was being called the bad guy for not taking pity on you for your service.

[Ayla of Duluth]

Like what are we supposed to say? "you're a disabled veteran so we're sorry for all the things we've ever said about you that you didn't approve of?" That's just what I got from your statement. I felt like it was unnecessary.

[mermanjr]

I admire Krystal in how she became a mermaid because its hard to come back from such Injuries and i should know and I to came back from injury that almost put me in a wheel chair for life . However with a two surgeries and a lot of swimming in the mermaid style I over came it and so I read the article and it inspires me and kids that anything can be over came ,with dedication and hard work.
This is what i took from the article. However everyone might look at it differently in many lights, to that end you should not pass judgement, but thank her for sharing her story and to help inspire others to follow there dream.

[Mermaid_Aryana]

I'm with Krystal on this one

[Elle]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

AGREED!!!!

I think we all need to be big fish now and calm down. Getting cranky at each other ain't gonna help anyone.
@Aela, I don't need to cool down, i'm practically a sea cucumber. (and so layed back i'm horizontal :P).
8476 see very layed back :)
I did actually think if bringing up the whole past grievences......what drama that was! But I was the bigger fish. I think you might be taking things on a more personal level here.
There is too much estrogen cracking on around here. We need to relabel this as a PMS thread instead of a Drama Thread
Lets all go blow some bubbles, fly a kite and all that nonsense

[-Annwyn-]

AGREED!!!!

I think we all need to be big fish now and calm down. Getting cranky at each other ain't gonna help anyone.
@Aela, I don't need to cool down, i'm practically a sea cucumber. (and so layed back i'm horizontal :P).
8476 see very layed back :)
I did actually think if bringing up the whole past grievences......what drama that was! But I was the bigger fish. I think you might be taking things on a more personal level here.
There is too much estrogen cracking on around here. We need to relabel this as a PMS thread instead of a Drama Thread
Lets all go blow some bubbles, fly a kite and all that nonsense

Elle, I'm not angry with you at all. I'm not sure where you're reading it from.
Let me put it simply - I'm with Krystal on this topic. She was slighted horribly.

[-Annwyn-]

Like what are we supposed to say? "you're a disabled veteran so we're sorry for all the things we've ever said about you that you didn't approve of?" That's just what I got from your statement. I felt like it was unnecessary.


The original article in M&M told of Krystals' service in the US Army, being wounded and using mermaiding as a form of healing in the efforts to inspire others, no gloat. What Krystal has been through is nothing to gloat about. The fact that you interpret this as 'unnecessary' and 'trying to make others feel bad' saddens me that you could be so cold-hearted towards another. Surely you aren't that hateful, Ayla?! D:

[Prince Calypso]

This Shit give me a headache.
though i agree with raina as to why she started the thread and her feeling behind it i also agree that if could have been handled in a way that wasn't so public.
my only concern in all of this was Stevi and the shit that she is going through.
i get so tired that every time a person starts a thread that someone else doesn't agree with it turns into this mud slinging bullshit.
i THOUGHT we were all mature adults here who could see things from all points of view and discuss things without being stupid.

to use my mother's favorite quotes
"This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things!"

All this in-fighting and bickering is tiresome and it sets a bad example for newcomers to the group and community.

[Ayla of Duluth]

The original article in M&M told of Krystals' service in the US Army, being wounded and using mermaiding as a form of healing in the efforts to inspire others, no gloat. What Krystal has been through is nothing to gloat about. The fact that you interpret this as 'unnecessary' and 'trying to make others feel bad' saddens me that you could be so cold-hearted towards another. Surely you aren't that hateful, Ayla?! D:
No no, not hateful at all. I'm sorry, I'm not very good at putting my thoughts into words. I do understand how the article was written about her being a disabled veteran and finding mermaiding to be therapudic. I was pointing out that the way she said "I'm a disabled veteran and all you guys can say is blah blah?" Came off to me like a guilt trip of sorts. Like we're supposed to be kind to her because of her status. That's just how I took it, but I guess I'm alone in that, and it was said a while ago so I'll just leave it be. :)

[Blondie]

Maybe we can all agree there were some mistakes made by others, and fingers pointed too quickly.

[Morticia Mermaid]

This is probably out of left field, but... Anyone else notice that Fish Butts is using a chart similar to the one Raven uses? Just curious if I'm the only one who noticed.

On a different note- Iona, do you mind if I use some (or a lot) of the last part for recommendations about measuring?

[AniaR]

they're generic fill in the blank measuring charts. The majority of the ones out there can be sourced back to public free use images. I think fishbutts actually had that one first.

[New York Mermaid]

raina is correct Fishbutts had it first.

[Morticia Mermaid]

Ok... Only needed one person to say so. I was just wondering if I was the only one who noticed they were similar. I wasn't meaning to sound like I was accusing anyone of something. Just making an observation. I apologize it sounded as such

[AniaR]

Nobody was accusing you, you pointed it out so I shared it was the opposite of your observation. :p Raven actually asked Stevi if she could use that one. But merbellas just updated with their own new one now:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/149323_475028655886553_1495481627_n.jpg

[Morticia Mermaid]

Raina... The only observation I made was stating that they were similar. I never said either used it before the other.

I love how everyone thinks I am attacking Stevi and her company, when really I am not.

I've been making clothing for the last 4 1/2 years. I'd love to be able to talk to her personally because I could probably give her some tips that would help make things not as stressful. And have been learning the basics of business management since my parents had their own auto shop when I was 13.

[Morticia Mermaid]

I was not intentionally putting an issue on anything. I apologize I came off as sounding defensive. Wording things well isn't exactly something I am good at. I did not mean to make you feel as though I was attacking you either. I'm sorry I did.

[Mermaid Momo]

Is it possible that Steve could be sues for using the image she has? Because that isn't a generic sizing chart and it isn't free for use. It's a drawing from a how to draw comics book by Christopher Hart. I know nothing about how things like this works but couldn't she get in trouble for using the image without permission from the publisher or artist?

[seagirls626]

Hmmm... I'm not sure, but you have a good point there. Maybe she got permission from the artist?