The Drama Thread (WARNING: DRAMA AHEAD)

[SeaGlass Siren]

After reviewing the context and what was said... Sorry Raina I still don't see it.

[Echidna]

I couldn't find the context, but if all this is about a "take your time"-one liner, then this sounds awefully like "Weekly Pearlbashing Round" :p

[SeaGlass Siren]

Yes it does. Sorry guys ._.

[AniaR]

To be fair, you didn't seem to see anything wrong the last time she said some interesting things (see: the whole cock fighting statements, accusing of racism, and suggesting people would physically harm her) when most of us did.

[Mermaid Oshun]

I have just had an extremely major personal crisis in my life so I must take a retreat. Raina and Pearlie Mae you've made it clear ad nauseam that you think I made a faux pas by saying "haste makes waste". I am sorry you feel that way. I totally disagree as my intent was to encourage Zen to keep it up but to be careful and lest hasty. But now I need to work on my personal crisis so I must unfortunately bid you adieu. Best wishes with all your mermaid ventures. You may feel happy now that I will retreat.
Good bye
Golden Pearl

[Mermaid Oshun]

*less

[PearlieMae]

With the exception of two words I put into quotes so she knew to what I was referring, I did NOT include what was sent to me in private messages from GP. I had wanted to offer some constructive advice with regard to Zen's plaster dilemma, but could not. When GP chimed in with nothing helpful, I called her on it. I SUGGESTED the conversation be moved here because I KNEW the feces was about to come into contact with the rotary oscillator! And subsequently, the situation was diffused with humor...or so I thought.I apologized to Zen privately and he had since been successful with his mold, and I am happy for him.

[SeaGlass Siren]

^ not completely true, i disagreed about the race thing because it was uncalled for. the physically harming thing i think we can all also agree that was uncalled for. the only thing i didn't see wrong with was the rooster-fight comparison... because again *insert its part of my culture here* and i think we were misreading what she was trying to say. but that's all done and set aside so lets not go into that.

i didn't see anything wrong with it because its something i grew up with too :S obviously that's not what was told to me exactly but the idea is almost the same. i think we're reading into it too much. when i mentioned "my race" as you said, i meant "my language." which is basically take your time and don't rush. i can't possibly see that as inappropriate. its like a teacher telling kid to finish up a science experiment but telling them to take their time to get good grades. (i dont know if any of my analogies are making sense anymore, stop me if it doesn't.)

what we were taught as youngin's is different than others. is it acceptable? not sure, but we wont know until it's pointed out. if there's anything inappropriate i think it'd be statements like "you're stupid/slow" or "i told you so" and seems more like an ego thing .__.


edit: i dismissed the physical harm thing because i didn't want to be making situation worse. wouldve went bat shit because i know youre not like that raina lol

[SeaGlass Siren]

woops log-in timed out. was supposed to be in response to raina

[Jessica]

People document their trail and error of their tail making experiences as a way to connect and share with the community, not be teased when they fail at something.

^^^ this is a VERY important point that Raina made!! I had mistakes with my first tail, and I had so many of you that supported me and encouraged me. It really meant the world to me. Problems with your tail can be really devastating....tails are very expensive to make and if you screw up you not only don't wind up with a tail, you also lose a bunch of time and money. It's so important that we support each other....you never know when your kind comment might really lift someone up and make their day. A rude comment can make a mistake so much worse and be very hurtful.


I think there is so much more going on here than many of you realize. This isn't the first time golden pearl has made a rude(whether intentional or not) comment in a tailmaking thread.

I don't particularly like to get involved in drama, but in this case I think a few things need to be pointed out since some of you think Golden pearl is being picked on.

For example....julz had an issue with the paint on her tail and posted this in her tailmaking thread:


Julz:
well, had the test swim tonight... it swam great... but the paint.... well, it didn't so much.... So devastated right now... No way I can get this tail repainted and ready by Saturday.... well, I can try, but I doubt it...... Gonna need to go get some clear coat to cover over the paint with... recommended by the guy that did the tail from Splash( I cannot remember his name)but he wanted to try and help. I thanked him for it....


So, sorry folks... its not looking good.

after pearlie Mae, myself and Emma all posted supportive comments trying to help julz feel better, Golden Pearl posted
this:



Golden Pearl:
that's why I told you to only use tinted latex as a colorant... not createx and water. That's what I had to do when I made my latex fluke last Summer Basically you had to put colored latex into the scale and fluke mold and be done with it. If you try to use a clear paint on top it will just peel off like a snake because it will not be at all flexible like the rubber



^ this is a really big " I told you so" and really a hurtful comment.

honestly, i was absolutely livid when I saw this. Julz was devastated and the LAST thing she needed was a comment that would only make her feel worse. I didn't want to start drama so I didn't say anything then ( this all happened the beginning of this month) but I realize now that I made a mistake. I shouldn't have let that slide when it bothered me so much and I know it bothered Julz. We need to support each other as artists and not cut each other down.

The only reason I'm bringing this up is to make it clear that no one is picking on Golden Pearl and this isn't a "pearl bashing session"

seeing Golden Pearl make another hurtful comment in a tailmaking thread is really upsetting for those of us who are aware of other posts she has made. Enough is enough.....it's time to make sure we are all supporting each other if we want this community to continue to be open and accepting

[Mermaid Oshun]

Ok My comment to Julz was meant to give advice on how she could paint the tail without it peeling off as I had been through the exact same thing myself last Summer.. I offered a SOLUTION. Since when is offering a solution to a problem a bad thing? It is all about perception. If you are inclined to view something as negative you will find a way to do so come hell or high water.

[SeaGlass Siren]

i personally think she didnt mean to be rude .__. although now i can certainly see why it was seen as mean.
xample; i tell my sister " that's why i told you to do this because blahblah"... and then i'd explain it so she would understand because she's my younger sister, and i care. but she's always lashing back at me for being rude and i could never understand why she thinks i'm always rude :\

[SeaGlass Siren]

^ that was a tiny bit uncalled for .__. Pearl i'm pretty they weren't doing that

[Mermaid Oshun]

I have a male friend who HATES to be corrected. He always has to feel like he is right. If I try to HELP him with a problem he gets angry because his ego is hurt. He feels that HE should be the one who is always right. So if anyone helps him to fix a problem he has he becomes irate and hostile because it shows that he is not the one who is always superior. Everything has to be put in its context to fully appreciate all the small intricacies.

[SeaGlass Siren]

a bunch of people in the office where i work at are like that too. one of them flat out told me "who does that child think she is telling me what to do"...except the thing is i kinda control their paycheques and i'm the office admin and process/reject their orders if its not up to code? :| ...i think we're digressing.

[SeaGlass Siren]

"If you are inclined to view something as negative you will find a way to do so come hell or high water."

None of the people on here would ever do that. if people see something negative its only natural to point it out and be like "hey its not right" yknow? but they wont go intentionally looking for something small and pick at it.. (like seriously who does that lol)

[Mermaid Oshun]

I will tell you who... "haste makes waste" haters for one.

[SeaGlass Siren]

i don't think that was intentional though .__.

[Mermaid Oshun]

Perhaps just subconscious... no not intentional.

[OceanRose]

Without realising there was an issue until I saw this, I was going to quote Golden Pearl in a post somewhere saying its one of the best advice on here, and something most of us (at some point) have experienced; we GET TOO EXCITED and all mercraycray and we MESS UP because we don't slow down and think of consequences.
Your words (and the thread in general) echoed in my head as I almost hacked away at my resin out of haste this morning.

But yeah. Some people like to learn by themselves. How do you know that, though? Sometimes things are taken well, sometimes not.
I didn't see a problem in the thread but clearly others did.

[Echidna]

seeing Golden Pearl make another hurtful comment in a tailmaking thread is really upsetting for those of us who are aware of other posts she has made. Enough is enough.....it's time to make sure we are all supporting each other if we want this community to continue to be open and accepting

While I see where you're coming from, I wouldn't have registered that comment as a "hurtful told-you-so".
What I think is beside the point, since this didn't involve me.

However, I'm a bit bothered if a certain person is always called out for phrasing something in a way some don't like, while a myriad of equally stupid remarks by other posters are met with humour and good-will.

I've read (and received) comments that were unbased on fact, demeaning, and intended to be hurtful as well,
but no one called those posters out in particular.
I didn't either, because my time is precious and frankly, I cba to argue about every silly little thing;
but I really dislike singling someone out.

[PearlieMae]

Ok My comment to Julz was meant to give advice on how she could paint the tail without it peeling off as I had been through the exact same thing myself last Summer.. I offered a SOLUTION. Since when is offering a solution to a problem a bad thing? It is all about perception. If you are inclined to view something as negative you will find a way to do so come hell or high water.

No, you did NOT offer a solution, your first words were "that's why I told you..." That entire exchange has NO solution offered. Neither is "hate makes waste" helpful, nor a solution.

Good luck with your personal crisis, your graduate study on your way to becoming a psychologist/psychiatrist/whatever, while using all your spare time from your advanced studies to become a full time tailmaker (get a magnet to recover all the pins and needles), watching teen drama mermaid shows, developing a translucent fluke, (how original), making scaled shoes, soliciting designs for another tail (merdusa) without offering anything in return until I mentioned something, remaking poor Yulia's free tail no one has ever seen, swimming WITHOUT A TAIL BECAUSE YOU THINK IT FEELS MORE NATURAL, making a nother free tail for a dying child for an organization you refuse to name, complaining about how much of your own money you are spending at every opportunity, private messaging me to ask for measurements and tailmaking advice, and reshuffling your personal deck until your race card comes to the top. You announce products you are making WITH PRICING and not even a prototype to show.

You know, you've never mentioned anything about your being a mermaid until a couple of days ago.

Am I forgetting anything? Oh yeah, everyone attacks you. Before you get your butthairs in a tangle, I am NOT singling you out.

Good luck not alienating everyone over on merforum. Dramatic enough, yet?

I'm sick and tired of biting my tongue.

[Elle]

It sucks that you cant deliver tone in posts. I think if there was that kind of ability our drama thread would be much smaller. I think a lot of people on here can say that at some point or another some one has posted something that has hurt them in some way shape or form. Some times advice comes across as just plain criticism nothing constructive what so ever. And when you're typing sometimes words get left out by accident making a comment sound worse than it was intended.

If the comment had been "dude that sucks. I hope you can salvage as much as possible. If not you can always try again. Just take your time and have fun" no one would've given it a second thought.

Was it bad phrasing? Yes. Was it ment as a personal attack? I dont think so

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Mermaid Oshun]

I hear your deep anger. I send you love :group hug:

[Mermaid Oshun]

@pm

[SeaGlass Siren]

sorry hold on this is way off topic but whats wrong with not swimming in a tail? :( i swim without my tail all the time, it feels so nice to have water run all over the body

[PearlieMae]

Nothing is wrong with it. I swim with just my fin a lot. I just prefer to swim with a tail. I think it's odd to be mer and state you prefer to swim without it.

Obviously, everything I said is my own observation.

GP, I hope you find peace.

[Elle]

sorry hold on this is way off topic but whats wrong with not swimming in a tail? :( i swim without my tail all the time, it feels so nice to have water run all over the body

I think it was a list of pissed offness... there isnt anything wrong with swimming with out a tail.

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[Mermaid Oshun]

likewise pm & all my fellow mers. I wish you all peace, gratitude & love

[SeaGlass Siren]

ok. :) now that it looks like its been settled, lets all migrate to the cheese and butts thread

[Jessica]

Ok My comment to Julz was meant to give advice on how she could paint the tail without it peeling off as I had been through the exact same thing myself last Summer.. I offered a SOLUTION. Since when is offering a solution to a problem a bad thing? It is all about perception. If you are inclined to view something as negative you will find a way to do so come hell or high water.

Giving someone helpful advice does NOT include the phrase "that's why I told you"

It's very condescending and unfriendly and has nothing to do with anyone being unable to take advice from others. If you want people to listen to your advice and take you seriously, it's best to consider phrasing your advice in a different manner.

I'm not a negative person, and I don't appreciate your comment.

Caltuna,
you're right, sometimes people post things and no one ever calls them out on it. Is it fair? No, but unless someone cares nothing is going to change. My point is simply that this isn't a "pearl bashing" and that this isn't random. This wasn't the first time Golden pearl said something out of line(whether you agree with my opinion on that or not) and I'm really tired of people making mean comments and no one ever saying anything. I don't like to single people out either, but in this case I think it's necessary in order to prevent other people from feeling hurt or alienated on here. If we never speak up, nothing will ever change.

Elle,

you bring up an excellent point....you can't hear a persons tone in a post. It still doesn't excuse hurtful/insensitive comments though

that's why it's so important for everyone to think before posting :)

[Elle]

Elle,

you bring up an excellent point....you can't hear a persons tone in a post. It still doesn't excuse hurtful/insensitive comments though

that's why it's so important for everyone to think before posting :)

Indeed! Probably 80% of my time of here is spent rechecking what im about to post. I think if a little extra time is spent thinking about what your going to post instead of just straight up posting whatever you can think of, a lot of time could be saved.

Speaking from experience a poor choice of words can make for an ugly experience.

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[SeaGlass Siren]

if everything was in chat format it would be easier personally :P like the chat box on the main page. i personally hate typing paragraphs because then things get misinterpreted or gets read into too much. oneliners for me.

[PearlieMae]

ok. :) now that it looks like its been settled, lets all migrate to the cheese and butts thread

Cheese always before butts. Nobody wants butt cheese. :)

[SeaGlass Siren]

Cheese always before butts. Nobody wants butt cheese. :)
eww lol

[Echidna]

that's why it's so important for everyone to think before posting :)

well, I re-read my posts a lot (I fail at spelling) and often re-phrase to not step on someone's toes, but even so, there's bound to be someone who is offended no matter what.
Not saying this was the case too here, but I can relate.

Judging from PearlieMae's longer post there, it also wasn't GoldenPearl's phrasing that was the problem at all, but rather many things piling up that bothered her.

I'll leave this and the buttcheese to those who like it though :p

[Kae]

Being a chronic sufferer of foot-in-mouth, I think it's not just what was said. Sometimes we say things, and people take them a totally different way. When this happens to me it can be upsetting, especially if I end up hurting someone's feelings unintentionally.

But when it comes down to it, insisting what you said wasn't mean or hurtful doesn't help anyone. If it was perceived as hurtful by those who hear (or read) it then it was. Regardless of your original intentions. The best thing to do in this situation is to swallow your pride and say "That wasn't meant to be hurtful, I'm very sorry."

Trust me! It goes a long way. I would know. :/

[SeaGlass Siren]

Zen didn't say anything about it either so we probably shouldn't be speaking for others ._.

[Winged Mermaid]

No, you did NOT offer a solution, your first words were "that's why I told you..." That entire exchange has NO solution offered. Neither is "hate makes waste" helpful, nor a solution.

Good luck with your personal crisis, your graduate study on your way to becoming a psychologist/psychiatrist/whatever, while using all your spare time from your advanced studies to become a full time tailmaker (get a magnet to recover all the pins and needles), watching teen drama mermaid shows, developing a translucent fluke, (how original), making scaled shoes, soliciting designs for another tail (merdusa) without offering anything in return until I mentioned something, remaking poor Yulia's free tail no one has ever seen, swimming WITHOUT A TAIL BECAUSE YOU THINK IT FEELS MORE NATURAL, making a nother free tail for a dying child for an organization you refuse to name, complaining about how much of your own money you are spending at every opportunity, private messaging me to ask for measurements and tailmaking advice, and reshuffling your personal deck until your race card comes to the top. You announce products you are making WITH PRICING and not even a prototype to show.

You know, you've never mentioned anything about your being a mermaid until a couple of days ago.

Am I forgetting anything? Oh yeah, everyone attacks you. Before you get your butthairs in a tangle, I am NOT singling you out.

Good luck not alienating everyone over on merforum. Dramatic enough, yet?

I'm sick and tired of biting my tongue.

I see both sides of seeing what was said by Golden Peral as hurtful and helpful. To me it matters how the person takes it and how the person that said it reacts if it's not taken well. Like there have been times when someone found a comment hurtful and said so, then the person that said it replied that they didn't meant it to be that way at all and apologized. In this recent case Zen took it in stride and didn't seem to be hurt. I believe people are trying to point out that they believe that Golden Pearl has a little lack in tact. That may be so, or it may be that she's just a very to-the-point person and it comes off as insensitive when she didn't mean it that way at all. So I think there needs to be consideration BOTH ways.

I know I'VE needed to think more about what I say and how, because sometimes me being to the point and short can come off as rude. Golden Pearl could use some practice in that. I know I had a PM exchange with her in walking away and coming back when she can reply with a cool head, rather than getting wrapped up in the moment. It's something that can be hard to do so I commend her for putting that into practice right after we talked about it. (Well done GP!) I think that the fact that she's trying to change at least speaks in her favor.

For the rest of you, maybe try and be more understanding. Don't assume that she's being brash- try and read her posts in a different, more sincere, tone. Like the whole "haste makes waste" thing.

Pearlie, Golden Pearl is trying to walk away from this and move on. So your post was uncalled for IMO. I know you're frustrated, but that was really harsh! There were obvious tone indicators in there that you meant it to be taken that way, and some obvious jabs at her. It's become more and more clear that you two don't get along. If you can't get along with someone, put them on your ignore list. It's not a perfect system, but it certainly helps, and that's why the function is there in the first place. If you guys chose not to do that then you are going to HAVE to work at understanding each other better and getting along. Your choice.

So, in ending, take it down a few knotches or I'mma have to pull an eel whip on you.

17865

And we all know an eel whip is precursor to the ban hammer. So let's not go there.

[Mermaid Oshun]

Please stop! I am homeless tonight. I had several pipes to burst due to freezing weather and the heat and water are all off at my house as a result. I had to move OUT of my house and find some place to stay. All I have to anchor me is my laptop and my portable wifi. All you all can talk about is whether I was nice enough by telling zen to take his time. Meanwhile I am in the street with my laptop wondering where I wil live ! :headwall:
I said I was trying to be helpful What more do you want for me to kill myself?

[Mermaid Kelda]

^ not completely true, i disagreed about the race thing because it was uncalled for. the physically harming thing i think we can all also agree that was uncalled for. the only thing i didn't see wrong with was the rooster-fight comparison... because again *insert its part of my culture here* and i think we were misreading what she was trying to say. but that's all done and set aside so lets not go into that.
Sorry, I'm just going to butt in here and point out that it wasn't the fact she compared the competition to a cock fight that was the issue - we all know what a cock fight is, and I think everyone understood that GP felt the competition might be in bad blood and "to the death" so to speak.

The issue was that she said the competition must have been thought up entirely by men or male-minded women. Not only does this speak negatively of the people who did come up with the competition, it also reinforces harmful gender stereotypes. The whole men are from mars women are from venus thing is old hat and, to some, offensive.

That being said, Golden Pearl, I agree Pearlie's last post was bordering less on drama and more on outright personal attack, but no one wants you to kill yourself! It can be easy to be over the top on forums where you can't see or physically interact with a person. I'm sorry you're having troubles with your home, and I hope you sort everything out soon. No one deserves to be without a place to sleep.

[deepblue]

17865


This is the most awesome comic panel ever. And it's now my new FB cover photo.

[Echidna]

It's pretty cruel (and probably damaging) for the eel though! :(

[Elle]

It's pretty cruel (and probably damaging) for the eel though! :(

Poor eel

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[deepblue]

No, no- I asked a nearby eel that recently, and some of them volunteer for it. I didn't ask why. I don't want to know.

Also, I've had Devo (http://youtu.be/j_QLzthSkfM) in my head since I saw that panel.

[Winged Mermaid]

No, no- I asked a nearby eel that recently, and some of them volunteer for it. I didn't ask why. I don't want to know.


:rotfl:

[Merman Arion]

I don't mean to get tail slapped in the face by some of you for this but I think Pearlie made a pretty fair point. While her post may be seen as a personal attack, her observations were mine as well but I decided to not tell. Pearlie has just been honest and spoke her mind. I don't blame her for that.
I think there is a limit to how much we can handle in ourselves and like Pearlie just said, she was tired to "bite her own tongue" to spare GP's feelings while it's the "ugly truth". If she didn't speak her mind, someone else would have done it. I would have done it I think. Perhaps not in the same way though.
Does that make me a bad guy? I don't know. I'm nobody's slave but the truth's. I'm defending Pearlie because we are the same. We both believe that communication is key and there are things that need to be said. This is the drama thread, we are all entitled to express our opinions. However, I agree with Iona, we could all be careful with the choice of words and tones so that things can be worked out in a peaceful way.

Edit : Golden Pearl, remember that I have no hate for you.


Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[AniaR]

If the forum gets to a point its affecting your real life its time for a break. There's no shame in it. I took one this time last year because drama was affecting my real life and I was arguing with so many people here. It was good. I took a breather and came back much more tolerant.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[PearlieMae]

Raina, Eloquently put!

Arion, :hug:

[SeaGlass Siren]

Do we want you to kill yourself? Are you serious? Previously when I made the comment about being concerned about your mental health it was directly because of comments like this.



I think it was said like... Wait hold on I have the perfect things for this.

"what do you want from us? Do you want us to bleed????" it was from a britney spears clip years go

[AniaR]

If it wasn't serious I think its a huge over reaction and insensitive. If its serious then I suggest a forum break. Either way I find it alarming based on her previous comments. Pearls post are very drastically up or down with no identifiable transitions in between. Its concerning.

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[MerEmma]

I haven't posted here at all but I've been following along with all the drama...and man is it hard to keep the two different Pearl's straight in my head. :P

[PearlieMae]

I haven't posted here at all but I've been following along with all the drama...and man is it hard to keep the two different Pearl's straight in my head. :P

Welcome to my world...

[Mer_Adella]

I haven't posted here at all but I've been following along with all the drama...and man is it hard to keep the two different Pearl's straight in my head. :P

bah! not hard for me...when I B!tched about my mother in law and christmas...I specifically remember PearlieMae telling me to invite my mother-in-law for a pagen christmas celebration where we would dance naked around a fire in the snow and she is more than welcome to join as that is how we were celebrating that year. Lol. That made me spit out my pop when I read it the first time. Hence, after that I remember that PearlieMae is the one with the most random comments that will make you die laughing.

[Merman Arion]

bah! not hard for me...when I B!tched about my mother in law and christmas...I specifically remember PearlieMae telling me to invite my mother-in-law for a pagen christmas celebration where we would dance naked around a fire in the snow and she is more than welcome to join as that is how we were celebrating that year. Lol. That made me spit out my pop when I read it the first time. Hence, after that I remember that PearlieMae is the one with the most random comments that will make you die laughing.

Totally! That woman is definitely a keeper! :D

[PearlieMae]

I thought I was being pretty specific. ;)

[AniaR]

I enjoy pearliemaes running commentary lol

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[SeaGlass Siren]

Haha!!! Found it!!

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/99/99sdemarco.phtml snl script

[SeaGlass Siren]

Forum break I think that can be agreed with.

[deepblue]

If someone's having a genuine mental health crisis, they need to call a crisis hotline.

http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

1-800-273-TALK (tel:18002738255)(8255)

Because while members of a forum can often offer a degree of support, someone who is truly feeling that suicidal needs more than that. And you know, it's not really fair to post about something so deadly serious on a forum where no one can really help and it often leaves people who do care about you feeling helpless and very worried. If you really are suicidal- if I knew your address I'd call 911 and have paramedics dispatched to you immediately. It's not something to *ever* say lightly, so it ought to be taken seriously- and taken off forum. Yeah, I'm not a mod, but I've been one on other forums, if there is one thing that a forum cannot deal with properly, it's true, actual suicidal issues. Even if this were garnering lots of virtual hugs, that does not fix a truly suicidal urge.


Regardless of how I feel about GP's posts in general, I don't want anyone who is genuinely in crisis to not know where to go. On one hand, I really hope she's not using the idea to manipulate the situation, but her posts make me think that is possibly the case. On the other hand, I hope she's just being a drama queen because I don't want anyone to really be suicidal. It all sucks, this ALL sucks.

And now I'm not going to look at this thread for a while. This forum is usually like a cool, deep dive into comfort. I'm going to retain that- this thread just got a lot less entertaining.

[AniaR]

Totally agree which is why I brought it up. If she's sincere she needs help. If not, I'd prefer people not say things like that within these sorts of circumstances. I have suicide intervention training and using it as manipulation under minds people who really go through it. I'm not accusing GP of that, but it bothers me whenever someone calls her on behaviour instead of being accountable there seems to always be something presented as a crisis. Meanwhile , though Pearlie may and I bash heads with people in the community we hold ourselves accountable and agree to disagree when needed. We try to let things go when it seems the community wants that. And we dont use excuses for our words and opinions.

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[AniaR]

Believe me I felt really shitty this time last year with my issues with kanti. But I wouldn't excuse our issues by trying to claim it was my culture or she was being racist or publicly suggest she was making me suicidal unless she actually was.

Goldenpearl I stand by my first statement. If the forum is really making you feel that bad please take a break and seek help. We are hashing things out here, its the drama thread. But no ones intention is anything beyond trying to hold each other to a certain standard of communication on the forum in this particular instance.

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[PearlieMae]

Totally agree which is why I brought it up. If she's sincere she needs help. If not, I'd prefer people not say things like that within these sorts of circumstances. I have suicide intervention training and using it as manipulation under minds people who really go through it. I'm not accusing GP of that, but it bothers me whenever someone calls her on behaviour instead of being accountable there seems to always be something presented as a crisis. Meanwhile , though Pearlie may and I bash heads with people in the community we hold ourselves accountable and agree to disagree when needed. We try to let things go when it seems the community wants that. And we dont use excuses for our words and opinions.

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Thank you, Raina! :clap:

---

I know I can be less than eloquent, but I will admit when I was wrong, and I will defend myself when I think I'm right. But I hardly EVER make excuses. Call me on my bullshit and present your case, but be prepared to get it right back.

"I have made no such pretension. I have faults enough, but they are not, I hope, of understanding. My temper I dare not vouch for. It is, I believe, too little yielding—certainly too little for the convenience of the world. I cannot forget the follies and vices of other so soon as I ought, nor their offenses against myself. My feelings are not puffed about with every attempt to move them. My temper would perhaps be called resentful. My good opinion once lost is lost forever."
– Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen

[SeaGlass Siren]

Believe me I felt really shitty this time last year with my issues with kanti. But I wouldn't excuse our issues by trying to claim it was my culture or she was being racist or publicly suggest she was making me suicidal unless she actually was.

Goldenpearl I stand by my first statement. If the forum is really making you feel that bad please take a break and seek help. We are hashing things out here, its the drama thread. But no ones intention is anything beyond trying to hold each other to a certain standard of communication on the forum in this particular instance.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

to be fair she didnt bring it up this time. she said her grandmother said it. i was the one who brought up the language thing :P oops.

[AniaR]

I'm talking in general since it keeps popping up. I'm looking at the whole spectrum here not the one sentence

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

ohh ok

[Mermaid Lilium]

Okay, so I tried to take the time it took to eat dinner, to try and cool my head down and think through what I wanted to say here.

I'm going to break this down into two options.

1) if GP was serious in her comment throwing suicide out as an option
- If this is the case, it is not healthy to have thoughts considering it as an option, thoughts like this class as mental illness and just like if you hurt your leg or got a bad virus, you should seek help. If you react to stressful situations with suicidal thoughts, please please please don't let it fester and think 'oh I'll be okay' because you don't know what next stress-point is just round the corner.

2)If GP did not mean it and used it off-handedly or on purpose
I'll break this down into these sub options (trying to keep things as clear as possible)

- If it was used as an 'off-hand' comment or as a coloquial reference, PLEASE do not do so again, and this goes for anyone on this forum.
I understand it can be seen as a way to make a dramatic point but there are people on here (including myself!) who deal with depression and suicidal thoughts. Using such a reference flippantly is not only distrespectful to those people struggling with it for real, but can act as a trigger for specific thought patterns - the same sort of reasons why people often post trigger warnings on certain sexually abusive references, or for eating disorder related material or imagery. Same goes for any references to self harm, not just suicide. A comparible phrase would be someone flippantly using something like 'oh my god, that's so gay!'.

I hope that gives you an idea. Just because it's used flippantly, doesn't mean that it's not offensive to use it. I also stand by the concept that I am RESPONSIBLE for the words that I type or speak, so even if those are taken as being offensive, no matter what I apologise - I explain that it was not my intention to cause offense, and that I'm sorry if they were, and then often to to re-word/explain what I was originally trying to explain to further show I wasn't intending to cause offense

- If it was used on purpose then I have to call anyone out on such use for the same reasons I just explained in the last bit. To do so is crass, disrespectful and just downright wrong. Using such a phrase to emotionally manipulate others is a concept that makes me so incredibly angry, that I couldn't even explain. I will offer an explanation in that I grew up with a father who used the threat of suicide and/or attempts to emotionally control my family to continue emotionally abusing us all. Another explanation for why I cannot just walk away from this sort of comment, when I can just observe on everything else. literally THIS weekend one of my oldest friends from online (I've known her since I was 13) had her kid brother go missing and then turn up DEAD by his own gun. This stuff is REAL and affects the people around you, often people who would never tell you what's going on in their heads of behind closed doors. (-Breatheeeee-)

My final comment is that I have lived with too many manipulative people and known too many compulsive liers and (in my personal opinion) I can definately see certain patterns in things that have been brought up (I do agree that there seems to be a pattern of handily timed crisises, BUT those may well just be coincidence as I personally know that life can be that mean), that could be construed as similar behaviour to those I know/knew, but I have no proof myself or reason to say more on that matter in this case. Just saying that I can understand why people might feel the need to 'call out' certain behaviours, which is often a good thing when dealing with that sort of behaviour rather than letting it carry on unchecked. But I can also see that there's two sides to everything and wouldn't want to pass anything near 'judgement' on it. Just saying I can see both sides and that 'calling people out' might not necessarily be a bad thing, or at least that people shouldn't have to feel like they can't do so, meaning that it builds up and ends up being vented in posts that end up being worded in a not-so-great way.

[AniaR]

Well said :) And GP I want you to really see what we're doing here is discussing it. I can appreciate after your last post if you come on and read this all and go "Oh God we're still going?" or something like that. Like I said, it's just members hashing out behaviour and communication, in the drama forum until it's time to move on. Sometimes, you don't have to argue your way because people aren't going to see your side. Believe me, when I went through big forum drama last year I wanted to bash my head in because some people couldn't see where I was coming from, but I realized I just had to let it go and it didn't affect my real life and it wasnt that important. Some people still think negatively about me because of that, but really as the phrase goes, "you can't beat a dead horse', there is no sense in me bashing my head against a wall. So I learned from the experience, and while I still stand by what I say, there were several criticisms/concerns the community gave me that I work hard to manage now. So even though I still feel like I was right in the situation, I can see people's points about how I presented it and handled it, and I'm making a real effort a year later not to give into those same habits.

[Mermaid Dottie]

Whew! Go Lilium.
You pretty much explained my thoughts on mentions of suicide perfectly. Thank you!

[Mermaid Lilium]

Whew! Go Lilium.
You pretty much explained my thoughts on mentions of suicide perfectly. Thank you!

Thankyou lol I think it must be my dissertation writing rubbing off on me :')

*re-buries herself in books*

[SeaGlass Siren]

Well said :) And GP I want you to really see what we're doing here is discussing it. I can appreciate after your last post if you come on and read this all and go "Oh God we're still going?" or something like that. Like I said, it's just members hashing out behaviour and communication, in the drama forum until it's time to move on. Sometimes, you don't have to argue your way because people aren't going to see your side. Believe me, when I went through big forum drama last year I wanted to bash my head in because some people couldn't see where I was coming from, but I realized I just had to let it go and it didn't affect my real life and it wasnt that important. Some people still think negatively about me because of that, but really as the phrase goes, "you can't beat a dead horse', there is no sense in me bashing my head against a wall. So I learned from the experience, and while I still stand by what I say, there were several criticisms/concerns the community gave me that I work hard to manage now. So even though I still feel like I was right in the situation, I can see people's points about how I presented it and handled it, and I'm making a real effort a year later not to give into those same habits.
17899

[SeaGlass Siren]

wow raina that really wasn't my intention... i was supporting your post because you said " I realized I just had to let it go ".
and it reminded me of that, which was why i posted that. I did read the whole thing and i did realize you were ending it on a positive note, which is why i also ended with a positive image. didnt realize i bugged you so much.

[Mermaid Lorelei]

I'll admit that I read it the same way SeaGlass. I see what you meant now, though, but pictures can be so tricky without an explanation to go with them. O.O'

Also, the picture with the eel whip... how does that mermaid's bra stay on?...

[PearlieMae]

Also, the picture with the eel whip... how does that mermaid's bra stay on?...


Barnacle glue.

[Rogue Siren]

So I didn't know where to say this.....but maybe I can say it here? XD I just need to say something!

I think Mermaid Melissa blocked me from her facebook page!!! I can no longer comment or like her posts. What the heck?

I mean earlier today (or yesterday maybe, can't remember), I posted "Yuck." Under one of her videos. It was some mermaid bootcamp thing where she was trying to be all badass. Kinda disgusting IMO. I hate people trying to be all tough like that and be cool....it's NOT cool.

Anyway, that's it. That's all I commented. Any other time I interacted with her page it was positive.

Sorry....I just get pissy when my voice gets silenced for stupid little things like that.... x( And since I can no longer interact with the page, I unliked it. Ah well.


Edit: LOL 100th post.

[Merman Arion]

@ Milieu

Are we talking about this video? :confused:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awAzWuzR07s

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Those ladies do not look happy. Kinda looks constipated, big sad frowns at mermaid camp.

[Rogue Siren]

Lol, yep. That's the video.

[Echidna]

yea, that video is pretty horrible xD

[Merman Arion]

I think Mermaid Melissa blocked me from her facebook page!!! I can no longer comment or like her posts. What the heck?

I mean earlier today (or yesterday maybe, can't remember), I posted "Yuck." Under one of her videos. It was some mermaid bootcamp thing where she was trying to be all badass. Kinda disgusting IMO. I hate people trying to be all tough like that and be cool....it's NOT cool.

Anyway, that's it. That's all I commented. Any other time I interacted with her page it was positive.

Sorry....I just get pissy when my voice gets silenced for stupid little things like that.... x( And since I can no longer interact with the page, I unliked it. Ah well.

Honestly, Milieu, I'm gonna side with Melissa on this one.

I'm aware that this might not what you wanna hear but you can only blame yourself for this.
Of course, this video is staged and she's trying to look bossy and cool but I don't see a real problem here. She takes pride of what she's doing, it's her business and her right to do whatever she feels about it. If being bad-ass is disgusting to you, it's your opinion and I respect that although I can understand why she blocked you. You should be aware that you might not be the only one commenting negatively on her page and stuff. There are jealous bitter mean people around in this world and they waste their time trolling. I'm not saying that you are one of them but the only way for Melissa and others is to block people to get peace.

"If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all".

That was that kind of moment and in my opinion you kind of blew it.

[Mermaid Dottie]

I gotta say that I'm with Mileu. If she's only ever commented negatively once, then Melissa or her page mod really overreacted by blocking her from the page. If it were lots of rude or mean comments, I could understand, but just one?
I think that was a little overboard. I get that the video was supposed to be funny, but I didn't find it so. More annoying than anything.
I recently unliked melissa's page as well, because I get really bored with the things she posts, and there's always DOZENS of the same kind of post on her page. Her and Hannah. It's not that I don't like them. I just don't like their Facebook pages.

[Rogue Siren]

I gotta say that I'm with Mileu. If she's only ever commented negatively once, then Melissa or her page mod really overreacted by blocking her from the page. If it were lots of rude or mean comments, I could understand, but just one?
I think that was a little overboard. I get that the video was supposed to be funny, but I didn't find it so. More annoying than anything.
I recently unliked melissa's page as well, because I get really bored with the things she posts, and there's always DOZENS of the same kind of post on her page. Her and Hannah. It's not that I don't like them. I just don't like their Facebook pages.

Yep. Just the one. And if no one ever says anything....well then they'll never find out what's good and what's not. That was just not....

I mean sure, it wasn't exactly constructive criticism, but it was one time. :P

[Mermaid Jaffa]

I follow Melissa on youtube though I'm not subscribed to her channel. I think as a performance artist, she is graceful and elegant. And she does the mermaid swimming very well. Its smooth and when she bends you can't really see her knees, maybe its the expensive tail! But yea, I like her for her swimming, other than that, she needs to get off her super high perch.

I also follow several others on youtube. Good place to learn how to swim like them. Just my 2 cents.

[Mermaid Adriel]

really, that vid is nonsense x.x

[AniaR]

ugh, Melissa. lol I could rant but I guess I'll do the whole if you have nothing nice to say.. lol

[Winged Mermaid]

Melissa blocks a lot of people from her page *shrug* Then again there are tons of trolls, so I really don't blame her for wanting to catch trolls and ban them from her page before they cause any real trouble. And a comment like that seems a lot like something a troll would say. If you had a criticism, think about saying it a more tactful way ;)

I was blocked years ago because there was drama about her on MerYuku and I wouldn't delete it. And in case it wasn't clear, we (admins) don't delete things unless it's spam, or something really bad like someone's personal information (like an address) or porn or something. As I recall it was just someone pointing out that her logo was to protect the environment before all creatures become mythical- and she took her logo and put it on a hummer and was posting pics of it, which seemed a little.. counter productive? So really it was hardly any big deal at all :P

Anyway, I wouldn't take it too personally. And maybe think of being a little more tactful and/or constructive with any criticisms you have :) You wouldn't want someone commenting on your photo or video with, "Yuck." would you?

[Echidna]

I follow Melissa on youtube though I'm not subscribed to her channel. I think as a performance artist, she is graceful and elegant. And she does the mermaid swimming very well. Its smooth and when she bends you can't really see her knees, maybe its the expensive tail! But yea, I like her for her swimming, other than that, she needs to get off her super high perch.

I also follow several others on youtube. Good place to learn how to swim like them. Just my 2 cents.

And?
Milieu was subscribed to Melissa. She liked her, and posted many positive things.
Banning a follower because of one negative comment sounds a bit like overreacting.
(And banning an admin for not deleting stuff speaks volumes, really :rolleyes:)

In Melissa's stead, I'd probably just have posted something like "very educated comment! Care to elaborate?".
Of course, I wouldn't know whether she has indeed a horde of haters and mean-commenters as Arion said, and is therefor a bit sensitive (I've never even looked at her page, or other "big name pro mer" pages for that matter).

But if she does, maybe, just maybe it has something to do with her attitude?
I cannot imagine other celeb mers getting much "hate".
Envy? Probably.
Haters?
Don't think so.

[Merman Arion]

ugh, Melissa. lol I could rant but I guess I'll do the whole if you have nothing nice to say.. lol

This is the drama thread so you are allowed to speak your mind as long as it's not too.. nasty I guess? I mean, as long as there is no cursing word, I suppose you will be fine sharing your opinion. This thread is good for ranting so have at it.

I agree with Iona's comment. Thanks. That's exactly my thoughts. "Yuck" was really harsh for a video which had nothing "disgusting" in the first place.

[Winged Mermaid]

Just a reminder guys- if you want to bring a rant or what might be classified as "drama" on other threads, post in this thread (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1679). It's even stickied to the top of the Everything Else section so people don't have to dig if they want to vent (this one just floats around and sometimes "drifts" back pages on this section of the forum). If you want to rant/vent about personal life drama post in this thread (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1913).

This thread that we're currently in is meant to be a place for admins/mods to move non constructive or dramatic posts from other threads to. (That's why it's all out of context.) You can work out the drama that got moved over, but I prefer if you want to start up something, take it to the other drama thread. I hope that makes sense! It may not to some people but for others I've been told knowing there are different threads for different things is very helpful. :)

But yeah, essentially whatever you want is fine as long as you don't too nasty and of course don't break the rules. :thumbs-up: I I know some people don't like the idea of the drama threads, but these thread were developed after years of experience and I've found they actually help a LOT more than they hurt.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

I can't hate someone based on somebody's else reaction to that person. Just because I like someone's swimming style does not mean I fully endorse or like their other aspects. Its just her way of swimming, and others' way of swimming that appeal to me. I don't know her personally, so I can't judge if she is a good or bad person.

[AniaR]

Milieu I agreed with your comment, but I banned someone recently who always posted nice stuff because they posted a really nasty comment on an article I shared about Jazz and they went on about how she'll go to hell and needs help >.< Obviously, something different than yours :p but yeah, prior to that the person was always nice but transgender really struck a nerve with her and I didnt want people seeing those posts.

I rarely delete posts and ban people, usually just merverts, but I do have my profanity filter set high so sometimes it auto-hides comments and people think it's me. And I never see them >.>

[Merman Arion]

Just a reminder guys- if you want to bring a rant or what might be classified as "drama" on other threads, post in this thread (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1679). It's even stickied to the top of the Everything Else section so people don't have to dig if they want to vent (this one just floats around and sometimes "drifts" back pages on this section of the forum). If you want to rant/vent about personal life drama post in this thread (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1913).

This thread that we're currently in is meant to be a place for admins/mods to move non constructive or dramatic posts from other threads to. (That's why it's all out of context.) You can work out the drama that got moved over, but I prefer if you want to start up something, take it to the other drama thread. I hope that makes sense! It may not to some people but for others I've been told knowing there are different threads for different things is very helpful. :)

My bad, Iona. Good thing to know! I obviously confused the purpose of each thread. :doh:

[Winged Mermaid]

No problem ;) If it irks me I can always move it from one thread to another! I just like to put a reminder out there every now and then because people forget or there are new users, and the old users seem to like to know which thread is which so they can avoid certian kinds of drama.

[Mer_Adella]

ok slightly off topic but as i am watching the .gifs i see raina's and ionas so close together. i gotta know...what monofin do ya'll have? the fluke is soo stiff that when you pull your tails up, it doesn't just FLOP right over! mine when i lay like raina does and tail up in the air it looks weird cus the tips just kinda slump over. sorry this is off topic but as i said i noticed it and had to ask before I forgot again lol.

[Merman Arion]

ok slightly off topic but as i am watching the .gifs i see raina's and ionas so close together. i gotta know...what monofin do ya'll have? the fluke is soo stiff that when you pull your tails up, it doesn't just FLOP right over! mine when i lay like raina does and tail up in the air it looks weird cus the tips just kinda slump over. sorry this is off topic but as i said i noticed it and had to ask before I forgot again lol.

Their merbella tails got a competitor monofin in the fluke. Both of them :)

[Winged Mermaid]

Yup, both competitors :) Waaaaay easier to control the fluke with them, but they still "bounce" and flop a bit in and out of the water- out of water because of the weight of the silicone, in the water because of how the blade flexes for propulsion- for that nice bit of realism.

[Mermaid Lilium]

I will just say that I saw seaglass's post as she intended X_x I read it as a support of raina's saying about just letting things go.

I can see why saying 'yuck' on a video might cause melissa to remove you, it is a troll-looking comment with not enough information or context to justify what you were originally thinking or trying to say - she can't understand what you meant just from one word.

Do I think the video is bad? Yes. But it's staged and supposed to be that way on purpose, their sour expressions are done on purpose, melissa is tring to appear harsh too on purpose. It's called sarcasm. (You can hear them laughing at the end when she makes the comment about the basketball I think.)

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Oh well then. I take it back, they're not constipated ladies!

[Winged Mermaid]

I just want to start off saying that Raven is the original designer of that particular style of mermaid head dress, and I respect her for that. So when I wanted to make one for myself I did ask for her permission :) She said it was fine for me to make them for myself for my personal use, but she wasn't okay with anyone selling that design. I hope others will respect that as well! I see some people sell them and honestly it gets under my skin, but maybe that's just me.
(I asked her if it was okay before I made my first shell top too, since she was the first one to use netting as straps and faux sea weed between the shells and bra. She's an innovator for a lot of our type of fashion that's for sure! ^_^)


Just bumping this quote becuase I'm seeing more people selling Raven's style of head dress. Again, Raven is not okay with people selling that design of head dress, with the netting connecting the two hair clips (few other key design points but that's the big one). She was the person who created that design, and people should respect that she doesn't want others ripping of her designs. She puts up with a LOT of people doing that with all kinds of her original designs (tons of them, for years) but this one she really wants to be her thing. She's fine with people making them for personal use but not to sell. I hope that people will respect her wishes and not resort to design theft, to make money, against her request. Instead find some way to take the inspiration her designs give you and make something unique :) I hope that people will follow this for all original designs. Let others inspire you, but don't copy them! Don't be a bottom feeder ;)

[Mermaid Lorelei]

I do hope she's not bothered by the fact that I made headdresses, seeing as mine are built on solid headbands.

[AniaR]

yeah I don't get how people can complain about tail maker copying but accessories are okay? There's loads of ways to be original and you can still take inspiration while making something new and unique. The sad thing is, when people ask Raven permission to make one for themselves she always says Yes. But I know at least 3 mermaids who totally knock off her head dresses to the last detail. :/

[Winged Mermaid]

I looked at yours and I think you're on track for taking her idea and letting it inspire you :) I'm talking more about people who are totally copying her design down to the small details :/

I'm working on a head dress line myself, but am trying to do a few key things differently to separate from her design.

[Morticia Mermaid]

I hope you guys aren't talking about me :/ I've been working on headdresses, but I've been doing everything I possibly can to set them apart from hers(i.e. putting them on headbands and adding combs for extra support <brilliant idea I had for added support>, adding iridescent film into the greenery, and adding in buttons and pendants into the clusters to try to make them my own design) and trying to base them more on belly dance headdress styles.


Sucks that people are making similar stuff, but it happens in almost every industry

[AniaR]

I actually haven't checked your stuff morti :p so no worries not a passive aggressive attack ;) just some things showing up on my feed and instagram

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Morticia Mermaid]

Ok. Just wanted to check. First few headdresses I made were trial pieces and I gave them away, didn't sell. Only sold 1 and it is the refined design I've created with the headband and Combs

Sent by star fish

[Winged Mermaid]

I took a look at your page photos just now, and you have made several that would fall under what I'm talking about. I bought it up from seeing it other places - though I think one of them I saw that prompted me to post was a customer photo from one that you sold, but there are other ones I'm seeing too.

I'd advise people to just steer completely clear of using netting on/for the headband- if they want to sell it anyhow- because that's the main design point that's Raven's. There are other head dresses hat use hair clips and dangly bits and whatnot, but the netting is her one point that's very clearly her thing.

[Morticia Mermaid]

Like I said, I've only actually sold one- and its the refined design with the headband. I tend to include anyone who has my products (even giveaways, or products randomly given) in the customers section, just fyi.

Question- if fish netting is ravens "thing" what is everyone else supposed to use?

Not trying to nit pick, but I'm sure she could pick a better aspect than that as to what makes hers hers. Just like I like to think that the film I use on mine is what makes mine mine. You know?

Sent by star fish

[Morticia Mermaid]

I'm sorry but, I'm REALLY having a hard time believing that Raven would demand people not use fish netting :/ She seems like such a nice person and to basically demand that people not use fish netting on a product meant for mermaids is kind of out there.

If its really the case and she really has issues with it, I wish she'd personally bring it up. Until then, I'm sorry, but I'm going to keep using fish net (even if its hardly visible through the greenery over the headband).

I just ask that people keep in mind each person makes their products differently. Ravens have amazing shell clusters and really full greenery, mine have valkyrie inspired wing fans backed with colored iridescent film and are built on a headband masked with greenery, Melu likes to include pearls on wirework and strings of tiny shells. Just like with tails, everyone had their own unique quirk that makes it their creation.

Here's a good example of how silly asking people not to use fish netting is- it would be like Thom asking/demanding people not use silicone/urethane to make tails cause that was his thing.

See how silly that sounds?

But, that's just my 2 cents.

Sent by star fish

[Winged Mermaid]

I'm just saying, using for the specific purpose of connecting one clip/one side of the head dress to the other- that is the ONE thing that makes the head dresses very distinctly hers, and she was the first one to do it. That is her original design, her idea. She might not be okay with using any of the design that she made in terms of the mermaid head dress, but I think that's unreasonable, as if you look at any other head dress and translate it over it can end up looking similar to her design. So I nailed down that one aspect, and from what she's said she seems to agree. Yes, Raven is very kind and very understanding (even when people have very blatantly ripped off countless creations of hers over the years) but she is asking that if people respect her work and her to designs to not make them to sell. She doesn't mind if people make them for personal use, and in her words, "I would NEVER tell you what you can or cant sell." but she does not give her blessing to anyone selling them. So in the end it's a matter of if you respect her designs enough not to copy them. If you chose not to respect that, that is up to you. But don't say that even if you use that aspect then you're still respecting her wishes because you're not.




Question- if fish netting is ravens "thing" what is everyone else supposed to use?

Not trying to nit pick, but I'm sure she could pick a better aspect than that as to what makes hers hers. Just like I like to think that the film I use on mine is what makes mine mine. You know?


Because there are other ways to make headdresses than using that very specific way of using netting to connect two hair clips. And she shouldn't "pick a better aspect" becuase she's the one who designed that kind of mermaid head dress in the first place. She shouldn't have to change her original design just becuase so many people are ripping of her designs.

I'm not going to tell you what you can and can't do, neither is Raven. I've just said that she doesn't condone people selling this specific design, and I've said what I believe to be the morally right thing to do. What you do with that is up to you. I just know I personally don't respect people who blatantly rip off others specific designs for their own profit. Especially if the original creator said that they don't want people to do so. Yeah, it limits what I can make and what I can sell, but I'd rather do the right thing. That's my stance and my opinion on this, but in the end you will do what you want to do- I'm not going to fight you over it.

[Merman Arion]

I took a look at your page photos just now, and you have made several that would fall under what I'm talking about. I bought it up from seeing it other places - though I think one of them I saw that prompted me to post was a customer photo from one that you sold, but there are other ones I'm seeing too.

I'd advise people to just steer completely clear of using netting on/for the headband- if they want to sell it anyhow- because that's the main design point that's Raven's. There are other head dresses hat use hair clips and dangly bits and whatnot, but the netting is her one point that's very clearly her thing.

Personally, I agree with Iona. I looked at your photos and they are a lot alike with Raven's headresses.
If these pictures weren't on your page, I would have thought that Raven made them. So yeah, that particular detail with the netting shouldn't be copied. At all. I sincerely feel sorry for Raven because a lot people are pulling an Eric and don't use their creativity to do something different. That's my opinion.

[Mermaid Isabel(:]

I don't plan on selling anything period but I am very confused. There is a thin line between what is copying and what is accepted as "inspiration" in the mer community. Now when someone comes up with a shell bra or hair accessory I agree there are ways to make it unique but it's hard to take shells, seaweed, silicone, and netting and come up with unique designs for everyone. There are going to be overlaps and things that look alike. I appreciate that Raven is ok with us using the netting as long as we don't sell them. I personally am making a headdress that is inspired by her but tried to do a design she hasn't. I used a A LOT more pearls with a line by the face that is purely pearls to hide the edge and used a big starfish and tried to use more greenery that hangs lower http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/5eme2ena.jpg but even though I tried to not copy you can still tell it looks very similar. Now once again not selling it but my point is that it's hard to see something you love and then not be able to make it because you're afraid of getting backlash from people calling you a copy cat. I get afraid to post on here because I don't want to say the wrong thing and have people give me a negative response. And while we're on the topic of copying I really don't want to call a mer out and cause drama please don't hate me but this top is being made to sell http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/qyduheqe.jpg
It's beautiful and lovely but that design looks very similar to this top that Raven makes http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/eza9era9.jpg
Now is this copying or is this just inspiration or an original idea? I guess I'm trying to say that I'm confused why some things are copying and some things are acceptable. I don't want to offend or anger anyone I'm just trying to understand.

[Ariadne]

Looks to me like there are only so many ways to make mermaid accessories "different" and there are only so many features to do it with - scales, fins, netting, shells, seaweed and pearls. Scales and fins to cover our bodies, the rest to place in hair or jewelry. So we are going to see a lot of overlap simply because we are limited as to our resources - trying to be unique, but still having to use the same few items to do it with. If you really look at it, there are only one or two ways to wear netting with shells in your hair and not look goofy, and the "headband" method is the general one (you can tie it around your forehead, but I have to say I cannot pull that look off). There are also only one or two ways to wear a scale bra - halter, strapless or with shoulder straps. A shell bra is going to look the same no matter how creative we try to make it...just because we have few details to work with.

[AniaR]

I can't get anything to load from my phone so again morti not directed at you I haven't even seen em yet. My issue is that nobody made them the way raven did before she did. Once again what she does is viewed as best so it becomes a standard.

I use netting on headbands and make crowns. I don't think it is using betting so much as it is two clips by the ears held by netting in the center and then all the details done to resemble copies of hers. If someone has to ask did raven make that then kudos to someone for being so accurate but try and branch out.

Like I said we can't complain about tail makers copying but then throw accessories to the wind

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

I didn't have half these messages load ugh sorry if my comments seem out of context apparently I missed half of what was said.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Morticia Mermaid]

What Isabel and Ariadne said. This is a small community, and there are only so many ways to make things. Iona, I have busted my ass to set my headdresses apart from hers and to accuse mine of being identical to hers is down right insulting. Does Raven use film in hers? NO. Does she fan the bamboo leaves like I do on mine? NO. Do mine have giant awesome shell clusters, or full greenery? NO and, guess what, NO. This asking/demanding that people NOT use FISH NETTING in a MERMAID product is blatantly ignorant. (also, if RAVEN really feels so strongly about it, why has she said nothing?)

Also, just to put this out there- Iona, didn't you just say that YOU were making headdresses? I've seen you argue this before, but saying that the hanging seaweed was Raven's "thing" (so which is actually Raven's "thing"?). So- how is you being allowed to make headdresses but everyone else can't not elitist? I guarantee that if I was to make something truly unique and ask that no one make anything similar, if people started replicating it you wouldn't bat an eye and would just say that "replication is the best form of flattery", or that there are only so many ways to make things, etc. Everything I am arguing now are things that would be argued against me if I were to claim copycat (and there are people who have begun copying me. Mermaid specific jewelry made with have made chain anyone?)

Isabel was correct. ALL artists and crafters walk a fine line. A line which I fully believe that I have no crossed. Looking at one of my headdresses next to Raven's, I do not see how someone could mistake mine for hers or hers for mine (do I need to list the differences AGAIN?).

And again, if RAVEN feels so strongly about it, then she should come talk to me. Should she do so I would actually consider it, but until then I will continue as I have. I find it so hard to believe that she would get so upset about people "copying" a product she apparently rarely has time to make, specially since she can't seem to keep up with demand for her tails (how hard is it to get a hold of her when she actually has an open spot again?).

Isabel- you shouldn't have to be afraid to post or share, but I completely understand why you feel that way. I felt that way once (now I just don't care). There seems to be a clique issue that happens, joined by what I like to call the band wagon effect. And it seems if you're not either IN the clique, or agree with 90% of what they say then you end up getting a faceful. It's sad that it happens, specially since this is supposed to be a community based on caring and support.

Just a little side not since I have to mention it AGAIN- I have only sold ONE headdress (and it was the one on the headband). Those NOT on a headband were GIVEN to people. So the band wagon effect can just stop now before anyone else climbs on- Mkay? :)

[Morticia Mermaid]

Also, just going to leave these here. The first are Raven's. I thought that the string pearls was Raven's "thing"?

20450

20451

[Aziara]

I'm going to just say that when using the same materials, some overlap is going to happen. Unless you use completely new materials that no one has used before (which is something I'm working on right now, when I get the prototype working out how I like it I'll start making more of them), stuff is going to look similar to some extent.

[AniaR]

I don't really think there's any more point in arguing about it either cuz you're both going to keep doing what you want. No sense melting it into a stone throwing thread of who copies and who doesn't. Iona reminded people what raven said. Either follow it for you reasons or don't follow it for your reasons. Bridges are made and burned in this community everyday.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Jessica]

So I just saw this post and since that's a scale top I made I'm going to throw my opinion out there.

It's a bra---with scales. It's nothing unique at this point. I don't know who made the first scale top--maybe it was raven maybe Eric...I have no idea....but I think scale tops are right up there with tails--are we going to say that someone is copying because they made a silicone tail? I really think the scale top thing is a nonissue and I don't consider it copying anymore than I consider putting a monofin in a tail copying or adding extra fins to tails. Furthermore, I have my own style and options--like adding a seahorse, octopus, turtle...etc. ultimately I make what my friends want though and what brings their mermaid dream to life. That specific top was made to match a tail that I'm starting soon and a design that Goldie and I worked on together. I generally make halter tops, but I do strapless as well.

Honestly i seriously will never understand why this community has become so obsessed with who did what first or if someone has copied someone else. When it comes down to it, we are all artists and we should support each other and draw inspiration from each other--we aren't enemies nor should we be. One of the things I am most excited about is the way so many of us have chosen to be open and share tailmaking information with each other. Pearlie Mae, Jazz, Maria, Lorelei, star, julz, Ashton, Elle, Mizuko, Audre and many more have all shared information and tried to help each other out. I'm always happy to answer tailmaking questions because I want people to achieve their dreams. If I can help I am more than happy to do so.

i made tailmaking threads to help other people. I posted info on how to make silicone scale tops so other people can learn and make their own. Yes, I sell tails and I sell tops and other accessories---but I'm not out to be some big tailmaker, that's not my goal--I'm a performer at heart. I love to create and I love making tails and tops and helping people achieve their dreams of becoming a mermaid. For me it's all about the art. I'm not going to apologize for selling tails or tops or accessories--seeing the first picture of Eva in her tail was such a wonderful moment for me--she was so happy to finally be the mermaid she always dreamed of. And that goldfish top--Goldie was so excited about it! It doesn't matter who made the top or the tail or the hair clip--there's plenty of work to go around and as the community continues to grow there will be an even greater demand on already overworked tailmakers. For the record I sell scale tops, but I really don't make much on them at all. I do it because I enjoy it:) my tops aren't perfect--I'm practicing my skills and tops are a great project to do that and selling them enables me to practice without going into debt on supplies.

Ultimately, my point is simply that this is all about art and making dreams come true. It's time to support each other, learn from each other and continue to share the magic with the world.

[AniaR]

I wanted to show some of the head dresses I've seen over the years for ideas for people.

My friend Lexandria who I have known for a long time now and introduced me to the mer community, was one of the first besides Hannah Fraser that I ever saw making them. She also sold me my first set! Here are some of her work. They're all head-band based.

She's had a couple of FB pages over the years, this one is her most recent: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutlass-Couture/166884546800246

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/225/8/c/delilah_headdress_by_lexandrian-d6hynil.jpg
link: http://lexandrian.deviantart.com/art/Delilah-headdress-392967309

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/280/6/7/mermaid_headdress_by_lexandrian-d5h1ymp.jpg
link: http://lexandrian.deviantart.com/art/mermaid-headdress-330975889

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10177367_704781769574367_1353552319_n.jpg
(pulled from her personal page)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10177367_704781772907700_46250091_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1479346_648469018538976_111303962_n.jpg
(tumblr but no link for some reason, taken from person page)

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t31.0-8/1397693_624951827557362_839753589_o.jpg

One she made me:
https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/179197_183332665034818_4299219_n.jpg

I wish I could find more photos I think she has taken a lot down off the web over the years



Here are others I've found and loved:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/15/2c/6e/152c6e7cfdf4bab3af0b75c4f2f846f5.jpg
(pinterest, no credit)

http://data3.whicdn.com/images/4514327/large.jpg
(we heart it no credit)

https://img1.etsystatic.com/010/2/7921682/il_570xN.441025971_33n1.jpg
(link: https://www.etsy.com/listing/127078956/mermaid-headdress )

https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5446901/il_570xN.200670116.jpg
(link: https://www.etsy.com/listing/57417748/made-to-order-each-one-is-unique-siren )

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/66/d3/6a/66d36a5f45ce875dcad6f4174ec57c64.jpg
(Pinterest, no credit)


http://www.firefly-path.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/sirena(pp_w900_h518).jpg
(link: http://www.firefly-path.net/?p=1553)

https://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5450261/il_fullxfull.226092641.jpg
(link https://www.etsy.com/listing/69786759/washed-ashore-mermaid-headdress )

^ the above link has so many more lovely ones

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ef/db/af/efdbafafe1cc06b5696e264dd0599dd7.jpg
(pinterest, no credit)

https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5949837/il_fullxfull.302776490.jpg
{ link: https://www.etsy.com/listing/90476234/sirens-sister-headdress-reserved-for )

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/2e/2b/25/2e2b25f444b0662505e04f96fe7b82e0.jpg
(pinterest, no credit)

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/bf/d1/b1/bfd1b1534b6809f9629a4ee361df387c.jpg
(Pinterest, no credit)

http://img1.etsystatic.com/019/1/6101958/il_570xN.515955389_2smh.jpg
(link: http://www.etsy.com/listing/166588423/mermaid-fantasy-headdress )

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/e5/75/5a/e5755a9afa7acede57670e4c6e62b58f.jpg
(pinterest, no credit)

^^ this right here is why I DO NOT accept the argument of there's only so much we can do with the materials. If these people can innovate and build upon existing ideas, why can't anyone else?

[PearlieMae]

So I just saw this post and since that's a scale top I made I'm going to throw my opinion out there.

It's a bra---with scales. It's nothing unique at this point. I don't know who made the first scale top--maybe it was raven maybe Eric...I have no idea....but I think scale tops are right up there with tails--are we going to say that someone is copying because they made a silicone tail? I really think the scale top thing is a nonissue and I don't consider it copying anymore than I consider putting a monofin in a tail copying or adding extra fins to tails. Furthermore, I have my own style and options--like adding a seahorse, octopus, turtle...etc. ultimately I make what my friends want though and what brings their mermaid dream to life. That specific top was made to match a tail that I'm starting soon and a design that Goldie and I worked on together. I generally make halter tops, but I do strapless as well.

Honestly i seriously will never understand why this community has become so obsessed with who did what first or if someone has copied someone else. When it comes down to it, we are all artists and we should support each other and draw inspiration from each other--we aren't enemies nor should we be. One of the things I am most excited about is the way so many of us have chosen to be open and share tailmaking information with each other. Pearlie Mae, Jazz, Maria, Lorelei, star, julz, Ashton, Elle, Mizuko, Audre and many more have all shared information and tried to help each other out. I'm always happy to answer tailmaking questions because I want people to achieve their dreams. If I can help I am more than happy to do so.

i made tailmaking threads to help other people. I posted info on how to make silicone scale tops so other people can learn and make their own. Yes, I sell tails and I sell tops and other accessories---but I'm not out to be some big tailmaker, that's not my goal--I'm a performer at heart. I love to create and I love making tails and tops and helping people achieve their dreams of becoming a mermaid. For me it's all about the art. I'm not going to apologize for selling tails or tops or accessories--seeing the first picture of Eva in her tail was such a wonderful moment for me--she was so happy to finally be the mermaid she always dreamed of. And that goldfish top--Goldie was so excited about it! It doesn't matter who made the top or the tail or the hair clip--there's plenty of work to go around and as the community continues to grow there will be an even greater demand on already overworked tailmakers. For the record I sell scale tops, but I really don't make much on them at all. I do it because I enjoy it:) my tops aren't perfect--I'm practicing my skills and tops are a great project to do that and selling them enables me to practice without going into debt on supplies.

Ultimately, my point is simply that this is all about art and making dreams come true. It's time to support each other, learn from each other and continue to share the magic with the world.

BRAVA! :clap:

[Merman Arion]

HAIL JESSICA :clap:


Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk

[AniaR]

P.s., Raven told me she loved Iona's earring ideas because Iona found a way to take inspiration from her style while still being unique. I own that pair you showed and I freaking love them.

I think at this point, Raven has just accepted the fact that she continues to set the standard for the community. It's not all drama behind the scenes, like OMG Raina look so and so is copying me go get them! Fight and win!!! lol. It's more a general roll of the eyes and ah, well back to the drawing board to try and create something totally new again. I think there's a difference between artists and people whose priority it to sell. When your priority is to sell you want the formula that works, that is popular, that you know will make money. But when youre creating for the sake of trying to bring your vision to life, you get so busy on that end of it you forget to sell. Raven literally has tubs and tubs (I know, she's shown me, lol) of stunning head dresses waiting to be listed on etsy, of brand new never before seen in this community innovating tops (let's not forget she invented the silicone sea weed top too which is now suddenly standard), bracers (which others are making now too) and some creative upcycling of unused scale swatches which I hope she brings to light because they're so cool. I'm really excited for when she is finished her current slew of tails, because all that stuff is going up on etsy and people will flip!

But really, it's just the tip of the iceberg for things they're going to be putting out there.

[Goldie]

I am sorry but the gold top is made the way I wanted. It is BEAUTIFUL and I love it and all she did was make me exaclty what I asked for and chose colors and shape for. She made me an extra sparkley gold. I love it <3

[Aziara]

*gapes at beautiful headdresses* ok, Imma go hide now. I never imagined such variety was possible.... And well said, Jessica!

[Mermaid Isabel(:]

So I just saw this post and since that's a scale top I made I'm going to throw my opinion out there.

It's a bra---with scales. It's nothing unique at this point. I don't know who made the first scale top--maybe it was raven maybe Eric...I have no idea....but I think scale tops are right up there with tails--are we going to say that someone is copying because they made a silicone tail? I really think the scale top thing is a nonissue and I don't consider it copying anymore than I consider putting a monofin in a tail copying or adding extra fins to tails. Furthermore, I have my own style and options--like adding a seahorse, octopus, turtle...etc. ultimately I make what my friends want though and what brings their mermaid dream to life. That specific top was made to match a tail that I'm starting soon and a design that Goldie and I worked on together. I generally make halter tops, but I do strapless as well.

Honestly i seriously will never understand why this community has become so obsessed with who did what first or if someone has copied someone else. When it comes down to it, we are all artists and we should support each other and draw inspiration from each other--we aren't enemies nor should we be. One of the things I am most excited about is the way so many of us have chosen to be open and share tailmaking information with each other. Pearlie Mae, Jazz, Maria, Lorelei, star, julz, Ashton, Elle, Mizuko, Audre and many more have all shared information and tried to help each other out. I'm always happy to answer tailmaking questions because I want people to achieve their dreams. If I can help I am more than happy to do so.

i made tailmaking threads to help other people. I posted info on how to make silicone scale tops so other people can learn and make their own. Yes, I sell tails and I sell tops and other accessories---but I'm not out to be some big tailmaker, that's not my goal--I'm a performer at heart. I love to create and I love making tails and tops and helping people achieve their dreams of becoming a mermaid. For me it's all about the art. I'm not going to apologize for selling tails or tops or accessories--seeing the first picture of Eva in her tail was such a wonderful moment for me--she was so happy to finally be the mermaid she always dreamed of. And that goldfish top--Goldie was so excited about it! It doesn't matter who made the top or the tail or the hair clip--there's plenty of work to go around and as the community continues to grow there will be an even greater demand on already overworked tailmakers. For the record I sell scale tops, but I really don't make much on them at all. I do it because I enjoy it:) my tops aren't perfect--I'm practicing my skills and tops are a great project to do that and selling them enables me to practice without going into debt on supplies.

Ultimately, my point is simply that this is all about art and making dreams come true. It's time to support each other, learn from each other and continue to share the magic with the world.

I agree with you 110% I hope I didn't offend you by using your top as an example I wasn't in any way trying to call you a copycat I just wanted to show people that there are lots of things that look similar and there's such a thin line of what the community is and isn't accepting of. I agree with you that there is a sudden outburst of people concerned with copying. I joined the community because I saw threads of people sharing how to make things and helping each other. But now when you make something it might be considered a disrespectful copy. Jessica everything you make is lovely and I really wasn't trying to hurt your feelings. I just want everyone to be loving and do their own thing. If there are so many ways to do headbands and whatnot then how exactly do we do something unique. We might not do the net rigging headband so we don't copy Raven but then when we do something like one of the flowery headbands Raina shared then we're copying who made those. See what I mean? There may be LOTS of options but eventually we'll run out of ideas and have to do similar things. I don't condone copying don't get me wrong but Mertailer is making silicone bikini bottoms and I believe someone else in this forum was too at one point. So when others want to try to make them is that copying? I guess I'm just confused what's right and wrong. I haven't really dealt with making things and selling them so I can't know how the artists feel about copying and creating things similar. I just know I won't be making many things because I don't want to be a "copy cat"

[Winged Mermaid]

What Isabel and Ariadne said. This is a small community, and there are only so many ways to make things. Iona, I have busted my ass to set my headdresses apart from hers and to accuse mine of being identical to hers is down right insulting. Does Raven use film in hers? NO. Does she fan the bamboo leaves like I do on mine? NO. Do mine have giant awesome shell clusters, or full greenery? NO and, guess what, NO. This asking/demanding that people NOT use FISH NETTING in a MERMAID product is blatantly ignorant. (also, if RAVEN really feels so strongly about it, why has she said nothing?)

Also, just to put this out there- Iona, didn't you just say that YOU were making headdresses? I've seen you argue this before, but saying that the hanging seaweed was Raven's "thing" (so which is actually Raven's "thing"?). So- how is you being allowed to make headdresses but everyone else can't not elitist? I guarantee that if I was to make something truly unique and ask that no one make anything similar, if people started replicating it you wouldn't bat an eye and would just say that "replication is the best form of flattery", or that there are only so many ways to make things, etc. Everything I am arguing now are things that would be argued against me if I were to claim copycat (and there are people who have begun copying me. Mermaid specific jewelry made with have made chain anyone?)

Isabel was correct. ALL artists and crafters walk a fine line. A line which I fully believe that I have no crossed. Looking at one of my headdresses next to Raven's, I do not see how someone could mistake mine for hers or hers for mine (do I need to list the differences AGAIN?).

And again, if RAVEN feels so strongly about it, then she should come talk to me. Should she do so I would actually consider it, but until then I will continue as I have. I find it so hard to believe that she would get so upset about people "copying" a product she apparently rarely has time to make, specially since she can't seem to keep up with demand for her tails (how hard is it to get a hold of her when she actually has an open spot again?).

Isabel- you shouldn't have to be afraid to post or share, but I completely understand why you feel that way. I felt that way once (now I just don't care). There seems to be a clique issue that happens, joined by what I like to call the band wagon effect. And it seems if you're not either IN the clique, or agree with 90% of what they say then you end up getting a faceful. It's sad that it happens, specially since this is supposed to be a community based on caring and support.

Just a little side not since I have to mention it AGAIN- I have only sold ONE headdress (and it was the one on the headband). Those NOT on a headband were GIVEN to people. So the band wagon effect can just stop now before anyone else climbs on- Mkay? :)


I never accused your headdresses being identical to hers. I said you were using a key point that Raven used when she created those type of head dresses- the specific point that sets hers apart. And I'm not demanding anything. Again-


I'm not going to tell you what you can and can't do, neither is Raven. I've just said that she doesn't condone people selling this specific design, and I've said what I believe to be the morally right thing to do. What you do with that is up to you. I just know I personally don't respect people who blatantly rip off others specific designs for their own profit. Especially if the original creator said that they don't want people to do so. Yeah, it limits what I can make and what I can sell, but I'd rather do the right thing. That's my stance and my opinion on this, but in the end you will do what you want to do- I'm not going to fight you over it.


I made on headdress so far, and I made it with Raven's permission for personal use. You can see that earlier in this thread. Also yes, I'm making head dresses for sale, but they will not include the netting- I'm going to be doing various other things with them to make them unique. Which is what was suggesting suggest other people do as well. Pretty over the top calling me an "elitist" over that.
I've also talked to Raven about my various designs and style becuase I didn't want to rip off her wares, and I admit that I am very influenced by her style. She told me, "I think you are a perfect example of "Inspired by" not "ripped off" ya know? I know I inspire people and honestly I love that! I just wish more people understood the difference. I see your style and I think its great!"

I've stayed quiet about other mers on Etsy blatantly ripping of Raven for years, and Raven has too. But Raven just wants to retain ONE small point of ONE design, out of hundreds of designs that people copy, and suddenly it's "blatantly ignorant"? Sounds like an excuse for people not to feel guilty about it to me. Well, no matter. Raven doesn't say anything publically becuase she doesn't like getting involved in drama, and though a TON of heart ache she's realized people will always copy her designs, no matter what she says or does. She' copes in her own way- by always changing and growing and cranking out new designs to keep ahead of the wave of copy cats. Cause she's awesome that way ;)


Also I like how you claim to know what I would and wouldn't do, when I've done just the opposite of what you've said on this forum and on MerYuku before you were even around, and since then on here and many other social media sites. I actually have mermaids PMing me and thanking me all the time for that because I go out of my way to help them and standing up for them with photo/art/design theft. Funny that ;)

You're acting like I made my post as a personal attack on you- I didn't. I've seen many people doing the same and I wanted to say something. If you take that personally, that's on you.

[Morticia Mermaid]

Nope, not taking it personally at all. But, you wouldn't know cause you don't know me :)

Also, I didn't call you elitist, I asked how it wasn't. Never said that YOU said my stuff was identical, but people have. Try not to trust my wording to suit ;)

Also, just a side note- I've had about 16 people message me via FB saying that they agree with me about everything I've said. So, no guilt here. Like I've said numerous times, if raven feels so strongly about it, all she had to do is say so. Or better yet, patent it. Then she wouldn't have to worry about people "copying" it.

oh, and to the person that decided to be immature and message my husband saying I was cheating on him, 1- not cool 2- he knows better, so nice try ;) I won't name names

Sent by star fish

[PearlieMae]

News flash, this is how fashion and accessories design work. A designer comes up with an idea, presents it to the public in a fashion show, magazine, press release, etc., and everyone rips it off until you see it in the dollar store. Raven is the first person in the world to put a piece of fish net across the top of her head?

there is a fine line between inspiration and plagiarism. however, if Raven was so hot on protecting her designs, she needs put more of them out there in the market where people can buy them and say I have one of Raven's designs. Technically, no one has to ask her permission. It's just good manners.

Sure, she it's talented and creative and innovative, but as far as fashion & accessories design goes, there are no copyright laws.

So, don't use seashells or fishnet or plastic seaweed in your mermaid costume designs, because Raven invented it...FIRST.

Yeesh! :eye roll:

PS: I say "Raven" here as representative of the whole 'who's copying whom' context.

[AniaR]

Where's that damn anchor man gif when you need it lol

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

Pearlie and I rarely disagree but to each their own opinion. *throws a fish at pearlie for the sake of drama lulz*

Neither Iona or I would ever stoop so low in a disagreement with someone as to involve their husband with some farfetched lie BTW. Not that you accused us. But obviously it needs to be said. I don't care that much. I don't need to lie and bully to get someone to accept my opinion. People are gonna do whatever they want.

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[Winged Mermaid]

You said "Iona, I have busted my ass to set my headdresses apart from hers and to accuse mine of being identical to hers is down right insulting." You literally directed that sentence at me. Also "So- how is you being allowed to make headdresses but everyone else can't not elitist?" is the same thing as saying that me doing so is elitist. How could that be taken any other way?

People are welcome to agree with you, disagree with me, whatever. I'm not saying that "I'm right and this is the only way, blah blah". There's no winning this conversion, there's just the opinion that people's original designs should be respected. (See my original post on the subject.)

Also why are you bringing up a personal issue in this thread? Unless it was a user from this site that was involved in this conversation I don't see the point of bringing it up.

[Morticia Mermaid]

I know :) want accusing either of you. But you both have some overly strong supporters that need to know the boundaries. And attacking someone in support of someone only shows bad on the person they are attempting to support

Sent by star fish

[Morticia Mermaid]

XD oh jeeze. Meant wasn't, not want

Sent by star fish

[AniaR]

I've never had a fan pull that to my knowledge ever. I would reprimand them for sure. I have people on this forum who have tried to defend me on fb etc and I've asked them not to do that lol ask frenchy.

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[AniaR]

Actually if you felt like posting a screenshot I'd be happy to personally address that and I'm sure Iona would too. That is seriously lame and that person should be ousted

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[Winged Mermaid]

What Raina said. Also saying that if someone agrees with me on something, so what they do reflects badly on me? How does that make sense? People are responsible for their own actions. Just sayin.

[Merman Arion]

I've never had a fan pull that to my knowledge ever. I would reprimand them for sure. I have people on this forum who have tried to defend me on fb etc and I've asked them not to do that lol ask frenchy.

She's right. Eric banned me from commenting on his page when I said that the mermaid starter kits was Raina's original idea. Oh well *shrug*




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[Morticia Mermaid]

Thanks, but only reason I mentioned it is so that they, the person, knows that doing stuff like that won't work :) besides, I'm sure the embarrassment they are feeling from the response they got from husband is punishment enough. He don't tolerate stuff like that, lol.

Sent by star fish

[Echidna]

well.
it might happen that someone who has never seen Raven's work makes a headdress, and comes up with something that resembles it because it has pearls, seastars and netting in it.

it's hardly copying then, because the person didn't even know similar designs exist.
and thus, that person invented the style again.
they were not the first to do so, but their idea was original.

now, you'll probably link me hundred pics of headdresses/tails/whatever that copied someone else's down to the last detail.
that happens too of course.

I just dislike people calling "dibs" on something.
Several mers, for example, used to make certain sounds during performances before we ever heard that Raven "invented" that and no one else should do it.

I don't like blatant copying any more than other artists, but we have to draw the line somewhere.
Someone comes up with something, and a while later, everyone's doing it.
it's nothing new and happens with anything in fashion, art, music, dance, and fads.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

I'm making a raven inspired headdress for myself. Im hoping i don't fall in copy category. I'm putting my own style on it. I'm mainly using her method of securing since I have such baby fine hair nothing seems to work. I've posted progresses pictures of it.. I'm sticking to my style of color matching with the blue and white.. I've gone searching for new materials and specific shells. I have my signature sand dollars also. I do NOT intend on making any to sell . Other single clips maybe but for now my belts and tips are enough for me. I can understand the copy/indoor argument. I'm very protective of my weighted belt designs. Thankfully.. no one had made any like it yet. I have all of you to thank for that when you also recommend me when some one is looking for one.

[Little_Orca]

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111113002830/uncyclopedia/images/d/d4/Abandonzethread.gif

[PearlieMae]

Sorry, I had a crap day, and replied before I hit the pool. While I was swimming, I remembered about LICENSING designs. You can do that. It bothered me during my whole swim. :shark:

Thanks for the fish, Raina! I love sushi! ;)

[AniaR]

poor fish.but still.. lol

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/das_mervin/6059542/447107/447107_original.gif

[MermaidRaven]

Hi,
Wow feels weird to be here but I hope everyone is well!:)
I just wanted to chime in here really quick. I feel bad that things escalated because of this subject and I really feel there have been a LOT of assumptions made. I try not to get involved because I am a VERY passionate person but also a very sensitive and introverted mermaid. I mainly try to just stay in my little mermaid cave and diligently work on my orders/designs (hi clients! love you ^_^) and not spend too much time on the big wide interwebs.

I just wanted to thank you Kate for always being so kind and trying to "stand up for me". As far as my Merbella headdress design goes what she said is true. She did come and ask me and that is what I told her, I feel like a lot of the comments directed towards her make it seam like shes making it up so I did want to varify that bit. I know no one directly acused her of making it up, Im just sayin' to be safe:)

My headdress designs are very dear to me. When I came onto the scene I created this style of headdress as the official branding of the "Merbella" mermaid. I looked around at all the performing mermaids I could find, and checked out all the mermaid accessories on the market to see what everyone was making and what everyone looked like and created this particular style to make myself and my company stand out. It is a staple of the Merbella look and the required costume of all my mermaid performers and is the best way to identify a "Merbella". I did make and sell them before tails. This is why they are so dear to me.
oh also, I do still make and sell them regularly but usually only as complete sets for clients who have me design their entire Mer look. I haven't had time to list any to Etsy, but I promise one day I will, as soon as I have the time because like Steph said I do have tubs and tubs of em' waitin:p

Okay, so let me quickly touch on some things said here....
Ps: sorry if this is all over the place I am always extremely scatter brained and I apologize for that!

I realize that the Merbella headdress has become a very popular mermaid accessory and I do realize that lots of people now make and sell them. Does it bum me out a little? Sure. Totally. I work very hard on this particular product and it is my pride and joy and my MAIN branding for myself and my company, which I guess might be considered one of the larger mermaid companies (but really its just me and my husband Tyler. to be honest I feel like we are a "Mom & Pop" of the tail making world lol) So I do get sad when I see others selling something so important to my Merbella brand....BUT I am not going to "go after" anyone. I understand that people don't need to ask my permission and I have never said anyone had to. The only reason Kate knows my feelings on the subject is because well, she is the only one who has ASKED my feelings on it.
So there's the answer for all the "if she has a problem she can come to me about it, or if she has a problem why doesn't she say anything" stuff. To be a little blunt....I'm just not gonna do that (except I guess right now kind of :p)
Just because I say nothing doesn't mean I FEEL nothing. Like I said, Kate asked so I told her. I certainly don't want to go stompin' around to every single person who may or may not have "copied" a design. That does not work, trust me lol. I do pay attention and It does affect me I just have a different way of coping with it now I guess and its just to be quite and keep working (or talk to Steph who knows me better than my own mother sometimes haha love you Steph )

Again, NO ONE HAS TO COME ASK ME FOR ANYTHING....but man It sure is nice. It's a really great feeling to know I inspire people!:) SO NICE to knwo who and what I have inspired. kate asked me about the merbella headdress, other people about top designs, or show ideas etc. I ALWAYS have told them sure! I totally support the "do it your self'ers" I've even given people tips and tricks in the past to help them along. I really don't want people thinking I "demand" anything of anyone. I'm not even sure how that assumption was made even with what Kate said, but it is disturbing and I don't want anyone having that idea.
Another thing I want to clear up...NOTHING Iona has made to date have I felt was a "copy" of any of my designs. I know how much she respects my work and I am so proud of her and the beautiful things she makes and sells. Again, not sure how that came up but definitely not the case. I love her, I love her style and I hope she pumps out lots more:)
So I hope THAT is all cleared up.

I dont know how to "quote" but about this comment...
"News flash, this is how fashion and accessories design work. A designer comes up with an idea, presents it to the public in a fashion show, magazine, press release, etc., and everyone rips it off until you see it in the dollar store."

Guys, The market can acomidate everyone. Luckily its exploding! But it is still pretty small. Definietly not the insanley cutthrought fashion world. I agree, that statement is absolutely true, but do we want that for our little mer world? I hope not:(
I think things are small enough and this community is tight nit enough that we can TRY to be respectful of eachother. There is room for everyone. the only reason I dont encourage other people to sell a design of mine is because then they have to think of something else to design/market and then BAM theres new stuff for everyone to enjoy! Win Win if you ask me. I mean WOW check out all those amazing headdress's Steph posted!? there are not enough of those bad boys. I actually contacted a friend of Stephs TODAY about purchasing a mermaid headdress she made. It was beautiful and unique and I was so inspired by it! haha but anyways.....I know now it seams like a pretty standard thing, but once it wasn't. I totally understand with the RAPID industry inflation its very hard to keep track of where things came from and that's fine. It happens. I am not stepping in to argue with anyone or anything, I think what kate and Steph said here I agree with. Its just about respect. plain and simple:) People are going to do what they want no matter what I say (which is why is say nothing most of the time) but if you DO care about my feelings on the matter there they are. Sell what you want, make what you want I'm definetly not here to tell you what to do. I just wanted to clarify a few things and back up what was said by my lovely and amazing friends because I know I am kind of mystrious sometimes (sorry lol)

Might not make any sense, sorry its all over the place.....so goodnight I love you all! <3

***I very genuinly hope no more drama stems from this post because after I hit 'post quick reply' I am going back to work:p <3

[Mermaid Lorelei]

You're a doll Raven. <3

[Winged Mermaid]

My thoughts prescicely, Raven :) Thanks so much for chiming in <3

As for this bit-


News flash, this is how fashion and accessories design work. A designer comes up with an idea, presents it to the public in a fashion show, magazine, press release, etc., and everyone rips it off until you see it in the dollar store. .



Guys, The market can acomidate everyone. Luckily its exploding! But it is still pretty small. Definietly not the insanley cutthrought fashion world. I agree, that statement is absolutely true, but do we want that for our little mer world? I hope not:(

You know this part specifically I had the same thoughts while I was offline cooling off. Yeah, industries do that.. but they're also cut-throat, backstabbing, do ANYTHING including stepping all over people and even ruining other people's careers to get to the top... do we really want our community to be like that? Or do we want mutual respect? I certainly hope we go the better route. Just my thought on this whole debacle.

[Arella]

...I like clips personally : ) <3

[PearlieMae]

Wow! Raven DOES exist!

Thank you for your clarification! I do hope that, as a community, mers can rise above the cut throat world of fashion.

XO
:bed now:

[Little_Orca]

*Paws at Raven*

*Faints from touching a tail God.*

[Merman Arion]

Thank you very much, Raven, for your input :)


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[Aziara]

Other single clips maybe but for now my belts and tips are enough for me. I can understand the copy/indoor argument. I'm very protective of my weighted belt designs. Thankfully.. no one had made any like it yet. I have all of you to thank for that when you also recommend me when some one is looking for one.

Uh oh.... I'm currently making a weighted belt for myself using fishing weights glued down into deep scallop shells. I plan on tying them onto a fishnet sash. I don't want to stomp on anyone's turf.... :sad eyes: Is this going to be a problem?

[Mermaid Galene]

I'm quite new to the mermaiding world, but these are issues that all creative communities face. (It happened quite a bit in puppetry, where I spent 25 years of my professional life.) One of the attractions of the mer community for me is the generosity of information and encouragement here. Having tips and tutorials and models for costumes and all other aspects of mermaiding have saved me literally years of trial and error. I get the sense that everyone here wants to strike a balance between giving and taking, encouraging high quality costuming without hurting anyone who comes up with an innovative idea. The keys to this balance, I think, are 1) to have a clear message from creators: which parts of a design are their own, new ideas, and in what ways others should or shouldn't use those ideas. 2) If in doubt about whether your own design steps on someone's toes, ask them! 3) If someone in the community has strong feelings about something they've created, the rest of us should try to respect that person's wishes in the interest of keeping the supportive, nurturing spirit of mernetwork.

I'm so glad Raven spoke up because now we understand her feelings and point of view, and that is information that we can all use in making choices about our own creative endeavors.

Thanks to all of you for facing these difficult issues and trying to work through them, even if y'all hit some rocky shores along the way. I think the community is stronger for your efforts.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

If it is for yourself.. no. There is no problem. your design sounds different enough... there's a lot of research into bmi and other things I did before I started selling the belts I make.


If you decide to make them to sell please contact me first. I want to make sure you've thought of all the safety measures first.

[Aziara]

Yeah, it's just for me, and my style tends towards minimalist, so I think the only thing similar is that I used the same type of shell (I would have used something different, but nothing else was deep enough). If I ever do get the design fixed up good enough to sell, I'll definitely contact you first. I'd hate for someone to get hurt using something I made.

[Morticia Mermaid]

Hi,
Wow feels weird to be here but I hope everyone is well!:)
I just wanted to chime in here really quick. I feel bad that things escalated because of this subject and I really feel there have been a LOT of assumptions made. I try not to get involved because I am a VERY passionate person but also a very sensitive and introverted mermaid. I mainly try to just stay in my little mermaid cave and diligently work on my orders/designs (hi clients! love you ^_^) and not spend too much time on the big wide interwebs.

I just wanted to thank you Kate for always being so kind and trying to "stand up for me". As far as my Merbella headdress design goes what she said is true. She did come and ask me and that is what I told her, I feel like a lot of the comments directed towards her make it seam like shes making it up so I did want to varify that bit. I know no one directly acused her of making it up, Im just sayin' to be safe:)

My headdress designs are very dear to me. When I came onto the scene I created this style of headdress as the official branding of the "Merbella" mermaid. I looked around at all the performing mermaids I could find, and checked out all the mermaid accessories on the market to see what everyone was making and what everyone looked like and created this particular style to make myself and my company stand out. It is a staple of the Merbella look and the required costume of all my mermaid performers and is the best way to identify a "Merbella". I did make and sell them before tails. This is why they are so dear to me.
oh also, I do still make and sell them regularly but usually only as complete sets for clients who have me design their entire Mer look. I haven't had time to list any to Etsy, but I promise one day I will, as soon as I have the time because like Steph said I do have tubs and tubs of em' waitin:p

Okay, so let me quickly touch on some things said here....
Ps: sorry if this is all over the place I am always extremely scatter brained and I apologize for that!

I realize that the Merbella headdress has become a very popular mermaid accessory and I do realize that lots of people now make and sell them. Does it bum me out a little? Sure. Totally. I work very hard on this particular product and it is my pride and joy and my MAIN branding for myself and my company, which I guess might be considered one of the larger mermaid companies (but really its just me and my husband Tyler. to be honest I feel like we are a "Mom & Pop" of the tail making world lol) So I do get sad when I see others selling something so important to my Merbella brand....BUT I am not going to "go after" anyone. I understand that people don't need to ask my permission and I have never said anyone had to. The only reason Kate knows my feelings on the subject is because well, she is the only one who has ASKED my feelings on it.
So there's the answer for all the "if she has a problem she can come to me about it, or if she has a problem why doesn't she say anything" stuff. To be a little blunt....I'm just not gonna do that (except I guess right now kind of :p)
Just because I say nothing doesn't mean I FEEL nothing. Like I said, Kate asked so I told her. I certainly don't want to go stompin' around to every single person who may or may not have "copied" a design. That does not work, trust me lol. I do pay attention and It does affect me I just have a different way of coping with it now I guess and its just to be quite and keep working (or talk to Steph who knows me better than my own mother sometimes haha love you Steph )

Again, NO ONE HAS TO COME ASK ME FOR ANYTHING....but man It sure is nice. It's a really great feeling to know I inspire people!:) SO NICE to knwo who and what I have inspired. kate asked me about the merbella headdress, other people about top designs, or show ideas etc. I ALWAYS have told them sure! I totally support the "do it your self'ers" I've even given people tips and tricks in the past to help them along. I really don't want people thinking I "demand" anything of anyone. I'm not even sure how that assumption was made even with what Kate said, but it is disturbing and I don't want anyone having that idea.
Another thing I want to clear up...NOTHING Iona has made to date have I felt was a "copy" of any of my designs. I know how much she respects my work and I am so proud of her and the beautiful things she makes and sells. Again, not sure how that came up but definitely not the case. I love her, I love her style and I hope she pumps out lots more:)
So I hope THAT is all cleared up.

I dont know how to "quote" but about this comment...
"News flash, this is how fashion and accessories design work. A designer comes up with an idea, presents it to the public in a fashion show, magazine, press release, etc., and everyone rips it off until you see it in the dollar store."

Guys, The market can acomidate everyone. Luckily its exploding! But it is still pretty small. Definietly not the insanley cutthrought fashion world. I agree, that statement is absolutely true, but do we want that for our little mer world? I hope not:(
I think things are small enough and this community is tight nit enough that we can TRY to be respectful of eachother. There is room for everyone. the only reason I dont encourage other people to sell a design of mine is because then they have to think of something else to design/market and then BAM theres new stuff for everyone to enjoy! Win Win if you ask me. I mean WOW check out all those amazing headdress's Steph posted!? there are not enough of those bad boys. I actually contacted a friend of Stephs TODAY about purchasing a mermaid headdress she made. It was beautiful and unique and I was so inspired by it! haha but anyways.....I know now it seams like a pretty standard thing, but once it wasn't. I totally understand with the RAPID industry inflation its very hard to keep track of where things came from and that's fine. It happens. I am not stepping in to argue with anyone or anything, I think what kate and Steph said here I agree with. Its just about respect. plain and simple:) People are going to do what they want no matter what I say (which is why is say nothing most of the time) but if you DO care about my feelings on the matter there they are. Sell what you want, make what you want I'm definetly not here to tell you what to do. I just wanted to clarify a few things and back up what was said by my lovely and amazing friends because I know I am kind of mystrious sometimes (sorry lol)

Might not make any sense, sorry its all over the place.....so goodnight I love you all! <3

***I very genuinly hope no more drama stems from this post because after I hit 'post quick reply' I am going back to work:p <3


Thank you Raven for taking the time to clear this up. I can only imagine how busy you are with tail orders. This is just one of those things where direct from the source is preferred, instead of a messenger.

I can understand how you must feel about feeling like people are copying your design. I've been doing fashion design since I was 16, and I can attest to how cut throat people in that industry can be. I used to have a design page on fb but I had to take it down because designers were taking my design sketches and saying they were their own, then making them before I even had a chance to.

My main issue is that people are being asked to not use fish netting in a mermaid product (which is what everyone who agreed with me is upset about). I mean, that would be like telling certain reptiles they can't have feathers cause it's the bird's thing (and yes, some reptiles really do have feathers. Just saying cause some people will disagree with that), or that ravers can't use glow sticks. So perhaps instead of saying people can't use fish netting on a headdress, maybe try to direct them down a way that will make theirs far different than your own.

I know since this has happened, I've had inspiration for 3 (yes, 3!) new styles of headdresses. One of which I am currently working on (waiting for glue to dry while I type this out). Yes, it does have fish netting. But, I think even you, Raven, will agree that it is FAR different than yours. Once I get it finished I will be starting a thread to get opinions and would like to send you the link to get your take on it :)

[MerEmma]

I thought Raven only meant to please not to use fish netting across the top of the head to connect the two clip/decorative pieces--not to use it not at all in headdresses? I may have misunderstood, but that's how I took it as.

[AniaR]

Nobody asked anyone anywhere to stop using fishnet. In fact it has been said several times that wasn't the case. The fishnet was given as an example of one of the unique markers of ravens head dresses. Seriously, it is getting to the ridiculous point. No one said no more fishnet being used. Well you did lol.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

I love how this has now evolved into drama off site. Omg raven Iona and raina say we can't use fishnet!!!!1111

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[Morticia Mermaid]

Actually Iona said that people should just steer clear if using fish netting in headdresses. Or did I read that wrong?

Sent by star fish

[Mermaid Wesley]

I didn't wanna get involved and I haven't even read all of these posts but I'm gonna say some stuff: a headband is not the same thing as two connected clips. Two connected clips is certainly a unique thing that I had never seen before merbella. Netting is a staple of many mermaid accessories and I think it would be straight up ridiculous to say NO YOU CANT USE NETTING ON YOUR HEAD. Nobody would say that. Sometimes we copy people on accident. It happens. It doesn't make anyone =BAD= or =MEAN= or anything. It happens. Like if I saw a painting of cat mermaids on tumblr (I did it's so cute) and then a while later I was like I wanna draw! And I drew a cat mermaid, I didn't maliciously copy that artist but I was probably influenced without even realizing it. It's all shades of grey and we should all just do our best to respect each other and give credit when it is due. Okay *sinks into the depths*


Sent from my shellphone using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

What Iona said in full context


I'd advise people to just steer completely clear of using netting on/for the headband

^ her suggestion, to avoid copying one of Raven's markers and show her respect. Which is what the comments were about from the very start. Not her making up a random rule that no one else can use netting otherwise they're then copying Raven.

Iona's opinion, not the Morticia can't use netting rule.

Then, when you replied with

I'm sorry but, I'm REALLY having a hard time believing that Raven would demand people not use fish netting :/

Which is a reasonable reply, considering Raven came in and agreed she'd never say that.

So Iona, clarified with

I'm just saying, using for the specific purpose of connecting one clip/one side of the head dress to the other- that is the ONE thing that makes the head dresses very distinctly hers, and she was the first one to do it. That is her original design, her idea. She might not be okay with using any of the design that she made in terms of the mermaid head dress, but I think that's unreasonable, as if you look at any other head dress and translate it over it can end up looking similar to her design. So I nailed down that one aspect

And she also added

I'm not going to tell you what you can and can't do, neither is Raven.

I added,

I use netting on headbands and make crowns. I don't think it is using betting so much as it is two clips by the ears held by netting in the center and then all the details done to resemble copies of hers. If someone has to ask did raven make that then kudos to someone for being so accurate but try and branch out.

Iona clarified, again

I never accused your headdresses being identical to hers. I said you were using a key point that Raven used when she created those type of head dresses- the specific point that sets hers apart.

And to reiterate that she wasn't saying people had to follow her suggestion, she also said

People are welcome to agree with you, disagree with me, whatever. I'm not saying that "I'm right and this is the only way, blah blah". There's no winning this conversion, there's just the opinion that people's original designs should be respected.

Raven then enters, and validates the conversation by adding:

BUT I am not going to "go after" anyone. I understand that people don't need to ask my permission and I have never said anyone had to.


I certainly don't want to go stompin' around to every single person who may or may not have "copied" a design. That does not work, trust me lol.


I really don't want people thinking I "demand" anything of anyone. I'm not even sure how that assumption was made even with what Kate said, but it is disturbing and I don't want anyone having that idea.


I am not stepping in to argue with anyone or anything, I think what kate and Steph said here I agree with. Its just about respect. plain and simple


In summary: Yes. you misunderstood. No one told you you can't use netting. Iona made the suggestion that to avoid looking like you're copying that that particular aspect of Raven's design was something you could steer clear of (and I'm sure she meant "you" to anyone reading, not you specifically.) Then, Iona, Myself, and Raven, all reiterated, several times, that this was NOT about the netting, but rather people full out copying Raven's design and not showing her respect, that the netting was an example of one of her once unique in the community markers.


I think 90% of the drama on mernetwork, is someone not understand an OP's post, and then arguing back and forth with them and not accepting it when the OP says "This is what I mean________"

I'm not sure really what else you need? This has been a debate about copying. I mean, you aren't the only one to disagree with us? ANd it's been said so many times now that this wasn't about netting, I don't get why you need to stick that as your main issue here. BUT SINCE IT IS LET ME SAY WITH UTMOST OF ENDINGS: THE ISSUE HERE IS NOT PEOPLE USING NETTING. It was an *example* and Iona made a *suggestion*

[Morticia Mermaid]

Well ok then. THANKS for clarifying that for me :thumbs up:

I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing, and hope that it's OK that I am putting netting over the headband as it's a major piece in how I attack the clusters to the band. If not, I'll just figure something else out.

Also looking forward to everyone's opinions on the new style I'm currently working on. I'll be posting a thread once it's finished.

Side note- Here is how I am currently handling my bands, figured a picture would help better understanding :mermaid kiss:

[NerineArcticMermaid]

Sounds like a good plan :)

[Mermaid Isabel(:]

In my opinion that doesn't really look like Ravens. I understand her signature is having a clip on either side but she doesn't have greenery all the way across the netting. At least not that I have seen (please correct me If I'm wrong)

[AniaR]

Looks great, I do a similar thing with my headbands too. Mad props to anyone with the patience to sit and sew beads and shells on. I'm glue all the way for that lol

[Morticia Mermaid]

Thanks. the greenery is all glued, but each bead and pearl is individually sewn on. You can kinda see the thread in the picture, found an invisible nylon thread and that's what I've been using

[AniaR]

yeah it makes perfect sense. We tried to do that with our shell bra but my hands were too bad for it. So I came home one day to find Sean sitting and sewing pearls on a bra hahahaha

[Morticia Mermaid]

Lol. I just imagined my hubby doing that. I know my hands are going to hurt by the end of the day. I'm sewing all the greenery onto the new style I'm working on

[Coradion]

well, horror.
All the posters before Iona and Raina are completely clueless.

Why don't these kids just sew a tail if they want one so badly?...


Good thing you're so open to the opinions and views of others. You really benefit community and discussions that way.

[Echidna]

Good thing you're so open to the opinions and views of others. You really benefit community and discussions that way.

...because being open-minded suddenly makes tin cure silicone safe to use as tail, right?

troll harder.

[AniaR]

No don't judge and hate but that's what every post is. And ahh I was bullied so now be one... Right?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Coradion]

...because being open-minded suddenly makes tin cure silicone safe to use as tail, right?

troll harder.

Yeah, it actually does. Here's the MSDS sheet on smooth-ons tin cure silicone.

http://www.smooth-on.com/msds/files/OOMOO_Series.pdf

[Coradion]

It's silly how up in arms people get about chemicals without ever reading the MSDS sheet for it. If you do your research and investigate facts not here-say you can really do some cool stuff. Like Mermaid Citrine's latex tails are awesome. She doesn't use ALEX plus she uses actual latex which is big in special effects costuming. If she had avoided latex just based on what people said about ALEX plus she wouldn't have her awesome blue tail which is really durable. You can claw it and try and rip it and it won't mark the tail at all.

[AniaR]

Nobody claims that about regular latex and we did clearly investigate... There's a whole thread on it

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Kishiko]

Yeah, it actually does. Here's the MSDS sheet on smooth-ons tin cure silicone.

http://www.smooth-on.com/msds/files/OOMOO_Series.pdf

actually no it's not. And also no one said anything about real latex. She said tin cure aka caulk basically. Which while it may not be chemically very dangerous, it is dangerous to use in water repeatedly because it will degrade and cause problems.

[AniaR]

I asked smooth on about it before and in one of my vlogs you can hear me say certain Caulkings are made for attaching silicone and can be used in small portions but are not intended for use to make a whole prosthetic. Dragonskin is recommended for safety and durability. I can email them for the same quote

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Kishiko]

I know mermaid shelly also uses GE 100% silicone, but she uses it coat her neoprene tails with clear scales, not an entire tail

[Coradion]

actually no it's not. And also no one said anything about real latex. She said tin cure aka caulk basically. Which while it may not be chemically very dangerous, it is dangerous to use in water repeatedly because it will degrade and cause problems.


What I posted about is tin cure silicone. I used latex as an example of a material that people post about with negative connotations but if used correctly is actually quite good. (Nobody said anything about Silicone either until Caltuna decided to bring it up out of the blue.)

To say it is dangerous and will cause problems, is really vague. Do you mean cause problems for marine life?Tin and Silicone are essential to some marine organisms with Silica based creatures actually using it to make their shells.

If you read the MSDS sheet you would see the Tin cure silicone I posted about is not dangerous to humans unless you eat it, leave it on your skin wet, or inhale it too long.

You can imagine and invent whatever ideas you want about materials, but if you check the Materials Safety Data Sheet you can read the facts. If you think someone does something wrong with a product that's a problem with the person using it not the material and is a very important distinction.

[MermaidMichelle]

It is true that one must do one's research, and I applaud you for it, but I dare say there is a reasonable possibility that Tin cure silicone might indeed be left on human skin wet if it is the primary component of a swimmable mermaid tail.

In other response, Mermaid Raven actually does sound a bit like a Sorceress' name....Azoreth metrion xinthos....​ ;) :mermaid kiss:

[Echidna]

(Nobody said anything about Silicone either until Caltuna decided to bring it up out of the blue.)

actually, you brought it up by quoting my comment regarding the girl that wants to sell caulking tails on youtube, where I said that all posters on there minus Raina and Iona were obviously oblivious of the fact it was tin cure silicone and not dragonskin.

which might have escaped your notice, because you're only here to nitpick and troll.
like, linking MSD sheets and saying it's fine, then in the next going "well if it's left wet on the skin it's bad, but hey that's the fault of the user then".
mermaid tails usually are used in water and newsflash, water is wet.

if all pro tailmakers use dragonskin silicone although there is a much cheaper alternative, you can be sure they have a pretty good reason.

anyway, I'll just ignore you from now on, because your trolling is mediocre and not worth reading.

[Echidna]

I'll have to take a page from your book, since he keeps reporting all my comments as harassment though apparently anyone else calling him out isnt?

if it's found to not be harassment by the admins and someone keeps reporting, a warning/ban would be appropriate imo.
especially as nearly every single post I've ever read from him was clearly only meant to stir up drama, which is why I'm now putting the ignore on.
I've never done so before on any platform, because I'd rather see what people post and then call them out on it, but in this case, it's just not worth my time. :)

And yep, I've already been called sheep of Raina/Raven/tailmakers/this and that already,
which is funny because of all the times I disagree with you, them, and others.

besides, I don't care what trolls and drama-makers call me lol.

[MermaidMichelle]

So you're a shepherd, Raina? No wonder we get along so well! (It will make sense when one reads the last chapter in Why God Doesn't Hate You....Or alternately, one could call me a sheep because I was born in the Chinese Year of the Sheep!) :mermaid kiss:

[Echidna]

^^sheep aren't meek followers, but very nice, sweet, and helpful characters.
people born in sheep years often do social and charitable work, and are pleasant to be around
(which you probably know already).

so yea, I'm definitely not a sheep :(
born in the snake year...haha.

[Coradion]

Wet on skin as in pre-cure.

[Mermaid Cascada]

Wow... this escalated quickly. I'm not choosing sides or whatever but here's my two cents (is that how the expression goes? Lol I don't really know..). I don't really think he's trolling. He just has a difference of opinion and feels strongly about it, just like everyone else. I can see how he could feel harassed because if I was in his place, I would too. I'm not saying anyone is "ganging up", but there are much more people defending the other side of the argument and it may not seem fair. Not only that, but this has kind of spilled over into another thread he commented on and I don't think that it was his intention. And not everyone has to agree with someone else's opinion; however, if your going to disagree please do in a civil manner. The things that have been said, well typed I guess, could have been worded differently or maybe even not said at all just to avoid this. There's no need for name calling and whatnot. I think both sides of the conversation are correct to some degree. It doesn't have to be to one extreme or another. I think it's okay for children to fantasize and use their imagination; however, when these mermaid spells start suggesting drowning yourself; or other suicidal scenarios that's when someone should do something (or I hope someone would, such as the parents). More parents need to supervise their children when they're online. I mean seriously it's the internet.... Some people just don't care I guess...

The mermaid spell spoof is an awesome idea! But I have the feeling some kids wouldn't be able to see it as a spoof and they'd expect it to work just the same as the other crazy spells lol.

P.s .I just realized I was typing with my thumb, so hopefully there aren't any typos lol. I hope this comment doesn't offend anymer lol because I thought it through just about a billion times to try and make sure it didn't. :p

[Echidna]

I can see how he could feel harassed because if I was in his place, I would too. I'm not saying anyone is "ganging up", but there are much more people defending the other side of the argument and it may not seem fair.


I appreciate your effort to de-escalate here a bit Cascada, but this is a point that's problematic.
People have voiced their (differing) opinions.
Just because one opinion was more prevalent than the other, doesn't mean someone was harassed/bullied/ganged up on, or whatever.
And it gets really old that it's always the same people making snide comments that seem to be fishing for drama, who then get all upset if it backfires, and report everyone involved.

It creates unnecessary work for the admins as well who then have to wade through all the threads and see whether the reports are viable.

See, I've been strongly disagreed with as well, and been given harsh words that could easily be perceived as attacks.
I don't run around and report posts I don't like though.

I've not been that long on MN, but I'm already pretty tired of the "I can post what and how I like, but if anyone argues with me, I'm harassed and ganged up on"-attitude.

I can only imagine how tired of that some of the senior members must be. :p

That's also the last I'm going to say here on this matter.
(and no, I wasn't offended by your post.)

[AniaR]

Lol Catluna and I are perfect examples too. We disagree all the time but I'd never say she was a bully. And we have reaaaallllly disagreed lol

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Echidna]

yup.
and I could have gone on about this with quoting you from a different thread where you had done exactly what you chided me for, but I was too lazy to dig out said thread.

besides, it would have been petty and childish lol.
"no u"

[Merley]

I really don't understand why so many users on here have such a hard time communicating with Coradion...As someone who has met him personally, he's a real sweetheart and very knowledgeable about aquatic life/environments and science in general since he's a marine bio major who has also worked at our local aquarium. I haven't taken any of the things he's posted as a jab at anyone. Typically his posts consist of pragmatic advice or factual information, although some of this information may be available in other threads around MN, not everyone may have had the chance to see them yet (new users and so on). It just seems like every attempt he makes to clarify what he meant just drags him further into this hole. I don't think he's a troll for pointing out factual information and I also don't think he's a bully for having a different perspective. It's irritating to see one of my friends constantly getting shit on for having a voice. :/

[Mermaid Harmony]

Wow, this got crazy fast. I'm with Waikiki Mermaid here, I know Coradion, and he's fantastic, yes has solid opinions, but he hasn't been trolling here at all. If anything he's stayed rather factual most of the time. Caltuna, you called him a troll, that's a little insensitive, as we're a bunch of mermaids, and although some spells are not good for safety reasons (ie. Let's not drown ourselves) we've all expressed our creativity in fun and unique ways. I follow Raina's stuff all of the time, and love her, and also think Coradion is smart and fantastic. No need to be blocking him for sharing information. I'm just confused at how this spiraled. Good night everyone, everyone should take a bath, drink some salt water, swim or hop in their tail, and then come back and post a funny youtube video to get back to the point of this thread.

[malinghi]

Official Warning: I'd like to remind everyone that harassment, provocation and disrespectful language are against the rules.
While no one is in trouble right now, from here on anyone who makes a post that I determine to be harassment, provocation, or disrespectful language will be banned for one day. If you're not sure if something you'd like to post might break the rule, play it safe and don't post it.

I would also like to clarify that some of you may not be aware of how serious an accusation it is to call someone a troll. Like accusations of other serious rule violations, wrongly accusing someone can result in disciplinary action. If you believe someone is a troll please notify an admin so we can look into it and ban the troll if necessary.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I haven't said this in a while, and I've fully read everything here, so I'm just going to break this oldie but a goodie out:

Kumbaya my lord! KUMBAYA!

[SeaGlass Siren]

OK. I NEED TO GET THIS OUT OF MY SYSTEM. I put the rant in here because i sensed that the 5th point that i made is extremely racist so i made the decision to put it here instead of the bitch it out thread.

to the guy in my office who just told a pregnant lady to basically be his bitch and make him his coffee. You sir, are the bane of humanity. You make our company look like the armpit of all businesses. How dare you think that women are nothing more than your slaves and that our only real place is to make you coffee, you sexist and self-righteous warthog.
1) We are NOT your slaves or servants. GET THAT DRILLED INTO YOUR TINY HEAD.
2) She is not your wife. She is a married women, yes, but to tell someone's wife to make YOU coffee when you are perfectly capable of making it yourself is absolutely DISRESPECTFUL. I'M SURE HER HUSBAND WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE YOUR OWN COFFEE AND TOLD HIS WIFE TO GET IT FOR YOU.
3) She is not your fucking mother. AGAIN I reiterate: Get it yourself, you lazy ass-wipe.
4) It's not the fucking middle east. Stop treating the women around you like we are fucking degenerates. I can install hardware perfectly fine and set up a computer on my own, thank you very much.
5) [Disclaimer: The following comment is highly racist, I'm aware that not all middle eastern people are like this specific individual, but I simply cannot stand the level of idiocy I have to deal with in a place that's supposed to treat everyone with respect, dignity and with as much rights as any other human being. What goes around comes around, i say. I am not going to respect this individual because he refuses to give any. Respect is earned, not demanded or served on a silver platter.] Either accept the fact that women here in Canada have equal rights as men, or you get out of our country and go back to where you came from.
6) she's fucking pregnant. WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?

[AnnaAbyss]

:rotfl: :lol ^:

That....Was brilliant!!!
~Standing ovation~

[Merman Dan]

I hope her water breaks... in his coffee

[SeaGlass Siren]

Mmmmm placenta.

[PearlieMae]

Mmmmm placenta.

Deep fried!

[SeaGlass Siren]

I just gagged a little lol

[ShyMer]

... I once found a cookbook on Amazon for placenta recipes...

The comments were the best part of course.

Sent from my Huawei-H867G using Tapatalk

[Theta]

Um, I totally get where you're coming from but let me play devil's advocate here for a second:

a) is getting coffee her job? Because I work for an international private equity firm, and I'm not a maid/cook/service person, but it's in my job description to make coffee if people ask me to do it. Not because I'm a woman, but because it's part of the gig.

b) why would pregnancy get her a pass on something light like making coffee? If she's that high risk, she probably shouldn't be working, she should be on bed rest.

[Theta]

I guess what I'm trying to say is you might need some more context. For cynics like me, anyway.

Not trying to fight though! <---- for real!

[MerEmma]

I feel like there's probably a lot more to that story than we've heard, because based on what we're told (there's no direct quote obvs but with "to basically be his bitch and make him his coffee." makes it sound like he was very derogatory/sexist with his instruction?) I believe it was probably out of line. Personally, if she was getting up or something & heading that way and he politely asked I wouldn't see a problem with it. But if he told her "be my bitch and make me some coffee" then yeah, there's definitely a problem there and he should be reported to HR.

I definitely agree with your second point, unless the coffee machine wasn't mentioned to be like 2 flights of stairs up or something lol. If the context is okay (you're polite, on good terms with such person, they're ALREADY UP and going that way, the like) I don't see a problem with asking a co-worker to get you coffee. They don't have to agree to such questions, if it's polite, no problem with asking. But the story doesn't have enough context to really justify either side.

My $0.02. :P

[SeaGlass Siren]

No worries nirix and meremma, i'll provide some more clarification:

1) it's not part of her job, she's an accountant.
2) for this part, she was also told to carry a box of coffee cups in for a potential client.. you don't tell a 3 month pregnant lady to carry a box of anything. it's common sense. if she drops it she can't pick it up. luckily she skipped this part and didnt do it, but dude. it pissed me off :|


emma, she was not headed in ANY direction. she was sitting. all that was said to her was "hey, make me and these two clients coffee." no "please" or "thankyou", or "hey i know it's not your job but i need a little assistance."

There was another incident where i needed a username to log into a new account and he assumed i was technologically impaired because i couldn't log in. (using microsoft lync here, when you first set up an account they don't give you a pass word until a technician gives it). so i was waiting on that and he assumed i can't work a computer when, hey i've been working here longer than him for oh i dunno about a year? and then he made this derogatory comment like 'women always need help with technology" :\
as part of a family with no brothers, i find that insulting. i took on a lot of "male" tasks (males in quotation because jobs are not supposed to be gender specific) because my father is getting to that old age where he just can't do it alone, so i help out.

in any case, he has been reported to HR.

[AniaR]

3 months pregnant doesnt usually even show though. It's a common rule of thumb to not tell people you're pregnant until you surpass 3 months. (not to defend his awful behaviour). There's no problem for a 3 month pregnant lady to carry coffee honestly. I've worked in fields where women have to lift kids, move furniture, all kinds of stuff pregnant. You certainly can't do it once you get to a certain point, but unless a person is high risk they should have no problem lifting things at 3 months.

[SeaGlass Siren]

i guess she really wanted a baby. but i'm not her so... :| i just have a problem with his attitude towards women.

[AniaR]

yeahhe sounds like a dick generally lol

[SeaGlass Siren]

RIGHT? ;__;

[Theta]

Yeah, I'm totally not saying he's not a dick, because he sounds like one! But not asking someone who's pregnant to do anything is kind of crazy. I'm sorry, that just hits a nerve with me as a childfree person. If you're pregnant and need bed rest? Awesome, take time off! Cool! Do what you have to do. But if you are going to be working, I'm sorry, you're going to have to work within reason, and carrying coffee is totally reasonable. I've worked with women who go until they literally pop, and still do some heavier lifting. While I was working retail I've asked pregnant women to do things (lift a light box, stock shelves, whatever) within reason. If she was being asked to carry 50 lbs of bricks, that'd be different. But pregnant people are people, not made of glass :/ (*climbs down off the childfree soapbox)

(Also, he totally sounds like a dick, I'm sorry you have to work with someone like that)

[SeaGlass Siren]

I'm childfree as well but i don't totally agree with what you just said.
it's not her job to carry coffee. her job is to do accounting. he sits right across the room from the coffee machine while she's in a different room. there are other coworkers that sit next to the machine as well that he could've easily asked.
i firmly believe pregnant woman shouldnt be doing any lifting of any sort :\ for personal reasons. when i was younger my mother miscarried because she was lifting a load of laundry. she lost a baby because she was carrying freaking laundry. it was the most traumatic thing for me. losing a life because of something stupid :| i don't ever want to see that happening.

[Theta]

I'm very sorry that happened to your family. My mom lost three babies between my sister and I; I can sympathize.

I'm not speaking so much about the job thing (if that's not her job, that's not her job). Just that if a pregnancy is that high risk, a woman shouldn't be working, period.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Well. there's desk work and then physical labour. I'm sure a pregnant woman can sit and calculate and fill excel sheets and billing. Thats definitely not high risk.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Anyway back on the sexist topic, rage. :| how do people like that still exist

[MermaidMichelle]

For an effective answer, ask the maid who lived 30 years in the guise of a male.

Humans are social creatures, and that is from whence comes sexism. Misogyny was not part of the original biological makeup; with all the complexities and difficulties involved with humanity's impressive brain, we formed social units including men who helped and did all sorts of things which would have heavily taxed the often pregnant/nursing women, whose reproductive role was so vital to survival that it could not be effectively disparaged. This is why women feel the desire to be cherished/protected while men feel the desire to be useful/powerful (NOTE: These are large generalizations based upon statistical prevalence and personal observation....)

Humans are excellent at survival, however, and as a result we destroyed or subdued our environment's dangers and competitors to varying degrees, all the while building up a society which allowed classes which had overabundant power/wealth and who didn't need to perform the work of subsistence. Over the millennia came a huge number of variances and complexities regarding how humans viewed themselves and each other. Man's self-confidence improved with his conquest and achievement and at times even rotted into arrogance; women's appreciation of all that men did for them could then be seen as more of a master/slave relationship than a relationship of different equals.

So imagine a man who came from such a culture to one in which women perform traditionally-men's tasks, but the stay-at-home wife is still not idealized as a free equal. If the majority of men are like those with whom I grew up, then they have spent some time assuring themselves of masculine superiority and thus, to them, women's "imitation" of them is the sincerist form of flattery (even the more egalitarian ones tend to assume that women adopted "men's" roles because they were inherently superior). From that perspective, even the working woman is still an inferior, and their pregnancy is no excuse for them not to obey.

On the positive side, I did meet with some success in convincing those males with whom I grew up that not only is sexism wrong, but that being female is just as desirable as being male. The key is to remind them of specifically-feminine value and achievement; after all, women saved the world (by inventing the United Nations; the book I wrote (Why GOD Doesn't Hate You​) has the details).

[SeaGlass Siren]

... Well that definitely answered my question 0-0

[MermaidMichelle]

^ :mermaid kiss:

[empressmone]

Here is a suggestion take it or leave it. I'm just trying to help my fellow mers. Have you and raven thought about teaching a family member or close friend how to make the tails just like you . So when you two are sick they fill the orders. Make sure they sign a contract so no one tells your tail making secrets and etc. Just a suggestion. I get swamped with large orders and have the help of my best friend and husband. I Hope you both feel better soon.

[AniaR]

*facepalm* I know you mean well but the amount of times that's been addressed already I'm just not gonna bother. Also I'm not Raven or affiliated with her company I'm just one of her best friends, her first client, and also currently waiting for an order.

[empressmone]

Ooh ok I thought you and raven owned the buisness toogether. I honestly did not read the whole thread and I'm not going to either just heroes to give a good suggestion. Since you were one of her best friends Ive the suggestion of helping her. Oh well good luck with your endeavors.

[empressmone]

I can't stand it when you are helping distressed ,depressed etc people and they get a snippy fucking attitude. Just be miserable and suffer then. That will be the last time I give sound advice. Moving on with my great day.

[AniaR]

we dont live in the same country. lol

[empressmone]

You are also not the only person I am talking about either. Its also good to not be rude to peopl who arre not being rude with you . Concieted much ?!?!?

[empressmone]

I wouldn't know don't know either one of you.

[Merman Arion]

You are also not the only person I am talking about either. Its also good to not be rude to peopl who arre not being rude with you . Concieted much ?!?!?

*FACEPALM*


Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk

[AniaR]

Lol

[AniaR]

If I'm not the only person youre talking about you imply I am one of several. So my point remains ;) no hate dear just love. It is the internet and you don't need to take it so seriously. Just enjoy the forum and have fun

[Mermaid Isabel(:]

He was just trying to be friendly...

[empressmone]

Exactly mermaid isabel. I see people saying they didn't get their stuff and her saying her friend is sick. I didn't give bad advice. Yet this person has a bad attitude towards me . Guess what and I don't have to deal with it .so good luck with that nasty attitude . Lol @ your nonsense and will continue my wonderful day.

[empressmone]

Take your own advice ;)

[AniaR]

The bad attitude? You didn't like my reply so you called me names in the bitch thread :p I don't call that trying to be friendly... And you did say take it or leave it so I leave it ;)

And he is a she according to their profile and pics :p

[Mermaid Isabel(:]

I'm not trying to get into an argument with you my phone did a typo everyone has that issue including you sorry that I typed he on accident my bad ;)

[empressmone]

That's ok mermaid isabel its not that serious I know what you really meant :) Continue enjoying your day mermaid Isabel :)

[Mermaid Isabel(:]

Thank you! You too dear :)

[Ashley]

Not trying to put my two sense in or anything but shouldn't ya'll just drop it. You two are grown women and you keep going at it. I mean this is juicy and everything but hey, this site is for people to communicate (not argue) and enjoy something that we all have in common. Honestly, now I have read all of the argument and excuse my language but this has turned into a big pissing contest about who is right. In a way you both are right and this argument can continue on for ever. You two BOTH said mean things to each other, and that makes you both wrong too. Just be adults and apologize, because if ya'll happen to come across each other (which can happen this community isn't very big) it can be a bigger deal than what it is right now. Like I said I am not trying to put in my two sense but I did anyway because there are younger people on this site and they shouldn't see an argument between two people (we don't want to teach them that, that is ok).

~Ashley~

[Merman Arion]

I'm sorry, I don't recall having read Raina saying mean things. Just saying.


Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk

[shimmygoddess]

wow, that escalated quickly. :p

empressmone (http://mernetwork.com/index/member.php?4026-empressmone) this is a long ass thread so I understand why you wouldn't want to go through the whole thing. ( I dont blame you) Just want to add my two sense though, I don't think Raina was trying to be nasty or cause trouble, she was simply stating facts. Raven is a wonderful tailmaker, but extremely busy. She is an artist more than anything. She creates beauty with her tails and by training someone else to do it, kind of takes away for the whole 'art aspect'. While it frustrates some b/c they cannot get tails, ect, Most mers have come to realize this is just the way that Merbellas works. I consider myself an artist too, I make my own costumes, ect. I have had people ask me to make stuff for them, but simply I am too busy, and don't have time. I would never 'hire' someone to make stuff that I have created. LOL

I understand your point, but just know, Raina is a wonderful person, so before you make judgements, get to know a person first.

Hope everyone has a good day <3

[Fun123joker]

I'm sorry, I don't recall having read Raina saying mean things. Just saying.


Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk

actually now that you've said that i'd have to agree. or i see her more defensive then offensive. if you know what i mean
but this is the internet, so who knows. who knows if that one new mernetwork user is secretly an axe murderer who just likes sea people.
i dont know,i tend to stay out of the drama between users on this site. i dont want to do or say somthing wrong or pick sides
i hope that didnt come out bad

[shimmygoddess]

,i tend to stay out of the drama between users on this site. i dont want to do or say somthing wrong or pick sides
i hope that didnt come out bad

that did not come off as bad, and I totally agree with you. LOL. I am always shocked by how much drama is in this community. Seriously it is 100 times worse than our bellydance community.

[Raayvhen]

I hate to see the needless drama and never encourage it. That being said, i kind of love following others drama.

[empressmone]

Raina gave you the impression that she is a wonderful person. She did not give me that impression. As off this conversation I'll pass on getting to know her. Ty and enjoy your day as well. :)

[Seatan]

that did not come off as bad, and I totally agree with you. LOL. I am always shocked by how much drama is in this community. Seriously it is 100 times worse than our bellydance community.

Aw, I wouldn't say that's fair. While there is some drama, the mermaiding community is truly one of the less dramatic online communities. On other forums people are bickering and making passive aggressive comments and attacking people's posts daily while in the mermaiding community it is not the norm--most of the stuff that goes down in our community is kind and supportive, and most often when there is drama it comes from interactions with people who are new to the community and haven't really "felt it out" yet to understand what the different peroples' personalities are like. I have been a major part of many online fandoms and communities, and MerNetwork is the ONLY one I haven't given up due to the stress of how I was treated by others. I've left horse forums, writing forums, fanfic fandoms, snake forums, chicken forums, LARP and RP forums... the list goes on and on. Having the occassional spat between people is NORMAL human behavior. Bullying, trolling, and outright cruelty are virtually nonexistant in the mer community and that is why I love it--but you can't expect there to never EVER be any negative encounters when hundreds of people socialize with one another.

Translation: I LOVE ALL YOU GUYS!

[Echidna]

where is this drama that you speak of?

(I've been away for a week and couldn't find anything resembling dramaz)

[Merman Arion]

where is this drama that you speak of?

(I've been away for a week and couldn't find anything resembling dramaz)

This so-called "drama" is on the last page of the Merbella thread

[Raayvhen]

Merbellas thread and earlier on this page.

[Echidna]

thanks!
was an enlightening read :p

[MermaidMichelle]

Well, Raina also gave me the impression that she is a wonderful person, but right now she is also feeling a bit under the weather. Perhaps everyone could just wipe the slate clean regarding these mutual hurt feelings?

[Mermaid Wesley]

*eyeroll* i vote that we drop the whole deal. its not like continuing to talk about it is going to do any good.

[Seatan]

*eyeroll* i vote that we drop the whole deal. its not like continuing to talk about it is going to do any good.

^THIS Let's all :hug:and be MERry!

[Merman Arion]

Apparently, some drama occured on Facebook this week. I wasn't aware until Draggersprez refered about it while we were discussing about MermaidRUs's last child silicone tail.

topic here : http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?8815-Child-s-Silicone-Tail&p=141130#post141130

I will just post the pictures. Check the dates of both posts. You are all entitled to make your own opinion.

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Thoughts?

[AniaR]

I met Barb in January and she told me about this idea with Eric then.